Ask HN: How do you deal with self-doubt and depression

[rottingmind]

I am going through some serious self-doubt. I feel everyone around me is better than me.

I am feeling crippled inside my heart, I don't know how how to put it into words.

I procrastinate to keep my mind off things, but it is spiralling me more towards more self-hatred and doubt on my skills.

I avoid meeting friends. I try to appear happy when meeting people. But inside I know I am useless piece of crap.

I literally am a bad programmer, bad business person, probably a bad friend and spouse.

[RikNieu]

I'll suggest an approach that works for me: stop believing your thoughts and internal narratives.

They are not true and they are not 'you'. And even if they sometimes are accurate, they're not permanent or true in all cases. But mostly, they're just plain false, or hyperbole, or misunderstandings, or projections, or just plain random. They are just mind objects that pop in and out of your awareness, based on conditioning. Your mind will keep on supplying your awareness with the kinds of thoughts that it generally focuses on.

So here's how you do it: don't try and suppress your thoughts or make them go away. But when one pops into your head, simply note objectively that a thought popped up, categorise it as negative, positive, or neutral, and and allow it to go away. If it's got some utility to it, like "I need to feed the dog", follow it through. But don't get dragged into believing it, especially if its just negative and unhelpful.

Humouring your internal negative dialog is like arguing with crazy strangers on the internet. It's pointless and a waste of time. You don't have to take on and identify with their statements and opinions.

Here's a talk(it's from a Buddhist monk) on this very issue that might help you, if you're open to it. http://www.amaravati.org/audio/negative-mind/

[rottingmind]

Thanks. I will give this a try.

[andromeda__]

One thing I learnt is that as humans we're probably more alike than we might want to accept. Many people are probably going through what you are going through and even though that might not be sufficient to make you feel like you're on top of the world, the point is, it happens to the best of us so you shouldn't feel alone.

Secondly, talk to someone you trust. Confide in them.

Thirdly, if you truly think you have room for improvement in your life and your relationships, do it now. Be better; you can do it. Start now.

Lastly, if you drink alcohol, stop it. It only makes it worse.

Stay hopeful.

[kk_cz]

See a doctor. Seriously. You wouldn't ask HN how to solve a chronic disease affecting your heart or stomach. Why do you try this approach when symptoms of disease affecting brain kick in? Therapy works. Antidepressants work.

I was suffering pointlessly for several years before seeking help and got much better in mere weeks of antidepressants use. Don't be as stupid as I was.

[rottingmind]

I know what you are saying. I understand it. But I am not able to bring myself to do it.

[throwaway13542]

As someone who has been through a similar phase (during my Ph.D.) that lasted years, and who has seen close friends go through the same, I hope the following will help.

During this phase, I found myself unable to step back from the little failures and hiccups I hit along the way. I was unable to see the big picture or look at the effect of small efforts made in the long term. As a result, whenever something would go wrong or even appear to go wrong on a goal I had set out to do, it would immediately trigger a flood of gated emotions that I had held back to start pursuing that goal in the first place.

The only way I managed to dig myself slowly out of my state of mind was to force 'small wins' on a day-to-day basis.

Go to the gym. Get out of bed and finish a morning routine. Read two to five pages of a book before bedtime. Try cooking a new recipe on a Sunday afternoon. Have a date-night with your spouse to reconnect. And so on. I started by forcing similar small wins for a month and found myself gaining the confidence to push towards bigger goals, except with a significantly better outlook this time around.

My advice would be to set up the smallest goals you can, and then go accomplish them. Remove the possibility of failure from the equation. Start with just one and go sequentially in the beginning. Specifically, activities like sports and exercise have built-in metrics that let you see clear progress over time. The confidence that comes from these small wins provides the foundation to push yourself a little farther as time goes on. Confidence breeds confidence. Start with one aspect of your life (e.g. health, or relationship with spouse) and slowly expand into the other parts of your life. When things go wrong, just re-think the goal; break it down further or simplify and try again.

From my own personal experience, a surefire way to fail is to initially set yourself up with goals that require significant time or patience. With an inability to step back and see that failure in the short term doesn't imply failure in the long term, it risks spiraling you back into old patterns that only provide negative reinforcement.

Hope this helps.

[_m8fo]

In addition to all of the advice given here, I might add: find a job that's easy for you. If it requires a pay-cut, so be it. I think doing something that's easy and being very successful will build your confidence that will help in solving all of the problems you mention, in addition to all the other advice.

It's difficult for me to explain, but being notably good at what you're doing is very healthy. Moreso, I think then being OK and feeling that you're below average at a more difficult task. I wouldn't do the easy stuff for too long, as your skills won't grow as fast, but a stint for a couple years can't hurt.

Good luck!

[CyberFonic]

I can relate to what you write. I too have gone through such a bleak time. And yes, the spiral can become a vortex. But there's hope:

People around you are NOT better than you. For the most part they are faking it and hoping like crazy that they'll make it. In some places, e.g. SF, SV, everybody is "crushing it". It's an act. Most likely they suffer from impostor syndrome.

It is daunting to change everything at once. So just pick one area and make some small improvement. You imply that you are married. That is a good place to start, sit down with your spouse, tell them how you feel and discuss how you could make one change (cooperatively) that improves things for both of you. Then you could repeat this. Having improved home situation is an excellent start. Emboldened by such a success you could have a similar step with a very good friend and so it goes on. I would leave becoming better at work to when you have some wins on the board.

