Ask HN: I am 30yrs and never had a full time job, now suicidal. Any life advice?

[tevlon]

Hi Hackernews,

i am seeking for life advice. Right now, i don't know what i should do with my life. I feel trapped. Forgotten. Not part of society. And the part that worries me the most : i have become suicidal.

Context :

I am almost 30 years old. I studied Bioinformatics, still doing my masters. That is one of the main reasons i never worked. It took me 10 years to study and i feel my life doesn't progress, while others buying cars or getting married. Even though i only have to attend 3 more exams, with my current depression, it feels sooo hard to even pass one of them. The reason it took me so long was, that i had to work next to my studies. I am broke as hell, in fact, i have a debts of 20000€. I am based in germany. I applied for 20 jobs so far. Already got 4 rejections.

I feel unwanted and even though germany has a social security net .. i imagined my life not to be so bad.

I feel like, i can never "start a life", because i studied so long and no one wants a quitter .. at least in germany. I don't know what to do. I am in a unhappy place and i can't get out :(

[Lordarminius]

You are almost 30 years old, will soon have a masters degree from a university in a first world nation, have worked several jobs on apart-time basis and do not have a wife whom you do not love, or kids you can not support to tie you down. You owe a miserly Euro20k in debt which you can quite easily pay off ( for instance by not buying a car in the next 1.5 yrs).

You are young full of promise, healthy and educated. You are determined and hard working and only going through a temporary (and normal)period of self doubt.

I'd say you are not in a bad place.

Edit

1. You should see a therapist to check you out for depression as someone as pointed out.

2. Keep on applying for jobs. 4 rejections is nothing.

3. Be thankful you live in this era, the greatest time to be alive .

[Balgair]

On 2.

Yeah, 4 rejections is nothing really. Remember, even in Germany, companies are run mostly by very busy people that have bad moods and not enough sugar in their coffee when they review your application. They may have lost a contract and no longer have money for the job, they may be racist asshats or smug know-nothings, there are a billion legit reasons, and a trillion stupid ones. I know it seems so very personal to you to get rejected, but there are millions of jobs in Germany that you can do still and need someone to do them. You WILL find a job, and it may take a LONG time, but you'll be a lot happier and better off when you find the RIGHT job for you. A lot of it is luck, but if you keep applying, eventually you'll hit the jackpot. If it helps, I applied for 2000+ jobs in ~2009 before getting a single email back, and I found a job that I loved and was a good fit for. So, it does happen, even if it sucks right now.

[jason_slack]

great advice! Thank you for saying this clearly.

[android521]

well said

[stefanos82]

Hmm, let's see mate...

I'm 34 years old, with a stupid Computer Science diploma that worths absolutely nothing, unemployed since July 2015, forced to live with my parents as I have no other choice, I'm totally broke, not married, no kids, no one is hiring me because I have experience as a technician and as assistant systems administrator (thanks "cloud" for making me completely unnecessary), and I owe more than 200,000 euros in debt.

Am I suicidal? Nope. Should I have been? ...why? :/

The point is mate, most of the times we are forced to do things that go against our will or our dreams.

Right now I feel stuck as you, I have no one by my side, not a single friend and I mean it when I say not a single one, but you see the point is to enjoy something you have that others lack.

What I often do is to browse on YouTube and seek for motivation. I look for people with disabilities or whatsoever that thirst for life and are always positive.

If I was born able-bodied, why not appreciate it with all my heart and embrace this given gift and hope for a better day?

We fall, we rise, and that's how life is mate.

If you need to chat, I'm here.

Keep your head up, safe your dignity and your pride, and move forward.

Life is short, enjoy it now you can.

Cheers.

[personlurking]

I'm also mid-30s, no degree, still no career, employed part-time, barely scrape by w/ nothing in the bank, not married, no kids, extremely few friends (in other countries), still trying to figure out what my skills are.

I'm not suicidal per se (don't think I'd ever attempt it), but I do wonder why I'm here, in the larger sense. If it weren't for my undying love of learning and of the examined life, I'd have gone off the deep end decades ago.

Think of depression as a cloudy sky, whether that's Portugal cloudy or London cloudy, the point is to remember the sky is not actually cloudy, it's forever blue, you just can't see it at the moment. Keep looking, you will.

[DanBC]

Thoughts of suicide are a medical emergency, and you deserve medical treatment.

https://www.suizidprophylaxe.de/hilfsangebote/

Immediate help is available around the clock at the telephone counseling under the nation-wide free phone number 0800 - 111 0 111 or 0800 - 111 0 222 and in the Internet under www.telefonseelsorge.de

Sofortige Hilfe erhalten Sie rund um die Uhr bei der Telefonseelsorge unter der bundeseinheitlichen kostenlosen Rufnummer 0800 - 111 0 111 oder 0800 - 111 0 222 und im Internet unter www.telefonseelsorge.de

[ghuntley]

Hi Tevlon;

Talking about this type of stuff is okay. You took a chance in writing this up and no doubt it took a lot of effort. Please don't be embarrassed. You have taken the right first step.

