Ask HN: What problem does Foursquare/Gowalla/Places solve?

[mcxx]

One of the most repeated advice for startups is build something people want, something that solves a problem. What problem do these services solve? They are just games/tools for sharing where I am right now. It's fun, but I can live without it. I get that there's value for business owners, but that's just a byproduct, at least I percieve it that way. For a regular user who is just checking-in, there's no real value.

So, what problem do they solve?

[dsplittgerber]

I think there is this huge gap between which startups are covered all the time in the tech-savy press and which ones actually (will) matter for most 'regular' people medium-to-long term. Being a 'media-darling' and getting lots of buzz IMHO doesn't correlate with serious adoption beyond SF bay and Boston/NYC. Generally speaking, I think solving regular peoples' problems could be more worthwhile than pandering to early-adopters. I don't think they necessarily have the same problems.

[jbooth]

True, but FourSquare is really entertaining to the people who use it. Might not be a lasting trend but I've had several people gush about how fun it is. And there's a huge advertising opportunity, granted, again, that they can remain the popular platform for local-social-whatever.

I mean, what problem does FarmVille solve?

[nathanwdavis]

It's totally true: Foursquare, Gowalla, etc. appeal most directly to a young tech-savvy market. Basically, SF.

Companies like AngiesList and Groupon serve a broader market and are not based in SF area. So, they get less attention. But, these are bringing in far more revenue and will likely last longer.

[alabut]

It's the same answer that Ev Williams gave about an early critical review of Twitter: "how useful is ice cream?"

Just because there's people that use Groupon-like utilitarian services doesn't mean that they won't have fun with other stuff too.

[marknutter]

Yet Facebook sees great potential in this space and just launched a competing service which I predict will become a HUGE hit, especially among college aged kids.

[charliepark]

I think there's a serious bifurcation between "tech-savvy, smartphone-using, social (and generally single) twenty- and thirty-somethings with disposable income and time, living in urban centers" and ... everyone else. If you aren't in that first group (I'm not), location-aware apps and social services aren't going to have a lot of utility. But if you live in Brooklyn, work in Manhattan, go out to bars or restaurants with friends two or three times per week, a service like Foursquare could be really useful: "I'm heading to the subway station ... which stop has a higher concentration of my friends at bars? Do I get off in the Village or Chelsea? Oh? Everyone's at Shake Shack? Off I go!" (and so on)

[kscaldef]

I'm in that group, and I don't find these services particularly compelling either. Maybe you need to add "extroverted" to your list; I'm not sure. I tend to have a smallish number of people I'm really interested in hanging out with, and we just coordinate directly.

I did spend some time using an earlier location-based social network and the problem it had was this: you don't know what check-ins are general invitations to come and join them, and which are purely habit (or in the case of 4sq, competitive). I, personally, was never confident of the etiquette, so generally avoided just dropping in at places where someone checked in.

[tomwans]

does anyone want to go to shake shack right now? I do.

[telemachos]

First, the two parts of your advice aren't identical. That is, "something people want" doesn't always mean "something that solves a problem."

Second, you're being overly demanding, I think, even about "solves a problem." We could do a whole song and dance about the human need for fun, but that would be beside the point. When you say "It's fun, but I can live without it," you changed the terms of the whole debate. We started with "solves a problem," but tons of things solve problems and yet you can live without them.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that there is a real category "invented needs" (or "invented desires", if you prefer), and that lots of webapps fall into that category. The existence of the product creates the need (desire) after the fact.

[mcxx]

Sure I can live without most things that solve a problem, but that's not the point. I want to understand if there's some added value for the users, why would they start (and continue) using it in the first place. Jerome_etienne gave a good answer, but you also made a good point with the "invented needs". On the other hand, I'm not sure that can last for more than a couple of years on its own. Users flock to the next hot thing all the time.

[marknutter]

This thread reminds me of the cacophony of similar questions people had about Twitter when it was the center of attention. I think the problems that these location apps solve are quite obvious, just like I thought that Twitter very obviously solved problems too.

The catch is, however, that you need to have a significant amount of your friends and acquaintances using either service for them to become useful. Imagine if you were in college, and were meeting a bunch of new people every week, and you could see at any moment where your new friends are hanging out, or partying, or studying. You could see where the most popular hangouts are. You could check and see if anyone you know is at the same location you are currently at.

