Honestly, I feel like I've outgrown the whole "dreaming up the next big thing." I know my dreams. I am already following them.
I feel like the younger folk tend to re-invent ideas that have come and gone, and don't do enough research to see what has come before. They spin their wheels figuring out things that us older folk already know. Sure, they do it with newer toolkits than I know, and that is why I keep up on HN - because the newer technologies are where the younger crowd can teach me something.
But I don't feel lost in the culture... I feel disinterested in it.
I also think that being older, with a family, and a full life outside of work, I'm not interested in pursuing wealth the same way that young people are. I have a nest egg, I have a good salary, I also have a wife, children, a small farm that we run, mountains, deserts and oceans to explore, stars to look at, etc.
I am no longer 23 and trying to establish my life. I am 43, have built a life that works for me, and am far more concerned with raising my children than with raising my wealth. To me wealth is binary - you have enough to live your life, or you do not. At the moment, I do.
So can I hack life to get more out of it? I think I already have.
> I also think that being older, with a family, and a full life outside of work, I'm not interested in pursuing wealth the same way that young people are. I have a nest egg, I have a good salary, I also have a wife, children, a small farm that we run, mountains, deserts and oceans to explore, stars to look at, etc.
As a young person (26), what looks like a pursuit for wealth from the outside is just me trying to get to this stability point so I can slow down. :) I don't even live in an area with absurd housing costs and I still feel like that's a distant dream if I keep on keeping on at my dayjob.
Reinventing the wheel? Sounds suspiciously like the process of learning! "Teaching is better than doing is better than being taught."
I agree people reinvent the wheel all the time, but instead of seeing it as something naive people do, I see it as fertile earth that genuinely new things can grow from.
I feel like "young developers reinvent what we already had 30 years ago" kind of ennui gets espoused here on HN a lot. To me, this is less wisdom gleaned from experience and more a preference based on shifting priorities. There's nothing wrong with not being interested in new shiny stuff, but there's also nothing wrong with being interested in it.
I'm 35 and overall am feeling at the top of my game. I don't envy the 20 years olds or feel lost. I've learned so much, not just technically but around user and enterprise needs, inter-personal skills, and about myself since I was 18-20 that I absolutely feel better suited for success.
I've started eating right and working out, which has helped both body and mind, and I've developed task and time management techniques that work for me. While I admit my mind might not be 100% as quick as it was when i was 20, I do feel remarkably more productive.
Although to be fair, I'm not in the SV ecosystem, and run my startup (although after 8 years maybe not a startup any longer?) from outside of Boston (a location where a strong business model still beats a profitless pitch deck), so perhaps the environment is one reason I feel the way I do.
> my mind might not be 100% as quick as it was when i was 20
care to elaborate? I'm 34 and I keep hearing that my mind is supposed to slow down but it hasn't yet. I drink 2 cups of coffee a day, don't smoke cigs, am not overweight, try to go for a walk for 30 minutes minimum each day, go to sleep by 9ish and am up by 3 or 4am.
I also watch very little TV, read regularly and push myself to learn new stuff on a near constant basis (python > node > c# > cg within the space of the last 4 years, along with pixel art, a bit of 3d art, loads of 3d programming + 2d game programming - all in addition to being a web dev contractor).
The change I've seen in my brain as I've gotten older is that I seem to be learning at an accelerated rate. However there are days when my depression or stress gets the best of me and I have to just take half a day or so to "detox" (binge watch netflix, play video games etc).
I wonder if some of the slow down people feel is artificially induced, or even misperceived (it takes me longer to reply to questions, but that's because I'm considering more answers or sifting through more knowledge that I have).
edit: Alzheimers / other brain related issues are absolutely terrifying to me so I'm interested in understanding what people mean by slowing down specifically... also there's a small part of me that worries I've slowed down and just haven't noticed it yet.
I totally agree that I feel smarter although you cannot tell from a closed loop system. Maybe I am slower but hell I do so many more things better because I know the deadly mistakes I should avoid now. I am also 35.
Amazing. For most of us, your career begins about 22 and ends about 72. So at 50 years, the midpoint would be 47. Yet most of the comments below start with, "I'm 35 and...".
Jeez. At 35 you're still just a kid.
I'm 57 and I've definitely seen brain changes. At 20 I could learn 80% of new stuff in one pass. That ended by 35, when I had to take and review notes to learn as well. Now at 57, I simply can't remember minutiae like I once could. Proper nouns are especially tough to recall (famous names especially). I don't retain entire 1000 LOC programs in my head any more.
Learning new computer languages still isn't too tough but breaking new ground in math is. My ability to see multiple perspectives of a new concept all at once is not what it once was. I have to work harder at concentrating and distractions are more disruptive. I really HATE working in an open space without earplugs.
