As Graphic Art's student, I'm curious if there are any developers with art history here - what's your stories, and how do you apply your artistic knowledge and skills to IT work?
BFA student turned full stack developer here. I wanted to actually share WHY artists can really excel in this space, both positive and negative:
1. We've been trained to critique, and communicate issues constructively. This is absolutely essential to working quickly, the sooner you realize there is an existential problem with what you're doing, the sooner you can work through them. I've become an absolute user story master because of what I learned at art school.
2. Self management, I prefer to work alone because I get the best work done when I can juggle and understand all the variables of the task. This forces me to be adept at a lot of different things but also means that as a developer you can pretty much leave me alone unless I really suck at something.
3. Asking why all the time, critiquing is one thing but the worst experiences I've had are when other developers say things like "It's always been like this". For example, I came into a shop where their build process had an SCSS linter that would error if anyone tried to use a color that wasn't a variable. This ended up creating the habit of a single stylesheet with around 200 slight adjustments of colors. Critical thinking is whats important for building systems with low technical debt, and I think artists are able to realize something is turning into technical debt much quicker than their engineer counterparts.
The tradeoff is that I have a huge communication gap with traditional computer scientists, I really have to work and study algorithms on my spare time and I still struggle heavily with mathematical notations.
Ah yeah, the critiquing aspect is spot on. In my first programming job, my supervisor would try to be as gentle as possible in telling me why my code was wrong. I had to essentially say "dude, just tell me my code sucks and then tell my why!" I didn't realize how thick of a skin I have due to my arts background.
I have a BFA in Glass Sculpture and am now a full stack dev and business owner.
I agree with the points here but would like to add one thing. "The Creative Process". In learning how to create successful art work, you discover and become entrenched in this.
You learn how to take an idea and move it through phases of conception, sketching, planning, material/media choice and collection, prototyping, iteration, critique/feedback, execution, refinement, polish, installation, transporting, storage, transaction, and sometimes defense of concept.
All of these processes are part of making art. To developers, some of this may sound familiar!
An appreciation of process and an understanding that every action and choice is part of that process can attribute to success in development. Artists who enjoy the creative process are likely to succeed in other disciplines which require extensive processes.
The understanding with most art is that it takes several rounds of critique for a piece to even be complete, much less for an artist to reach their overall potential. And it's considered an honor to receive criticism from someone whose work you admire.
Similarly, self-management is completely necessary if you're completing something long-term, like a novel. Scrappiness, too -- it's very often the case that you have to skip around the gatekeepers to reach an audience for the first time.
I'd also add that there's a certain strange cognitive advantage. A lot of art is built on taking concepts from one situation and applying them somewhere foreign -- translating the feeling of loss into a series of musical notes, or applying the principles of the punk rock movement to dance.
I know it sounds like bullshit to a lot of hackers. But that trick, of abstracting away the details of problems so that their solutions can be used in isomorphic situations, is very handy in computer science.
I met a master of music once, he did mainly math and algorithms at his current job.
He said, he didn't think this would go hand in hand, but after he saw some algorithm stuff from a friend he was surprised how easy it was, so he switched from composing to coding algos.
I can definitely relate here. I've got a BA in music and an art minor, and am currently going back for an MS in Information Technology. I feel like the background in Art helps me grok abstraction quickly, but I have trouble when it gets down into the quantitative analysis part (though I'm getting better the more I learn).
I think studying art also helps you to recognize function and form, even in code. I know that the code I've written during the last few years, since I started a degree in creative writing, is much more cohesive and elegant than the code I wrote during the first two decades of my career.
Yes. Many artists have the skills necessary to become great advocates for the user because they have developed a healthily individualistic attitude.
I'd say artists are a bit less conscientious, in general, than CS graduates, which makes them less well-suited to managing technical complexity and avoiding future problems. I wonder if your idea that artists are good at detecting technical debt might be something specific to you, rather than a generic trait of artists?
Art major, here, and I agree with these points. Critical thinking, communication, and creative problem solving are all very valuable skills to bring to a development team.
The 2+ years of art history is somewhat less helpful...
It was about a decade ago or so. I was finishing high school and contemplating studying graphic design or animation in a renowned school in my hometown (Les Gobelins, Paris). I befriended freshmen who were being sucked up into Flash animation trend and we started working for short-lived startups as Flash animators.
Then I discovered the works of Joshua Davis', Erik Natzke's, Robert Hodgin's (aka flight404) and it was the first epiphany — I started coding. It became a part-time job and a time-consuming intellectual pursuit up till now.
I knew nothing about it, but chose Fashion Design out of curiosity and because it's an interest I could share with my sister, but kept programming everyday. I never regretted it. In some way, it's very much like architecture (technical + philosophical + social impact). I even worked as a fashion designer for a short period right after, but it was not for me.
I learned HTML, CSS and PHP, then AS3, all thanks to the massive amount of literature available. I worked part time, paying part of my school tuition. When I graduated, I used my connections within the fashion industry to work as a Flash dev in a creative agency specialized in luxury brands.
