Ask HN: Company is growing and the culture shift is uncomfortable. What do I do?

[klunger]

We were a small consulting shop, with quirky and close coworkers. Suddenly (last 3 months) we have brought on an HR manager, a PR manager, a project manager manager, and many more developers.

Everything feels much more... corporate? Overly professional? I am struggling to think of how to describe it. The HR manager scares me, although I am not sure why.

I realize that all of this is my problem, that the issue is how I am reacting to things, not the things themselves. It is not something that anyone is doing wrong, it is just the nature of growth. Several people have quit because they do not like the changes, but I don't really want to quit.

So... does anyone have any experience with this? I guess I just want some advice on how to reframe the situation, so it is acceptable to my preference for casual/personal environments. Or maybe, I just want advice on how to keep things weird while growing.

[Bar_Code]

I know what you are going through. My last job was at Shutterstock, which went from 50 people to 700 in 5 years. I'm doing it again now, we went from 60 to 90 people in 6 months.

I have found that there are inflection points whenever things double. That could be people, revenue, office space, customers, etc. When this happens, "debt" affects the company. You're probably much more familiar with tech debt, and probably architectural debt. Maybe less familiar with organizational and cultural debt. You simply can't do things the way you always have, they don't scale. http://steveblank.com/2015/05/19/organizational-debt-is-like...

Change is inevitable and required. If not managed, it could sink you. Some people will quit regardless, they were probably not the right people for the next phase. At first you don't need teams (you have 1 team), then you need to have 2 teams, them more. This change is disruptive and affects productivity and morale. Read up on team maturity models (not CMM), it will help knowing what phases you will be going through. http://www.businessballs.com/tuckmanformingstormingnormingpe...

I presented the team maturity models too my devs the last time we restructured the teams. Multiple people came to me proudly stating they were in the "storming" phase, which essentially is when you argue a lot. They knew it was a phase, and frustration was reduced.

You do need leadership as you grow. A leader is not your best developer. The HR manager may scare you because they are a "manager", not a "leader". Good managers and leader can toggle between both roles. Too many people are great managers and not leaders. Know the difference between a manager and leader, know which ones you are missing. http://changingminds.org/disciplines/leadership/articles/man...

[debacle]

Do you have more resources for team maturity models? This is the first time I've been introduced to that concept but it seems interesting.

[bjelkeman-again]

How is it different for you this time, going through this a second time?

[ThomPete]

I took a company from 2 people to 80 when we were at the height.

There have been a lot of attempts to crack that nut and most have been unsuccessful.

First you need to realize what is going on when you grow.

1) The more people you hire the more you erode the culture you had. Therefore be very mindful of what kind of people you hire and be quick to realize if they don't fit the culture (even though they might be good). I.e. hire slow, fire fast.

2) Have a set of principles that make you comfortable. If you don't like bullshit have a no bullshit rule, if you don't like agression have a be polite rule. The point is that you will need to be able to see yourself in those principles.

3) Always make it your failure that people are leaving and lear what you can do better next time. Even if it's a person who were really bad for the culture it's your failure. Even if they leave for a better job it's your failure that there is a better job. Find ways within your capabilities to deal with these failures.

4) Most importantly. Make sure people know they are there because they are good enough. I cannot tell you how important this and how many great cultures it has destroyed. Doubting leads to sub-optimale work. Instead of creating a competitive environment create an environment where people feel safe and cherished, that way they will perform much better, at least in my experience.

Last but no least. I rarely make book recommendations but Ed Catmulls (from Pixar) book "Creativity Inc" deals with this exact problem. I can't recommend this book enough. It's so filled with wisdom and perspective and as a bonus a surprisingly good mini Steve Jobs biography.

To give you some of the insights from the book I can recommend you listen to this talk he did http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=3299

That might give you some things to look for and see if you can find ways to address them whether you run the company or you work for it.

[jordanlev]

Good advice, but I think the OP is an employee at the company, not in charge of the growth himself (which your advice seems to be aimed at).

[dbshapco]

1) Culture must evolve with other elements of the company and at certain stages of growth and transition a company may need to intentionally hire to provoke and shape cultural change. Your change agents will be getting flak from many directions and your role may be to cover them and defend their advances.

2) This sounds like entrenching the status quo, risking stagnation. Every company I've ever worked at had some enshrined and virtually unassailable principles and practices. Celebrate the heretics and iconoclasts. It takes a strong internal center to speak out against groupthink and cultural norms. Make thoughtful challenge to the principles a principle (i.e. it cannot be a notwithstanding clause that supports blanket circumvention of other principles). Institutionalize periodic reviews.

3) The company and culture may change out from under some employees. An amicable and blameless split is best, including not blaming yourself. And every new hire constitutes some risk. So much hiring practice aims to minimize that risk without measuring or understanding the cost. It's easy to see and feel the effects of a bad hire, almost impossible to perceive the lost opportunity of a false negative.