So yes, the brain ages. At age 50 I'll be much more impressed when you claim, "Oh yeah, my brain hasen't lost a step since 20."
I would argue that the issue with math and perspectives isn't so much a decrease in your raw brainpower, more like your brain has become more "specialized" to the things you do very frequently. I'm sure there is a small decrease in raw processing speed, but I expect the largest change is the reduction in flexibility.
As for your reduction in memory/recall, one thing that can help is to learn more diverse information. The connectivity of a network is a function of the diversity of its inputs/outputs, and the more connected a network is, the shorter the average path to any given node (in this case a memory).
> I don't retain entire 1000 LOC programs in my head any more.
> Proper nouns are especially tough to recall (famous names especially).
Well, why should you retain entire 1000 LOC programs in your head? If it's not to make fast navigation through a code base possible at all, that's unimportant information. And is it important to recall these names? You should keep in mind that your brain gets better at prioritizing over the years. And prioritizing can be very effective - since I was 18 I've only memorized names of people I met more than two or even three times.
48, and can confirm what you are saying - learning new names is tough. Things that I could once learn through osmosis require much repetition to retain.
40 year olds today were the first generation to grow up with computers. 10 years ago, 40 year olds were "old" in computer parlance. The myth of the 20 year old hacker will go away over time, as more and more people grow up immersed in technology (and thus possess the necessary skillset).
I would even go so far as to say that our culture's preoccupation with youth presents an opportunity for disruptive ideas/startups, based in "wisdom and experience."
40 year olds are not the first generation. I'm 66, started writing FORTRAN on a CDC 3100 in 1965. 16K memory (that's 16,384), Punched cards, mag tape. Was a blast.
I can't write code nearly as fast as I used to. I am much better at writing less code, though. And though it took a while (too long), I've figured out that it's the code you don't write that makes you great. So I'm much more skilled and competent as a 40 yo than I was as a precocious 20 year old.
The biggest change has been values though. My values and my criteria for success are different now than they were when I founded my first business at 22. Now with a family, assets, residual income and a home, I'm far far more interested in being interested than I am in numerical 'success', and much more motivated by social justice. So I definitely don't have the hunger for startup life. I don't feel lost in that culture. I just feel that I've been there, got the t-shirt, and moved beyond, so I don't feel the need to go back for more than the odd visit.
So yeah, maybe I'm getting over the hill in some ways. But that's not a bad thing. I don't feel out-competed, I just feel like experience and perspective have made me change what I value, both in code and in business (and other bits of life: in relationships, in vacations, in hobbies, etc).
Organisation is a skill you learn through experience. No other way. You can attempt to teach a newcomer about the virtues of refactoring (basically tidying up the kitchen after you've baked your masterpiece) but I can assure you, the mind at early stages of doing new things is less interested in tidying up the process than it is about seeing the exciting outcome.
There's an (spanish) old saying that goes: The devil knows more because he's old than he does because he's the devil. (Or Más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.)
HTH.
Generally I wrinkle slightly more each year, moan about my joints seizing up and grow more cynical.
On a more serious note I am becoming better at what I do because I understand much more of pretty much everything in far greater depth than I used to. And while I perhaps don't have the stamina or raw LoC output ability of a 21 year old any more, I can usually achieve tasks much faster because I know what I'm doing and I make fewer mistakes.
I'm definitely much more cynical about flavour of the week languages and frameworks though. And I find it very funny that things get reinvented every few years as a new generation decides some thing is too cumbersome (often SQL or DMBSs) and needs to be thrown out, only to be slowly reinvented as all the edge cases that lead to the abstraction are discovered...
When I was young I told my friends that if they saw me in 20 years married and not playing music full time to go ahead and punch me in the face. I honestly thought that I would feel exactly the same at 40 that I did at 20.
At that age I probably would have looked at my older self and thought that I had lost my passion, had sold out, become uncool, etc. It didn't occur to me that I would still remember everything that I knew at 20, plus have another 20 years to figure out what actually is important to me and become twice as confident and comfortable with myself.
I felt way more "lost" when I was 20 than I did at 40. I don't think I've necessarily figured it all out. But, as much fun as I had when I was young, I like my life more now.
I am less driven by the prospect of becoming an old expensive programmer, and more concerned about missing out on gaining management experience. I have conversed with many programmers who express concern that they have no management aspirations, and yet the longer they remain pure programmers, they find they have fewer options as they age, instead, as one might imagine, more.
Maybe it's because it's harder to convince a 40-year old programmer to work bullshit hours for a few slices of free pizza.
As someone about to turn 40, it's creepy reading comment after comment here and seeing A LOT to agree with.