If you want a way to self-measure/reflect on how you got to this place, then please read https://opensource.com/business/15/12/avoid-burnout-live-hap... but unfortunately in your current position/state it's not going to be possible to be self-aware/objective. The internet isn't the right avenue and this isn't the first time you have brought up this topic [1]

PLEASE start listening to yourself and make the change you need in your life happen by picking up the phone and seeking medical advice. If they don't handle this matter with respect, care and compassion needed, then fuck those guys. Pick up the phone again and find someone who will listen and that wants to help you get through this. You got this; if you can ask a bunch of strangers for help then you can ask a medical professional. No excuses. Asking a bunch of strangers for help without anonymity takes guts.

Burnout is often difficult for some to self-diagnose (typically as they always find other reasons to justify their symptoms) but the good news is when you have experienced burnout; you can often see it in other people. When you do, you should step in and help. Get through this, then you can help others because you have been there and can recognise the signs.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=tevlon

[david927]

You really need to seek out a therapist. I don't know the expense of that in Germany but it can be life-changing.

It sounds to me that you might be depressed. The thing about depression is that it's possible to manage -- but you have to reach out. You've posted this, and that's a good first step, but now you need to tell a professional.

Personally there were many times when life was quite bleak and it all felt like a dead-end. I think that with a little help, you can move past this point, and later you will look back at it and be glad you did.

[juliancox]

Exercise! It's been repeatedly shown to be a huge contributor to mental health (as well as physical). Take a walk in a park, ride a bike, go jogging or have a swim. All are cheap to do. Start slow if you're not fit, but make time for it every day (at least half an hour). It's more important than almost anything else you might want to do more. And definitely get help for your suicidal thoughts.

[rdlecler1]

I was in a similar situation. Graduated with a PhD in computational biology in 2009. Applied for hundreds of jobs. No one was hiring. I was 36 years old, in debt, with no work experience, and I missed my window to get work experience and I've been unhireable ever since.

First get some help, there's medication that can help with anxiety. Right now you're in a death spiral: You can't sleep which causing stress, which is causing you to loose sleep. Some medication will calm you down enough where you can start to get a grip back on reality. This dread you are feeling is stress induced so you need to deal with that first.

Second, you want to think about finding a lifeline, something to give you some stability. You don't need to shoot for the stars on a dream job right now. Maybe that includes doing some lab-assistant work at the university. See what kinds of clubs there are in your school, maybe consulting clubs or investment banking clubs, or entrepreneur clubs.

$20,000 may feel like a lot of debt, but many Americans have hundreds of thousands in debt when they graduate. Just make sure you dial back and live under your means.

Finally, you still have time on your side. I didn't start my PhD until I was 30 and while I felt my life was over at 36 when I graduated and I resented the years off sacrifice for no payoff, there are opportunities out there. I took a very low paying job to get back on my feet, and eventually I founded a startup that has had some minor success so far. What'a important to turning the corner is to find a ray of hope. If you can do that, whatever you're going through today doesn't feel that bad.

From all of this I also met my wonderful wife and I can't imagine my life without her. I would have ever met if life had 'worked out' as I had planned. Sometimes these hard roads bring you to the place you really need to be. Stick with it and I promise you that you'lol get back to being in a good place. This is just like having a cold or the flu. It will pass.

[pedalpete]

As everybody has said, go seek professional help. You should have 0 shame about this. In the last year, I've discovered that some of my co-workers and friends I most admire have struggled with depression. It is probably more common than you think.

I also think I may be able to relate to your situation of being 30 without a career.

When I turned 30 I wasn't working. I thought I was taking a few months off, but couldn't get back into the work force. I was unemployed for almost 2 years, taking the odd job I could and volunteering (which I recommend).

I hadn't discovered programming or product management (truly) yet, which would become my profession by my mid-thirties. Ten years on, I work for a leading research agency, surrounded by amazing and brilliant co-workers and get to learn and experience more every day.

So, my point is, many people are just getting on the path at 30. You're not the only one, and I felt the same way you did at the time. I felt I was lost, I sought help. It was terrifying to think that I was left behind, that this is all my life would be.

The rejections from jobs you want can hurt, I know that, and each rejection gets more painful, and more scary.

I don't believe I have any contacts in Germany, though I could be wrong. Feel free to add me on linkedin (my name is same as my username here) and I'd be happy to help where with connections if I can.

PS, though 20000€ may seem a massive insurmountable amount, and it is a large chunk, you can pay that down in a few years if you're careful.

