>Does anyone try to retain developer talent these days?
There's a line of thought which assumes that an employee that's given notice has already mentally "checked out". Therefore, it's unwise to present counteroffers. Even if the manager persuades the employee to accept the counteroffer, it's inadvertently detrimental to the team because you have retained a disengaged mind that was eager to leave. To avoid all that, you wish them well with a smile and just let them leave.
Many companies follow that principle. It's important for a developer to know ahead of time if the company doesn't do counteroffers because if you're just fishing around for job offers with no intention of changing jobs, the company may call your bluff and let you leave.
"There's a line of thought which assumes that an employee that's given notice has already mentally "checked out". Therefore, it's unwise to present counteroffers"
That's just bullshit rationalization why they don't want to raise pay. Profits come first for most modern companies, and the rationale for action trickles down from that basic driving force.
Best engineers are coin operated and problem focused. If they get an offer, say, 20% better than their current package with the roughly same job otherwise, they would be blind fools not to leave. Talking in the general Big Co. environment, that is. In smaller companies with stronger ties other dynamics might kick in.
And, there is the situation of the gimme-more-money-or-I'm-gone bluff, of course.
I don't think there is any rational reason not to give a counteroffer to a solid contributor - if the offer is real and he's worth it. Political reasons might of course kick in, like a corporate policy, that have nothing to do with the individual contributors motivation or output.
Example: An employee has become bored in their current role, and a snoozing manager hasn't noticed in a while. If the employee hasn't been engaged by their manager then, sure, they'll look elsewhere. HR's (and the manager's manager) first question should be: have we offered this employee a different role outside of this project/team.
Not every employee who has given notice is completely "checked out". They may be frustrated in their current role where they might not have been given the right opportunities for more responsibility or higher profile projects. Asking the employee what their real issues are is the first step.
I'm definitely of that school of thought. I think if you're waiting to the point of a counteroffer to retain talent, you've already lost.
I think part of my job as a manager is to make sure that everybody is paid fairly all the time. For me that means benchmarking the salary structure to peer companies, a good career ladder, regular performance reviews, etc.
If one of my employees came to me and said, "A friend at company X said I could make $Y if I moved there", I'd definitely use that data to make sure our total package was fair. Hopefully we'd find we were already doing things well, but if not, I could easily see that research resulting in raises.
On the other hand, if somebody comes to me and says, "I already have an offer in hand from place X for $Y because I've been secretly job hunting for the last month," then I'd be very unlikely to counteroffer with more money. I'd certainly want to talk about why they were unhappy enough to start job hunting. Maybe there's a problem we weren't aware of or taking seriously enough. (And also I'd want to investigate how we hadn't discovered the problem until it was big enough they wanted to quit.) If we can solve that problem for them (and hopefully for other people, we should.
But if it's only a question of money when I think our pay is fair, then I wouldn't counter. One, I don't think money keeps anybody anywhere for long, so I'd expect the counter to be a bandaid. Two, either I have to change the whole salary structure to match or I've just made things less fair. That penalizes people who aren't as money-focused. Three, there are often reasons other places pay more on a cash basis. If somebody values cash more than other things I like to provide (e.g., working with good people, good work-life balance, more time available for learning, not having to clean up giant messes), then maybe they will be happier elsewhere.
And really, I'm fine with that. If somebody working for me would really be happier elsewhere, I'd rather help them find that next job. And if they won't be happier elsewhere but need to find that out for themselves, I'd rather have them feel welcome to come back.
Something I've wondered is whether this is basically a bluffing tactic: If an employee is persuaded that there will be no counteroffer, then it's more of an emotional hurdle to start the job search.
On the flip side, I was hired during a hiring freeze.
I would neverever counteroffer. To do so would crack Pandora's box wide open.
First of all, it is simply not a game that I am willing to play.
Secondly, the other team members will know about it (eventually) and will (eventually) try to do the same thing.
Overall, it would be detrimental to team cohesion and would undermine the culture that I want to build:- One that is focused entirely on solving the problem in front of us.
