Ask HN: I don't like my new job, now what?

[orangepenguin]

Six months ago, I took a new job as a developer. I expected to feel like an outsider for a while. No new job is "comfortable". However, I started to notice that my team is really abrasive. They're always correcting everything, job related or not (how to write code, best way to cook something, reasons for economic changes, etc). I make some comment about the world and get a response like "Well, if you'd studied [such and such] you'd know that... [why you're wrong]". Many of these things are opinion-based anyway. Despite the fact that I bring the most external experience, the guys I work with on a daily basis act like they are trying to teach me how to program. It's really demeaning.

What should I do? (What CAN I do?)

I've debated talking to my manager about these concerns, but I don't know that there's any way he could address the issues--he can't change the personalities of my team members. Still, I feel he deserves a chance.

Should I just quit and go somewhere else? It feels like doing so would make my resume look pretty bad since it hasn't been long. Also, it seems like I owe something to this company for giving me a job and good pay.

Are there other ways I can address this?

[ericzawo]

Wanna get back to them and show them they ain't shit? Be profoundly, intolerably nice to them especially when they 'correct' you. "oh, I didn't know that! Thanks! Any books specifically you could recommend on (x subject in the news that's really their hot take)?"

Then, at month 10-11 of working there, begin looking for a new job immediately.

[dimgl]

I can also confirm that this is the correct approach to take. Be unequivocally nice to them and go along with their charade. Don't let them get under your skin and things may improve.

[glenbo]

I must agree. For what it's worth, at a previous job, I remember observing a real shift in my team's personalities after a few months. Negativity can be really contagious, and it's possible that an unshakably positive force (you) may be the cause of a greater shift.

Might be worth a shot.

[drinchev]

I totally disagree. Jerk developer is always a jerk developer. Something more ... I think jerk developers are bad persons. Those are the racists guys/girls, the hotshots, the abusing coworkers people. The problem is in them ... It's not in the OP.

There is no reason for anyone in this world to tell somebody is wrong in a non-polite way . Period.

If you wanna "get back to them" you already failed. The best way that you can solve this is to find a place that doesn't allow people like this to be involved in the business.

[dpark]

I cannot imagine doing this without coming off as a condescending ass. And "intolerably nice" sounds like a political way of calling someone phony. I would hope no one would ever call me that.

Sticking with a toxic job for a year also seems pointless. Hopping jobs constantly looks bad, but leaving one job quickly isn't a red flag if there is a reasonable track record on the resume.

[namelezz]

I don't think this is a good behavior. I think knowledge sharing is good. What if everyone keeps everything to themselves.

[gargravarr]

I'll just add my $0.02 and say that sticking a job for a year is not necessary. I quit my first job shortly after I passed my probation - it was my first job out of university, and whilst the people weren't toxic, the work was, and the commute was hell like I have never encountered before. Right after I passed my probation things actually got worse, because then (as is normal in the UK) I had a 1-month notice period. I needed money to start paying my student loans so I'd stuck with the awful job, but once the first 3 months were up, I fell into depression. It was an extremely bleak period in my life. I was able to pull my boss to one side and talked to him at great length about the work I was doing, that I didn't feel I was contributing anything meaningful, that I was wasting my time in the job. He empathised, but there was little we could do to improve things. I looked at moving teams, but nothing appealed. We came to conclusion that the company and me were mutually incompatible. Shortly thereafter, I handed in my notice. I left at the 5-month mark.

About 6 months later, when I was feeling better, I interviewed for a job closer to home. When asked about why I was only at my first job for 5 months, I answered that I left for personal reasons. The matter wasn't pushed, but I later felt like I'd blown it. Much to my surprise, I got an offer, and a good one. I'm still at this company 2 and a half years later.

My conclusion is that no job is ever worth staying in if you don't feel like you're doing anything meaningful. If I'd tried to stick my first job for a full year, I would have topped myself. I couldn't stand working like that. I discussed the faults of my old job with my new colleagues after I started here and they understood.

