How to actually get a remote job as an intermediate developer?

[kinetik-pro]

I've been trying to get a Remote job for over a month now, with 0 luck so far. I know lots of HN readers are freelancers, so I want to address you.

How did you manage to get your first Remote job? And if anyone has some spare time and will, could you possibly help me understand what am I doing wrong?

I'm WebDev - PHP BackEnd with 3 years of experience. Cheers.

[deedubaya]

I see a lot of devs trying to convert to remote positions who get frustrated that they haven't landed a job after days/weeks/months.

Going remote isn't as easy as what many devs are probably accustomed to, especially if you're new to the game (as the tech hiring market has been :fire:).

If you're going to go remote, you need to realize a few things:

- You're competing against waaay more candidates. You need to stand out, not just be another warm body.

- You need to demonstrate, without a doubt, that you can/have worked autonomously.

- You need to demonstrate, without a doubt, that you can/have been self managing in the past.

- You need to demonstrate that you provide a better bang-for-the-buck than anyone else who has applied

Source: Working and hiring remotely for the last 7-ish years.

[jinfiesto]

This. I work remote currently and my job was not initially a remote position. After about a year of demonstrating the above, I was offered remote as a benefit. So that's something that might also be an option: finding a company that's open to remote work and converting after working in office for some amount of time.

[justboxing]

Not trolling, but really curious, how do you propose one demonstrates the following in a very convincing way during the interview?

> - You need to demonstrate, without a doubt, that you can/have worked autonomously, that you can/have been self managing in the past

Do you simply state your experience of having worked autonomously, or having self-managed? If yes, how would you still stand out, because it's like every other candidate also states the same thing "Oh yeah, I require minimum supervision, always get my sh*t done on time by self-managing".

and

> that you provide a better bang-for-the-buck than anyone else who has applied

This is even more vague and fuzzy. How do you demonstrate that you "provide a better bang-for-the-buck than anyone else who has applied" during a phone interview? References?

[Alacart]

This is why I think more people who are looking for remote should be open to becoming a contractor/freelancer temporarily. Working remotely is already an accepted practice in that context, allowing you to build up a track record of successful remote work. That will give many companies the confidence they need to hire you remotely, and you can offer to take on a small project contract with them first if they need to see it for themselves.

I only contract remotely, with no intention of taking regular employment any time soon, and I still get asked if I'd like to join the team full time as a remote fairly often. Not because I'm so amazing but because they don't need to guess or take risks, they already have proof I can do it successfully for them.

[logicallee]

Right. That network cable goes all the way to Bangladesh. Average programmer hourly wage in Bangladesh:

https://www.google.com/search?q=average+programmer+hourly+wa...

I clicked on the second link:

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/hourly-wage.php?loc=18&loctype...

   Maximum: 698 BDT / hr
   Average: 326 BDT / hr
   Median: 279 BDT / hr
   Minimum: 58 BDT / hr

In dollars that is:

   Maximum: $8.6 / hr
   Average: $4.0 / hr
   Median: $3.4 / hr
   Minimum: $0.72 / hr

I bet you're looking for more than them. But when they go remote, aren't you competing with them?

I would say it is easier to become remote if you are already working with a company that knows you. As for establishing such a relationship, I kind of agree with codingdave's advice in this thread.

[kzisme]

As an intermediate dev - is it even ~really~ possible to get a remote job then?

Assuming all of your demonstrating points are just from previous employment?

[kinetik-pro]

Really constructive answer. Thanks a lot!

[k__]

I don't know a generic solution, I just can say what I did:

1. I quit my office job.

Worked there for about 7 years. I saved some money and got unemployment benefits (60% of my previous salary) so I had 1 year to do nothing.

2. I did some OSS stuff

OSS teams are almost all remote and they love contributors. So it's not hard to find some and ... well contribute?

It's an easy way to get into a remote team.

I didn't do it for long, because I don't like maintenance dev stuff, which working on Firefox stuff basically is if you a contributor for Mozilla, haha.

3. Do some remote studying

I started a master in computer science at a remote university here in Germany. They had two mandatory programming projects I had to do with a remote team of other students.

We did much coordination via slack, hangouts etc.

This was also a good way to get into the remote workflow.

4. Post your CV online and wait

I saved money for 2 years, so after one year of OSS and remote projects, I posted my CV on some recruiting sites (Angellist, Stackoverflow, etc.) and waited.

Took 3 months till I started my first remote job. Talked to 5-6 companies. Some never called back, some took 2 months to tell me they want/don't want me.