Today I'm a full-stack web dev doing mostly JS, Python and studying Lispy dialects. I currently hold a position in an academic lab, where we blend design, research and engineering to study social sciences-related question within large data sets.
I'm studying math and algorithms to make a transition for the web to other scope of interest.
> I currently hold a position in an academic lab, where we blend design, research and engineering to study social sciences-related question within large data sets.
I have a degree in painting. A couple of years after graduating, I decided that I needed a portfolio website. I had no money, so I figured I would try building it myself.
I knew literally nothing about code at this point. But I struggled through it with W3schools (this was 2011, before the fancy learning platforms). The hardest part was fighting my own lack of confidence, because I had been made to believe that I was artistic and therefore bad at math and science. I never realized until that point how deeply I had absorbed this idea. Pushing past it has been a marvelous experience.
Anyways, I realized that I really enjoyed writing code. The next year, in 2012, I started learning JavaScript. About a year and a half later, I met someone who got me a junior dev job at a startup in NYC. Been doing the startup thing ever since.
As far as applying my artistic knowledge to IT work, I'd say it's been a struggle to stop applying it. At first, my approach was very creative, and I quickly saw how disastrous that is when you're working in a team. I would catch myself trying to find some other way of solving a problem than my co-workers, because I didn't want to "copy" their work. Solving artistic problems means finding your own unique solution, but solving programming problems means almost the exact opposite.
There are other areas in which my creative side does come out though. I recently had a job where we had to reverse engineer a financial API that was not public. This sort of quasi-hacking is kind of perfect for creative people because it forces you to think outside the box.
I didn't go to art school, but since my first invention was a new medium with new modes of expression that no one else understood like I did, I couldn't help myself making art with it despite my PhD being in physics. I had several solo gallery shows in New York City, pieces in museums and shown across the U.S. and some internationally, a couple big public pieces in Manhattan, and I taught a couple classes in art/design (at NYU's ITP and at Parsons).
Now that I teach and coach leadership (not IT work, so different than the question asked), I find art training tremendously valuable. Our educational system is strong on intellectually challenging people, but socially and emotionally teaches more passivity and compliance.
Creating art forces you to express your emotions, be sensitive to others', to face criticism on what you consider beautiful, to face vulnerabilities, to grow and learn in ways that lecture, problem sets, case studies, reading, and writing papers don't promote.
I also took some acting classes. Their structure has become the structure of how I teach, which gets very positive reviews from my students. They commonly comment that they never learned this way before, that they didn't know they could learn what they do in my courses, that they value it deeply, that it's immediately practical, and they wish they had more of it.
We teach fields that are active, social, expressive, emotional, and performance-based differently than academic subjects and that training teaches genuineness, authenticity, self-awareness, and other things that traditional academic education doesn't.
I did a BA Music, which was very traditional for the first two years (analysis, criticism, composition) but concluded with some amazing modules and projects in Max/MSP/Jitter/Processing.
Followed it up with an MSc in Computer Science, looked into careers as a developer but lacked the experience/aptitude for a coalface coding job and was hesitant to go into IT consultancy. Ended up opening a board game café with some friends instead so all's well really.
I'll definitely go back to coding / making, but as a hobby not a career. The skills definitely translate in some sense, but for me the most beneficial aspect is just having more ideas for cool projects. And maybe a greater willingness to spend time doing silly stuff because I enjoy it - not always for a lofty intellectual/societal purpose.
I have an MFA in poetry (2010) and now am a founder/swe at a startup providing software for libraries, museums, and archives. I wouldn't have been able to found a successful company without my time during the MFA where I learned how to live a disciplined life dedicated to exploring the self and imagination and pursuing one's ideas relentlessly.
Also, reflecting further, more than anything, the sheer amount of reading that I was able to do during my MFA taught me more than I think I give that time credit for. Days I was forced to do nothing but read/translate ~12-14 hours to get through coursework. Greek pastoral poetry and the Augustan-era Roman derivative have been influential.
Informative and encouraging to read all the responses in this thread. Thanks, iansowinski and all!
I have an MFA in 'Literary Arts' and studied creative writing and visual art in undergrad.
I have worked in a silly amount of industries, from retail to cleaning beach houses to coaching ceos. I have consulted for large energy companies, small non-profits, and, most recently, marketing agencies.
A friend in the startup game inspired me to stop dabbling and make a go of it as a coder, mainly for $$, but also because I enjoy endurance problems and painful growth.
I make art because people are fascinating. The emotional systems they construct around themselves- and the systems they are woven into- endlessly blow my mind.
Making good art requires a fascination with human systems. All of them.
I have stood out to my employers as someone who 'isn't like other coders' because I am interested in the emotional stakes of their lives, and have developed the skill of re-communicating those emotional stakes back to them in an artful way.
Art teaches you to see. This is helpful, socially, professionally, because most people want to be seen.
This understanding has been powerful and lucrative, for sure.
The creative writing workshop process also thickened my hide and killed unproductive parts of my ego.
