Ask HN: Should I provide salary history after an accepted offer?

[thrwymcthrwface]

I've received a written offer from a BigCo that I've accepted, and we've now proceeded to the background check stage.

They've contracted with a third party to perform a background check, and part of the employment verification step requires previous salaries and dates of employment. I have an issue with providing my salary history as I've received large increases last time I switched and this time as well (>40%), and I'm concerned they'll lower my agreed-upon salary after seeing the results of the report (as I seriously doubt it's a binary yes/no from the third-party).

Since I have not previously disclosed my salary history during the interview process, my plan is to bend the rules of allowable characters in the salary field to provide a null value and supply heavily redacted W-2s / paystubs as supporting documentation (in lieu of allowing them to contact my previous employers directly).

I'm wondering--Is this a sound plan? Would you do something different? Am I being overly-cautious with information I perceive to be confidential and irrelevant in my background check given I already have an accepted offer?

[patio11]

You would supply supporting documentation? Why on earth would you do that?

I'd write $1 for previous salaries, let the human figure out that it is obviously an error, and say "That's confidential." when asked, in the unlikely event that was asked. Your new employer is not performing the background check to get permission to hire you. They've already made the decision to hire you. If a blip pops up in the background check, that's going to be HR's minor emergency, not yours.

(Why do employers do background checks? In most cases, so that they never have to say in the future "No, we don't do background checks." Consider the case where an employee embezzles a large amount of money from the firm. One of the first questions they'll be asked by various aggrieved parties is "Did you do minimal due diligence when hiring like background checks?" and if that answer is "No." then regardless of the contents of the hypothetical background check on that employee they're in a bad way.)

Your old employers will generally verify employment in the most minimal manner possible. You'd have to pull teeth to get anything more than dates and titles from a lot of firms; anything more than that a) gets them absolutely nothing to provide and b) exposes them to liability.

bend the rules of allowable characters in the salary field to provide a null value

DO NOT HACK THE WEBSITE OF THE BACKGROUND CHECK COMPANY YES I AM SHOUTING.

[gkoberger]

To expand on this slightly, patio11 (the guy who wrote this comment^^) has written a phenomenal post about hiring that's a must-read: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

[thrwymcthrwface]

Thanks for the advice and the insight :) I'll uncheck the boxes preventing them from contacting former employers and rely on them restricting info to dates and titles.

> DO NOT HACK THE WEBSITE OF THE BACKGROUND CHECK COMPANY YES I AM SHOUTING.

ducks Yeah, this was a dumb idea. I'll avoid the form validation antics.

[eganist]

> DO NOT HACK THE WEBSITE OF THE BACKGROUND CHECK COMPANY YES I AM SHOUTING.

This law is broken more frequently than it should be.

[ovi256]

>DO NOT HACK THE WEBSITE OF THE BACKGROUND CHECK COMPANY YES I AM SHOUTING.

Especially now that he's documented his intention to do so on the public internet, which could add charges like conspiracy and wire fraud.

[cbanek]

> as I seriously doubt it's a binary yes/no from the third-party

Actually, this is most likely what it is. Checking on employment history, they just need your name really, and the company should be able to say you worked there or not, and the dates. Providing dates is just helpful to match up to your resume. They don't need your salary to be able to verify employment history - I've never heard of this before. The company will say you worked there or not. They may also say if they fired you or you resigned. Anything other than that seems pretty unlikely.

Part of the reason for this is liability. If this happened, and you got paid less all of a sudden (or didn't get the job), you could possibly sue your former employer. I think this is why references these days are not at the company level, but you provide your own references.

I think it's just as likely that you got the job without having to fill out a salary / job history (because you sound smart, and they obviously like you), and this is just them catching up on paperwork. I wouldn't put the salary in, and see if they even bring it up. My bet is they won't.

Also, and this is important, make sure you have their offer in writing with the salary clearly spelled out. If you've already signed a written offer letter, I think it'd be very questionable of them (legally, morally, ethically) to change the terms. Especially before you've started (where they can make up some reason why they don't want to pay you that much).

Congrats on the new job and the pay raise!

[masukomi]

yes. these background check companies suck. I almost didn't get a job because the company doing the background check couldn't be bothered to get off their ass and deal with a company that went bust in the dot com crash. They just said i was lying rather than actually taking the time to do research and see that the company didn't exist anymore for a good reason.

I documented my BS experience here http://weblog.masukomi.org/2007/06/22/the-trials-and-tribula...

[jdenning]

I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago with a large company. They wanted 1099's as I had been an independent contractor for years -- I refused to provide any tax info on principle; however, my skill-set is in high demand, and I had other competing offers.