5. Worked remote for 2 years

I worked remote for 2 years in a startup that was about 300km away from me. Went there every 2 months for a day or two. They were rather picky with their remote employees and always tried to persuade me into working in-office. One day they they lost a investor and had to let a few people go, since I was the only remote guy left, I guess they simply wanted to get rid of me, haha. So I got fired.

6. Started freelancing

With >2 years of remote experience and >10 years of general developer experience, I started freelancing.

Got 2 projects. One I found by pure luck online in some project small directory and one in the company where my girlfriend works. Both don't care how and where I work.

[gozur88]

>One day they they lost a investor and had to let a few people go, since I was the only remote guy left, I guess they simply wanted to get rid of me, haha. So I got fired.

That's my concern with fully remote work. You're not at the office, so only the people who work with you directly even know your name, and you don't form a personal connection with anyone. Even the people you work with directly have only seen you a handful of times.

When the time comes to cut someone loose, you're the obvious candidate unless your work is head-and-shoulders above the other people. It's a lot harder to fire people when you've been swapping stories about the kids and how about that game and whatever over the watercooler for any length of time.

[expertentipp]

> I saved some money and got unemployment benefits (60% of my previous salary) so I had 1 year to do nothing.

Well thanks, I'm out. In most of the world after quitting job one has literally nothing but savings, and even registering as an unemployed (to get the mere public health insurance) is not trivial.

[taway_1212]

Unrelated, but in Germany you get unemployment benefits after you quit a job? Wow.

[codingdave]

Honestly, I didn't even know my first remote job was going to be remote. I applied for it like any other job, and it wasn't until the end of the 1st phone interview that they told me it was a remote position. Their take on it was they wanted people applying because they wanted the job, not because they wanted remote work.

In other words -- if you are looking too hard for remote work, that could be exactly what is holding you back. Look for the jobs that match your skills and background first. Then from those jobs that you know are a good match, prioritize the ones that are remote.

[jahbrewski]

Network. Getting a remote job is similar to getting any other job, and people hire those they like and trust. If the term "networking" scares you, just think if it as making friends. You can do this any number of ways: participating in online forums, attending meet ups, engaging people on social media, etc. Figure out where the people that are doing the hiring for whatever position you want are hanging out and just be friendly towards them. That's my 2 cents!

[ninjakeyboard]

Specialize - how can you compete in a market of PHP backend devs when you want to work remote?

Be a Distributed systems specialist. Or a machine learning guru. write a book, go talk at meetups and get them posted online. You need a differentiating factor.

If you think people are going to trust you to work remote because you have 3 years of PHP backend experience, you're wrong. You need to be trusted in the greater community, to have presence. If anything you should be landing gigs through referrals, not applying with your CV. So how do you get from point a to b? network. Meet people. Go to lots and lots of meetups and talk at them.

[Nadya]

I worked on-site and became a Very Valuable Individual. I then told my manager that I'm moving out of the country and would love the opportunity to continue my work remotely.

In other words, I controlled more bargaining chips. I feel that is going to need to be true for any remote position. You need to be experienced and valuable enough that letting you work remotely is worth having you over someone on-site (for non-remote cultures).

For remote-cultures, the talent pool interested in remote work and the sheer number of people interested in it makes it far more competitive. As deedubaya said in their earlier response. You need to show without-a-doubt why they should choose you over anyone else. The competition is more fierce.

[apineda]

In my case I freelanced/contracted for 2 years before applying for a full remote gig. Those contract gigs gave me a diverse set of skills to show off on my resume. It did help immensely that prior to those 2 years freelancing I worked for 3 years as a intermediate dev for a company that in the last 6 months of my time there went into remote friendly. I took that opportunity to travel to Europe for 2 months which got me in the front page of one of our national newspapers. That factoid that I include in my resume catches a lot of attention and engenders a lot of trust. I've been working remotely for 6 months now a this new gig and it's been great. :)

[tluyben2]

Not sure if it works everywere but working on site for company and then discussing, after a few months, if that would work remotely, seems to work for friends of mine. I never had an on site job in my life (I am 42) and I try to be good at things that are hard to find. As PHP webdev, most companies I know would hire you if you reliably get shit done. Reliably churn out results 6.5 hours per day for 5 days/week. Not many people can do that; actually I meet very little who can. A colleague of mine makes business dashboards in PHP: he creates and maintains enormous heaps of the most boring stuff. But he does it, day after day, year after year and that is worth a lot. Adhd coders that want to code in some new thing are more common, as are stuck coders who have the productivity of a snail and need a lot of handholding. Just sit and do it is worth a lot but you need to get your name out and that happens when you work onsite first or are able to market yourself online for that role.