As long as you're not hopping jobs every few months, you should be able to convince your interviewer it was a one-off. Don't worry about trying to work a full year in a toxic environment. Move on if you need to. At the end of the day, you can put a spin on your resume, but you can't spin your personal satisfaction with your job.

[kenesom1]

If you think the situation is unlikely to improve, line up a better job and then quit. You don't have to tolerate a dysfunctional team. It won't affect your resume or job prospects and joining a better team will enhance your career.

[nailer]

+1 Also next time do some due diligence and check glassdoor.com: every company has a few people who didn't fit in, but if Glassdoor is pages and pages of people talking about how dysfunctional the company is, or how bad the culture is, then you can expect it to be accurate.

[andrewshatnyy]

I might be wrong, but it looks to me you lack confidence. Every time that happens do anything outside of your comfort zone. In professional context: Learn a new programming language, get familiar with a new framework, study fundamental CS. In social context: Go out more, talk to ladies if you're guy, talk to boys if you're girl.

I sense in your case you're dealing with passioned/opinionated people and you should take constructive criticism and advance yourself. But don't take shit from them.

Have your own opinion on things even if it's not the right one. I love reasonably opinionated conversations because I can learn new from those if I am wrong or incompetent in certain areas.

In the end you don't owe them anything and they don't owe you anything (aside from money).

Think of your job as a process of you helping the company with your talent and time. Move on if it's not fun for you and you don't learn anything new.

[orangepenguin]

I really appreciate your feedback. I don't lack confidence, and happily accept constructive comments from my coworkers. The thing I'm having trouble with is my coworkers treating me like I'm inexperienced and untrained (both untrue). They want me to always trust everything they say without question, but don't want to give my suggestions any consideration. If I discover I'm wrong, I readily admit this and adopt the correct thinking. If they're wrong, they belittle me.

What I like about your comment is that it reminds me that I don't need to get bent out of shape about my coworkers problems. If they aren't good at accepting feedback, they're the ones who aren't learning and growing. I can just keep on progressing on my own until I find an opportunity to work somewhere with a more healthy environment.

[freakono]

This type of personalities are common in the tech world. Get used to it. Don't let it rock your boat. Do your job, do it the way your superiors want it done(no matter how you prefer to do it). If they want their eggs scrambbled, make them scrambbled, if they want them overeasy, make them overweasy. The customer is always right because they pay you to do it the way they want it. No need to bring your personal opinions into the work place. If it's too uncomfortable, like someone else said here, tough it out for a year then make a move.

[cookiecaper]

I upvoted you, because I think this is useful advice to some extent. A lot of people go into programming because they want to be objectively right all the time and they can't handle extended interpersonal dealings. Programming gives them those opportunities; the compiler makes a binary decision about whether your code is "right" or "wrong", and they can always shut people out by saying they have to work on code. As such, difficult personalities are very common in corporate IT. You can't leave every job over it. Gotta suck it up and just learn to get work done while avoiding your co-workers' triggers unless you know the problem is truly extreme in your workplace.

[jazzyk]

I did not downvote you (because you provide a POV relevant to the story), but this is one terrible piece of advice. Many years ago, I was in a situation similar to the OP, and after a year or so, I was on the verge of a depression (which I did not realize it by then).

To the OP: leave as soon as you can. There are good places to work out there.

[likerofnews]

Unfortunately, it sounds like this job isn't a fit for you. I was in the same position 2 years ago when I joined a company, and four months in, I dreaded going to work everyday. The CTO liked to mock competitors with young CEOs, the product manager and eng manager I worked with were racist against Latinos, and the senior eng team had a dogmatic view on writing software. Needless to say, I lined up another job and left. It was the best decision I ever made. Now I'm surrounded by open-minded, supportive, and creative individuals.

[sjs382]

Life is too short to stress about how leaving an unhappy situation will affect how people will view you professionally—just do it.

[jacquesm]

I was a rookie programmer thinking I was hot shit for a bank a long time ago and the 'old hands' were pretty much like you describe.

But they were right and it took me a while to appreciate this. Even so after two years I left my job to start my first company but the experience gained over those two years was worth gold later on and the combined knowledge of those people was immense.