The hiring manager really wanted me, so he argued with HR until they waived the requirement for me. I think it was kind of a pain in the ass for him, so I think it comes down to how much the manager is willing to fight for you.

Edit: I always refuse to allow employers:

  - financial/credit checks

  - drug testing / medical information
  
  - salary verification

I always explain this to recruiters - I can pass any of these checks, but I think they are immoral; since my skills are in high demand, I try to fight the battle for those who don't have as much negotiation strength. I don't believe that any of this information is relevant for employment, and these types of checks tend to hold back people who are already struggling.

[cr0sh]

> financial/credit checks, drug testing

There are sound reasons for these kinds of checks; you may not entirely agree with them, but they do exist. For certain industries, it is almost mandatory to use them.

They all basically exist as proxies for determining how honest or trustworthy a person is. Can the person being hired be trusted to keep our proprietary information confidential? Can they be trusted not to pawn their laptop? Can they be trusted not to sell company secrets to someone they owe a favor to?

Questions like that can be somewhat answered by the results of such tests. If, for instance, they have a bad credit score, it may mean that they run up high bills on their credit cards, and don't pay off the balance in time, or miss payments. Why would that be, if they are being payed a decent salary? Could they be coerced by someone to lend them money in exchange for say - a list of passwords to some servers? Or a dump of the database?

Drug testing is the same way; if they test positive for an illegal drug, that right there is a huge red flag that says to the employer "this person is in contact with people doing illegal things" - and again, coercion or extortion are possible here.

Depending on the employer, these proxies may or may not be overkill. As I noted above, you can make valid justifications for them even in a white-collar software engineering role. It should go without saying that for certain roles (financial, medical, heavy equipment) that having a trustworthy employee can mean the difference between "life or death" of the company, liability risks, or injury/death of the employee or fellow employees.

[jzl]

New York City just recently passed a law banning salary history inquiries. I hope that other cities and states start following suit. Good coverage of it here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/business/dealbook/job-sal...

The idea behind the new law, which was sponsored by the New York City public advocate, Letitia James, is to try to prevent pay inequality between men and women. According to an August 2016 study commissioned by Ms. James, women in New York State get paid, on average, only around 87 percent of what men get paid. Women in New York State earn collectively some $20 billion less annually than do men. In New York City, women get paid nearly $6 billion less than men annually.

This inequity gets memorialized not only when a woman starts a job but also when she switches jobs because until now employers were able to ask prospective employees how much they have been paid in the past. The pay inequity gets perpetuated year-to-year, person-to-person across industries.

[apohn]

For my last 3 jobs I've entered 0 (or $1 if 0 isn't allowed) as my past salary in online forms and blacked out my SSN, pay, taxes, etc on W2s and pay stubs. I usually just leave my name, date, and the company logo. I've had zero issues. Nobody has ever asked why I blacked it out or what was under there.

[cr0sh]

Curious - how are paid (and taxes taken out) if your employer doesn't know your SSN?

Unless you're a contractor and using a "company" tax ID number, or being paid "under the table" in cash, bitcoin, or other goods...?

[wai1234]

I am not a lawyer.

With that out of the way, you have already completed the negotiation phase of the process. They can't reopen the salary question without rescinding the offer completely. Why would they do that? They've already invested heavily in recruiting you and have offered a salary they must be comfortable with. To squeeze you now would make no sense. If they did that, you wouldn't want to work there anyway.

The third party is certainly some 'bcheck' company that services many clients that do require salary info as part of their negotiation process. They don't have a custom process for BigCo, so you got the generic form everyone gets, regardless of employer. They run a series of standard online checks, maybe call past employers and get only dates and title (no employer gives out salary data when asked), and forward the whole mess to BigCo HR. The bcheck company has no opinion in the matter. I'm guessing the only use for past salary data they might have is to judge how they are doing versus the market.

[maxxxxx]

"I'm concerned they'll lower my agreed-upon salary after seeing the results of the report"

Agreed upon is agreed upon. If they really try to lower your salary it's probably not a good place to work.

[jkern]

Keep in mind that if the company now feels like they're overpaying that may impact their future decisions about salary .

[hatred]

hmm, Is it that binary? What if the OP lied to get higher numbers from the prospective employer.

Usually, most employers do ask for your existing pay slip/old W2 along with your accepted signed offer letter to ensure due diligence.

[dmalvarado]

I would enter $1, as mentioned elsewhere.

"I noticed you entered $1 here. Can you please correct with your actual salary?"

