Ask HN: How can you tell if you are insane?

[qwertyFish]

My family is quite worried about me. Two days ago I believe someone hacked in to my cellphone and computer. It was behaving oddly as was my cellphone. Coupled with several harassing emails one of which told me that "here is something over your head" and contained a link to someone using Metasploit in a YouTube video demonstrating a root kit attack against a mobile device, I became concerned.

However, I also truly believed that they had my cellphone and were intercepting outgoing calls to my wireless provider. I tried to use the home phone which, immediately began to call out when I tried to use it, even though I never completed dialing. I called my wireless provider to check data usage and it felt like the person was "off" taking long periods of time to answer and give normal pieces of info back to me like other phone numbers on the account and basic stuff. My passwords were all on my phone so I honestly believed someone was looking up the information and they were stalling for time. Battery was draining while phone was off and didn't seem to hold a charge well.

I also felt very ill about 2 days later and had stayed up resetting and wiping all my devices and router. I went to the 24 hour walk in clinic with symptoms of being very weak dizzy and other general things.

My family thinks I am crazy. At first I was angry but I realize there is no way for me to really objectively consider this. I really believe my system was compromised and I am starting to doubt my own sanity I guess. Is there a way to figure out if I am crazy? It could be brought on by lack of sleep and stress, I doubt/hope it isn't anything permanent. I am 26 male, don't think it is something as serious as Schiz. And I take adrall (40mg) daily, slightly more recently, but other than that do not take drugs or drink.

How can I evaluate my mental condition objectively?

[rojost]

Your story reminds me of a similar one that appeared on reddit a little while ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/34novp/user_thinks_...

https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/34l7vo/ma_posti...

Do you have a carbon monoxide detector?

Dizziness can be one of the symptoms. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Carbon-monoxide-poisoning/Pages...

[teraflop]

There is a much more similar case from a few weeks back: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3iycro/fl_i_am...

The poster thought they were being spied on by law enforcement, and that a drone was entering their house and moving around the iPad they had set up to monitor the premises (!). They posted some of the clips to YouTube but none of the commenters saw anything suspicious.

It turned out to be a paranoid delusion caused by a combination of stress, sleep deprivation and Adderall, which is the exact situation in this thread. I would highly encourage the OP to read both the original post and the followup.

[qwertyFish]

Ok. This makes the most sense. Actually pretty relieved. I don't think I have gone that far yet, but that seems pretty in line with what happened. I guess it is good that he showed up and said he was fine and returned to normal. I don't "feel" like I am a total nutter but after ~5 hours of sleep in 48 hours, I slept for ~11 hours and felt a bit better. Going to have to def scale my dosage down and sleep more. This post was the most helpful. Sure, what I said sounds crazy, but to be fair I did receive some troll emails and my shit was all fucked up. I think the schizo. diagnosis was a bit strong, but this one makes way more sense. Thanks, nice to see this person recovered well and that overdoing it can lead to some really fucked up shit.

[tdicola]

First thing I thought too--that Reddit thread was creepy but spot on.

[archagon]

Also thought of this. Might be a stretch but certainly worth investigating.

[ziles88]

Hi qwertyFish thank you so much for reaching out.

I have a close family member, and close friend who both suffer from Schizophrenia. Although I'd hate to make any type of diagnosis over a medium like this, I feel you've been descriptive enough for me to make an educated guess.

Schizophrenia is a fairly complex disorder with varying levels of severity. What you described sounds very close to what a lot of people describe as their first 'episode', which commonly comes between the ages of 18-30. It includes what you've described, a long period of being awake, with intense thoughts, paranoia, and a inescapable need to 'do something' (such as wipe your devices).

One of the greatest challenges of dealing with this is finding treatment fast enough before the disease progresses. Often once it progresses, the person no longer is able to realize something is wrong. As you've described it, you still have that sinking feeling that something isn't right. Often at this stage general practitioners will not understand the disease enough to make a diagnosis, so it's important you see a trained psychiatrist as soon as possible.

For your question about evaluating your condition objectively, this is part of the core treatment of Schizophrenia and it's related disorders, so it would be best a doctor helps you with this. Adderral is a known to aggravate Schizophrenia as it interferes with Dopamine, I'd advise to cut down or stop taking it until you can speak to a doctor. There is also a very small chance you are experiencing a reaction to long term Adderall use it's self, experiencing a Amphetamine psychosis which has very symptoms to Schizophrenia but is temporary. Do not risk it though, for a lot of people if Schizophrenia advances, they are unable, or refuse to seek treatment.

