Ask HN: How does one overcome the need for instant gratification?

[sidcool]

...in the context of programming and problem solving. For me, it becomes intensely boring and border line ADHD while pondering over a complex problem that requires some dedicated attention without worrying about the end result. Instead, I end up taking the easiest solution that may solve the problem only partially, just for the instant gratification it gives. Needless to say, this is harmful for important decisions.

I believe this has come from years of INSTANT dopamine rushes from social media and Hacker News.

How do you avoid it?

[strawcomb]

Some things I'd recommend, off the top of my head:

- Do not grab phone/computer etc. and mindlessly browse first thing in the morning. (Or before bed. Or at any time really.) But doing it first thing really starts your day on the wrong foot.

- When seeking to relax, do not mindlessly browse the internet/social-media/tv. Read an enjoyable book. This is an order of magnitude more fulfilling and beneficial to you. And genuinely more relaxing: screens are stimulating, and might let you 'relax' in the sense that you can momentarily be completely absorbed in something 'other', and forget your day to day life; but they don't relax you in the sense of being calm and contemplative (in general, in my experience).

- Reduce instant gratification from as many areas as possible. Do things that are rewarding longer term. Like reading, cooking, growing plants, hiking, etc.

- Cut video games.

- Block facebook + reddit + sites you waste a lot of time on, from main computer. Maybe have a secondary device you use to access these sites, for a set period each day (I recommend this mainly because it can be quite difficult to maintain a social life without facebook, (which is a terrible state of affairs)). Have days where you don't go onto these sites at all.

- Spend as little time on screens as is possible -> if you can work on paper do so

- have a regular exercise regime. eg. swim/run. Doing first thing in the morning really helps set your day on the right track, you have already exerted a good amount of self discipline, and achieved something, and this makes it easier to continue being disciplined.

- I recommend reading 'The Power of Habit'.

[chrishynes]

"Do not grab phone/computer etc. and mindlessly browse first thing in the morning..."

Expanding on this... Don't use mindless browsing as a filler at all. Ever.

If your build is gonna take a minute, don't reflexively switch over to Facebook/email. Sit there and think/meditate. Stand up or do some pushups.

Browsing Facebook is fine when that's the activity you're doing. Set aside some Facebook browsing time, timebox it, and stick to that.

"multitasking" is the devil. Don't do it. Better to be blank and let your mind rest for a moment instead of trying to timeslice something in. Focus on each thing separately and you'll end up more productive and efficient and also feel more personally gratified after accomplishing specific tasks one by one vs. a mishmash of "multitasking" where you're not really sure what you even did at the end of the day.

[danesparza]

Strangely, this sounds like adults that I observed as a teenager. I always wondered how they could survive in such a boring existence.

Now I know they were just more evolved than I was :-)

[jvkersch]

I agree with this and other suggestions to seek for deeper habits. In addition, I'd suggest keeping a journal of what deeper habits you develop: when I'm tempted to kill some time browsing or watching cat videos, I look at my notes (both in a journal and as Emacs org files), give myself a little pat on the back, check some things on the list, and write down a little more of what I've been doing. I find that doing some "gardening" on my notes is useful in the long and provides me with a small dopamine hit in the moment.

[thinbeige]

I so much agree wih your post. All your advice is right and should help but there is one thing I am wondering:

Why are you on Hacker News?

Reading and in particular commenting which is an instant gratification activity (quick post, many likes paired with non-stop checking of the thread).

Is this not against your advice or is it the end of the work day in your time zone?

[basdevries]

Really good advice. I tried blocking some sites but whenever my 'bad side' comes up again, I always find a way to get around the block and visit the site anyway. Any recommendations on blocking a site indefinitely?

[beat]

Along these lines, I switched my book-reading back to paper. It really helps.

[eeZah7Ux]

> already flexed your self discipline muscle

...what? Is there any evidence that self discipline needs to warm up?

[andai]

I'm surprised no one mentioned meditation yet!

A regular meditation practice helps with impulse control (sitting still for X minutes requires exercising self control) and that will help with resisting the urge to do tasks which are immediately gratifying, which will free up time and energy for activities which lead to long term growth.

Two things really helped me with meditation: setting a timer, and meditating every day.

Insight Timer (not affiliated) helped with both of these, keeping track of how many days in a row you've meditated, and allows you to set daily reminders.

There are also guided meditations available (in the app or YouTube if you prefer) if you are just starting out.

Best wishes!

[bargl]

This is one of the two things I miss about my more religious days as a younger man.

