Ask HN: What should we eat?

[eavc]

The USDA recommendations are almost universally considered wrong, perhaps even exactly backwards.

You have people like Michael Pollan saying we should eat traditional foods, mostly plants, and not too much.

Gary Taubes says we should eat meat, lots of it. Red meat.

The prevailing wisdom from nutritional science is--well, I have no idea what it is. I guess it's to eat foods high in polyunsaturated fats, avoid red meat, and avoid refined starches and sugars, but I'm not sure.

I hate that I get anxious when trying to decide something so simple as a shopping list for groceries.

Based on my experience in fields where I have a measure of expertise, the difference between a persuasive bunch of garbage and the truth can be incredibly hard to discern until someone contextualizes it all for you.

Does anyone have any suggestions for books or articles that cut through these various arguments in an authoritative way, explain shortcomings and virtues, and makes a straightforward recommendation based on a full appreciation of the all the arguments involved?

[snprbob86]

"I get anxious"

In my highly unscientific opinion: That's worse for you than anything you could ever eat.

Stop eating when you are full. Avoid excessive junk food. Try to eat fruit and vegetables more than occasionally. Reserve the cheeseburgers and onion rings for the celebration of Friday. Hold that celebration with friends and family more often than just Friday. Drink some wine or a beer. Laugh about it. Don't dwell on anything.

Even if you don't live longer, you'll live better.

[eavc]

I get your point, and I appreciate it. I could do worse than what you advise.

But I'd prefer to dismiss my anxiety through solid information rather than abandoning the concern and adopting what seems to be a "sensible" approach to diet founded on a cultural melange of how we ought to eat and drink.

If I can do something to reduce the chance that I get cancer--or that my wife gets cancer--then that's worth fretting.

[pradocchia]

This is tangential, but does anyone know of a field of study that specifically investigates traditional dietary frameworks in different parts of the world? Not what people actually eat per se, but what local tradition advises? The comparative philosophy of food, the anthropology of normative diets?

In China, for example, some foods are considered "heating", while others "cooling". Based on the time of year and your own condition, you may be advised to eat this set of foods, and avoid that.

If one could compile a set of such recommendations, cross reference them, and control for variations in climate, soil and whatnot, perhaps some interesting patterns might emerge.

[zbanks]

Did someone call for a nutritional anthropologist?

www.nutritionalanthro.org/

[c1sc0]

My wife is Chinese & one thing I noticed is that I have never felt better than when I stayed for extended periods in China. They take that hot/cold stuff seriously & based on anecdotal evidence I think I'm living a healthier lifestyle & eating better when I'm in China.

Also, Chinese traditional medicine healed an ailment for me that stumped the best (european) specialists, even though I had absolutely no faith in that nasty chinese medecine.

One of the things that may make a difference is that more traditional cultures take food more seriously. We tend to think about food as either a trendy thing to do, like eating out, or just 'filling up on calories', like junk food. A healthy middle ground where people actually take the time to cook & enjoy fresh food seems to be lost.

[kranner]

In China, for example, some foods are considered "heating", while others "cooling".

That's very interesting. That concept also exists in Indian, Pakistani and (I believe) Persian culture.

[huhtenberg]

> some foods are considered "heating"

Tangential anecdote - pregnant women apparently should not eat lamb, because it is "heating food" and will cause the growth of myomas (uterus tumors). No scientific confirmation what-so-ever. Can't eat it just because it's "heating" and causes "things to grow". Try countering this when talking to a pregnant wife choke-full of interesting mind-altering hormones :)

[sliverstorm]

> In China, for example, some foods are considered "heating", while others "cooling". Based on the time of year and your own condition, you may be advised to eat this set of foods, and avoid that.

gah... I dated a chinese girl, and she would discuss that with me when she got sick. It feels like folk medicine, the decision of what makes something 'hot' or 'cold' and so on seemed so arbitrary.

[shib71]

My tendencies, which seem to work well:

- Foods with less processing - more fresh stuff, less stuff that needs preservatives

- High ratio of vegatables/fruit to meat

- Less high-carb stuff, and always the low-gi versions (e.g. wholemeal/rye bread, brown rice)

- Eat what you enjoy. Find a balance between healthy and tasty you can live with.

- Indulging in stuff not on this list is serious business - it has to be really good, and every mouthful should be savored. Remove the concept of a "casual snack" from your life.

[modeless]

Fine, but personal diet anecdotes aren't what eavc is asking for. What trustworthy sources are these decisions based on?

[seldo]

The last is probably the most important. A snack should a treat; not a thing you do every day at 4pm.

[jscore]

Enjoying food is a tricky thing.

People love the taste of sweet and companies have engineered such foods so people eat it, but it doesn't mean it's good for you.

[eavc]

I'm surprised and disappointed at how many of the recommendations here are pure anecdote, intuition, or folk wisdom.

If I wanted to eat based on common sense or a fad diet, I'd do so. I was hoping to be pointed to something more scientific. Walter Willet's book is probably a good recommendation, but Pollan (as well as Taubes) have so impugned the track record of nutritional epidemiology that I think a resource that directly responds to those attacks is necessary.