Less lines of code per hour than when I was young: CHECK
More productive than when I was young: CHECK
Not reinventing wheels anymore: CHECK
Recognizing all the wheels I reinvented when I was young thinking I was so clever: CHECK
Keeping up with new languages/tools/frameworks: CHECK
Skepticism at the people who think this new language/tool/framework is going to CHANGE EVERYTHING: CHECK
Paying more attention to my health: CHECK
Hobbies outside of work: CHECK
A couple of things I disagree with though.
Employment opportunity:
I definitely am starting to see evidence of ageism. Job hopping is more difficult, and the quality/appeal of available jobs is no longer what it used to be. It's much harder to get the attention of recruiters now than it was 15 years ago, and I feel I'm at a negotiating disadvantage vs. younger people who have no problem sleeping at their desks and subsisting on noodles and Mountain Dew alone. Quite honestly, 90% of job postings I read are utterly uninteresting to a 40 year old. Sometimes the company or product is boring, uncompelling, or something I've already worked on. Sometimes the culture reeks of bro-grammer. Or it's full of dog-whistle words that tell me I'll be working 80 hour weeks and not be compensated well for it.
Financial position:
Software engineering has not been very financially rewarding. I guess you can always find someone and say, boy they're doing much better than I. I seem to be permanently behind the people I knew who went into more lucrative careers. I feel like I'm much less well established at 40 than my parents (who made shit as school teachers) were when they were 40. The clock is ticking and I feel it's going to run out before I'm able to retire. Time feels like a predator, stalking me and waiting to devour me as punishment for not making/saving enough.
Though my financial position might be worse, due to ill-timed property purchases. Basically, the majority of my net worth was in real estate in 2007. I have had to move multiple times to find sufficiently remunerative work for a small family. So I'm just treading water now. I have been busting my ass for 16 years now, with literally nothing to show for it. Everything I have ever gained has been taken back, by circumstances beyond my control.
So when I see those Baby Boomers, retiring with nice, big nest eggs from working 40 years at the same company, I just start to seethe in rage. They are the ones who started pulling all the ladders up after climbing them.
I don't think it's just software. Everyone born after the Baby Boomers is worse off than their parents were at the same age. That generation just isn't giving the same as they got, because they are such a large economic force, they could get whatever they want. All I can say is that they had better fix up the nursing homes while they still have the power to do so. Gen X and Millennial won't have time to take care of them while still looking for new jobs every 2-5 years.
I'm right there with you on every point and I'm only 32.
Job hopping is more difficult, and the quality/appeal of available jobs is no longer what it used to be.
I've been thinking about this lately and I've come to the conclusion that most programming jobs aren't technically challenging to me at this point in my life. As I learn more and get older, I also look for greater challenges to overcome. The best paying jobs in the industry (and in the HN hiring thread) are all about making the same things I made in 2001, just with different technologies.
The above conclusions have forced me to start thinking about what's next. Is it really starting my own business? If I'm going to take the time to learn business development, marketing and sales, is programming really the most lucrative use of my time?
I'm 25 and feels lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming up the next big thing.
I don't think age is the important thing here, I have worked with people of all ages (15-70 or so) that I look up to and learned a lot from. Experience is important, and it is hard to have experienced a lot of things if you are 20.
On a semi-related note, all my best bosses have been parents, having kids seem to teach you something about the value of time.
>> On a semi-related note, all my best bosses have been parents, having kids seem to teach you something about the value of time.
I once talked to an old (60) guy who was writing code down the aisle from me. He said he tried management, but didn't want to mediate disputes between children - he had his own at home. I thought his experience was probably unusual, but I've asked a number of managers since then, and they all agree that's an unfortunately large part of the job. I don't see it because they keep it away from the team - as it should be. But then when I got my first crack at "having a small team" I saw exactly the same thing. So yes, tech skills are important but parenting can also be a relevant background ;-)
The same way you deal with getting older in any other profession, you learn to accept that there will always be people better, faster, and younger than you, embrace the fact that you suck, but still persevere in pushing forward at your own best pace. You strip away the pride (i.e. the feeling that you somehow deserve / need to win, to be the next big thing, to change the world, to be loved / respected by everyone, to do better than your old high school classmates, and to do it all in your teens and twenties) that covers the youthfully inexperienced. And you accept that the most you can do is put yourself on the path that you can enjoy and that you hope is right and commit to walking down it clad in nothing more than simple stupid faith that eventually you can get it to work.
Non-purple TL;DR: I deal with it by abandoning any sense of pride / shame I might've had.
Your comment seems to bridge two things: hacking life and staying relevant in technology. For the former, I'm 42 and doing just fine. I try to keep up with the latest trends though I don't buy into everything just to keep my sanity. I write as much code as I can. I've learned though that someone who listens with empathy and attempts to understand a business' problems will always be relevant.