If a member of my team needed a pay rise (i.e. if they were expecting a child) then I would work energetically to represent them within the organisation to make sure that they get what they need -- but for their part I would expect them to interact with me honestly and not play silly games.
If the reason is something that money could solve, then I always encourage the company to offer more.
An example of this might be "I wasn't looking, still don't feel like I am. But company X asked me to look at a role, and I felt I shouldn't just ignore and it turns out they're offering $ and whilst I don't really want that role I would be a fool to decline it out of hand as that difference helps achieve <insert life goal>.".
In that case... if the company can do it, do it.
But if it's more "I went looking for something else and I hate this job, and this other stuff winds me up, but if you gave me all this extra money I'd suffer it a while longer"... then the company should wish you well and if they understand fully how toxic you now are to the team would let you leave that same day.
I really agree with this. Your exact example -- every detail -- happened to me a few years ago. I was offered a ~50% raise without really seeking it out. I went to my boss (with whom I had an excellent relationship) and explained the situation. I got the raise that day, and over two years later I've continued to get great raises/promotions, and it has become the best job I've ever had.
It is important to note that I was doing really important work at the company. I was probably not considered a "normal" employee.
I've found you are counter offered only if you are perceived to be "good" ie a key team member. I've also found it's normal in two situations. For small/medium sized companies there can be counter offers if no one has left in a while (ie year or two), and you are the first 1 or 2 "good" developers try to quit. After that they kind of give up.
The second situation is they're hemorrhaging staff, and will counter everyone, or proactively give raises to stem the tide.
I once took a counter offer that was nearly 50% of my salary. That was too much money to turn down.
> The second situation is they're hemorrhaging staff, and will counter everyone
That's probably how it happened to me. I gave my notice, and people looked worried and had hushed conversations. A couple of hours later, managers from other teams were offering me better roles, but I turned them down, because the reason I was leaving was that I didn't like the way the company had treated me up to that point.
The problem with companies that act like that is that if they believed I deserved a better position, the time to act was when I had made it known I was unhappy, not when I'd already made the decision to leave. I'd already applied for internal promotion a couple of months before, and they could have acted then instead of just never getting back to me.
I have seen counteroffers for people who were either underpaid or should have been promoted a long time ago. Once your salary is in line with your standing in the company I haven't seen counteroffers.
Several months ago I gave notice to my startup employer that I had accepted an offer at another company. I was asked if there was anything they could do to keep me. I said unless they doubled my (low) salary I wouldn't have much of an interest in staying.
I liked the people I worked with, I liked the work culture, and even liked what the company was building, but at the end of the day it was worth it for me to switch to working on "non-sexy" legacy tech at a large corporation and all the BS that comes with that for financial gain, stability, and benefits.
Do legacy tech at large corporation jobs actually provide stability? It seems you face a higher risk of outsourcing there than the risk of collapse at a Silicon Valley company with traction.
In my experience, factors include whether there are planned hiring freezes or organization structure changes, the critical experience of the developer for critical projects, and the level of understanding of the manager.
In many cases, if the business is advancing toward a downsizing, they might choose not to make a counteroffer and instead use the departure to fill a planned staffing reduction. This can pose serious issues for the manager when a business chooses such a course when their manpower was not originally slated for downsizing.
I've seen lower appetite for counteroffers in the "middle range" of maturity. When a team has begun to reject cowboy culture and tribal knowledge, embracing high levels of testing, documentation and automation there may be reduced interest in keeping someone for skill and knowledge. I've seen this behavior diminish when organizations reach a higher maturity level and are making a more sizable investment in long-term growth of their employees through things like training.
When serving as a manager, there are many cases where one might step in to ask the business not to make a counteroffer, such as: if the employee is relocating due to their spouse, if the employee determines remote work is not a good fit for themselves, or if the employee is seen to be making positive career steps forward which could not be matched in their current work environment. Many managers are big enough people not to try to hold their employees back.
There are of course many places I've not worked, and many possible cases I've not seen, but the above is my experience.
In addition to 'jasode's line of thought about employers not countering because giving notice means you've checked out, you should also understand the corollary, which is that even if you're retained through a counter, you might still be "damaged goods" and excluded from promotion, incentive compensation, and the most important projects.