Sometimes failure was not avoidable and there are no lessons to be learned to avoid similar situations in the future. Move on quickly, don't dwell.

4) Sounds like the Wobegon Corporation. Supporting cultural evolution is tough, often evolutionary and glacial rather than revolutionary and seismic. Your star performers in a micro-organization may be ineffective at the next level of scale because success then requires a different set of skills. Objective evaluation, effective performance and career management are tough problems made more so in a transitional company.

The culture that supported the company's previous stage needs to adapt for the next. Cultural change requires both people changing and changes in people. Elements of a company's culture will not scale. In organizations of which I've been part recently I've been promoting organizational Agility (capitalization intentional) in which Agile practices are applied to processes and structures, which adapt in response to internal and external forces. Cultural lock in retards progress.

WRT OP, these changes are necessary to support the company's current and continued growth, and I would avoid ascribing sinister intent. The company is changing in ways that don't match your personal work style, in which case it may be time to ask if you can adapt to this new reality (which may mean changing role or function within the company, rather than simply letting momentum carry you forward in your existing position) or look for a different company better aligned with your sweet spot (and do so in a way that is a positive experience on all sides, and don't wait to the point where you are acting out of frustration).

Change means new opportunities, possibilities to be teased out of your current situation. If a role exists or can be created that better suits your strengths, have a conversation with your manager and propose some changes, even as an experiment, "What if we tried ....", with an agreement to meet on a set time frame and evaluate results and pivot or course correct.

[gaius]

The HR manager scares me, although I am not sure why.

Job #1 of HR is to protect the company from its employees. The reason for hiring a HR professional (weirdly they never refer to themselves as "resources") is that the owners or managers now feel that they need that protection. There's a gulf now between management and workers, that perhaps was a narrow stream before. You've instinctively grasped this, that's where your apprehension comes from.

[mirkoadari]

I entirely disagree with this view. If you look at the period of employment, the need for protection takes up a minute moment.

It is more likely that the owners wanted to recruit great talent, have someone whos mission is to create a nice everyday environment, help spot and train leadership or any other number of things that the HR professionals, I've had the pleasure of meeting in my career, are great at and care about.

Between large evil corporations and tiny lean teams, there are variety of companies where a HR professional can help you make it or break it.

[Spooky23]

Not necessarily. When company transitions from a small consulting shop to a bigger org, HR is really there to protect the company from compliance lapses.

In the US, many regulations kick in at 50 employees.

That said, HR is never your pal. Then again, the owner of the company that you drank with in the smaller days wasn't really your pal either.

[jacquesm]

Talk to your management, ask them what their view of the future of the company is. If you've been there since the beginning those lines should still be open. If you get concrete answers and you like the future view, relax, it'll be ok.

If you're being pushed away, if you don't like the future view, if you're being told to talk to someone else or that this is none of your business I'd weigh carefully if you still want to be a part of this company in the longer term and if you decide not to to start looking for an opportunity to jump ship on your terms with your current job as your fall-back plan in case nothing really interesting comes by soon enough.

Lastly, I'm not sure if it is 100% your problem. Some of it obviously is, the need to professionalize will be felt in any growing company, it's hard to take a company from 3 to 30 people without losing something in the process. But not all needs to be lost and to have buy-in of the old-timers and to communicate openly with them is super important in managing that transition gracefully and effectively and this may be where your management is currently not doing the best job they could (but there is too little information in your message to determine that with any accuracy).

Best of luck!

[ap22213]

Unfortunately, you are not going to be able to keep things weird (in this case). The only person who has complete control over the corporate culture is the CEO. And, even then, the CEO takes orders from the board and owners.

From your description of the recent changes, it appears that the CEO, board, and owners do not view unconventional culture as being important to the company's success. So, unless you or someone like you has great influence over the CEO (either directly or indirectly), this is not going to change. Trust me: there's no point in fighting it.

If an unconventional company culture is important to you, it's time to find a new workplace. If you have some time and patience, you can find a company that aims for the same goals as you.

1) corporations are the opposite of democracies,

2) those in leadership are not your friends (though they may be paid a lot to act that way),

3) things that appear to be 'for you' are always 'for the owners', first.

[RickS]

"The CEO is the only one who will change it, and clearly doesn't have interest in that, so give up or move on" feels at first like a bleak and defeatist answer.

I have found that it is entirely true.

A company I worked at before went through this. We spoke to one of our more seasoned investors, who had the same thing as the parent comment to say.

I spent a lot of time trying to find ways for this not to be true, but it is.

At a company, the CEO owns the culture. Even if they don't know they do. There are a lot of variables you can change, but that one's a constant.