[qwertyFish]

Thank you for that answer. My "hopeful" theory is that I did get hacked and maybe overreacted too much. However, if I am being honest, regardless I think it is likely amphetamine psychosis. I have been taking it for 3months but as month 4 started I began to take a bit more at times, possibly leading to these symptoms.

I think being somewhat paranoid is positive, but I need to have a better way to assess the underlying concerns rationally and not from a paranoid/worst case view.

Thanks.

[zamalek]

> see a trained psychiatrist

Always the best advice.

[caffeinewriter]

Actually, Adderall could very, very easily be causing this. In the same vein of the guy who had CO poisoning, there was a man who was paranoid about drones doing surveillance on him.

https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3iycro/fl_i_am_...

It seems like it could be in parallel to your situation. I highly recommend having someone evaluating your dosage, as well as whether it's an adverse effect of the Adderall itself.

[qwertyFish]

yep, just read that thread. Resolving to cut my consumption way down.

[sachingulaya]

40mg of adderall daily is the maximum allowed daily amount. That makes me wonder in and of itself..I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are abusing it. Probably a lack of sleep leading to paranoia. Someone hacking your phone? It could happen. More likely is you are either having your first break from reality with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. or you are having paranoia and a mental breakdown secondary to drug abuse and lack of sleep.

Why are you taking 40mg adderall daily?

[QuantumLogic]

It's 60mg day that's the maximum daily amount. No idea where you got that from. The pills themselves go up to 30mg per pill as well. In fact, in some cases, they allow up to 90mg a day, that's like the max-max they can legally give, but it's in more specific circumstances like if someone's already been taking it for years and also has a larger body mass as well.

[DanBC]

You might want to arrange a "Rainy Day Action Plan" with a family member or close friend that you trust.

This would involve you writing a list of stuff that you do and don't want to happen if people ever feel the need to provide treatment. It can include signs to look out for - that mean things aren't going well and that people should take action.

I'm not going to do any kind of diagnostic stuff but early intervention is important.

EDIT: obviously, you should see a doctor rather than relying on Internet advice.

EDIT: here's a sample plan

http://www.2gether.nhs.uk/advanced-care-planning

[qwertyFish]

Thanks. I don't think I need to do that yet and not really sure what I would include. I guess on balance, I think I am somewhat abnormal in terms of goals and stuff, and have never achieved a high level of success but don't think I am overtly crazy to the point that I need this yet.

I recently had to move back to the rural area I am from and although I am quite social, have had limited interaction with people outside my family. There is a single store in my town, no stoplights etc rural as fuck. No one in my demo. I think I need to start getting out more but will keep this link in case.

[tdicola]

The correct answer is go to a health professional and have them evaluate your mental and physical health objectively.

[paulcole]

Yes, based on the question, this is the only advice in this thread that should even be considered.

[JamesBaxter]

Based on your username it seems possible to me you're a fan of the TV show MR Robot as the main character has a fish called QWERTY. The main character Elliot suffers from anxiety, depression, insomnia and mania.

I would consider that unless like Elliot you're trying to reset society's debt to zero it's unlikely you're being targeted. What makes you worth targeting over anyone else?

I think you should speak to a medical professional (get multiple opinions if you don't trust them) and move on from there.

There's a lot we can learn from Mr Robot, for me the biggest lesson is you can't always trust what you see and feel. Find somebody who can help you with that.

For instance, I'm partially convinced this is just someone trolling hacker news whilst bored on a Sunday...

[qwertyFish]

I responded to this already, but the hacker must have intercepted it. Just kidding, I think I hit post limit because this account is new.

Regardless, that was the reference and I am definitely not that spun out, for sure. I will say this though, when he goes to meet wh1teR0se he says maybe they're the best because "they are more paranoid than the rest of us".

So, did I take too much adderall, flip out and whipe my whole system? Yep. Have I been leading a financial revolution under the exper tutelage of my dead father with a curious affinity for back to the future II? Not yet.

[anon98273918]

Hey qwertyFish, thanks for reaching out. It's brave and commendable to ask this question from your position.

I don't know if this is your case, you should to talk a psychotherapist and/or a psychiatrist, but some of the details of your story (like picking up on details like the pace of talking from a wireless company representative) remind me of my mother. She thought there was a worldwide conspiracy against her, with the CIA involved, and so on. One example: she was active in a Blogger community, and someone connected to her network wrote this mundane blog post about visiting the zoo with his family, written in a witty style and with pictures of animals. My mother thought this was a concealed attack to her well being. ("I am obviously the giraffe in this story", etc). There was no way to make her see how absurd that was, that was her perception of reality, and she wouldn't budge from it.