There was, a dozen or so years ago, a notion that you should never accept a counteroffer for exactly this reason. Your employer would be buying optionality on retaining you. What they want isn't you, but the right to decide when to replace you and a longer grace period to do that in.
This definitely does happen; it happened explicitly to me in a previous job (I was told a few years after I left, a year or so after accepting a counter and then being marginalized).
In my experience there was always a counter offer, unless you are terrible :).
But I would strongly discourage you from taking it. Basically, the reason you are not at that salary/position yet, is because you are not recognized at that level by management. getting a bump via a counter offer will mean that you will be last in line for raises/bonus/promotions since you will be viewed as getting paid above your grade. This was what I observed as a manager at a big company during calibrations.
If you want a bump, ask your manager - where do you need the most help, what can i do to have a larger impact this cycle etc... - and do those things. If that is not enough, run :)
> In my experience there was always a counter offer, unless you are terrible :).
I wouldn't give a counter-offer to an employee if I know that I can't really offer a better salary or work environment, and it would be even undesirable for me to have him accept it as he would probably always have the thought of leaving haunting him afterwards.
Sometimes not receiving a counter offer is the opposite of being terrible. Yours is a terrible advice.
Two times, I accepted the counteroffer and stayed (for a while.) It didn’t have any adverse impact. I’m still at the company of the second counteroffer.
My experience is that big companies are typically quite rational about the whole thing. No hard feelings or anything, just business.
Haha, managers are like girlfriends/boyfriends. They take the first breakups personally. Then after a few more, they mature and wish you good luck on your next one.
If you give notice, you're saying "I'm at the end of my rope, I'm leaving".
If you go to management and say "I've been struggling with X, Y and Z can you help me?" then you're signaling that you trust the company to help you, wether that's workload, salary, etc.
Management that counter offer after giving notice is 9/10 trying to keep you around long enough to find a better replacement knowing that you'll leave again in the near future, or they'll boot you when the replacement is up to speed.
> If you give notice, you're saying "I'm at the end of my rope, I'm leaving".
No not usually. I don’t get why a group (techies) that fancies themselves so rational can’t understand simple economics. Giving notice means I have leverage with a better offer no more less. The reason for that may be hard for the current employer to fix or not. Often it is not hard for them to fix, especially in larger organizations. And often coming with a better offer in hand is the only way to signal that. We can wank about ideal managers and all that but that is not how the world works.
Varies widely depending on the individual situation of the developer, the company, the manager, and the relationship of the developer to everyone else, relative skill and experience, and countless other factors.
I haven't personally gotten any yet after 3 resignations in my professional career, but that may be because in all of them, I was leaving because I was already very sure, based on factors other than the salary, that I no longer wanted to work there.
Well, the first one, I might have been able to get a counter-offer or other change in working conditions if I had been fishing for it, but I had long been coming to the conclusion that I just didn't see myself there long-term.
There is a lot of discussion out there about getting and giving counter offers and whether or not you should accept one. One thing I would say to the companies/managers that I haven't seen much - if you have the budget and desire to keep the employee to make a counter-offer, why didn't you just give them that raise in the first place? Seems easier than letting them run around interviewing at other places and negotiating offers with other companies, just to save 10% or whatever of their salary for a year or two.
However, if you want to stay and it’s just about money or title I would suggest talking to your director of recruiting or engineering manager. In my experience, chatting with them and being honest saying like “I love the company, but I’ve gotten some verbal offers/interest from company X, Y, X and the package they’re offering + the challenges they want me to solve are very intriguing. I’m loyal, so I haven’t taken any interviews as I really want to solve challenges here but this looks like a great opportunity. What can we do to make my current role as competitive that these ones?”
You have to be willing to leave though, as they might just say nope and that’s the end of it.
I used that same tactic, along with a proposal of what I wanted to do/be paid, and got a hefty increase.
It costs a lot to find developers, then to hire good ones. It can be $5-20k + the domain knowledge you have so it’s not cheap to replace a good developer.
> It costs a lot to find developers, then to hire good ones. It can be $5-20k + the domain knowledge you have so it’s not cheap to replace a good developer.