For the former, I read a lot on diet, nutrition and exercise. I believe in 50 years, we will look back at the time when our diets were largely based on sugary carbohydrates and wonder what the hell we were thinking. I experiment with fasting. I do different kinds of exercises. We don't have total control over our health but so many of us make regular poor decisions that even tiny improvements have to help. Of course, I could walk out in front of a bus tomorrow but attempting to improve each day goes a long way.
From a health perspective, I subscribe to Nassim Taleb's idea of reduction instead of addition. High cholesterol? Don't start taking statins, start eliminating things like sugar and processed carbs and wheat. High blood pressure? Don't add blood pressure medicine, try exercising regularly, don't smoke, eat vegetables. Etc, etc.
Long story longer, if all you do technology and health wise is exactly what everyone else has always done or always told you to do, you'll get what everyone else has always gotten. True, experimenting and hacking may not help at all but there is plenty of evidence out there that walking a different path can get you different results.
Why do you have to be 20 to be doing something interesting? Also why is it assumed that every new innovation that some 20 year old ivy league drop comes up with is good for our society and our culture? To me most start ups are just superfluous, these apps and such are created just to make our lives slightly more convenient in most cases, they rarely improve the human condition or outlook. Go ahead and glorify the startup culture but I have more respect for the grizzled old devs that have created the foundation we stand on today and the people moving things forward incrementally.
SV has been funding the Mom 2.0 bubble where 20 yr olds provide Mom services to other wealthy urban 20 yr olds for a generally rather large fee. Look at startups that boil down to "Mom can you drive me to the mall" "Mom can you get me a sandwich" "Mom can you do the laundry" "Mom can you adjust the thermostat" "Mom can I crash in your livingroom overnight when I'm in town" "Mom can you mail me a monthly care package" etc. Not all startups in the current bubble are Mom 2.0 but enough are to make it a cultural thing.
Anyway the point of extreme youth focus in the Mom 2.0 bubble is it makes sense when you're 20 and urban and rich and have never lived away from home (aka mom 1.0), but once you're 40 and you have become the Mom (err, Dad, or whatever), then it's kind of a hard sell and you're just not going to fit in with the biz model.
There is also a mythology that kids will lock on to branding for their entire life, so the most popular group to sell to is kids. It doesn't work, of course, but its a very popular mythology and highly politically incorrect to question it. If it actually worked of course, I'd spend my lunch hour driving my Segway around to play Pog games in between gaming sessions on the Colecovision or something like that.
I'm 35 and I'm not at all complaining. Career wise, I've not only learned more technically but it seems like I'm learning better/faster these days than 10+ years ago. On a personal note, it's nice to know I'm established with a decent amount in my savings and retirement.
With friends, most of my friends are younger but it's nice to be able to partner with them and go through life shoulder to shoulder. It's nice to know that I have the means to be able to help people too, that alone gives me much satisfaction and contentment.
The nice thing is, 35 seems to be a starting point for me. I've got a long way to go and I'm re-evaluating my options. I used to think that getting older meant that I would regret not having accomplished the goals I had in my youth but now, I see it as refining my goals and I'm walking into things with far more experience and knowledge which means more than just "getting it done" but "getting it done, well."
To me, it seems lots of the "big ideas" dreamed up by the 20-year-olds seem to only cater to the 20-year-olds. I'm upper 30's, lots of kids, married a long time. Too much of the new stuff doesn't interest me. Maybe I'm just bored of it all.
I felt a little more comfortable doing what I do when I was younger, but mostly because I had tons of energy, no fear, and little to lose. Responsibility has made me move much slower. Plus, I've made mistakes, learned from them, and now fear the thought of new problems.
Also, I used to think about business 24/7. Sleep 4 hours a night. Work because I loved it so much. I couldn't keep up with the new ideas, and I had to implement them ALL or I was a mess!
Now... I need 7 hours of sleep, and I have a little fishing boat parked next to the house. I'd rather be out on the lake with my wife, or the kids, and a pole. These are the moments that make my life feel full. If I don't make the "next big thing"... I'm good.
> As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it then the average joe?
Hackers we'll die earlier, obese and with mobility problems, and probably sitting, while trying to hack "life". :)
I'm not a big fan of the whole "hack life" mentality. We aren't used to deal with complex systems, such as organisms or life. Despite the echo chamber we live in, the systems we deal with are simple; way simpler than life, and deterministic. Every time we think we "hacked life", we're just ignoring the complexity of the problem at hand (just think about the "hack nutrition" ideas around...).
Man, what a weird question. I'm 61; been programming since 1968 (Ferranti Atlas -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_%28computer%29 -- the first machine with a whole bunch of stuff). What have I learned?:
* Software isn't eating the world. Software is the world.
* Software has very little to do with the next 'disrupting X'. That is just VC twaddle trying to pull one over on the rest of us. Do not mistake floozy business models for solid value add.