Most professional meetings with supposedly 'high stakes' don't come close to the kind of personal vulnerability required to put your poem, your inner life, in front of a group of strangers.
HN lurker here, apologies for the throwaway. Just wanted to add my bit because I'm currently finishing a PhD in Fine Art which is entirely coding/computer based. It's at an elite art school that has absolutely no provision for CS of any kind. I also couldn't do a CS PhD anyway as I have no other math or CS training.
It's difficult to justify in some ways. Most of the practice-based work I'm doing I wouldn't really show as commercial art, it's introverted and 'academic' (in a Fine Art sense). Things like simulating a DDos of an online artwork and looking at that as a performance within the history of iconoclasm. Also anything technical is self-taught so I feel fairly certain I couldn't step into a coding role straight away - too many holes.
However, I've learned loads of assembly, python and general reverse-engineering skills and really smart & weird people constantly make me prove the point of what I'm doing within a context that I believe in. It's a context that's not exactly native to the materials I'm using, none of my peers have experience with what I'm doing on a technical level, so I'm forced to both "code switch" with my language during critique + think about computers in a way I never would in a CS degree (having spoken to many people with CS degrees). I love it. Art school forces you to lay down your own markers. Mine are that in the end I like what I'm making and I hope that it can add a small piece to our knowledge.
I have an art degree -- sculpture. I graduated, couldn't find good work, and went to a community college to learn programming. I wouldn't say my art background has much application to my current job.
I got a BFA from my state university in "Digital Arts", which for me was a combination of filmmaking, ceramics, and graphic design. I didn't start programming until my last year of school when I wanted to make stupid simple blinking lights with microcontrollers[1].
I agree with lots of responses in this thread about the roles of conceptual integrity and openness to criticism.
The other thing I would add is that my path to programming seems to have given me an orientation towards the outer shell of what I'm delivering, whether that thing is sensory or not (i.e. GUI or API). That's not to say I don't care about internals and constructs, but that I care about them _in service_ of that outer thing[2]. Midway through my programming career I learned about real outside-in TDD and it was like a lightning bolt where everything came together and anything seemed possible.
It saddens me to hear about the supposed importance of STEM education, as if the only thing left to do in today's economy is to deliver predictable implementations of finite technical problems. IMHO, this attitude is doing a great disservice to society, to individuals, and to the field of engineering itself.
[1] I needed CS 121 for a math credit that year and failed. In retrospect I realize that the class was entirely focused on for loops and divorced from the eventual goal of writing software. As a study in contrast, I was simultaneously taking "Programming for Artists" taught by the creator of Kid Pix. I learned a smaller set of skills, but really caught the bug for learning more. (Teach them to yearn for the sea and all that.)
[2] Ok not entirely. Some programming constructs are beautiful in their own right (e.g. map/reduce, CQRS, polymorphism...).
I share your observation about STEM. I do feel hopeful after I learned about STEAM - the term defined I believe by John Maeda. The A is for the arts and its importance as the reason why STEM exists... Meaning all the science/engineering efforts should be in the service of humanities.
I started in music, section lead and then later concertmaster in some local orchestras and symphonies, nothing big. But I learned a ton about how to manage people, synchronize work, meet deadlines at high quality and pull together different skillsets to achieve goals. I also learned how to take highly complex subjects and atomize them, learn them from the bottom up and then put them back together. I was pretty sure I'd end up with an art degree, but I also grew up very poor and we simply never had the money.
As a hobby I also participated in the demoscene and saw how very advanced technical approaches and art intersected and found a deep interest in software and technology.
Mix and stir over a couple years, add some time in school studying computer science and management and bada bing bada boom.
I learned to have an opinion, to spot quality, how to make compromises, how to make short term goals that achieved long term goals, how to lead, how to manage and so on. All these skills have served me well and I happily work alongside people with very intense and deep technical backgrounds.
I studied a BFA in Sound Design. It was an incredible mix. Along with the base arts courses, it stepped across music, film, animation and comp sci. It taught me the basics of signal processing, encouraged 'play' and seemed to balance creative expression with the engineering skills to enable that to happen.
After getting through all the courses that interested me I dropped out to travel and then fell into a few interesting jobs that kept me otherwise distracted from going back. I would 100% do it all again. The only thing that I'm super upset about is that I did't fall into the live coding community while I was there (this was literally happening at the same uni https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1FSsUV-8c).
One mindset that it solidified in me was when building things come up with the concept first, then figure out how to make that happen. That may be easy, or it may not. But at least what you're making will be worthwhile.
I work in the audiovisual industry today running an R&D lab for a systems integrator. We create presentation spaces, high-end corporate facilities and VC suites (which are still apparently a thing), a little bit of broadcast work, some stadium projects and lots of large format displays. When I'm tied into projects I'm usually end up rolling with some systems engineering, DSP programming, a bit of embedded dev, UI work and network engineering.
About to begin something new and rather exciting too.
I watched the video and it led me to install Sonic Pi and start messing around. Very cool stuff, will be interesting to see where electronic music goes in the future.
As someone who is still an EE student but is super into music production and film in my spare time, can I ask how you ended up where you are and to what degree your creative background helps out?