My experience is different. Avalanche the expensive and experienced devs with more and more work until they signalize that the team requires upsizing, make them resign. Fish for students, contractors. Hire contractors exclusively through a chain of intermediaries, so their salary and employee rights will be minuscule and they will have no leverage to say "no" to the most ridiculous bullshit.
Please tell me there exist companies which appreciate their specialists, which offer a significant payrise to make them stay. I have yet to encounter and work for one.
It's common but it's a lose-lose situation; the employee will resent that she hasn't been paid what she was worth and will be afraid to be replaced at any moment and the employer will feel like the developer stays just for the money and will leave at any time if somebody else matches it.
1) Company knows they are going to eliminate a team within XX months. I'd take a huge counter (3x salary) to stay on to help shutdown a project or sell the company. 2-3x salary in these cases are fairly normal when a company gets sold and they just need help transitioning to the new parent company.
2) Company offers a severance package along with it. E.g., we'll give you a salary bump and a 12-month severance if we let you go without cause, within one year.
However, I've been on both sides, and I've offered a counteroffer to anyone who is leaving and I wanted to keep. Any company who doesn't do that probably doesn't have good developers who are constantly getting recruited on LinkedIn.
There's a difference between "this offer shows that I'm underpaid in my current position" and "I decided to move on for a variety of reasons."
An employee who gives me solid market data, and is a good performer who likes the current position, does me a favor if they let me know I missed the memo on current market.
In most companies, it's 2-4% pretty year into infinity, and if the overall market grows faster than that, independent research may be warranted.
Meanwhile, of someone gives notice, rather than starts a conversation, I'd be much more wary. If we don't have a good, open relationship already, a quick raise won't fix that.
Demand Media counter offered me a few times and I took it since the pay bump was substantial. The last one I told them they had to bring the rest of the people on my team up to my level. Once they did I quit for good. Take that DM.
Very very common. One could be asking for a raise, promotion, project change etc for months. Then when a resignation is tendered, counteroffers start to trickle in. Upon enquiring why so, they grin like the Grinch.
I also believe that developer availability is going to soon outspeed demand. Revel while we get the importance.
Its a shame it has to come down to those games. Generally when asked what I was offered I quote something stupid to not get a counteroffer or pull off the biggest hustle of my life.
I don't think you should ever take counter offers if you previously asked for a raise and got no where.
To me a counter offer is basically saying "we got away paying you less than what you're worth to us and you finally called our bluff". That's why I'll never accept a counter offer.
Lol. They didn’t get away with anything. Unless you were sold as a slave you negotiated some terms mutually. Why the fuck would any party in a business transaction voluntarily pay more if they have no reason to believe that is necessary. Do you tell amazon that Walmart is selling the same item for $10 more so they can raise their price so you don’t “get away” paying a lower price than most likely what some people are paying?
There’s no bluff being called. This is simply the normal way for transaction participants to act rationally and in their best interests.
If the outside offer is for a similar role, just more money, then a counter offer is common. That's because if employees leave for the same job somewhere else, then you are not paying enough.
If the outside offer has a different role, or a different level of responsibility, then, it is difficult to make a counter offer. I've had more than a few developers leave for less money, sometimes allot less, because they wanted to do something different.
[+] [-] jasode|8 years ago|reply
There's a line of thought which assumes that an employee that's given notice has already mentally "checked out". Therefore, it's unwise to present counteroffers. Even if the manager persuades the employee to accept the counteroffer, it's inadvertently detrimental to the team because you have retained a disengaged mind that was eager to leave. To avoid all that, you wish them well with a smile and just let them leave.
Many companies follow that principle. It's important for a developer to know ahead of time if the company doesn't do counteroffers because if you're just fishing around for job offers with no intention of changing jobs, the company may call your bluff and let you leave.
[+] [-] fsloth|8 years ago|reply
That's just bullshit rationalization why they don't want to raise pay. Profits come first for most modern companies, and the rationale for action trickles down from that basic driving force.