[sameers]

Ask yourself why these new people have been hired - what was the (perceived) gap, what role do they play and why did this role become necessary to the company? Ask them if you can't figure it out - no better way to get to know these new people.

Then, ask yourself and them how you can help. A larger organization has more room for responsibilities and career growth. Others among the original 30 probably feel like you do; see if you can demonstrate leadership by identifying and resolving the conflicts that may arise.

If you don't already do this, start a brown bag series where old and new devs can talk about their work; or just do hack sessions together. It'll help identify mutual strengths and weaknesses. And when the CEO sees your name on the emails going out on this, I guarantee it'll go well for you.

If after your best efforts to evolve, you find that your CEO and exec team is among the 90% who can't manage and execute growth and life becomes hell, all of which will become obvious soon enough, then you quit. But make sure as many as possible of those new employees have good memories of you before you do that.

[ochronus]

It's not only your problem. Growth is almost always painful. I'd suggest you view this as an opportunity on several levels and give it your best! You can help your company a _lot_. Try driving the change! Sit down and have discussions with the leadership team, start reading about organizational models (from classical ones to modern ones) - a good book: http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/ - the most important point is to get everyone conscious about the changes and acknowledge that it takes both time and deliberate effort! Handle it as you'd handle any longer project. Have milestones, action items, retrospectives about it! Phrase your goals (e.g. keeping or working out culture can be one of them). I also find that sitting down together and finding out what's important to you helps a lot - e.g. explicitly stating company-wide values or writing a manifesto. Don't panic :) Realize the power is in your hands also.

[kleer001]

>I realize that all of this is my problem

Congrats! This is true wisdom and maturity.

Dive into what you find uncomfortable, try to adopt (or at least foster) new perspectives. Maybe even talk to these new people and share your feelings with them. Luckily for you they're in the soft-skills craft and may have the tools you're looking for at this uncomfortable time.

Your best bet for harmony and comfort is to adapt to the change rather than adhere to old ways. Because, in the end, flexibility is life skill we all need.

[jimduk]

This is not just your problem. Every company that you work in has an implicit social contract (e.g. we're quirky, we're obsessed ..). Often over time the culture changes, and at some point you re-examine the social contract, realise it has changed and then underperform/ quit. [this was a massive issue in big outsourcing deals in the last 10-20 yrs where Company A would take over Company B's employees and then wonder why they became worse at doing the same job].

I would be constructively explicit early about the things you are uncomfortable about and try and articulate them to get a story going about what is changing. This way either you can adapt, or find out if others share your feelings, or you can decide if there's still a fit. Culture is key - once the culture (often the engineering culture) goes/radically changes, it signifies big changes ahead. Also - for the new people (PMs especially) - talk to them constructively to see if they can explain what they are bringing to the table, and also what they see as culturally valuable.

[mr_olive]

There's a whole (short) chapter on changes in "Peopleware" [1].

I've just skimmed through it, here are the key points I've found:

1) Change is not a single step. It involves several stages, one of them being chaos.

2) Chaos implies that things look worse than they used to be. People feel less comfortable and want to go back to old ways. Their reactions are emotional, not rational.

3) "You never improve if you can't change at all"

I recommend entire book. If you work in software business, I think you should know it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopleware:_Productive_Project...

[toyg]

Real authority is granted, not imposed. You and your team can have 15 managers above you, but in the end, if you just act like they don't matter, they will not matter.

On the other hand, if these people bring real usefulness to the table (for example by freeing you from stuff you'd rather not do, like dealing with whiny and confused clients etc), then you should accept them and let them contribute as peers.

The other side of the coin is that the company is growing and clearly someone felt it lacked in some areas. If you're interested in those areas (i.e. you want to step up into management), you have an opportunity to do so.

[ananthdeodhar]

Very well said and quite true! A managers job should be to facilitate, sadly many of them don't understand this, and breath down the developer's necks.

If you are one of those guys who gets the job done, then you shouldn't be giving a flying f* about the managers/HR, their job is to make things easier for you so that you can focus on your core areas of expertise, if that's not happening, you can and should talk to your founders/owners about your concerns.

Remember, you were there before these guys even came into the picture, and you are responsible for the growth of this company which is now even able to afford new people, and I am sure the company owners do realize that.

[brudgers]

Change is usually unsettling. It would be probably be worse if suddenly the company removed that many positions when having them was the normal.

That said, there are certain sizes at which organizational structure needs to undergo quantum change. Thresholds I've heard are ~10 [two pizzas], ~30, ~200. This means that some of the change when an organizational structure hits one of these is more or less permanent. That doesn't make it bad. Just permanent.

Good luck.

[hawski]

It seems that this numbers are connected to Dunbar's number[1] and that is related to i.e. military units organization[2].

In case of military units look at the end of page. Basic unit is squad (4-10 soldiers), next is platoon (3-4 squads/16-40 soldiers).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

[2] http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/oud/

[askafriend]

30 and 100 is a pretty substantial change organizationally.