I have art degree in graphic design (visual communication).
After studies I was working very seriously, created a strong portfolio, was specializing in branding.
But design (and other types of (applied) arts) is very uncertain thing. In design for you 2+2=4, but for your client 2+2=7 and for the target audience 2+2=46. There are no objective criteria how to measure graphic design.
In programming 2+2=4.
Another bad thing about design is that non-designers are able to create design. Yes, their design is bad, but still they can do it by themselves.
In programming there is a big entrance barrier. That is why clients never DIY. That is why clients have bigger respect for programmers.
Before studying arts, I was in tech (when I was 11-14 years old). I did some linux, tried C++, web design etc.
Now I am 31. The last 3 years I'm mostly in development. Now I also do front end coding.
Arts can be very hard. Artists lack money, lack respect...
Yeah, you can do web design and get some decent money for it, but it is so mechanical and superficial. Once you learn it, there is nothing new to learn anymore. Just repeat the same. Follow some trends, that's it.
I like programming because there is a lot to learn. There will always be something new and exciting to learn. That's not the case with design.
Anyways, I really don't want to go back to graphic design and work with clients. But good that I got these skills. Now I can create an app (idea, design, development) completely on my own.
The concept of client's respect is rather interesting! And no other answers seemed to have mentioned it before yours. And I can only second that point.
When i was Designing i would consistently have to argue and haggle over pointless details that would make working just so tedious. Clients bossing you around because their favorite color is pink, and that they love gradients and wordart-like flowery designs, but wanting a corporate and trustworthy looking outcome.. When coding, really that changes, people start thinking you are a genius/mathematician/geek whatever else.. And to be honest, it's so not true, but that does feel great.
Similar path here. I'd just add that visual design (and to a lesser extent, interaction design and ux design) is becoming commoditized due to common CSS libraries and patterns, WYSIWYG website building tools, more accessible design tools like Sketch, and a general convergence and consensus on best practices.
I switched to web development from product/digital design, then more recently to iOS development. I'm really glad I have a design background, especially with iOS/mobile where users have a higher experience bar, and where pretty much any interaction is not just achievable but easy.
I don't, but my co-founder does (VC backed startup). In many ways, he made me realize true design talent is one of the rarest and most valuable skills in tech, more than engineering. Everything we create looks awesome solely because of him, whether that's branding, marketing, web and web app design, or mobile UI. It's had a huge impact on our value as a company. This might be a relatively recent phenomenon, so timing seems really good for you and the field as a whole.
The downside for people in this field is that we need just one for a team of 25, whereas we have nearly 18 engineers. Competition could be fierce for these jobs, but I'll never start another company without a design co-founder.
Cannot agree more on design talent. In my experience, good back end developers (not just adequate, good) are a dime a dozen comparatively. Developers love to think that code is everything, but as many have learned, it's the business that matters. What makes the biggest difference often is the UX and design.
Have a degree in Visual Communication, with an Illustration major. I'd already been programming since I was 14 when I started it, and was going into Software Engineering, but at the behest of my best friend, changed at the last minute. I have never regretted the decision, because it opened me up to new thinking.
In particular I've learnt to apply the many of the concepts I learned from graphic design/illustration to problems in software engineering. I also learned that for all the differences they had, they were both about problem solving, merely in different media, and that right-brained or left-brained, I'm more interested in solving problems than I am interested in the context in which I solve them.
Also, art students are on the whole way more social, so I learnt to communicate on a whole different level than I had at high school.
A coherent life narrative that makes the parts of life fit together in a meaningful way is a cornerstone of human happiness. This inevitably biases the answers you will receive.
You may get more insight with the following question "Have any developers coded with someone who had an art degree ?"
My experience with a former artist proved challenging mainly because they refused, almost out of principle, to adhere to our company's design patterns and best coding practices. They felt that coding should be an expression of creative writing. The result was a collection of anti-patterns and dismissal of our naming conventions.
It was like explaining to a poet who now works with physicists that there is one and only one word for "force" and that word always means mass x acceleration. If you want to destroy the spirit of a poet, take a way all synonyms and metaphors.
There is certainly creativity in software development, but it is in extracting simplicity out of complexity. It is not forcing it into the embodiment of the code itself. The heavy constraints imposed in software development can be a source of frustration to someone from an art background. It is not too hard to overcome with awareness. My comment is not meant to be discouraging. It is also a single data point, as are all the other responses.
I have a BFA in Graphic Design. My program was more print focused but I always made websites where ever I could. I knew HTML and CSS and basic js and a tiny bit of php.
I was beyond lucky to get a design job for a small startup on craigslist doing just design. From there I just wanted to help the startups I was working for move faster. So I learned to do better with HTML, CSS. And then JS and PHP just to help feature development go faster.
Eventually I found the programming interviews much easier then the design interviews. Though to be fair I don't think I was that amazing of a designer.
I got a few jobs doing all front end development and now I do all node / js/ react code.