All is not lost, and this test will make you stronger. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

[lignux]

You literally have your whole life ahead of you, you didn't miss nothing.

Whats the rush? You will get married, get a job, buy a house, have a career and all that its not like you are 80.

Its all in the head just change something, start going to the gym, get out more often, anything really that you have not been doing.

And also on what metrics your life isn't progressing? You don't have a job because you chose to study and you feel behind your peers? There's time for that and for everything as i said previously. Think about it.

Chin up.

EDIT: Typos

[tixocloud]

Hi Tevlon,

You're actually a very fortunate person and regardless of your circumstances, you have the ability to get out of it all and still feel happy. You're also an important individual with a mission to fulfill.

Similar to you, I also was in a financial struggle. I often looked to others and questioned why me - I had a full time job, I was studying for my Masters and I also had to manage our family mortgage.

The fact that you're doing your Masters already shows what a well accomplished academic you are. Not many people can say that they have the good fortune to study or have the ability to get as far as you so congratulations.

I'd be happy to chat with you further about my experience getting over my financial difficulties but the bottom line is as you continue to persevere, you will be able to break through everything! And I mean everything! I also sought a lot of encouragement from Buddhism and kept my spirits up with people's experiences.

I applied to hundred plus jobs and had about 90 rejections but honestly, it doesn't matter because all you need is just that 1 employer to accept you. And funny as it is, it will be the right job for you.

Cheers. You have a magnificent life ahead of you. What you're going through now will only create a strong foundation for who you're going to be in the future.

[alanz1223]

My grandpa had to eat crackers and bread for most of his lifetime in Argentina and he didn't find success until his late 40s as a farmer... Said suicide was the easiest path but after suffering for too long it'd be like training for war and surrendering when you hear the drums.

[Raed667]

20 job applications and 4 rejections are NOTHING!

I know each application/rejection drains you emotionally, but be ready to multiply that number by 10 in order to get a few decent interviews. The key to survival is "detachment".

(From personal experience, and feedback of my friends)

[marcoscleison]

Hi, I read your comment with pain. I know what is to spend 10 year in lab and does not have house, nor car etc. However I would like to advice you to:

1) Forgive yourself. When we are in problems we tends to put the guilt in ourselves. However, even if this was true, we can forgive ourselves.

2) List you skills. Go ahead without afraid and knock door asking job. Do not worry about the "NO", but worry to keep calm and search again.

3) If you do not get the ideal Job, seek jobs in such manner you get some money to pay you bills.

4) Be thankful for what you have. I can say that because you are in Germany. If you were in Brazil (I am from Brazil) or in Siria, the thing was really bad. For example, we are worry because our water is finishing. Do you have water? If yes, be thankful, because our water is finishing. Here in northeast Brazil there are months without rains. I think that more one or two months our cows will die without water. Is vary sad when you have cows and see them asking water feeling the death near. Here in Brazil, many Phd are jobless, because of corruption (of politics), the projects were canceled. Today I am working hard as programmer to have some budget, now I have only $4 in my bank account. My mother and my mother in law are feeding me for a while. I cannot go out Brazil because the visa is not easy and cheap. You can go out Gemmany, you have all the EU to go, but I cannot do that.

5) Sincerely, I would like to help you. But the situation does not allow. However I would like to recommends that if you feel alone, search a friend. Speak about the situation and put all bad feeling out. Recharge yourself and go fight.

6) Try to sleep well.

7) Try to get some solar light to improve you D vitamin.

8) Make physical activities.

9) Drink water (water is like gold) and not alcohol (alcohol will make you sad).

10) Go out home and help a street children, an old person.

11) If you have strong suicidal thinking, please, search some help. There are professionals that will help and you will see the life great again.

Finally, excuse my English. Please, if I write something and you misunderstand forgive me. I am willing to help as I can.

Go ahead. You will reach.

[cprayingmantis]

Let me just emphasize that you need to get professional help. I had been dealing with some stuff and I started getting some professional help and it's amazing the difference just dissecting your problems in a constructive environment does.

As for your job situation I'd mirror what dbg31415 said. Keep your chin up. Just to make you feel a little bit better let me share what I went through when first looking for a job. I applied for 120 positions when I started and only 3 got back to me and 2 wanted to hire me. I took an internship and worked up from there. I made connections and used those to branch out.

[0hn0]

1. Try to get ANY job, even not related with your study. Never stop to looking for a new job.

2. Work with people, be with people, help them.

3. Fall in love, get married, have a baby.

4. Go to a psychotherapist or go to support group meetings.

5. Go to a church. God wants to help you but you have to ask Him first. Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, God helps atheists too.

[ramtatatam]

Hi, I was in similar situation (though no suicidal thoughts) and can advice a few things:

1) you had a plan when you started your studies - any plan requires consequence and you are the only one who can consequently execute your plan. So don't give up when there's only 100 meters away from finish! Last 100 meters always feels worst but look back at whole marathon you are just finishing!