Best engineers are coin operated and problem focused. If they get an offer, say, 20% better than their current package with the roughly same job otherwise, they would be blind fools not to leave. Talking in the general Big Co. environment, that is. In smaller companies with stronger ties other dynamics might kick in.
And, there is the situation of the gimme-more-money-or-I'm-gone bluff, of course.
I don't think there is any rational reason not to give a counteroffer to a solid contributor - if the offer is real and he's worth it. Political reasons might of course kick in, like a corporate policy, that have nothing to do with the individual contributors motivation or output.
[+] [-] ugh123|8 years ago|reply
Example: An employee has become bored in their current role, and a snoozing manager hasn't noticed in a while. If the employee hasn't been engaged by their manager then, sure, they'll look elsewhere. HR's (and the manager's manager) first question should be: have we offered this employee a different role outside of this project/team.
Not every employee who has given notice is completely "checked out". They may be frustrated in their current role where they might not have been given the right opportunities for more responsibility or higher profile projects. Asking the employee what their real issues are is the first step.
[+] [-] wpietri|8 years ago|reply
I think part of my job as a manager is to make sure that everybody is paid fairly all the time. For me that means benchmarking the salary structure to peer companies, a good career ladder, regular performance reviews, etc.
If one of my employees came to me and said, "A friend at company X said I could make $Y if I moved there", I'd definitely use that data to make sure our total package was fair. Hopefully we'd find we were already doing things well, but if not, I could easily see that research resulting in raises.
On the other hand, if somebody comes to me and says, "I already have an offer in hand from place X for $Y because I've been secretly job hunting for the last month," then I'd be very unlikely to counteroffer with more money. I'd certainly want to talk about why they were unhappy enough to start job hunting. Maybe there's a problem we weren't aware of or taking seriously enough. (And also I'd want to investigate how we hadn't discovered the problem until it was big enough they wanted to quit.) If we can solve that problem for them (and hopefully for other people, we should.
But if it's only a question of money when I think our pay is fair, then I wouldn't counter. One, I don't think money keeps anybody anywhere for long, so I'd expect the counter to be a bandaid. Two, either I have to change the whole salary structure to match or I've just made things less fair. That penalizes people who aren't as money-focused. Three, there are often reasons other places pay more on a cash basis. If somebody values cash more than other things I like to provide (e.g., working with good people, good work-life balance, more time available for learning, not having to clean up giant messes), then maybe they will be happier elsewhere.
And really, I'm fine with that. If somebody working for me would really be happier elsewhere, I'd rather help them find that next job. And if they won't be happier elsewhere but need to find that out for themselves, I'd rather have them feel welcome to come back.
[+] [-] analog31|8 years ago|reply
On the flip side, I was hired during a hiring freeze.
[+] [-] w_t_payne|8 years ago|reply
First of all, it is simply not a game that I am willing to play.
Secondly, the other team members will know about it (eventually) and will (eventually) try to do the same thing.
Overall, it would be detrimental to team cohesion and would undermine the culture that I want to build:- One that is focused entirely on solving the problem in front of us.
If a member of my team needed a pay rise (i.e. if they were expecting a child) then I would work energetically to represent them within the organisation to make sure that they get what they need -- but for their part I would expect them to interact with me honestly and not play silly games.
[+] [-] muzani|8 years ago|reply
Talking someone into staying might just get them to say yes, to be nice, then just change their mind and not show up some day.
[+] [-] buro9|8 years ago|reply
If the reason is something that money could solve, then I always encourage the company to offer more.
An example of this might be "I wasn't looking, still don't feel like I am. But company X asked me to look at a role, and I felt I shouldn't just ignore and it turns out they're offering $ and whilst I don't really want that role I would be a fool to decline it out of hand as that difference helps achieve <insert life goal>.".
In that case... if the company can do it, do it.
But if it's more "I went looking for something else and I hate this job, and this other stuff winds me up, but if you gave me all this extra money I'd suffer it a while longer"... then the company should wish you well and if they understand fully how toxic you now are to the team would let you leave that same day.
It depends. It always depends.
[+] [-] nilkn|8 years ago|reply
It is important to note that I was doing really important work at the company. I was probably not considered a "normal" employee.