While I lack any formal programming training what I do have is a really amazing relationship with the UX designers I have worked with. I have a feel for what they want and I care about what they are trying to accomplish. I am also better able to find good middle ground to compromise feature development on.
I think my focus on UX as a developer really helps me put out the best possible features.
While there seems to be many people in this thread with an art background I have found very few in the places I have worked with similar backgrounds.
I have wanted to go into moviemaking since I was 13, and I got my Bachelor of Arts in it. I am not sure how much of it applies to programming. But trying to make a good movie is the hardest thing I have ever tried. So all work since then feels like a piece of cake.
More applicable to programming has been my minor, English. I think English composition, the particular kind taught in The Elements of Style and On Writing Well, is very similar to programming. This school of writing is neither The Chicago Manual of Style (put a comma here) nor free, self-expressive, creative writing that I was mostly taught. It's all about economy of words (which maps directly to economy of code), making every word count, and putting yourself in the background as you work to serve the reader (or the user).
I also loved drawing and have studied graphic design. This of course helps in the design of user interfaces. Although, like my writing, it's not about creative self-expression but being clear and direct and getting out of the way.
English literature student - full stack developer now. Few pointers based on my experience but they may not be applicable for all though.
# Don't sweat on Math skills. There is a vast majority of area were your logical reasoning would just be enough.
# Don't let your artistic inclination limit your initial learning process. If your basics are strong - you will never feel like drowning.
# Don't let any source code scare you. Trust me - it's always easier than it looks.
# Don't try to pick a domain as the go to destination - not yet. You can take informed decision when you have hands-on experience.
# Don't try to have just one trick up your sleeve. Width is more important until you can hit the depth.
# Don't marry yourself to any technology but choose your allegiance(eg. Open Source).
# Don't miss local developer meet ups and conferences.
# Don't pick a big corporation or become a freelancer or any remote jobs for your initial stint. Startups are the best place but with the development team size being more than two people.
[+] [-] spaceribs|9 years ago|reply
1. We've been trained to critique, and communicate issues constructively. This is absolutely essential to working quickly, the sooner you realize there is an existential problem with what you're doing, the sooner you can work through them. I've become an absolute user story master because of what I learned at art school.
2. Self management, I prefer to work alone because I get the best work done when I can juggle and understand all the variables of the task. This forces me to be adept at a lot of different things but also means that as a developer you can pretty much leave me alone unless I really suck at something.
3. Asking why all the time, critiquing is one thing but the worst experiences I've had are when other developers say things like "It's always been like this". For example, I came into a shop where their build process had an SCSS linter that would error if anyone tried to use a color that wasn't a variable. This ended up creating the habit of a single stylesheet with around 200 slight adjustments of colors. Critical thinking is whats important for building systems with low technical debt, and I think artists are able to realize something is turning into technical debt much quicker than their engineer counterparts.
The tradeoff is that I have a huge communication gap with traditional computer scientists, I really have to work and study algorithms on my spare time and I still struggle heavily with mathematical notations.
[+] [-] tenaciousDaniel|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phirschybar|9 years ago|reply
I agree with the points here but would like to add one thing. "The Creative Process". In learning how to create successful art work, you discover and become entrenched in this.
You learn how to take an idea and move it through phases of conception, sketching, planning, material/media choice and collection, prototyping, iteration, critique/feedback, execution, refinement, polish, installation, transporting, storage, transaction, and sometimes defense of concept.
All of these processes are part of making art. To developers, some of this may sound familiar!
An appreciation of process and an understanding that every action and choice is part of that process can attribute to success in development. Artists who enjoy the creative process are likely to succeed in other disciplines which require extensive processes.
[+] [-] blooooo|9 years ago|reply
The understanding with most art is that it takes several rounds of critique for a piece to even be complete, much less for an artist to reach their overall potential. And it's considered an honor to receive criticism from someone whose work you admire.
Similarly, self-management is completely necessary if you're completing something long-term, like a novel. Scrappiness, too -- it's very often the case that you have to skip around the gatekeepers to reach an audience for the first time.
I'd also add that there's a certain strange cognitive advantage. A lot of art is built on taking concepts from one situation and applying them somewhere foreign -- translating the feeling of loss into a series of musical notes, or applying the principles of the punk rock movement to dance.
I know it sounds like bullshit to a lot of hackers. But that trick, of abstracting away the details of problems so that their solutions can be used in isomorphic situations, is very handy in computer science.
[+] [-] k__|9 years ago|reply
He said, he didn't think this would go hand in hand, but after he saw some algorithm stuff from a friend he was surprised how easy it was, so he switched from composing to coding algos.
[+] [-] zengid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] innocentoldguy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theoh|9 years ago|reply
I'd say artists are a bit less conscientious, in general, than CS graduates, which makes them less well-suited to managing technical complexity and avoiding future problems. I wonder if your idea that artists are good at detecting technical debt might be something specific to you, rather than a generic trait of artists?
[+] [-] rjm226|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulcpederson|9 years ago|reply
The 2+ years of art history is somewhat less helpful...