I'd suggest you take a different attitude for a bit, assume they are really trying to teach you, engage them and eat up as much of their time as they're willing to give to educate you. Then, when you've really absorbed all there is to be absorbed (that could be today, I can't tell from your description) look for another place where you again can learn a lot. That's the best reason to change employers: that you've reached a plateau in what you can learn on that job.

[kelukelugames]

I was in the same boat a year ago. Started a job in June 2014, thought about leaving in July, and started prepping for interviews in October. I did the bare minimum and studied for interviews everyday. My boss even caught me working on leetcode during a meeting. I had to host a couple of team morale events to avoid suspicion.

I also annoyed management by trying to start a salary spreadsheet. That was fun.

I stayed till August 2015 because of the 1 year thing and for a whopping $5,000 worth of options. But after I jumped, I discovered that a lot of people leave bad jobs within a year. I think it's okay as long as you don't do it more than once.

Lastly, would you trust someone you barely know? I wouldn't. Don't talk to your manager.

tl:dr

1. Life is short and software market is hot.

2. Get ready to leave but don't make it too obvious. ;)

[covati]

That manager advice sound horrible. That is the point of a manager. If you can't trust them with something as basic and important as team interactions, then there is a bigger problem.

[devnonymous]

After many years and many jobs i've bought into this philosophy - good work environment, good work and good pay; 3 out of 3 is ideal, 2 out of the 3 is minimum. If you can't get at least 2 out of those 3, just quit. Don't worry about how it would look on your resume. If you know your stuff there will always be places who will accept 'toxic work environment' as a reasonable explanation for quitting a job. In fact, if you are going to use that excuse, it is better that you quit now rather than a year from now to avoid answering the question 'if it was so bad, why did you stick around for over a year? '

[patorjk]

Leave. You will not be able to change the personalities of those you work with and going above their heads to complain will not put you in a better position (unless doing so could move you to another team). One job stint at 6 months will not hurt you. I would argue your work environment is the most important part of your job. You spend a lot of your waking hours with these people, you don't want to be miserable.

[pawelkomarnicki]

From my personal experience, I can say that such teams are toxic and you have 2 options: 1) don't say anything publicly, just focus on the work, and 2) leave. If the company has a huge turnover (like the one I worked at), nobody will say anything about leaving quickly. Just be confident, you cannot lower your value as a developer and human being just to fit some bad, toxic place.

[drinchev]

I've always had this scenario in my head ... Here is what I think you should do :

1. Tell your boss you quit, because of the facts you point here. Tell your co-workers you quit, because you are not satisfied with the job. ( You will have done the best thing for the company if you do that ).

2. Find a new job/work and don't talk about why you quit your previous job in details. Just tell your new boss : "Well I wasn't satisfied with the team. I didn't have a chance to be valuable, because of their closed-culture. They didn't want anything more from me than being a non-thinking programmer.". Trust me, he will like this. If he doesn't you will end up in the same company

3. In between ... start working on an open source project with good reputation to gain back your confidence ( if you've lost something out of your job ). Even one Merged pull request is a big deal in those moments.

If all of this doesn't work. Let me know. I'm living in Berlin and I think I can find something for you if you want to relocate.

[beeboop]

If a job candidate told me their previous team had a closed-culture and was unappreciative of their talents I would think it was the candidate who was difficult and thought too highly of himself.

I would simply stick the lines of "The work they had me doing wasn't where my strengths really were. I think there was some miscommunication during the hiring process as to what the job really entailed". All of which is true in OP's case - it wasn't communicated to him how incompatible he would be with his team and he's not going to perform his best work there. This method doesn't place blame on anyone (important) and doesn't make you sound difficult or overly particular.

[it_learnses]

Yep get another job offer and leave. If they try to convince you to stay with a higher pay or something, don't take it because they will let you go as soon as they get a chance anyway.

You can mention in your exit interview that your manager was nice and you were leaving due to a dysfunctional team if you want.