[+] [-] le-mark|8 years ago|reply
The second situation is they're hemorrhaging staff, and will counter everyone, or proactively give raises to stem the tide.
I once took a counter offer that was nearly 50% of my salary. That was too much money to turn down.
[+] [-] danellis|8 years ago|reply
That's probably how it happened to me. I gave my notice, and people looked worried and had hushed conversations. A couple of hours later, managers from other teams were offering me better roles, but I turned them down, because the reason I was leaving was that I didn't like the way the company had treated me up to that point.
The problem with companies that act like that is that if they believed I deserved a better position, the time to act was when I had made it known I was unhappy, not when I'd already made the decision to leave. I'd already applied for internal promotion a couple of months before, and they could have acted then instead of just never getting back to me.
[+] [-] maxxxxx|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iammiles|8 years ago|reply
I liked the people I worked with, I liked the work culture, and even liked what the company was building, but at the end of the day it was worth it for me to switch to working on "non-sexy" legacy tech at a large corporation and all the BS that comes with that for financial gain, stability, and benefits.
[+] [-] closeparen|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galeforcewinds|8 years ago|reply
In many cases, if the business is advancing toward a downsizing, they might choose not to make a counteroffer and instead use the departure to fill a planned staffing reduction. This can pose serious issues for the manager when a business chooses such a course when their manpower was not originally slated for downsizing.
I've seen lower appetite for counteroffers in the "middle range" of maturity. When a team has begun to reject cowboy culture and tribal knowledge, embracing high levels of testing, documentation and automation there may be reduced interest in keeping someone for skill and knowledge. I've seen this behavior diminish when organizations reach a higher maturity level and are making a more sizable investment in long-term growth of their employees through things like training.
When serving as a manager, there are many cases where one might step in to ask the business not to make a counteroffer, such as: if the employee is relocating due to their spouse, if the employee determines remote work is not a good fit for themselves, or if the employee is seen to be making positive career steps forward which could not be matched in their current work environment. Many managers are big enough people not to try to hold their employees back.
There are of course many places I've not worked, and many possible cases I've not seen, but the above is my experience.
[+] [-] tptacek|8 years ago|reply
There was, a dozen or so years ago, a notion that you should never accept a counteroffer for exactly this reason. Your employer would be buying optionality on retaining you. What they want isn't you, but the right to decide when to replace you and a longer grace period to do that in.
This definitely does happen; it happened explicitly to me in a previous job (I was told a few years after I left, a year or so after accepting a counter and then being marginalized).
[+] [-] aey|8 years ago|reply
But I would strongly discourage you from taking it. Basically, the reason you are not at that salary/position yet, is because you are not recognized at that level by management. getting a bump via a counter offer will mean that you will be last in line for raises/bonus/promotions since you will be viewed as getting paid above your grade. This was what I observed as a manager at a big company during calibrations.
If you want a bump, ask your manager - where do you need the most help, what can i do to have a larger impact this cycle etc... - and do those things. If that is not enough, run :)
[+] [-] badosu|8 years ago|reply
I wouldn't give a counter-offer to an employee if I know that I can't really offer a better salary or work environment, and it would be even undesirable for me to have him accept it as he would probably always have the thought of leaving haunting him afterwards.
Sometimes not receiving a counter offer is the opposite of being terrible. Yours is a terrible advice.
[+] [-] TomV1971|8 years ago|reply
Two times, I accepted the counteroffer and stayed (for a while.) It didn’t have any adverse impact. I’m still at the company of the second counteroffer.
My experience is that big companies are typically quite rational about the whole thing. No hard feelings or anything, just business.
[+] [-] kelukelugames|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] everdev|8 years ago|reply
If you go to management and say "I've been struggling with X, Y and Z can you help me?" then you're signaling that you trust the company to help you, wether that's workload, salary, etc.
Management that counter offer after giving notice is 9/10 trying to keep you around long enough to find a better replacement knowing that you'll leave again in the near future, or they'll boot you when the replacement is up to speed.