[+] [-] dheavy|9 years ago|reply
It was about a decade ago or so. I was finishing high school and contemplating studying graphic design or animation in a renowned school in my hometown (Les Gobelins, Paris). I befriended freshmen who were being sucked up into Flash animation trend and we started working for short-lived startups as Flash animators.
Then I discovered the works of Joshua Davis', Erik Natzke's, Robert Hodgin's (aka flight404) and it was the first epiphany — I started coding. It became a part-time job and a time-consuming intellectual pursuit up till now.
I knew nothing about it, but chose Fashion Design out of curiosity and because it's an interest I could share with my sister, but kept programming everyday. I never regretted it. In some way, it's very much like architecture (technical + philosophical + social impact). I even worked as a fashion designer for a short period right after, but it was not for me.
I learned HTML, CSS and PHP, then AS3, all thanks to the massive amount of literature available. I worked part time, paying part of my school tuition. When I graduated, I used my connections within the fashion industry to work as a Flash dev in a creative agency specialized in luxury brands.
Today I'm a full-stack web dev doing mostly JS, Python and studying Lispy dialects. I currently hold a position in an academic lab, where we blend design, research and engineering to study social sciences-related question within large data sets.
I'm studying math and algorithms to make a transition for the web to other scope of interest.
[+] [-] ewolf|9 years ago|reply
That sounds very interesting! Care to elaborate?
[+] [-] tenaciousDaniel|9 years ago|reply
I knew literally nothing about code at this point. But I struggled through it with W3schools (this was 2011, before the fancy learning platforms). The hardest part was fighting my own lack of confidence, because I had been made to believe that I was artistic and therefore bad at math and science. I never realized until that point how deeply I had absorbed this idea. Pushing past it has been a marvelous experience.
Anyways, I realized that I really enjoyed writing code. The next year, in 2012, I started learning JavaScript. About a year and a half later, I met someone who got me a junior dev job at a startup in NYC. Been doing the startup thing ever since.
As far as applying my artistic knowledge to IT work, I'd say it's been a struggle to stop applying it. At first, my approach was very creative, and I quickly saw how disastrous that is when you're working in a team. I would catch myself trying to find some other way of solving a problem than my co-workers, because I didn't want to "copy" their work. Solving artistic problems means finding your own unique solution, but solving programming problems means almost the exact opposite.
There are other areas in which my creative side does come out though. I recently had a job where we had to reverse engineer a financial API that was not public. This sort of quasi-hacking is kind of perfect for creative people because it forces you to think outside the box.
[+] [-] spodek|9 years ago|reply
Now that I teach and coach leadership (not IT work, so different than the question asked), I find art training tremendously valuable. Our educational system is strong on intellectually challenging people, but socially and emotionally teaches more passivity and compliance.
Creating art forces you to express your emotions, be sensitive to others', to face criticism on what you consider beautiful, to face vulnerabilities, to grow and learn in ways that lecture, problem sets, case studies, reading, and writing papers don't promote.
I also took some acting classes. Their structure has become the structure of how I teach, which gets very positive reviews from my students. They commonly comment that they never learned this way before, that they didn't know they could learn what they do in my courses, that they value it deeply, that it's immediately practical, and they wish they had more of it.
We teach fields that are active, social, expressive, emotional, and performance-based differently than academic subjects and that training teaches genuineness, authenticity, self-awareness, and other things that traditional academic education doesn't.
[+] [-] 1337biz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Scown|9 years ago|reply
Followed it up with an MSc in Computer Science, looked into careers as a developer but lacked the experience/aptitude for a coalface coding job and was hesitant to go into IT consultancy. Ended up opening a board game café with some friends instead so all's well really.
I'll definitely go back to coding / making, but as a hobby not a career. The skills definitely translate in some sense, but for me the most beneficial aspect is just having more ideas for cool projects. And maybe a greater willingness to spend time doing silly stuff because I enjoy it - not always for a lofty intellectual/societal purpose.
[+] [-] iandanforth|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0restes|9 years ago|reply
Also, reflecting further, more than anything, the sheer amount of reading that I was able to do during my MFA taught me more than I think I give that time credit for. Days I was forced to do nothing but read/translate ~12-14 hours to get through coursework. Greek pastoral poetry and the Augustan-era Roman derivative have been influential.
Informative and encouraging to read all the responses in this thread. Thanks, iansowinski and all!
[+] [-] garagemc2|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dangle|9 years ago|reply
I have worked in a silly amount of industries, from retail to cleaning beach houses to coaching ceos. I have consulted for large energy companies, small non-profits, and, most recently, marketing agencies.
A friend in the startup game inspired me to stop dabbling and make a go of it as a coder, mainly for $$, but also because I enjoy endurance problems and painful growth.
I make art because people are fascinating. The emotional systems they construct around themselves- and the systems they are woven into- endlessly blow my mind.
Making good art requires a fascination with human systems. All of them.
I have stood out to my employers as someone who 'isn't like other coders' because I am interested in the emotional stakes of their lives, and have developed the skill of re-communicating those emotional stakes back to them in an artful way.