Unfortunately, even after having seen doctors and having spent time in a mental hospital, she continues to deny that she is unwell. She is too proud and too stubborn to be open to the idea that her perception is mistaken, or that she has an illness, or that she is not at the center of the world. Her illness along with her pride and stubbornness has caused our family a lot of pain. Imagine your mother or your sister or your wife, not just becoming mentally unwell (that is tough but fixable), but denying at all costs that she is unwell, and so letting that illness define her character going forward.

So for me, whether or not you have a health issue, you taking into consideration what your family is worried about, is commendable. Please stay open to what the people who are close to you and who care about you have to say.

I wish you the best of luck friend.

[throwaway349287]

EDIT: I've reviewed the Reddit thread linked in another comment! (The Co2 guy)[1] Given that the original Reddit report was written as cogently as you've been writing I would suggest taking similar and related steps. I don't have anything more specific to add. Get things back to normal. Also you report physical illness, so this would go hand-in-hand with some similar reason. (For example, Co2 guy had severe headaches, that he didn't mention but which were a symptom.)

I've deleted the earlier version of this comment (in which I asked you to speculate on a motive for the email) as I think that it is more important to address the things that could cause these thoughts. It would be different if you didn't feel sick or weren't taking a high drug level.

I see a lot of similarities, especially because you mention physical illness (although the OP there didn't mention his headaches until prompted.) Try to solve them, as they're quite serious. Bear in mind that your judgment may be impaired at the moment, and that your family are concerned. Try to solve the external source of the issues if at all possible.

[1] Here is the thread I mean: https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/34l7vo/ma_posti...

[meesterdude]

> How can I evaluate my mental condition objectively?

You can't. You need a third party (such as a psychologist) to definitively tell you what's what. It's super easy to fool and mislead ones self.

I once thought my girlfriend hacked into my computer and corrupted it somehow; I lost everything. In hindsight, that was a crazy thing to think, but at the time it made sense given who she was and what was technically capable and all that.

What one must do, is separate what is possible (being hacked) from what is likely (computer crash) from what is absurd (girlfriend did it). This is not always easy, and not always straightforward, and not always something you can and should do by yourself.

Also... stress is a biggie. aderall likely won't help things either. People have lapses, behave irrationally or quite insanely as result of temporary outside factors. So, Its not something to worry about in that sense, but its certainly something to identify the cause of and take action against and monitor.

best of luck!

[slr555]

Insane is probably not a useful word in this context. Is it possible that you are suffering from an illness? Of course it is. The internet is not the place to seek a diagnosis. Make an appointment with your primary care provider or a qualified mental health professional. There are a number of illnesses that can manifest themselves in ways archaically referred to as mental. Just keep in mind that everything that happens in your brain is chemical and electrical. If you are having a psychotic break, and believe me I do not mean that as a pejorative but simply as a medical term then you need qualified medical care. When asked, a schizophrenic patient will say when they began to hear voices they were as real to them as their friend talking from the next room. I wish you the best of luck. Get help. If you need treatment, get healthy. These are tough issues. Hang in there.

[allworknoplay]

Go talk to a doctor. Strangers on the internet with anecdotes are not qualified for this.

Never be embarrassed if you think you might be having a temporary psychotic break or experiencing heretofore unknown symptoms of schizoaffective disorder or bipolar disorder. It will do no good sitting around and wondering.

Getting help is the only thing that will help you regain confidence in yourself. And maybe it's nothing and you were right all along.

[codeonfire]

Doctors are not always helpful for stuff like this. I wouldn't go to a doctor unless I am bleeding or immobile from pain or for scheduled checkups. They see far worse that a little paranoia every day, and will probably just prescribe some random pills. Doctors don't care about un-treatable problems and "i'm afraid of my phone" isn't a treatable problem. Yes, they can refer a mental health specialist. That specialist will just confirm, yes you do have whatever problem you think you might or something else that's more benign and should start regularly paying them.

[koopuluri]

Please direct these questions to a psychiatrist. I doubt many of us here replying are qualified to provide guidance on what you are experiencing and why. And ignore the name dropping of various mental illnesses and speculations by others; getting in contact with qualified people and calmly explaining your situation and providing evidence of what you saw / feel is the best option.

[ap22213]

It's probably very difficult to evaluate oneself 'objectively' but that said, if it's affecting your life negatively, you may want to get a medical diagnosis. Your sudden paranoid-like behavior could be caused by any one of many different physiological, neurological, or psychological things.