[la6470]

Staying there for a whole year will kill your soul

Anyway that's gonna happen as you grow up

[treebeard901]

In my opinion, you should only go to your manager if it has an effect on your work. Even then it's rare. Since you're the new guy and the others have presumably been there for a while... You will find it difficult to make your case. You risk running up against the trope of not being a 'team player'.

Honestly what you described does not sound that bad. You should think about other similar situations in your past that you have had with other people and try to see if you have a pattern of needing to be right. It is entirely possible you are externalizing some fault in your own personality.

Regardless, look at it as a learning opportunity. If you can't handle the various personalities in the world without it effecting you on a personal level, you're going to have a tough time.

[orangepenguin]

Very good comments. What I failed to mention in my original post was that I feel that the discussions are really one-sided. My co-workers expect me to listen to and do everything they say, and don't want to hear any suggestions from me. I'm fine with other people considering my suggestions and then deciding against them. I'm not okay with coworkers who just reject my ideas because they came from the new guy.

I do think you're right about tolerating different personalities, and about talking to a manager. I'll tread carefully.

[debacle]

It's a job-shoppers' market right now. Six months is a fine time to work in a caustic environment. Explain yourself clearly and it wont matter at all.

[techcode]

Always? Everything?

There's not even one example where they reacted in a "nice way"?

Seems you haven't told them how such thing make you feel?

Maybe it's not personality, and perhaps they don't know this stuff is bothering you...

Definitely talk to your manager, and try talking to your team as well.

Focus on observations/examples as well as how those situations make you feel.

I agree that life is too short, and IT is full of "difficult" people. Instead of running away from it, get better in dealing with them.

[orangepenguin]

You're right. I did misrepresent the situation. I've had quite a few positive experiences there too. Some of the best feedback I've gotten from this thread is that I should be looking at my own behavior and considering whether or not I'm doing my part to learn and be friendly to work with. I still may consider a job change in time, but I should be careful about where I place blame and what accusations I throw around.

[yanilkr]

In many cases, if you are a new person, other people are still testing boundaries. I had a similar experience before. I sarcastically asked a co-worker if he has been an asshole all his life or just today because of the weather. That set things right that one time.

There is a first time to everything. If you move away, you are moving away from an opportunity to deal with things you never dealt with before. Your job is not so precious as you think. Try different approaches, be confrontational when you want to be, you don't have to be nice anymore, try to overcome this and you would be a much better person for yourself and others. Why do you have to be the one that goes to the manager, why cant you send your colleagues to the manager? Your manager might trust you more if you learn to deal with situations yourself.

It is possible some of my advice might seem "bad or condescending" but who cares I said what I wanted to say.

I happened to watch this old Andy Griffith show, it might be relevant. https://vimeo.com/66146806

[JoeAltmaier]

Leave. Explain the resume issue: "It was a toxic working environment".

[metasean]

a) As described, it isn't a "toxic environment". My previous job the boss would go on verbal and physical tirades almost daily (cursing loud enough to be heard through multiple walls, throwing hardware, ripping a door off its hinges, etc). Meanwhile, in one job, my mother had a boss made them work through a breakdown of the A/C. Their office temperatures were exceeding 100 degrees and most of the full-time staff were over 50 years old. This ultimately led to that boss' death at her own desk. Those are "toxic environments". As the OP described their situation, the environment is certainly not supportive, and is uncomfortable and demoralizing, but it doesn't sound like their physical welfare is in jeopardy, so it shouldn't be called 'toxic'.

b) As cookiecaper indicated, you should focus on the positives of the job you're interviewing for, not the negatives of the current job. For example, "I'm looking for a more respectful and collegial work environment that supports mutual skill development." The interviewer may take that as "this person is coming from an unsupportive environment" but it could also be taken as "this person is coming from a so-so, hum-drum environment and simply wants a better environment."

[cookiecaper]

It's best not to get into that. Just say "it just wasn't the type of culture I expected". As they ask you to explain, make sure your responses are tempered. Explain the issues, as the potential employer understands you're leaving your current employer because you don't like something about them, but do it gently. Using harsh language about your former employer in an interview turns people off, because they imagine you saying it about them if the job doesn't work out for some reason.