reedF211's comments

A good programmer should wake up at 6 am in the morning get a solid 2.5hrs of coding done by 8:30 am, at 8:30 leave for work, work till 6 (it goes without saying that the lunchbreak must be spent trying to learn the Haskell or if you are feeling lazy answering questions on stackoverflow). Commute from 6 to 6:30 (it's a bonus if you listen to a technical podcast during this time and no stuff like TWIT does not count, perhaps audio lectures from the Advanced Algorithms course on MIT OCW). 6:30 to 7:00 time for supper and excellent time to catchup on r/programming and hackernews. 7-8:30pm is the time for relaxation by doing some recreational mathematics, doing problems from project Euler and that proof from The Art of Computer Programming excercises which you have been itching to get a go at! 8:30pm to 1 am code contribute to that open-source project, write patches for the Linux kernal and continue working on your startup.

Anyone who does less programming that what is mentioned above cannot call himself a "good programmer", I would have serious reservations in calling that person even a mediocre programmer.

Garbage Collection, Garbage Collection, Garbage Collection, where is garbage collection?

Most second-generation immigrants (and even the first generation ones who came to Canada as kids) identify themselves as Canadian. I do. "rejecting origins" part of moving on and settling into the society. I would not expect anything else, most of us have nothing in common with the country of our ethnic origin. "Where are you from?" is one of the most offensive questions and it is not white people who ask me that that question that often, it is almost always older first generation immigrants. Perhaps they don't realize how offensive it is.

Sticking to your ethnic origins decades after you have moved to a different country leads to tribalism and ethnic nationalism which are two of the most poisonous things to a country.

How do you find time to work on personal projects after all the school work and possibly part time job? I have so many things that I want do but there just isn't enough time after all the assignments and the job.

Oh noez... the bubble!!!!!!!

Reading this thread and the other salary thread I have noticed a disturbing trend among developers i.e the amount of greed. It seems that a lot of developers are motivated by finances rather than pure reasons of love of programming. msluyter's post exemplifies this perfectly. In what universe is 50-70k not mindblowing for a fresh grad? That is more money than enough money to live comfortably in most places in North-America. I'm not graduated yet but just last summer I worked for this company making 3k a month for the entire summer (36k for the year) and I had more money than I knew what to do with. Here's my expenditures:

After taxes and other deductions I took approx 2200/month. $475/ month for rent living with a roommate. $55 for internet. ~$50 for monthly bus pass. $150/month for food. $100-150 miscellaneous utilities. All in that's about $880 a month for essentials. That left me with $1320 a month spending money. I bought video games, went to movies etc and still had a lot of spare cash. This with co-op pay of 3k a month. I cannot see a reason how anyone can say that 50-70k is not enough, except greed run amok.

Here's the nationwide average http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Scien... .The average pay for a senior software engineer is 77-101k. Hardly the 80k norm for fresh grads that the OP is suggesting. It might be the case at Stanford(although I'd need to see statistics before I concede that) but the op's explanation for the trend mentioned in the article was a broad indictment non-cs majors rather than it being specific to the culture at stanford. Google Pays $8000 a month interns? They hire co-op students out of my school $14,000 for the entire 4 month term which comes out to about 3500 a month.

For anyone still saying "there is no bubble"...

$100K that's utter bs. Anecdotes mean squat. Most CS graduates start at around 45-50k. Suggesting that even a a sizeable minority makes 100k out of college is being ill-informed at best and dishonest at worst. If we are talking in terms of anecdotes, I know several history majors making good money working for the city whereas some new CS majors are still working at bestbuy.

I've heard from Indian students at my university that grade screening in ridiculous in India, is that true? When applying coop employment here in North America many of them are shocked that so many companies don't have a minimum gpa cutoff and even the companies that require a minimum GPA to consider you have a reasonably bar 3-3.3 at worst. I've heard stories about people needing to get straight As or some ridiculous benchmark like that in India. Sounds like a toxic environment for the student, no wonder there are so few startups coming out of there despite a booming IT industry. What college kid would spend their time on a side project when they are being held to such ridiculously high academic standard.

Algorithms would be interesting if we actually studied algorithms. Algorithms classes are nothing but thinly veiled math courses and an exercise in writing proofs. I have absolutely zero interest in mathematical aspects of CS and at this point in my education these courses which are being forced on me are just preventing me from taking the more interesting classes that I want to take like Compilers and Networks. There is nothing more annoying that being upper level student and being forced by university to take courses which you have zero interest in and as a result not getting a chance to be in interesting courses that you actually want to take.

I'm not trying to sound bitter but as I mentioned a vast majority of students barely tolerate these courses and only take it because they are being forced to and once they pass they don't think about such dry material and end up at the same level as "self taught programmers". In that sense I don't think self taught programmers are missing anything. If you are interested in this stuff than more power to you. It's just that from my experience I highly doubt that many self taught programmers would want to or enjoy learning these topics anyways.

As a current college student I can tell you that what you are saying is an exaggeration. A small subset of Linear Algebra is required for graphics . I took linear algebra in first year of college and forgot almost all of it by the time I took a second year graphics, needless to say I had no problem picking up the concepts in a weekend from scratch. The amount of LA required is a very very small subset compared to all the crap you do in a full blown LA course.

Most students in the CS program hate math and CS theory courses. Subjects like Algorithm Analysis, Discrete Math, Automata Theory which often get cited as examples of stuff that self-taught programmers might not know are boring and annoying. Almost every student in the department dreads these courses but has to hold his/her nose and take them to fulfill the degree requirement and most people promptly forget these courses after passing the exam unless they have real interest in the topic and are taking fourth year electives in the subject. To be honest I don't think the self-taught programmers are missing anything.

And congratulations for digging up a use case for Calculus in CS. I can site examples of CS fields where say Cognitive Psychology has huge influence. The fact still remains that it is completely irrelevant to most of CS unless you are interesting in that one obscure area (in which case more power to you).

The House example is horrible. In the show rarely does house diagnose an illness thorough intellectual debugging. In most episodes House sits around and insults his team while they run tests and about 5 minutes from the end he out of nowhere has an epiphany (while talking to Wilson most of the time) which often has little to do with what tests the team ran and he solves the case.

So when do they actually do CS?

This article is nothing other than language fanboyism and I am not sure what it's doing on the front page of HN.

Computer Engineering & software engineering degrees are a lot different than CS than just another year. CE degrees in Canada are pretty much a dressed up versions of Electrical Engineering degrees with a few programming courses thrown in they go pretty deep on the hardware side of things but the programming stuff is covered in somewhat handwavy way. Software engineering degrees on the other hand are something that I just don't get. They require you to take too many useless courses like Chemistry and business-esque courses. I think CS degree is the sweet spot for programmers, I had had enough of computer hardware after take taking computer organization courses, building circuits is not of any interest to me, something that CE majors spend a lot of their time on.

Have faith in Android tablets

Apple has gone too far trying to gouge developers and the backlash is well deserved. I was planning on buying an ipad but I decided to boycott all Apple products until they back off from this madness. I bet if 90s Microsoft could travel ahead in time and see apple's behavior recently, even they would blush with blatant anti-competitive moves, monopolistic practices and gouging of their users.

This is depressing. I know nothing beats the convenience of Amazon and Audible but browsing through a bookstore is an experience which just can't be replicated online... oh well.

Why should Firefox have to comply with a Microsoft specific API?