Art teaches you to see. This is helpful, socially, professionally, because most people want to be seen.
This understanding has been powerful and lucrative, for sure.
The creative writing workshop process also thickened my hide and killed unproductive parts of my ego.
Most professional meetings with supposedly 'high stakes' don't come close to the kind of personal vulnerability required to put your poem, your inner life, in front of a group of strangers.
[+] [-] throwawayart|9 years ago|reply
It's difficult to justify in some ways. Most of the practice-based work I'm doing I wouldn't really show as commercial art, it's introverted and 'academic' (in a Fine Art sense). Things like simulating a DDos of an online artwork and looking at that as a performance within the history of iconoclasm. Also anything technical is self-taught so I feel fairly certain I couldn't step into a coding role straight away - too many holes.
However, I've learned loads of assembly, python and general reverse-engineering skills and really smart & weird people constantly make me prove the point of what I'm doing within a context that I believe in. It's a context that's not exactly native to the materials I'm using, none of my peers have experience with what I'm doing on a technical level, so I'm forced to both "code switch" with my language during critique + think about computers in a way I never would in a CS degree (having spoken to many people with CS degrees). I love it. Art school forces you to lay down your own markers. Mine are that in the end I like what I'm making and I hope that it can add a small piece to our knowledge.
[+] [-] scmoore|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeanderK|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SalahEddine|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] zachrose|9 years ago|reply
I agree with lots of responses in this thread about the roles of conceptual integrity and openness to criticism.
The other thing I would add is that my path to programming seems to have given me an orientation towards the outer shell of what I'm delivering, whether that thing is sensory or not (i.e. GUI or API). That's not to say I don't care about internals and constructs, but that I care about them _in service_ of that outer thing[2]. Midway through my programming career I learned about real outside-in TDD and it was like a lightning bolt where everything came together and anything seemed possible.
It saddens me to hear about the supposed importance of STEM education, as if the only thing left to do in today's economy is to deliver predictable implementations of finite technical problems. IMHO, this attitude is doing a great disservice to society, to individuals, and to the field of engineering itself.
[1] I needed CS 121 for a math credit that year and failed. In retrospect I realize that the class was entirely focused on for loops and divorced from the eventual goal of writing software. As a study in contrast, I was simultaneously taking "Programming for Artists" taught by the creator of Kid Pix. I learned a smaller set of skills, but really caught the bug for learning more. (Teach them to yearn for the sea and all that.)
[2] Ok not entirely. Some programming constructs are beautiful in their own right (e.g. map/reduce, CQRS, polymorphism...).
[+] [-] tomek_zemla|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atmartins|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|9 years ago|reply
As a hobby I also participated in the demoscene and saw how very advanced technical approaches and art intersected and found a deep interest in software and technology.
Mix and stir over a couple years, add some time in school studying computer science and management and bada bing bada boom.
I learned to have an opinion, to spot quality, how to make compromises, how to make short term goals that achieved long term goals, how to lead, how to manage and so on. All these skills have served me well and I happily work alongside people with very intense and deep technical backgrounds.
[+] [-] kimburgess|9 years ago|reply
After getting through all the courses that interested me I dropped out to travel and then fell into a few interesting jobs that kept me otherwise distracted from going back. I would 100% do it all again. The only thing that I'm super upset about is that I did't fall into the live coding community while I was there (this was literally happening at the same uni https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1FSsUV-8c).
One mindset that it solidified in me was when building things come up with the concept first, then figure out how to make that happen. That may be easy, or it may not. But at least what you're making will be worthwhile.
I work in the audiovisual industry today running an R&D lab for a systems integrator. We create presentation spaces, high-end corporate facilities and VC suites (which are still apparently a thing), a little bit of broadcast work, some stadium projects and lots of large format displays. When I'm tied into projects I'm usually end up rolling with some systems engineering, DSP programming, a bit of embedded dev, UI work and network engineering.
About to begin something new and rather exciting too.
[+] [-] vvll|9 years ago|reply
I watched the video and it led me to install Sonic Pi and start messing around. Very cool stuff, will be interesting to see where electronic music goes in the future.
As someone who is still an EE student but is super into music production and film in my spare time, can I ask how you ended up where you are and to what degree your creative background helps out?
[+] [-] dziungles|9 years ago|reply
After studies I was working very seriously, created a strong portfolio, was specializing in branding.
But design (and other types of (applied) arts) is very uncertain thing. In design for you 2+2=4, but for your client 2+2=7 and for the target audience 2+2=46. There are no objective criteria how to measure graphic design.
In programming 2+2=4.
Another bad thing about design is that non-designers are able to create design. Yes, their design is bad, but still they can do it by themselves.
In programming there is a big entrance barrier. That is why clients never DIY. That is why clients have bigger respect for programmers.
Before studying arts, I was in tech (when I was 11-14 years old). I did some linux, tried C++, web design etc.
Now I am 31. The last 3 years I'm mostly in development. Now I also do front end coding.
Arts can be very hard. Artists lack money, lack respect...