[+] [-] noitsnot|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kpxxx3|8 years ago|reply
No not usually. I don’t get why a group (techies) that fancies themselves so rational can’t understand simple economics. Giving notice means I have leverage with a better offer no more less. The reason for that may be hard for the current employer to fix or not. Often it is not hard for them to fix, especially in larger organizations. And often coming with a better offer in hand is the only way to signal that. We can wank about ideal managers and all that but that is not how the world works.
[+] [-] ufmace|8 years ago|reply
I haven't personally gotten any yet after 3 resignations in my professional career, but that may be because in all of them, I was leaving because I was already very sure, based on factors other than the salary, that I no longer wanted to work there.
Well, the first one, I might have been able to get a counter-offer or other change in working conditions if I had been fishing for it, but I had long been coming to the conclusion that I just didn't see myself there long-term.
There is a lot of discussion out there about getting and giving counter offers and whether or not you should accept one. One thing I would say to the companies/managers that I haven't seen much - if you have the budget and desire to keep the employee to make a counter-offer, why didn't you just give them that raise in the first place? Seems easier than letting them run around interviewing at other places and negotiating offers with other companies, just to save 10% or whatever of their salary for a year or two.
[+] [-] brogrammernot|8 years ago|reply
However, if you want to stay and it’s just about money or title I would suggest talking to your director of recruiting or engineering manager. In my experience, chatting with them and being honest saying like “I love the company, but I’ve gotten some verbal offers/interest from company X, Y, X and the package they’re offering + the challenges they want me to solve are very intriguing. I’m loyal, so I haven’t taken any interviews as I really want to solve challenges here but this looks like a great opportunity. What can we do to make my current role as competitive that these ones?”
You have to be willing to leave though, as they might just say nope and that’s the end of it.
I used that same tactic, along with a proposal of what I wanted to do/be paid, and got a hefty increase.
It costs a lot to find developers, then to hire good ones. It can be $5-20k + the domain knowledge you have so it’s not cheap to replace a good developer.
[+] [-] expertentipp|8 years ago|reply
My experience is different. Avalanche the expensive and experienced devs with more and more work until they signalize that the team requires upsizing, make them resign. Fish for students, contractors. Hire contractors exclusively through a chain of intermediaries, so their salary and employee rights will be minuscule and they will have no leverage to say "no" to the most ridiculous bullshit.
Please tell me there exist companies which appreciate their specialists, which offer a significant payrise to make them stay. I have yet to encounter and work for one.
[+] [-] lj3|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lazyant|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CyanLite3|8 years ago|reply
1) Company knows they are going to eliminate a team within XX months. I'd take a huge counter (3x salary) to stay on to help shutdown a project or sell the company. 2-3x salary in these cases are fairly normal when a company gets sold and they just need help transitioning to the new parent company.
2) Company offers a severance package along with it. E.g., we'll give you a salary bump and a 12-month severance if we let you go without cause, within one year.
However, I've been on both sides, and I've offered a counteroffer to anyone who is leaving and I wanted to keep. Any company who doesn't do that probably doesn't have good developers who are constantly getting recruited on LinkedIn.
[+] [-] jwatte|8 years ago|reply
An employee who gives me solid market data, and is a good performer who likes the current position, does me a favor if they let me know I missed the memo on current market.
In most companies, it's 2-4% pretty year into infinity, and if the overall market grows faster than that, independent research may be warranted.
Meanwhile, of someone gives notice, rather than starts a conversation, I'd be much more wary. If we don't have a good, open relationship already, a quick raise won't fix that.
[+] [-] dawnerd|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] everdev|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hellofunk|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imaginenore|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sidcool|8 years ago|reply
I also believe that developer availability is going to soon outspeed demand. Revel while we get the importance.
[+] [-] jaimex2|8 years ago|reply
I don't think you should ever take counter offers if you previously asked for a raise and got no where.
[+] [-] edoceo|8 years ago|reply
I think if you don't get the counter, the reason is clear.
[+] [-] tomkinson|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Avernar|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kpxxx3|8 years ago|reply
There’s no bluff being called. This is simply the normal way for transaction participants to act rationally and in their best interests.
[+] [-] pjdemers|8 years ago|reply