If you want to 'hack life' then solve really hard problems (or play really hard music - your choice). Do not fixate on 20 year olds and their next big thing. Finding and solving big problems will juice your Amygdala, and said juicing will ensure a happy life hack above and beyond 'the average Joe'. Though quite why that is such an important goal is beyond me (do you really want to be the "last man standing"?).
> As hackers, do you feel like you can hack life and get more years out of it then the average joe?
Yeah, sun screen, good diet, meditation and exercise.
> Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming up the next big thing?
I feel there's a rift.
The market is more competitive and requires people to go to school longer to stay on edge.
For me, it seem you trade your social life, kinda, for a secured or better future prospect by chasing the money instead of enjoyment of life. So the rift I'm seeing is that there are younger people that are poor but more genuine in characters and sociable. I find myself stuck being jealous, not envious mind you, but at the same time working on this aspect of myself. I'm also using my money to buy experiences such as trying new things and creating opportunity to experience things.
As I am closer to 30, soon to be 30 this year, I find myself less risky and more conservative in actions. In term of I now rather have a secure job with better work balance life than a startup job with lots of overtime.
The next big thing for me is not the big thing anymore.
It's what is good enough to bring in passive income with minimum amount of upkeep.
It's not, oh I want to be the next google, but more of I want to create a service that people want -- at the same that enable me to work little so I can enjoy more.
Sometime I feel lost or rather frustrated, the young kid in their 20s adopt bleeding edge technology recklessly and they move on to new job and somebody are stuck with maintaining their mess. Google have Mesos or Kubernetes or Big data, we need it too!
If you young people are reading, please adopt boring technology. Or research more throughly, I guess taking a risk in adoption can pay out, RoR senior are making bank. I chose the PHP route...
[+] [-] codingdave|10 years ago|reply
I feel like the younger folk tend to re-invent ideas that have come and gone, and don't do enough research to see what has come before. They spin their wheels figuring out things that us older folk already know. Sure, they do it with newer toolkits than I know, and that is why I keep up on HN - because the newer technologies are where the younger crowd can teach me something.
But I don't feel lost in the culture... I feel disinterested in it.
I also think that being older, with a family, and a full life outside of work, I'm not interested in pursuing wealth the same way that young people are. I have a nest egg, I have a good salary, I also have a wife, children, a small farm that we run, mountains, deserts and oceans to explore, stars to look at, etc.
I am no longer 23 and trying to establish my life. I am 43, have built a life that works for me, and am far more concerned with raising my children than with raising my wealth. To me wealth is binary - you have enough to live your life, or you do not. At the moment, I do.
So can I hack life to get more out of it? I think I already have.
[+] [-] lfowles|10 years ago|reply
As a young person (26), what looks like a pursuit for wealth from the outside is just me trying to get to this stability point so I can slow down. :) I don't even live in an area with absurd housing costs and I still feel like that's a distant dream if I keep on keeping on at my dayjob.
Reinventing the wheel? Sounds suspiciously like the process of learning! "Teaching is better than doing is better than being taught."
[+] [-] habitue|10 years ago|reply
I feel like "young developers reinvent what we already had 30 years ago" kind of ennui gets espoused here on HN a lot. To me, this is less wisdom gleaned from experience and more a preference based on shifting priorities. There's nothing wrong with not being interested in new shiny stuff, but there's also nothing wrong with being interested in it.
[+] [-] oaktowner|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] modoc|10 years ago|reply
I've started eating right and working out, which has helped both body and mind, and I've developed task and time management techniques that work for me. While I admit my mind might not be 100% as quick as it was when i was 20, I do feel remarkably more productive.
Although to be fair, I'm not in the SV ecosystem, and run my startup (although after 8 years maybe not a startup any longer?) from outside of Boston (a location where a strong business model still beats a profitless pitch deck), so perhaps the environment is one reason I feel the way I do.
[+] [-] robotkilla|10 years ago|reply
care to elaborate? I'm 34 and I keep hearing that my mind is supposed to slow down but it hasn't yet. I drink 2 cups of coffee a day, don't smoke cigs, am not overweight, try to go for a walk for 30 minutes minimum each day, go to sleep by 9ish and am up by 3 or 4am. I also watch very little TV, read regularly and push myself to learn new stuff on a near constant basis (python > node > c# > cg within the space of the last 4 years, along with pixel art, a bit of 3d art, loads of 3d programming + 2d game programming - all in addition to being a web dev contractor).
The change I've seen in my brain as I've gotten older is that I seem to be learning at an accelerated rate. However there are days when my depression or stress gets the best of me and I have to just take half a day or so to "detox" (binge watch netflix, play video games etc).
I wonder if some of the slow down people feel is artificially induced, or even misperceived (it takes me longer to reply to questions, but that's because I'm considering more answers or sifting through more knowledge that I have).
edit: Alzheimers / other brain related issues are absolutely terrifying to me so I'm interested in understanding what people mean by slowing down specifically... also there's a small part of me that worries I've slowed down and just haven't noticed it yet.