Yeah, you can do web design and get some decent money for it, but it is so mechanical and superficial. Once you learn it, there is nothing new to learn anymore. Just repeat the same. Follow some trends, that's it.
I like programming because there is a lot to learn. There will always be something new and exciting to learn. That's not the case with design.
Anyways, I really don't want to go back to graphic design and work with clients. But good that I got these skills. Now I can create an app (idea, design, development) completely on my own.
[+] [-] Marinlemaignan|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jordanf|9 years ago|reply
Similar path here. I'd just add that visual design (and to a lesser extent, interaction design and ux design) is becoming commoditized due to common CSS libraries and patterns, WYSIWYG website building tools, more accessible design tools like Sketch, and a general convergence and consensus on best practices.
I switched to web development from product/digital design, then more recently to iOS development. I'm really glad I have a design background, especially with iOS/mobile where users have a higher experience bar, and where pretty much any interaction is not just achievable but easy.
[+] [-] yesimahuman|9 years ago|reply
The downside for people in this field is that we need just one for a team of 25, whereas we have nearly 18 engineers. Competition could be fierce for these jobs, but I'll never start another company without a design co-founder.
[+] [-] adjkant|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pm|9 years ago|reply
In particular I've learnt to apply the many of the concepts I learned from graphic design/illustration to problems in software engineering. I also learned that for all the differences they had, they were both about problem solving, merely in different media, and that right-brained or left-brained, I'm more interested in solving problems than I am interested in the context in which I solve them.
Also, art students are on the whole way more social, so I learnt to communicate on a whole different level than I had at high school.
Also, way better drugs.
[+] [-] TheHideout|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyggyhhfdd|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] louprado|9 years ago|reply
You may get more insight with the following question "Have any developers coded with someone who had an art degree ?"
My experience with a former artist proved challenging mainly because they refused, almost out of principle, to adhere to our company's design patterns and best coding practices. They felt that coding should be an expression of creative writing. The result was a collection of anti-patterns and dismissal of our naming conventions.
It was like explaining to a poet who now works with physicists that there is one and only one word for "force" and that word always means mass x acceleration. If you want to destroy the spirit of a poet, take a way all synonyms and metaphors.
There is certainly creativity in software development, but it is in extracting simplicity out of complexity. It is not forcing it into the embodiment of the code itself. The heavy constraints imposed in software development can be a source of frustration to someone from an art background. It is not too hard to overcome with awareness. My comment is not meant to be discouraging. It is also a single data point, as are all the other responses.
[+] [-] STHayden|9 years ago|reply
I was beyond lucky to get a design job for a small startup on craigslist doing just design. From there I just wanted to help the startups I was working for move faster. So I learned to do better with HTML, CSS. And then JS and PHP just to help feature development go faster.
Eventually I found the programming interviews much easier then the design interviews. Though to be fair I don't think I was that amazing of a designer.
I got a few jobs doing all front end development and now I do all node / js/ react code.
While I lack any formal programming training what I do have is a really amazing relationship with the UX designers I have worked with. I have a feel for what they want and I care about what they are trying to accomplish. I am also better able to find good middle ground to compromise feature development on.
I think my focus on UX as a developer really helps me put out the best possible features.
While there seems to be many people in this thread with an art background I have found very few in the places I have worked with similar backgrounds.
[+] [-] anotherhacker|9 years ago|reply
I taught myself programming (C++) when I was 15 (1995). I made simple puzzle games on my Mac.
The internet got big and I got into HTML and JS.
I didn't go to college for Computer Science b/c it sounded like I'd end up wearing a white coat and working at IBM.
I went to Art School b/c it was the closest thing to programming. Programming and Art are the same in that you create something from nothing.
When coding became "cool" (2004 ish) I picked it up again.
[+] [-] combatentropy|9 years ago|reply
More applicable to programming has been my minor, English. I think English composition, the particular kind taught in The Elements of Style and On Writing Well, is very similar to programming. This school of writing is neither The Chicago Manual of Style (put a comma here) nor free, self-expressive, creative writing that I was mostly taught. It's all about economy of words (which maps directly to economy of code), making every word count, and putting yourself in the background as you work to serve the reader (or the user).
I also loved drawing and have studied graphic design. This of course helps in the design of user interfaces. Although, like my writing, it's not about creative self-expression but being clear and direct and getting out of the way.
[+] [-] navinsylvester|9 years ago|reply
# Don't sweat on Math skills. There is a vast majority of area were your logical reasoning would just be enough.
# Don't let your artistic inclination limit your initial learning process. If your basics are strong - you will never feel like drowning.
# Don't let any source code scare you. Trust me - it's always easier than it looks.
# Don't try to pick a domain as the go to destination - not yet. You can take informed decision when you have hands-on experience.
# Don't try to have just one trick up your sleeve. Width is more important until you can hit the depth.
# Don't marry yourself to any technology but choose your allegiance(eg. Open Source).
# Don't miss local developer meet ups and conferences.
# Don't pick a big corporation or become a freelancer or any remote jobs for your initial stint. Startups are the best place but with the development team size being more than two people.