robconery's comments

Thanks Geoffrey! I'm hoping we can do something together soon - it's been a long time in coming :)

Yes all of our videos will be available in the next few months.

It's outstanding - wish I had Avdi's pipes!

I'm not stopping. One of the reasons I wanted to join forces was to unleash myself from running a business - I'm a much better producer :)

Let me guess... that designer was... you? :):):)

Congrats on the launch - will be neat to see what this turns into.

As an American it took... perhaps 5 minutes or so to scratch my head at the name :).

One of the things that I really wish we could discuss as "a collegial group of developers" is whether this is the "Best Effort" or not.

Honestly, as it stands, I don't know if I'd ever try and explain Ember to anyone aside from the basics which I've done.

The concepts are interesting - as you say - but in practice it just feels like a mediation on "what can we leverage with clever naming" that results in code that is ... less than clear in intent and purpose.

The API is the thing (to me) that brings it down. Nothing is discoverable and it's not easy to jump from one context to the next. In Angular, for instance, it's a pretty simple jump to understand that if you want an ability/function, you'll need to inject it.

This leads you to understand that "I need to do a JSON call... hmmm" and then boom: $http.

Ember isn't this way. It isn't until you grapple with models that you understand you'll be writing jQuery code to get remote data. In my mind this is a huge gap, given Backbone's ability to do it straight away, and Angular's injectable $resource stuff.

I like the ideas, but the API needs to be rebuilt.

I hadn't seen this. If you're implying that I took your coe without attribution, I can guarantee you that didn't happen. I've been scouring the web trying to find examples and the only one I did find was Tom Dale's. Which I morphed.

I like what you've done after having followed the link here, but it kind of wanders into discussions about IE and UTF8, and then actions and interactivity.

I was trying to show the core of what Ember is and does. Hopefully you can see that our goals were slightly different?

> I like to play devil's advocate every now and then to see how people react

Easily interpreted as trolling. I think you're doing yourself a disservice.

One person telling another to "shut it" is not censorship. Both have a right to speak their minds. Censorship is when you're told by someone with authority that what you're saying/writing/expressing should not be expressed for whatever set of reasons.

You telling someone to "just go away" is equal to this.

There's a standard in the US that your right to free speech shall be upheld but not in the case of hate speech or insighting unrest and violence (also known as trolling). This is for very good reason (ask Weev what he thinks) - which is that we need some form of law to protect us from one person riling up a mob to violence, or a single deranged person from stalking and harassing another.

Trolling a community to provoke thought and discourse is a time-honored profession that predates the internet by millennia (Jesus is often considered one of the best trolls in history).

Taking a contrary position "just because" or for sport is rude. But it's tolerated. How much of me would you like to tolerate in person? Here, online, I'm just a name in a message thread. In person it's a whole different deal. You have rights to protect you from my thoughts, and I have rights to express those thoughts.

Where the twain shall meet?

You have quite a way of expressing yourself. Hopefully at the next conference I can sit next to you and let you know just how much I enjoy your opinions. You can always leave if it bothers you.

Knows too much about what? The view lives to present the data to the user - that's all it should know. The fact that the controller is the data is a design problem.

Your assertion is that "Ember is not about desktop apps". Yes, it is entirely about Desktop apps in terms of structure and approach.

These apps are built on the web. One look at the Discourse Ember code and I think you'll understand perfectly the confusion I'm writing about.

But I'm curious: do you use Ember or are your responses "what you think"

Seems reasonable, but the Ember team sees it differently... they put state in the router:

>Most of your controllers will be very small. Unlike other frameworks, where the state of your application is spread amongst many controllers, in Ember.js, we encapsulate that state in the router. This allows your controllers to be lightweight and focused on one thing.

{{#each controller}} {{name}} {{/each}}

How is the controller not the data as far as the View is concerned?

This is fixed - thank you.

Interesting - didn't know this. $scope is injected by Angular and available to the view - is this the same thing? I didn't think Ember had a DI aspect to it.

The team has been rather clear that Ember is Desktop MVC, not web/server based: https://twitter.com/trek/status/309315009291378690

They say as much in their guides as well.

The controller is the data. The model is grafted onto it for convenience. This ties the view to the model to the controller which is sort of orthogonal to "separation of concerns". In my opinion at least.

The examples were to show how $scope is used in Angular vs direct use of the Controller/Model proxy in Ember. This makes a bit more sense to me, personally.

Absolutely true - I should add that in. I think people look at that, however, and don't like functionality etc. shoved into the DOM. But your point stands.