[kinetik-pro]

Awww this feels like a fresh shave, so many answers. Thanks a lot!

A month ago I didn't even have any web presence because I didn't need it. Since then I've polished my CV, made web portfolio, and every few hours I check each site that posts Remote/Freelance jobs. . .

[eddd]

Relocate to a tech hub (Dublin in my case) and find a job where working remotely is possible, but be on the site for a few months to prove yourself that you are effective when remote. Start full time on site and gradually move to be remote.

[ptasker]

Yep as been mentioned, it's obviously a lot more difficult to get remote gigs. I probably applied to around 20 places over the course of 6 months. Some I heard back from, some I declined, and most I never heard a peep. I've got almost a decade of experience too, but it's just that competitive.

- You need to stand out, have a decent Github profile and/or solid code samples that you can share

- Demonstrate the ability to work autonomously

- Be patient, it takes time.

It's also worth mentioning that if you do get rejected ask them what you can work on. Helps to know what you can do to bet better and get a remote gig later!

Source: working remote for the past year

[etjossem]

Work for a company that has several offices that are geographically spread out. This is a good indicator that the company has already developed the necessary prereqs (good code collaboration tools, everything is a videoconference by default, annual all-company occasions, travel policies that make cross-team sessions easy) to accommodate remote work. Once you know they have the pieces in place, remote work is a really easy sell. Sell it to your manager/director, not HR.

I would not want to work remotely for a company that hasn't gotten used to distributed workers yet.

[jbuss]

I have worked remotely for just about 1 year right now. This answer may not please you, but I became remote by starting on-site for the company I now work remotely for.

After about 2 years of working in the office I told my manager that I would be moving to another state and that I was interviewing for remote positions. I also said I would stop interviewing if they gave me the ability to work remotely, which they did (and I was very, very happy to stay). It is going to be difficult to find your first remote job, but this is how I did it.

[savanaly]

I know this probably isn't the route you can go down, but I'll share my story since it's one more data point.

The company I'm working for is fairly distributed across the globe, and a lot of the computer engineers are part time remote (three days at home, two days at office, say). But typically no one is fully remote at this company. I came to work on site at a city where they had an office and a few employees but it was a satellite office and I worked there for a year or so. Then the boss that was managing that office left the company and they decided to let the remaining workers from that city go full remote (it was just two of us and they didn't want to continue paying for an office for just two of us). Since I was going to be full time remote anyways I kept working for them but I can live whereever I want so I just relocated back to my hometown.

I did have to push at one or two points to ensure I ended up full time remote, but mostly it was luck, in other words. This company knows I'm a good worker and responsible from my year working on site so that may be why I can get away with the full time remote whereas for new people joining a company I can see how it would be a hard sell.

[djheru]

I started working remotely with a background similar to what you describe. Your best bet is to find or negotiate a local position that will allow you to be remote part-time, and then demonstrate that you are able to work effectively remotely. Then, over time, try to increase the amount of time spent working remotely. After a while, you'll hopefully be working remotely ~80% of the time. For me, that was good enough for a long time. If not, you can find a new (remote) job, and you'll be able to demonstrate a track record of working remotely, which is understandably very important to your prospective employer.

[kejaed]

I've often thought about starting a job board / remote contract hiring firm specifically for this area. Pair people who are looking for their first step into a remote job with companies that are willing to test people out a bit for perhaps some discount or some other reason. The firm could help screen applicants for remote suitability, train them up a bit on what it really is like to work remotely, and then pair with companies. The firms would understand that while the worker may not have worked remotely before, they have been screened and are willing to give it a good shot. Thinking maybe a 6 month contract to start and then the option to turn permanent.

[_ao789]

To be honest, this is actually a very interesting post and question. As even myself (fullstack dev for over 15 years) has tried to do this and failed. I therefore tend to move between fortune500 companies and make as much money as possible while contracting so that I can (in a while) create my own 'remote company'. I just decided that given how much of a challenge it is to get decent remote work, perhaps the best option is to create my own. Anyone interested in joining me in this venture?

[namanyayg]

What efforts have you actually made? How many jobs have you applied to? Have you polished your online portfolio and CV the best you could? Does googling you get high-quality results across various social media/news outlets?

The above are just a few questions to start off with. You'll find better answers once you give a better idea of what you've got going and what you're already doing.

[vwochnik]

Work in the office and demonstrate that you are competent and can work autonomously. Then ask if you canwork remote. This worked for me.

[cl0wnshoes]

same story here as well.