I would pray a lot and it was a great way to run through things I was both thankful for and the people in my (pray for) list who I needed to reach out to and make sure they were OK. I cut it because I stopped thinking it had an affect on the external world, but should have kept it because of how it affected me internally.

I also miss the community, but you can get that elsewhere it's just harder for me personally.

[rdslw]

This is very good book teaching about mediation in a geeks way: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Inside-Yourself-Unexpected-Ach...

Highly recommended.

[vanderreeah]

Insight Timer looks good but - to hijack a little bit - how does it make money?

[Delmania]

You don't. There are some great suggestions in this thread. I would definitely recommend reducing social media usage, random browsing, picking up meditation, sleeping, and looking to learn new skills. None of those will overcome or avoid the need for instant gratification because seeking dopamine rushes is something we do no matter what. You need to change what gives you the rush. Define the end goal, break up the project into chunks, and then award yourself when you complete a chunk. This is how video games work, they divide up long-range goals into chunks, and then award you for those chunks. I'm currently training for my second-degree black belt. I have no idea when I will get it, so instead, I focus on daily practice which gives me the hit, which then combines with the long range pleasure of knowing that so long as I continue to practice and improve, I will get promoted.

Before you ask yourself how can I avoid something, it's better to ask yourself how you can use it to improve yourself. Fighting against something drains your willpower and you only have a limited amount.

[kichuku]

I too second the recommendation for "Deep Work" by Carl Newport (http://calnewport.com/books/deep-work/ ). This is one book which is a must-read for all the current generation technology workers like us. I started reading this book about two weeks back and I have finished reading 90% of the book. Already I am seeing tremendous improvement in my day-to-day life.

[shoover]

Yep. This book develops a solid basis for why this matters and offers many practical techniques for implementation, including seriously questioning whether each and every online service you visit is truly required to support your work and who you are, and ditching the ones that aren't.

A key tip from the book is to practice building resistance to caving. Set a time limit for the next time you will check. However short that limit needs to be is fine; the key is to build resistance and extend it. The book argues you need to maintain this ability to resist during off hours, too. It's fine to have long sessions of surfing online and do it more often than during work, but continuing to set limits and resist the urge to just grab it and check is important for not losing everything you may have built up during the day or week.

There is a whole section and recurring theme on the finite, depletable nature of willpower and the end to set up a routine to build habits to protect your willpower reserves. It's very tactical.

I found the many examples of real people applying the principles to their personal situations inspirational, such as from the author himself, professor colleagues, Carl Jung, Don Knuth, and various business and tech folks he interviewed.

[bitexploder]

Cal Newport (not Carl) -- just in case anyone is searching by author.

Thirded. Read his book. Do what he says.

[chasely]

Cal also did a recent podcast with Ezra Klein (formerly of Washington Post and now leading Vox) about his book and the ideas behind it [0].

I'm skeptical of most "self-help" and business books but Deep Work was helpful for me and I come back to the book any time I feel myself slipping. I admit I may be biased towards his work since he is a theoretical CS professor [1] who happens to write books about work and productivity.

[0] https://soundcloud.com/panoply/cal-newport-on-doing-deep-wor...

[1] https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=EhodjeAAAAAJ&hl=en

[nequalstim]

that book is incredibly good! Especially, since he earned enough street credibility as a Computer Science professor compared to other self-help/productivity/life coach gurus

[kichuku]

The exact answer to your question is explained in this book and Carl calls it as "Deep Work".

[matt4077]

Several thoughts, somewhat unsorted:

- There could be an underlying medical problem. Mild depression often has low willpower as the most noticeable effect. If it's not too much of a hassle, maybe get your thyroid checked. And whatever works for depression should usually work for your problem as well, exercise unfortunately being the most effective

- If what you're doing really doesn't interest you, it doesn't make much sense to see a pathology where everything is working as intended. Try something new (as a hobby maybe) that requires similar levels of engagement, and see if the problem persists. If not, it's time for tough decisions.

- There's a theory that willpower works much like a muscle. There's a book about that phenomenon, but it really doesn't have much more content than the last sentence. It's one of those results that I don't completely trust, but trying it out doesn't cost much: do anything that requires willpower regularly, and see if you improve. The examples from the book were really small interventions, such as brushing your teeth with the non-dominant hand. After three weeks or so, people were significantly more likely to successfully stop smoking, compared to the control group. That's a rather big effect.

- Try reducing your work hours. Being "always on" just drains your resources. Start with restricting your daily work hours to something like 3h or even less, and only expand again if you're productive in those hours.