[+] [-] GFischer|10 years ago|reply
8 years and going is not a startup though, congratulations on your (small?) business :)
[+] [-] arisAlexis|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmelendez|10 years ago|reply
Don't you feel you connect the dots easier now than 15 years ago? That's something I notice I get better as time passes
[+] [-] randcraw|10 years ago|reply
Jeez. At 35 you're still just a kid.
I'm 57 and I've definitely seen brain changes. At 20 I could learn 80% of new stuff in one pass. That ended by 35, when I had to take and review notes to learn as well. Now at 57, I simply can't remember minutiae like I once could. Proper nouns are especially tough to recall (famous names especially). I don't retain entire 1000 LOC programs in my head any more.
Learning new computer languages still isn't too tough but breaking new ground in math is. My ability to see multiple perspectives of a new concept all at once is not what it once was. I have to work harder at concentrating and distractions are more disruptive. I really HATE working in an open space without earplugs.
So yes, the brain ages. At age 50 I'll be much more impressed when you claim, "Oh yeah, my brain hasen't lost a step since 20."
[+] [-] CuriouslyC|10 years ago|reply
As for your reduction in memory/recall, one thing that can help is to learn more diverse information. The connectivity of a network is a function of the diversity of its inputs/outputs, and the more connected a network is, the shorter the average path to any given node (in this case a memory).
[+] [-] andresmanz|10 years ago|reply
> Proper nouns are especially tough to recall (famous names especially).
Well, why should you retain entire 1000 LOC programs in your head? If it's not to make fast navigation through a code base possible at all, that's unimportant information. And is it important to recall these names? You should keep in mind that your brain gets better at prioritizing over the years. And prioritizing can be very effective - since I was 18 I've only memorized names of people I met more than two or even three times.
[+] [-] th0waway|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcmaffey|10 years ago|reply
I would even go so far as to say that our culture's preoccupation with youth presents an opportunity for disruptive ideas/startups, based in "wisdom and experience."
[+] [-] GnarfGnarf|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bsenftner|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sago|10 years ago|reply
The biggest change has been values though. My values and my criteria for success are different now than they were when I founded my first business at 22. Now with a family, assets, residual income and a home, I'm far far more interested in being interested than I am in numerical 'success', and much more motivated by social justice. So I definitely don't have the hunger for startup life. I don't feel lost in that culture. I just feel that I've been there, got the t-shirt, and moved beyond, so I don't feel the need to go back for more than the odd visit.
So yeah, maybe I'm getting over the hill in some ways. But that's not a bad thing. I don't feel out-competed, I just feel like experience and perspective have made me change what I value, both in code and in business (and other bits of life: in relationships, in vacations, in hobbies, etc).
[+] [-] ak39|10 years ago|reply
Organisation is a skill you learn through experience. No other way. You can attempt to teach a newcomer about the virtues of refactoring (basically tidying up the kitchen after you've baked your masterpiece) but I can assure you, the mind at early stages of doing new things is less interested in tidying up the process than it is about seeing the exciting outcome.
That's by nature.
[+] [-] lavara|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xdeadbeefbabe|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notNow|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Nursie|10 years ago|reply
On a more serious note I am becoming better at what I do because I understand much more of pretty much everything in far greater depth than I used to. And while I perhaps don't have the stamina or raw LoC output ability of a 21 year old any more, I can usually achieve tasks much faster because I know what I'm doing and I make fewer mistakes.
I'm definitely much more cynical about flavour of the week languages and frameworks though. And I find it very funny that things get reinvented every few years as a new generation decides some thing is too cumbersome (often SQL or DMBSs) and needs to be thrown out, only to be slowly reinvented as all the edge cases that lead to the abstraction are discovered...
And I'm only 36.
Career-wise, no discrimination noticed yet.
[+] [-] pmelendez|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] th0waway|10 years ago|reply
I am worried about age discrimination, so I am planning my exit from IT.
[+] [-] jakejake|10 years ago|reply
At that age I probably would have looked at my older self and thought that I had lost my passion, had sold out, become uncool, etc. It didn't occur to me that I would still remember everything that I knew at 20, plus have another 20 years to figure out what actually is important to me and become twice as confident and comfortable with myself.
I felt way more "lost" when I was 20 than I did at 40. I don't think I've necessarily figured it all out. But, as much fun as I had when I was young, I like my life more now.
[+] [-] zepolen|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] rm_-rf_slash|10 years ago|reply
Maybe it's because it's harder to convince a 40-year old programmer to work bullshit hours for a few slices of free pizza.