Answers: "No"

"I'm sorry, but I do not share previous salary information"

"As a matter of principle, I won't be sharing previous salary information"

"Yes I'm aware that it is required, and I would love to work for BigCo, but I won't be sharing my previous salary information"

"I understand you need to enter salary information, but I do not share that information with any prospective employer. I sincerely hope we can move forward."

Notice that the reasoning for each response is "because I said so" and is not open to prying HR tactics. They will try hard to make you second guess yourself, they may revoke the offer. Stick to your guns, "No salary info. I'd love to work there. Let's move on."

[quickthrower2]

You have to be prepared to walk away from the offer though to make this work.

Which makes for some interesting game theory.

[chamza]

I fell in to this trap with 'BigCo'. I never gave my salary information to the recruiter, and kept my cards to my chest.

When I tried to negotiate my low-ball offer this docu was brought up, that she had taken a look at my past salary that was provided here. I would not fill this out if I could go back in time. That being said, this was provided prior to the salary offer.

[Jemmeh]

Don't get fancy with a null. Just put $0 or $1. If they ask about it say it's confidential. They already made you an offer, it's unlikely they'll do anything at this point. They want you to work there.

[ttlaxia]

Most of these sorts of forms I've seen in recent years have been online things that have some kind of input validation. In particular, the ones I've seen tend to be a drop box with choices like $20,000-$29,999...$30,000-$39,999... etc. And the form won't submit without making a choice. The point evidently being to leave no realistic choice but to tell them the truth.

[smileysteve]

> "I'm concerned they'll lower my agreed-upon salary after seeing the results of the report"

That would be a really easy reason for you to back out and to start out not happy with them. If they did this, I'd consider leaving immediately.

[grigjd3]

Not to mention that this kind of dirt gets around. Employers don't want to be viewed as bad employers.

[emodendroket]

I would be pretty surprised if they decided to reduce their offer after you'd already accepted it.

[nedwin]

My partner works in HR. If you have given them a salary figure previously and they do this check and find you have lied then they can withdraw their offer.

This is why this check is in with the background check and why you should never give salary history to a potential employer.

Null value FTW.

They will still contact your previous employer but all that they will confirm is whether you worked there, no one will give out your previous salary. And no, I wouldn't give any supporting docs as per patio.

[jfoutz]

> If you have given them a salary figure previously and they do this check and find you have lied then they can withdraw their offer.

this line should just read,

> they can withdraw their offer.

I'm pretty sure they can withdraw their offer at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

[thisisit]

It is not the BigCo which is asking for the info but the third party. You can refuse to share the information by writing "undisclosed" if it allows for text or just write 0. In case the BigCo wants the salary information let someone from the company contact your directly and discuss it.

[fred_is_fred]

I also had this happened with BigCo. I left it blank or if required entered $0. Nobody said anything about it.

[acjohnson55]

My decision would depend on how hungry I am. It's difficult for me to imagine being in a position where I would disclose previous salary information, at this point in my career. It's irrelevant. I should be paid what I'm worth to this company at the present moment, which has nothing to do with what I may have earned elsewhere.

I personally would not submit the form until I've had a conversation with someone. I'd tell them, in writing, I won't share my salary history, and then ask how I should proceed on the background check form without it. I would not submit a null value without giving them a heads up.

That said, if you really want or need the job, feel free to make an exception.

[kookiekrak]

I went through this when I received an offer to join a BigCo.

During the background check provided by the 3rd party, I actually filled in my STARTING, not FINAL salary for some of the previous companies that I worked for.

This actually came up in the final report as mismatches in my history since they actually do call up each company you provide information for, but nothing ever came of it.

I suggest that you not lie on a background check. The company will not renege on an already agreed on salary nor does a BigCo care how much they're paying you.

What they're looking for is honesty and that there are no glaring red flags in your personality or history.

[the_arun]

Isn't there a way to find your current salary by your future employer? For eg. I am making x$ per year today, could I say I am making 1.5(x) to my future employer and wouldn't he validate/verify it?

[bjt]

Only if the future employer asks the current employer for this information, and the current employer agrees to provide it. Both those things are unlikely in the US.

[matrix]

Just put one or zero in the salary field(s). No company worth working for is actually checking your salary history.

Resorting to entering '; DROP TABLE candidates; -- will definitely get your application rejected though.

[mattchamb]

I jist went through this. The company used a firm called HireRight. They wanted to confirm my employment history, and get info on my past salary. I left those fields empty, and redacted salary info from other documents I had to provide them. They also tried to get this info from my past employers, but no one in their right mind would disclose that to a random third party. This hasn't caused any problems for me - turns out they want to hire me more than they want that info.