There is no stigma in seeking professional help. It certainly helped get me onto the right track (I was single at the time and hardly had any friends due to working long hours).

[rottingmind]

I should seek help. I know it. But I find it really difficult to believe that I am worthy of anything.

I will definitely try talking with my spouse today. I hope this helps me crawl out of this mess I seem to be creating in my mind.

[wernsey]

I would recommend seeking out professional help for this kind of depression. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is a keyword you can search for.

If you make mistakes or aren't good at something, there are three things to bear in mind:

1. Other people will likely not realize that you've made a mistake. Mostly because people in general are self centered and they are also worried about how other people see them. Probably so worried that they don't realize your mistake.

2. If they do realize you've made a mistake, you will seem more human to them. Your mistakes will actually endear you to the people around you.

In the end, you judge yourself more harshly than other people judge you. Next time you see someone make a mistake, like spill a drink, observe how you judge that person. You'll probably just feel glad that it didn't happen to you and move on. That's how other people see you.

3. People want to be liked and act within social norms. If you make a mistake and someone points and laughs at you, then that person is acting outside of social norms, and the fault lies with them and not with you.

Good luck.

[dmitripopov]

It's not you, it's your low dopamine level that speaks for you. Funny that just a tiny amount of chemical make you a different person. Here's what you can do right now to increase it:

1. Go for sleep, at least for 10 hours.

2. Go for a long walk (all day long), preferrably where you never been before.

3. Stop drinking coffee and other caffeine-based drinks.

4. Stop drinking alcohol and smoke

5. Listen to your favorite music, read a book or do whatever you like.

6. Spend time with your friends and family.

Do this for at least a week and you will feel better for sure. BUT! If it does not help you need to visit psychotherapist as soon as possible - this condition is DANGEROUS!

[beauchef]

Very simple points, but important ones. I agree.

[DanBC]

Cognitive behaviour therapy is evidence based, and short. A course of treatment takes about one hour per week for about 12 weeks.

It's effective for about 60% of the people who go through it.

Mindfulness and meditation are useful tools that give you a structured way to examine your thoughts.

Medication is useful for many people, but you may need to try a couple to get one that suits you and that works.

If you're having thoughts of suicide you should carefully seek medical help. If you have a plan you need urgent medical attention.

[rottingmind]

Some people like yourself have suggested meditation and therapy. I will try meditation. I don't know if I will be able to keep my mind still.

I don't think I am suicidal yet. But it gets a bit hard to do normal things on normal days. I'd much rather lie down and not do anything.

[beauchef]

I have been there, I know what you are going through. What works for me: physical activity (running in my case), meditation, and rational emotive behavior therapy (look into Albert Ellis). A psychologist could help. And if all else fails, see a doctor. But my most important advice? Don't delay, and seek help.

[mirandac]

Change your thoughts to productive thoughts. Judgmental thoughts are not productive. Cut out the emotions and be rational. Instead of thinking "am I bad?" think "how can I get better?".

Without walking the heavy road we never get anywhere. Everybody suffers and starts out bad, that's OK. Giving up is for losers.

As for relationships: Share happiness and small gestures. It will make their life better and in turn your life.

[nausea1975]

I have exactly the same symptoms. My favorite sport teams always lose or some of them are out of history, are bankrupted or relegated. Some of my very good friends died or are very sick. I never found God. I'm afraid of nuclear war, earthquakes, terrorists , russian invasion, alien abductions. I have a constant fear of dark. More, I'm very fat. I live just out of curiosity, to see what can happen and how it will end. One solution is in movie Fight Club, at beginning ..try to find people under you, with cancer or other deathly ills.

[psyc]

The only thing that ever helped me was meditation. And by 'helped' I mean solved completely. Even having these thoughts in your mind at all is bad. Practice having a clear mind that's mostly aware of real present things.

[Vosporos]

I've recently managed to see a psychiatrist. It really helps to talk to someone. Also, tell your friend and your spouse about how you feel. They should know and could help you. :) Good luck with that.

[johnnydoebk]

I had the same issue, solved it by finding a job. Repeated it twice. Every time I'm not busy with my projects or work for too long, I start doubting.

[rottingmind]

How do you guys find passion ? I don't know where my passion lies. Do I even have a passion ? Do I have to be passionate about something ?

[DamonHD]

I think that "passion" is over-claimed and over-rated.

I just get on with stuff, stuff that I think makes the world a little better each day.

And I concur with many of the points made in other replies, eg others are often faking it madly and you don't have to be the best in the world to be worth the oxygen that you breathe.

You will most likely feel batter in time. Give yourself time, and reduce some of the stresses that are making you feel bad.

I know how bad one can feel, but the very fact that you are reflective and thoughtful means that you're likely one of the good ones! Hang in there!

Rgds

Damon

[dmitripopov]

Actually you don't need to adhere to any standards. If there's nothing that inspires you - OK, you are just not passionate. It's normal, there are millions like you. Accept yourself, you are you, nothing to worry about.

[mirandac]

The market is supply/demand, not passion. Passion is for lovers.

[yasha91]

take some time to think about what makes you happy and try to pursue that...you're more than likely to be good at something you're passionate about.