[+] [-] ryandrake|10 years ago|reply
Less lines of code per hour than when I was young: CHECK
More productive than when I was young: CHECK
Not reinventing wheels anymore: CHECK
Recognizing all the wheels I reinvented when I was young thinking I was so clever: CHECK
Keeping up with new languages/tools/frameworks: CHECK
Skepticism at the people who think this new language/tool/framework is going to CHANGE EVERYTHING: CHECK
Paying more attention to my health: CHECK
Hobbies outside of work: CHECK
A couple of things I disagree with though.
Employment opportunity:
I definitely am starting to see evidence of ageism. Job hopping is more difficult, and the quality/appeal of available jobs is no longer what it used to be. It's much harder to get the attention of recruiters now than it was 15 years ago, and I feel I'm at a negotiating disadvantage vs. younger people who have no problem sleeping at their desks and subsisting on noodles and Mountain Dew alone. Quite honestly, 90% of job postings I read are utterly uninteresting to a 40 year old. Sometimes the company or product is boring, uncompelling, or something I've already worked on. Sometimes the culture reeks of bro-grammer. Or it's full of dog-whistle words that tell me I'll be working 80 hour weeks and not be compensated well for it.
Financial position:
Software engineering has not been very financially rewarding. I guess you can always find someone and say, boy they're doing much better than I. I seem to be permanently behind the people I knew who went into more lucrative careers. I feel like I'm much less well established at 40 than my parents (who made shit as school teachers) were when they were 40. The clock is ticking and I feel it's going to run out before I'm able to retire. Time feels like a predator, stalking me and waiting to devour me as punishment for not making/saving enough.
[+] [-] logfromblammo|10 years ago|reply
Though my financial position might be worse, due to ill-timed property purchases. Basically, the majority of my net worth was in real estate in 2007. I have had to move multiple times to find sufficiently remunerative work for a small family. So I'm just treading water now. I have been busting my ass for 16 years now, with literally nothing to show for it. Everything I have ever gained has been taken back, by circumstances beyond my control.
So when I see those Baby Boomers, retiring with nice, big nest eggs from working 40 years at the same company, I just start to seethe in rage. They are the ones who started pulling all the ladders up after climbing them.
I don't think it's just software. Everyone born after the Baby Boomers is worse off than their parents were at the same age. That generation just isn't giving the same as they got, because they are such a large economic force, they could get whatever they want. All I can say is that they had better fix up the nursing homes while they still have the power to do so. Gen X and Millennial won't have time to take care of them while still looking for new jobs every 2-5 years.
[+] [-] PopeOfNope|10 years ago|reply
Job hopping is more difficult, and the quality/appeal of available jobs is no longer what it used to be.
I've been thinking about this lately and I've come to the conclusion that most programming jobs aren't technically challenging to me at this point in my life. As I learn more and get older, I also look for greater challenges to overcome. The best paying jobs in the industry (and in the HN hiring thread) are all about making the same things I made in 2001, just with different technologies.
The above conclusions have forced me to start thinking about what's next. Is it really starting my own business? If I'm going to take the time to learn business development, marketing and sales, is programming really the most lucrative use of my time?
[+] [-] softawre|10 years ago|reply
What other lucrative careers do you mean? Law/Medicine? Anyone with their own firm will make more money, including software engineers.
Are you not saving enough?
[+] [-] jensnockert|10 years ago|reply
I don't think age is the important thing here, I have worked with people of all ages (15-70 or so) that I look up to and learned a lot from. Experience is important, and it is hard to have experienced a lot of things if you are 20.
On a semi-related note, all my best bosses have been parents, having kids seem to teach you something about the value of time.
[+] [-] phkahler|10 years ago|reply
I once talked to an old (60) guy who was writing code down the aisle from me. He said he tried management, but didn't want to mediate disputes between children - he had his own at home. I thought his experience was probably unusual, but I've asked a number of managers since then, and they all agree that's an unfortunately large part of the job. I don't see it because they keep it away from the team - as it should be. But then when I got my first crack at "having a small team" I saw exactly the same thing. So yes, tech skills are important but parenting can also be a relevant background ;-)
[+] [-] ffn|10 years ago|reply
Non-purple TL;DR: I deal with it by abandoning any sense of pride / shame I might've had.
[+] [-] scotch_drinker|10 years ago|reply
For the former, I read a lot on diet, nutrition and exercise. I believe in 50 years, we will look back at the time when our diets were largely based on sugary carbohydrates and wonder what the hell we were thinking. I experiment with fasting. I do different kinds of exercises. We don't have total control over our health but so many of us make regular poor decisions that even tiny improvements have to help. Of course, I could walk out in front of a bus tomorrow but attempting to improve each day goes a long way.
From a health perspective, I subscribe to Nassim Taleb's idea of reduction instead of addition. High cholesterol? Don't start taking statins, start eliminating things like sugar and processed carbs and wheat. High blood pressure? Don't add blood pressure medicine, try exercising regularly, don't smoke, eat vegetables. Etc, etc.