[phamilton]

Do not be held hostage by anything other than money.

Demand for engineers is still so high right now that unless you have some form of golden handcuffs you will be better off leaving if you don't like your current situation.

[vinceyuan]

When there are managers, things will be complex and there will be politics in the office. (I was one of the first 10 people of my first employer. It went to 400 people.)

I don't have golden suggestions for you. If you are a developer, stay focused on coding. If it still drives you mad, go find a better company.

[zamalek]

I ran into something similar to this roughly 6 years ago (PM, PR, team leads etc.). I recognize your discomfort. It might take time, it might suck at times, but in the long run it will be for the better.

> I just want advice on how to keep things weird while growing.

That one was easy: get everyone that is new involved in the weirdness. Culture isn't strictly policy, it's people and it's your job to make sure that the culture doesn't die. Involve new people in the culture. If the new management gets in the way of the culture it is your responsibility to communicate that risk.

> The HR manager scares me, although I am not sure why.

Have lunch with them. That HR manager is more scared than you are. They are coming into a company with close friends and a culture that they have no idea about. Be inviting and friendly.

[ericclemmons]

Give it time. I've gone through several growth and downsizing periods. Each time the people change and, therefore, the culture.

Afterwards, everyone is kinda feeling out everyone else, both professionally and personally.

The culture usually comes back, in my experience, but with different twists and personalities.

Worst-case scenario, the job starts to feel like one, the joy gets less and less, and you end up looking for another one (of really any size) that had a culture that fits your personality.

You're taking a healthy approach to this already, so let it play out before you back out.

Good luck!

[hashkb]

Biased: just quit my job (hypergrowth conssidered harmful). There is such a thing as a lost cause; don't wait too long to bail. You are in demand.

[cantagi]

I've been in this situation twice before as a developer. The first time, the devs bought nerf guns and scooters to counter the new corporate atmpsphere, and the second time everyone who wasn't part of the corporate in-crowd got systematically excluded from social events, and various dogmatic "managers" got brought in, who were friends with the CEO.

If you can, you should talk to your colleagues and the people in charge, to convince them that the company needs to be kept awesome and weird, while growing. Maybe suggest Open Allocation - Github and Valve do it, and I know people who work within that kind of structure and really enjoy it.

Be extremely wary of lies and corporate doublespeak that some CEOs and HR people often use to convince you that they care about your company's atmposphere, when they really just want you shut up and work. I've witnessed that far too often.

[zhte415]

It sounds like key 'organisational' people are being put in place so the organisation can transiton to something bigger. This is a good thing, they're there to support you, as you're the core purpose of the organisation.

Take this as an opportunity for yourself. If you have worked in a corporate environment before, you're probably familiar with policies, documentation (not code, organisational), etc. If not, then don't worry.

This is you're chance to shape that from the start.

If you're the owner of a product or part of a product, you have a lot of leverage and power, just don't use it recklessly.

For example: I joined a company with no job descriptions. When the expansion came, I got to write my job description. My department (me) had no Statement of Purpose, so I wrote the Statement of Purpose.

We also had a training course on RACI (basically, a simple way whenever undertaking a task to make sure who is Responsible, Accountable, who should be Consulted, and who should be Informed). It's a simple idea, but well worth keeping in mind whenever doing something because an expansion means the amount of people that need to be 'in the know' changes (in my case, from casual chatting and word-of-mouth) to making sure things were documented in emails. It was different, but it helped.

The good thing is, you're in expansion mode. That means a lot of stuff can flow to you if communication well.

Don't appear self-conceited (not saying you are, just don't appear like that) by getting withdrawn. Given your company was small, the boss or VP is probably close, so let your ambition (be it a specialist, manager of a product or part of a product, etc) be known to them.

Things can stay casual and personal, but with more and more people, things will go wrong if issues don't get documented and followed-up more formally (from feature changes to un-communicated personal leave), simply as there's many more people who will be out-of-the-loop and uninformed of events.

The transition phase was the worse for me, as others just didn't get it. There'd be a face-to-face conversation I'd not be involved in, because others were used to the 'old way' and then things would escalate because someone key was out-of-the-loop and I'd get a question from the GM 'why was this not done?' It was a pain. But you can get through it sooner if you adapt sooner.]

[pasbesoin]

> The HR manager scares me, although I am not sure why.

I'll simply and very generally (so, don't take as advice, per se) say that you are not alone in this.

Generally speaking, HR works for the C suite, not you. Always. And, in my experience, the kind of people who tend to populate HR are much more about "resources" than "humans".

In particular, if you don't fit the convenient box they have in mind... you are a problem. The only question then is whether you are a problem they have to deal with now or accumulate "evidence" against for some anticipated future use.