Also 40mg of adderall seems like a lot, if you're on adderall xr.

[sharon2012]

I think the best thing is to see a doctor. However, your behavior is too paranoid and may indicate a certain mental condition. To be sure though, just see a physician.

[Iamnotcrazyokay]

Is no one going to address the objective evidence? If there are emails flaunting exploits... You're not crazy. If the emails don't exist, there's probably a bigger issue. If the emails did exist and then got deleted... That's tough.

[teraflop]

The problem is that paranoia causes you to assign meanings and interpretations that aren't reasonable. We haven't seen any emails, only the OP's brief, vague description of them. And even if they do exist, there is a huge difference between sending a threatening email and tapping a phone.

In the Reddit thread I linked elsewhere, someone thought they had "objective evidence" of intruders and drones in their house, because they were seizing on tiny details -- a tape dispenser not where they remembered it, an airplane flying overhead, bumps and clicks on an audio recording -- and assigning them the worst possible interpretation.

Likewise, the fact that the OP is seeing events like "the phone company's tech support was slow to respond to my questions" as part of the conspiracy is a huge red flag.

[qwertyFish]

I posted the emails. They exist. While I went a bit over the top, the emails definitely exist.

[forgotmypassw]

You could always visit a doctor who specializes in these things to get evaluated objectively. Also cut the aderall.

[echlebek]

Hi, I used to take adderal for ADD when I was in my early 20s.

40 mg/day is a LOT... who put you on that dose? I was taking 10-20 mg/day and it usually left me feeling totally zonked. (I'm about 200 lbs) Taking 40 mg was a sure-fire way to spend the day grinding my teeth and babbling frantically.

I definitely experienced paranoia, and tended to fixate on things outside my sphere of influence, which lead to feelings of helplessness and despair. At the time I thought I was seeing things more clearly.

After a while I realized that while adderal was effective at improving performance in rote tasks, it messed pretty severely with abstract reasoning. I ditched it cold turkey one day and never went back. Surprisingly there were no withdrawal effects. After stopping its use, my grades in university level math and computer science improved dramatically.

I now believe that psychiatrists are wrong about prescribing adderal for ADD, and that adderal is not a safe or effective long-term treatment. Frankly, I think the whole field is either in denial, or corrupted by financial incentives.

Some people will tell you that you need someone to objectively evaluate your mental state, but I don't believe such an analysis is truly possible. Best-case, you'll get an educated guess and some good advice. Worst-case, someone will try to prescribe you even more drugs. So before you do that, quit taking speed, and exercise regularly. You might be surprised by how much better you feel.

[Mz]

How can I evaluate my mental condition objectively?

You can never be entirely objective about your mental condition. But you can try to find objective verification about what was going on, whether that validates or refutes your ideas about the events.

Hemingway thought the government was tapping his phones, etc. Everyone thought he was crazy. It came out after his death that he was right.

Just because it seems improbable to other people does not mean you are imagining it. But, also, the fact that you fell ill means you could have been misinterpreting things due to fever or other temporary mental impairment.

Whether you were coming up with unfounded ideas or were right, the best answer is to seek some kind of objective evidence concerning what actually happened. If you get objective evidence that refutes your interpretation, then you can feel okay about the possibility that it was machinations of a fevered mind. If you get evidence that something wonky was going on, you can deal with it.

Since you were sick, please consider the possibility that it is a little of column A and a little of column B. Perhaps someone did something, but you blew it out of proportion. The truth may lay somewhere between the extremes of "I was 100% right" and "I was 100% crazy and imagining things."

Best of luck.

[alexdowad]

See a professional, and if they recommend medication, try it for at least a few days and see if your view of the situation changes.

Story: I knew a lady in her 40s who started experiencing some psychosis. She started thinking that people were spying on her and reporting her activities on radio and TV, that huge gatherings were being held in football stadiums to watch videos of her which had been secretly filmed, that songs on the radio (in languages she didn't know) were talking about her, etc.

She thought that all her friends knew about this but didn't mention anything so as not to alarm her. After a couple months went by, and still none of her friends mentioned anything, she thought it was strange and decided to have herself checked instead.

After taking the recommended medication, within a day or so, the strange music she used to hear in the distance disappeared, all the people on the radio and TV stopped talking about her, etc.

Moral: Don't get stuck on the stigma of the "crazy" label. Just like anyone can get sick physically, people who are otherwise normal can start having mental problems. That doesn't mean you're "crazy". It does mean that you should have yourself checked by someone who is knowledgeable about such ailments.