Long story longer, if all you do technology and health wise is exactly what everyone else has always done or always told you to do, you'll get what everyone else has always gotten. True, experimenting and hacking may not help at all but there is plenty of evidence out there that walking a different path can get you different results.
[+] [-] bischofs|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joesmo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] allsystemsgo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VLM|10 years ago|reply
Anyway the point of extreme youth focus in the Mom 2.0 bubble is it makes sense when you're 20 and urban and rich and have never lived away from home (aka mom 1.0), but once you're 40 and you have become the Mom (err, Dad, or whatever), then it's kind of a hard sell and you're just not going to fit in with the biz model.
There is also a mythology that kids will lock on to branding for their entire life, so the most popular group to sell to is kids. It doesn't work, of course, but its a very popular mythology and highly politically incorrect to question it. If it actually worked of course, I'd spend my lunch hour driving my Segway around to play Pog games in between gaming sessions on the Colecovision or something like that.
[+] [-] hipsterrific|10 years ago|reply
With friends, most of my friends are younger but it's nice to be able to partner with them and go through life shoulder to shoulder. It's nice to know that I have the means to be able to help people too, that alone gives me much satisfaction and contentment.
The nice thing is, 35 seems to be a starting point for me. I've got a long way to go and I'm re-evaluating my options. I used to think that getting older meant that I would regret not having accomplished the goals I had in my youth but now, I see it as refining my goals and I'm walking into things with far more experience and knowledge which means more than just "getting it done" but "getting it done, well."
[+] [-] dpcan|10 years ago|reply
I felt a little more comfortable doing what I do when I was younger, but mostly because I had tons of energy, no fear, and little to lose. Responsibility has made me move much slower. Plus, I've made mistakes, learned from them, and now fear the thought of new problems.
Also, I used to think about business 24/7. Sleep 4 hours a night. Work because I loved it so much. I couldn't keep up with the new ideas, and I had to implement them ALL or I was a mess!
Now... I need 7 hours of sleep, and I have a little fishing boat parked next to the house. I'd rather be out on the lake with my wife, or the kids, and a pole. These are the moments that make my life feel full. If I don't make the "next big thing"... I'm good.
[+] [-] paulojreis|10 years ago|reply
Hackers we'll die earlier, obese and with mobility problems, and probably sitting, while trying to hack "life". :)
I'm not a big fan of the whole "hack life" mentality. We aren't used to deal with complex systems, such as organisms or life. Despite the echo chamber we live in, the systems we deal with are simple; way simpler than life, and deterministic. Every time we think we "hacked life", we're just ignoring the complexity of the problem at hand (just think about the "hack nutrition" ideas around...).
[+] [-] alanlit|10 years ago|reply
* Software isn't eating the world. Software is the world. * Software has very little to do with the next 'disrupting X'. That is just VC twaddle trying to pull one over on the rest of us. Do not mistake floozy business models for solid value add.
If you want to 'hack life' then solve really hard problems (or play really hard music - your choice). Do not fixate on 20 year olds and their next big thing. Finding and solving big problems will juice your Amygdala, and said juicing will ensure a happy life hack above and beyond 'the average Joe'. Though quite why that is such an important goal is beyond me (do you really want to be the "last man standing"?).
[+] [-] digitalzombie|10 years ago|reply
Yeah, sun screen, good diet, meditation and exercise.
> Or do you feel lost in a culture that hails 20 year olds that are dreaming up the next big thing?
I feel there's a rift.
The market is more competitive and requires people to go to school longer to stay on edge.
For me, it seem you trade your social life, kinda, for a secured or better future prospect by chasing the money instead of enjoyment of life. So the rift I'm seeing is that there are younger people that are poor but more genuine in characters and sociable. I find myself stuck being jealous, not envious mind you, but at the same time working on this aspect of myself. I'm also using my money to buy experiences such as trying new things and creating opportunity to experience things.
As I am closer to 30, soon to be 30 this year, I find myself less risky and more conservative in actions. In term of I now rather have a secure job with better work balance life than a startup job with lots of overtime.
The next big thing for me is not the big thing anymore.
It's what is good enough to bring in passive income with minimum amount of upkeep.
It's not, oh I want to be the next google, but more of I want to create a service that people want -- at the same that enable me to work little so I can enjoy more.
Sometime I feel lost or rather frustrated, the young kid in their 20s adopt bleeding edge technology recklessly and they move on to new job and somebody are stuck with maintaining their mess. Google have Mesos or Kubernetes or Big data, we need it too!
If you young people are reading, please adopt boring technology. Or research more throughly, I guess taking a risk in adoption can pay out, RoR senior are making bank. I chose the PHP route...