I suppose I can continue the search on my own, but it's kind of amazing that with 74 comments in this thread, even a community as science-minded and educated as this one is relatively in the dark about this stuff.

[zoomzoom]

I'm surprised that you are so naive about what being "science-minded" on this issue means. There is so much variation in human physiology and digestive tract composition that a universal "healthy" diet is probably even more backwards of a notion than the USDA recommendations. What will be best for you to eat needs to be determined by your experiments with various different diets and will depend on how much you exercise and many other factors. Until we understand more about the bacteria that live in our body and how we interact with them, "science" is not going to be any better than folk wisdom. There is nothing wrong with eating the foods that have proven to work over 100,000+ years of human society.

I see several themes in the advice on this thread - don't eat too much, eat whole foods, and drink water. I have to say that this is probably the most scientific advice you will find.

[eavc]

Why is this getting downvoted?

Read my original post, read the responses. It's not that I'm not appreciative that people are trying. I'm genuinely surprised that answers of the sort I was looking for seem to be lacking.

[vitobcn]

This is the one I am following, and it's quite the opposite to the USDA recommendations: * The Paleo Diet ( http://amzn.com/0471267554 )

I don't know if that's the type of book you were looking for, but the authors' arguments and conclusions are based on their own scientific research.

[wvl]

Yes. This intro (and the whole site) gives a good overview of what a Primal diet entails: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-to-the-prima...

[js2]

The best answer I can give you is to spend some time on http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ -- Stephan's own diet (which you can divine with a little reading) is based on his survey of food science. He provides references for everything. The closest thing you'll find to a "diet" is a list of real foods:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/real%20fo...

Good luck.

[eavc]

Cool. Thank you. Another good answer.

[mbutson]

I have been in your situation on many occasions. I have gone vegetarian, vegan, omnivore, whatever you want to call it I have been there. It is a questions that can never be finitely answered. Everyone is different and the human body adapts to what it is given. (An eskimo community in Wales eats 90% fat)

The most rewarding diet(I hate the term diet because it ensures only short-term gain) that I have found is the Paleo Diet. http://paleodiet.com/ (horrible website I know)

Pretty much you just eat what you would expect to find hundreds of years ago.

Dean Karnazes(One of the best Ultra-Marathoners) swares by this diet. Here is a PDF of his daily diet plan. http://cl.ly/26c8cffdcda16a8dd212

I pretty much follow that regular plan, I do also run marathons, but it is definitely worth following in a normal phyical environment.

I would also reccomend the green smoothie. 7:3 fruit:greens ratio.

Usual Ingredients:

Strawberries Banana Water (Ice if you want it thicker) Greens

As you continue to get more accustomed to greens you can up the ratio. I LOVE it.

Best of luck to you man. Don't let my opinion deter you from others. Although I would NEVER follow Gary Taubes. He is also the guy who questions exercise. That's just insane.

On that note. It is important to exercise. Start small, and do an activity that you know you would enjoy.

[Gormo]

Sorry for going offtopic, but: there are Eskimo communities in Wales? Or did you mean that they eat whales?

[adamtj]

Dean Karnazes is not the best ultrarunner in the world. He's just the best at personal marketing.

[Roridge]

In layman terms: The body requires ATP for power, it is the rawest energy base unit for your body and is produced from Carbohydrate.

Your body is a machine built for changing fat into carbohydrate and then into ATP.

If you give your body too much carbohydrate it takes what it needs and converts the rest into fat. The fat you eat is already fat, so it just stores that too because it has already taken the raw carbohydrate it needs.

If you reduce your carbohydrate intake and eat more protein and fat (read "red meat" but also chicken, pork, non root vegetables et cetera) then your body will stop being lazy and start doing what it did for thousands of years before we invented preservatives and microwaves and cocacola and take that fat and make it into carbohydrate.

If you give your body less carbohydrate then you are doing it a massive favour.

That said, everyone is as genetically different as they are similar, so what works for some people wont work for others. For instance, Doctors are currently researching a hormone that comes from your bowls that tells you that you need carbohydrates, like all hormones they can over produce and make you crave them even if you aren't hungry, and they are working on a blocker which will help the super obese and probably reduce the need for any gastric band surgery.

[yason]

The difficult thing is that it depends completely on the person.

Some might thrive on meat and vegetables while bread and wheat makes them lose energy. Some really need the grain and the crops and meat makes them feel ill. Some need something in between and some people balance themselves on a totally different axis. Moreover, anything you crave for is probably bad for you at that time.

Eating vegetables seems pretty universal. I've never heard of a person who couldn't eat vegetables, sans extreme cases of sensitivy or allergies with regard to specific produce. So, start with vegetables and add what you feel like.

Personally, I buy fresh ingredients and cook most of my own food. Organic, if available. Very little bread and if so, it's 100% rye: this one is easy in Finland. No processed foods unless I'm enjoying the occasion of eating out and can't really control where the stuff originally comes from.