- Somehow get your hands on ADHD meds (or, you know, the generic alternatives that fuel the bitcoin boom). You'll be as focussed as you ever wanted to be, and even a one-time experience can be helpful, by reminding you what it actually feels like to be "in the zone".

[brango]

> Somehow get your hands on ADHD meds

Are you a qualified medical doctor?

[exabrial]

* Temperance: Restricting yourself in things. Try it: find a vice. Now stop doing it.

* Integrity: Doing the right thing, when no one is looking, or "when it doesn't matter"

Example: Yesterday, Amazon accidentally discounted a $3.5k guitar to $112. It was widely publicized and hundreds of them were purchased. Some people go theirs shipped. Is this right or wrong? After all, it's just "pennies" to a company like Amazon. Answer: yes it's wrong.

* Self-discipline: Do you work out? Force yourself to work out 2x a week. Stick to the schedule. Do you play an instrument? Force yourself to practice multiple times a week.

These things were beat into me as a kid by a pair of "tough love" parents. I cannot thank them enough.

[sidcool]

Thanks for this.

[degenerate]

Non-ironically, I watch this video every couple months to remember all my problems are first-world problems and I need to remember how good I have it:

https://vimeo.com/69662330

That helps with the instant gratification problem for me.

[nemacol]

I watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI http://www.metastatic.org/text/This%20is%20Water.pdf

This is Water - David Foster Wallace Commencement Speech.

I watch this from time to time for a similar reasons.

[mxschumacher]

Don't watch porn (nofap). It is one of the worst habits of instant gratification

[pjc50]

> taking the easiest solution that may solve the problem only partially, just for the instant gratification it gives.

This isn't necessarily bad. "YAGNI", after all.

In a work programming context, if you're trying to work up the motivation to do it properly rather than hack it, can I suggest a variant on "rubber duck debugging"? Simply find a more diligent co-worker and discuss the short and long solutions. When they say you should do the long one, agree with them.

Bang! Now you're socially committed to the non-instant solution. It's like having a running buddy. Or the old joke about why are mountaineers roped together: to stop the sensible ones going home.

[corobo]

> socially committed

I've found the opposite to be true unfortunately. I can work on a project for hours and hours but the moment I say something about it to a friend, coworker, spouse the motivation to complete it just dies. Very odd effect and sucks when you're trying to release a product MVP

[bitL]

Well, think twice if you really want to go that way. From my own repeating experience, you spend years working on some insanely difficult problem, making you feel miserable all the time, then once you accomplish it you have your 15 minutes of chemical euphoria in your brain; in a week or so everybody around you starts treating it as nothing interesting anymore, and your bosses induce themselves even daily a similar feeling you had from your accomplishment by snorting cocaine, inflating their egos. In addition, all the "easy problem, low hanging-fruit" solvers that rank high in popularity contests will overtake you.

[titzer]

> all the "easy problem, low hanging-fruit" solvers that rank high in popularity contests will overtake you.

I laugh at myself, heartily, merrily, humbly. I am in my low place. Maybe they laugh at me, maybe they hate themselves, maybe they don't even exist.

[jyriand]

1) You could try doing TDD. Each passing test will give you instant gratification. You could even try doing Acceptance Test-Driven Development. Basically you start by writing end-to-end test and implementing minimal code to make it pass. After that you will go one level deeper etc. I would suggest reading "Growing Object-Oriented Software Guided by Tests", this will give you a good overview of the method.

2) Also, if you can choose language to work with, you can try languages that allow you to work in the REPL. That way you can have instant feedback loop and feel satisfied even when you get some small functions working.

3) Pomodoro technique.

[erikb]

Addictions can't be unlearned, in my experience. It's more like training a muscle. And like with body training it's an additional habit. So if you are addicted to instant gratification when programming, you need to learn an additional habit of keeping to go on. The longer you do it, the easier it becomes. But it will always cost energy. And when you stop training that muscle restarting will become harder again.

Your question contains a second part: The question for motivation to continue training despite having no internal motivation. I'm not good enough in that department to give a short, precise answer yet.

[maneesh]

Sure they can. You ever see someone drink too much tequila, get sick, and never want it again? Or go to mcdonalds, see a cockroach, and never go again?

It's called an aversion, and aversion therapy was a common method of habit cessation through the mid 90s. Check out this study on how >50% of 2-pack a day smokers quit smoking after just 6 sessions:

https://www.schickshadel.com/documents/Commercial_Stop_Smoki...