2) don't worry about job hunting, your end result will greatly depend on luck and how you structure your CV. In your situation any work-related experience (even if it was scientific coop, volunteering or teaching) is useful and everything depends on how you put this together. I can help with your CV (though I don't speak German, I can share nice video about CV writing)

3) you are under strong emotions now and obviously you are aware that any decision made under emotions is a bad decision. Step back, have a break, have a sleep, have ice cream, have chocolate, watch sci-fi movie from 70's, play a computer game, do whatever helps you relax. Focus since you are close achieving your goal!

4) this is not a big dept, you will pay it back in no time once you get a job (and you will get one, that is with no doubt since German economy is the strongest in Europe)

[ninedays]

Hi there,

my better half is finishing her PhD in biology and is now 31. She is still a student and has the exact same fear that you have.

All of our friends all have bought a house and are starting to have kids (a friend of mine already have 3) while we are both of us on one salary while she finishes her PhD.

This is a normal feeling. The fact that you don't have any job experience makes it scary for you as you feel you haven't been participating in society like most people around you do.

It is normal to experience several rejections before being accepted - we all have this issue.

I think that the biggest issue on your side is the fact that you feel old. Older than the rest of the people around you who are "advancing in life" and you feel you are not.

I will say : don't worry too much about it.

If you are competent enough (and I am sure you are), you will face several rejections before being accepted in a position and everything will start to unlock from there. Sure you have some debts but most of us do too and we are all doing fine.

Try to expand the companies you are reaching to include smaller or bigger companies depending on what you feel is the right environment for you.

Sorry for any mistakes as english is not my native language.

Take care and stay strong, you'll see that everything will start to unlock soon.

Edit : also, what you feel right now will make you more experienced and, later, you could take advantage of having lived this to prevent others from happening. I feel confident for you and I am sure in the end, you will enjoy your life like you should.

[eecks]

Sorry to hear that. It's easy to look at other people's lives and become envious but you are seeing the ideal part of their lives. The parts they want to expose. Everyone has their own problems - this does not belittle your problems but you have to understand it.

I think you are not in a bad position in life. Comparing you to myself you are more educated in a really interesting field and you are probably a lot smarter. You speak two languages perfectly and you have worked which was more than I had when I got my first job.

20k of debt is not too bad. When you do start working, you will be able to put money towards paying that off and it will be gone in two years if you're able to budget correctly.

I doubt my reply will really help you though. You need to power through this depression and pass your exams. You will eventually get a job and then you will look back and think "well done self, I did it".

[throwbsidbdk]

I just got my masters a few years back, also close to 30, and had a similar experience. as in, I went through a period of applying for jobs for months. Hundreds. I got phone screens from maybe 15. Got second stage phone interviews from 10 or so.

Eventually I had 3 on-site interviews lined up, all with companies I loved in positions that matched my skills. Success seemed guaranteed!

I was rejected from all of them. Crushed. Scared. I had to ramp up applying again and go through the same 3 stage interview process all over. On top of that, I was running out of money. Actually, running out of credit cards was more accurate.

At this point I had been out of work for months. I had graduated school and immediately moved to a hot market, thinking I could land a good job right away. Now I had no money and a three month gap in work history, and no support system to fall back on within 1000 miles.

I started driving for Uber. The only job I could think of that wouldnt look bad. It sucked. I had a ton of student loan debt, a masters, and I was doing a job you can do without graduating highschool.

Eventually I got another round of three on site interviews setup.

In my second round of interviews I got an offer from all three. What changed? No clue. In the depressing down time I got some cool stuff on GitHub, spent an inordinate amount of time making my resume perfect, and studied lists of stupid cs interview questions for days. Going through so many interviews also taught me how to interview to some extent.

It was still a crap shoot and everybody goes through the same unless you've got something like Harvard on your resume.

It's gonna suck but you can do it. It will probably take 50-200 applications to land your first job. It's mostly a numbers game.

At my last company I was part of the hiring process occasionally. About 100 people would apply to one position. 15-20 would have the desired skills and experience listed on the resume. 5 of those would pass the phone screen questions. All of those would come in for an interview and we hired one.

It's a personal example but I feel like it's a pretty average hiring process. From there you can figure out your own odds average case. So on average to get a job: apply to 100 places, get 15 phone screens, around 5 on sites. At this point 50% of the average candidate would get hired.

Keep strong, once you land something this will be behind you

[joeclark77]

If doing the ordinary and correct things is leading you to despair, then try something adventurous and radical: sail the ocean, climb a mountain, become a monk... use your imagination!

(Here's a secret: ten years from now, no one will know or care whether you have that master's degree or not.)