[larrywright]

As a number of other people have pointed out, the prevailing opinion on what is good and what is bad changes regularly. I'm inclined to go with Michael Pollan's advice of "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." as a good place to start. Skip most processed foods (ie, anything in packaging). Also pass on refined sugars (HFCS, etc). Drink lots of water instead of soda. Eat fresh fruit, vegetables, lean meats, eggs, etc. If you live in an area with a farmer's market, take advantage of it. Learning to prepare food for yourself is very rewarding.

[eavc]

Yeah, that's sort of how I've been leaning as well, but Taubes's book tosses a wrench in Pollan's indictment of animal proteins for me.

It would be nice to see direct treatment of each of these approaches by someone with expertise.

[leif]

http://whatthefuckshouldimakefordinner.com/

[samstokes]

I guess this is getting downvoted for being frivolous, but I think it's actually relevant (as well as pretty funny). Cooking for yourself is a lot healthier than always eating restaurant food, ready meals or takeaway. Of course you have to cook balanced, healthy dishes; the linked site seems to link mostly to such dishes.

[lionhearted]

Start by trying to identify some foods that are clearly good for you and increase how much you eat them. EX, oatmeal - fantastic food, almost universally agreed to be healthy, and has no real potential downsides. Then find foods that are clearly bad for you and decrease how much you eat them. EX, Coca-Cola - pretty much no micronutritional value, all you're getting is sugars and bad stuff.

That's the way forwards. There's some disagreement on certain places, but definitely increase clearly good foods while reducing clearly bad foods, and that'll be a good start.

[thesnark]

I would just like to point out that oatmeal has a glycemic index of about 50 (out of 100). That's for plain oatmeal with nothing added, not the instant stuff or the sugar laden version most people end up with.

[koanarc]

(I.A.NOT.A.Dietician/Nutritionalist, so more lay/anecdotal/armchair discussion follows)

I've had the same problems in trying to sort out truth and nonsense, so I just try to maintain an elementary understanding of the basic components of our diets and experiment. List the fundamentals of human nutrition and spend a day on wikipedia taking notes on what we do know. My rules:

1. Know my calorie requirements. How many to maintain current weight, to lose weight, to gain weight?

2. Pay attention to calorie ratios - Protein/Carbs/Fats. Am I working out this week? Anaerobic or aerobic? Do I have extra energy stores right now? What am I burning and what am I storing?

3. Protein quality & diversity of protein sources. Highly bio-available proteins? Simple or complex carbs, high or low GI? Saturated, mono-, or poly-unsaturated fats? No trans fat.

4. Vitamins and minerals. Where are the major gaps in my diet?

5. As little processed food as possible.

There's plenty of information out there on these things. Do your own research. Every week learn exactly what is in one particular food. See what works for you, then eat what you're knowledgeable about and what makes you feel right.

[ryanpetrich]

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

[jscore]

Easy.

Eat food that our bodies (as hunters and gatherers) are designed to consume.

- no processed/fast/junk food

- no soft drinks, etc

- food that has low-gi carbs (quinoa, buckwheat, whole grains) to prevent insulin spikes, etc. Insulin spike is fine after a heavy workout.

- food heavy in fiber (such as whole grain food above)

- my typical meal: side of veggies, quinoa and wild salmon

Do a month where you only drink water. I typically don't drink anything except water or tea (green, etc).

I used to weight lift, so I researched heavily what kind of food I should be consuming.

Sugar is pretty much your enemy due its insulin spikes and glycogen storage. High fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is evil.

[sliverstorm]

This idea of 'designed to consume' is ridiculous. We are omnivores, anything that doesn't kill us on the spot is fair game.

Healthy is a different issue, but as omnivores we are 'designed' to eat anything we can.

[tomhoward]

I've generally adhered to a "paleolithic diet" this year and have seen a steady improvement in my health. Meat, eggs, fish, vegetables.

More recently I've become wary of gluten, particularly its harmful effects on the gut and on the Thyroid.

I found this article very enlightening: http://thehealthyskeptic.org/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

I'm now avoiding gluten altogether and plan to stay this way for several months. So far the results are positive.

[anguslong]

Mark Bittman, food writer at NYT strikes a balance between food hyperbole and science that appeals to me. (e.g. full appreciation of health, weight, environment, pleasure trade-offs)

His personal goal of "vegan until 6" is an example. Veggies & fruit during the day, then a balanced dinner with protein.

A bit more detail and links to his sources (books): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/books/article967801.ece

[plesn]

My personal first "contextualisation" about the food industry was a book called "A Diet for a Small Planet" (the reedition, not the original one). I liked it because it was the first time I saw some data and graphs about how and why (hint: profit) our food production is plain wrong.

Now, I try to be as cheap and sane as I can, mostly by cooking more stuff myself and eating more vegetables (non-industrial whenever possible).

[grandalf]

My take:

Nutrition is probably only about 20% of the picture. You should be exercising, meditating, stretching, sleeping well, etc.

Humans can survive on all sorts of different foods. I think the optimal diet contains lots of fresh whole fruit and veggies, kale, and a bit of meat and fish.

Listen to your body. Does a food make you feel sluggish? Drugged? Energized? Strong?