[ciaphascain]

Sometimes you have to harness your perceived weakness and turn it into a strength.

Sure, meditation and exercise and reading on paper are great overall lifestyle changes that will help in the long run, but that's not what I see you asking about.

Two things I think can help you immediately:

1) Timers. Set a timer if you're working on a hard problem. 10 minutes focus, 5 minutes to fuck around, rinse, repeat (work/break times are up to you, just start somewhere). Personally, I notice that the "it's only 10 minutes and then I can take a break and look at cat pictures!" is enough to temporarily short circuit the "instant gratification" I want. Before you know it, you'll find yourself annoyed when the 10 minutes is up because you broke your train of thought. Time to add another 5 minutes. Then 5 more. It's important to reward yourself for your work, even if it just means you went 10 minutes without checking Reddit.

2) If you can't shake the feeling and need to just solve the problem and move on, that's fine. Figure out a way that works for you to revisit the problem. Make a note in a journal? Give yourself a calendar reminder? Put in a ticket detailing what you still feel needs to be done so it can be added to your next agile cycle? It's up to you. It's okay to implement temporary/bad solutions and revisit later.

Don't be too hard on yourself and don't let anybody tell you that you're doing to little. Start somewhere an iterate. This is self-improvement and in this context nobody else matters but yourself. Good luck!

[laktek]

I recommend reading Deep Work by Cal Newport. There are some good techniques explained in it.

[sidcool]

Just bought a hard copy. Thanks.

[terrib1e]

By realizing that there isn't enough instant gratification in the entire universe to satisfy that void in you. But a less melodramatic way is to learn to frame things differently. I agree it's a rush to create something that functions even if it doesn't solve the problem in it's entirety, but why stop there? A polished product is much more interesting and satisfying than a sample of one. I don't think there's anything wrong in hacking together a program, in fact it's probably a great way to begin a project, but you'll feel so much more fulfilled and the high will last so much longer, if you take your basic machine and add jet engines to it. By doing things the way you are you've basically created the end result so now .you can work on refactoring the best way of getting there. A bunch of little dopamine rushes is fun, but why settle for that when you can bathe in perma-rush?

[Powerofmene]

In order to stop the time drains in my life, endless browsing of the internet, venturing down rabbit holes when I would read something, etc. I had to initially set a schedule for internet activities. I had to do that for about a month in order for me to break the habit of distracting activities when I needed to do other things.

Willpower works for some, not for others, but the bottom line, willpower will only get you so far and if you keep testing it, it will let you down at some point. Get up from the computer and take a short walk, do some form of light exercise or maybe just meditatefor a few moments so that you can refocus. Sometimes just stepping outside for a couple of minutes to enjoy the refresh air and sunshine will let you go back to your project refocused and ready to get after it.

Find what works for you and when you find yourself drifting into things that waste your time, remove yourself for the reset that works for you.

[taylorjacobson]

Practice.

I repeat versions of these mantras in my head:'

- Always do your best work

- It's not done until it's done 100%

I also find it's helpful to chunk things down so that I can bite off a smaller piece without wanting to be done with the larger project of which it is a part. But, I strive for excellence in that part, and often can leverage that momentum to keep going.

[shoover]

Putting my phone in another room while I'm working does wonders.

For rationale to steele your resolve for pursuing your question, see this jblow comment for the ages [1] and the comments on Deep Work.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7789438

[pookeh]

Solve the problem on paper including writing code, even if it is pseudo code. Once you have a good grasp of the problem and your hands are just twitching for a keyboard move over.

I find that whenever I am unfocused but have a big problem to solve doing the paper exercise for 30 min to 1 hour greatly help me focus throughout the rest of the day.

ymmv

[trevyn]

Something to consider: Trying to hold onto the systems and methods of the past is one way in which people lose relevance as they age.

Personally, I embrace the dopamine rush provided by small tangible units of progress, but I make sure that some of these units include refactoring and reworking design decisions, which also provide a tangible sense of progress. (And improves your skills in these areas!)

I believe this is an overall better system than trying to build a perfect artifact from the start -- too often you're actually solving the wrong problem, even if your solution ends up being elegant.

Scott Adams has some good writing on choosing to do the thing that gives you the most energy, which for me is very often something quick and dirty, and I love it.

[titzer]

> Something to consider: Trying to hold onto the systems and methods of the past is one way in which people lose relevance as they age.

I'll bite. The older I get, the more I realize how stupid it is to throw out the systems and methods of the past without understanding them first.