Once the network effect kicks in, these apps become awesome. And yes, just as people pigeonholed Twitter as being a narcissistic service, these apps allow people to express themselves as well, only through their choice of venue, not their choice of words.

If you want practical solutions, imagine a street team for a band or product going around town hitting all the hip locations spreading the word about a new album or product. They could keep tabs on each other as they fan out over the city and make sure they don't double up on locations.

The possibilities are endless, really. You just need to use your imagination and stop being so skeptical.

[scrrr]

I started studying marketing in order to start my own company some time ago and from the very beginning I remember one maxim that stuck with me: "If you cant be the best in a category, invent a new category."

I think that makes sense and it's exactly what Foursquare and Gowalla do. Besides, if people only had invented what other people said their need was in history, perhaps we wouldn't have many things we take for granted today.

Also: Entertainment is a huge deal. Look at the gaming industry.

[NickPollard]

To paraphase Henry Ford, 'If I'd have asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.'

[jerome_etienne]

knowing where people are physically is a usefull info.

this is no game. it is big stuff, close to the localisation trend. very linked to mobile world obviously. google/twitter/facebook are all going in the localisation in order to get data closer to the user. They are more likely to be relevant to them.

possible usage scenarios

"where are my friends"

"i like this personn, oh this personn is going there, oh i dunno this place, maybe i will like this place"

"oh you went to this bar ? i like it too. ask bob the barman to give you one drink on the house, i know him"

obviously once the arch is setup, it is possible to push local store ads on this. It think local-store ads on the internet will be huge, once the arch is setup, so not soon, but in a few years.

The deployment of local ads is slow, because you need to get local stores to actually advertize... and they are not used to it. This is my understanding of it at least. aka "the market is not yet ready".

[rgoddard]

Basically it add physicality to the virtual world. Part of the trend of the internet is to help connect people who are not physically present or close. So people can form groups with other people based on interest rather then on location. But there is still lots of value in connecting with people on a more physical level, and these types of services tap into that value.

[GBKS]

How about these scenarios?

"721 people are gathering five blocks down? One of them posted a picture. Oh, looks like there is a free concert happening in the park? Let me check that out."

"355 people at grocery store? Maybe I'll wait until it slows down and go later."

"467 people on Interstate X? Might be an accident."

Even with anonymous tracking, this could be really interesting.

[evilduck]

Foursquare: entertainment for users, spam for non-users. As a non-user, they provide an easy means to identify and remove people from my social networks who are willing to spam me.

Seriously, apps that send messages to non-users by default are annoying. If I cared about where you've been, I can join Foursquare on my own, I shouldn't be required to block every new app that comes along, it should be opt-in.

[wgj]

What path are they using to spam you? I've never seen foursquare spam.

[jimbokun]

I don't use any of these products (I don't think I'm the target demographic) but it seems that they can be applied to jwz's classic use case:

"Your "use case" should be, there's a 22 year old college student living in the dorms. How will this software get him laid?"

http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html

Where human beings are concerned, there are few problems more fundamental than that.

[NEPatriot]

I think we often only view the world in terms of problems. But there are different types of problems which can be further broken down. I think the quote below puts it best.

"There are three kinds of pain. You can be vitamins to someone, you can be aspirin to someone, or you can be morphine to someone"

-Genevieve Thiers

[hcarmichel]

I agree these companies are more for entertainment and socializing than "solving a problem". You can easily argue the twitter doesn't solve a specific problem, as with most geolocation services it is merely a tool for sharing information. Having said that I think there is a real problem that can be solved using geoloction technology and that problem is "where the heck are you?". My roomate and I moved to a new city recently and had an terrible time coordinating meetups with people. To solve our problem we created a simple web app. We posted it on HN a couple days ago http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1607982

[Russelldb]

From http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html

> So I said, narrow the focus. Your "use case" should be, there's a 22 year old college student living in the dorms. How will this software get him laid?

[Tyrannosaurs]

Is it "I can't tell the world enough about me through Twitter, Facebook, Flickr and Tumblr and I for some utterly incomprehensible reason I honestly believe the world NEEDS TO KNOW MORE about what I'm doing"?

[AmberShah]

Games are a totally valid business and solve the problem of boredom. It seems like you're dismissing games as a category of business and that's silly. Just look at the giant video game industry.

I don't think that's all a location-based service provides though. It always seemed silly that everyone has mobile phones, and yet I have no way of knowing where any of my friends are without polling each one individually. So far they haven't helped since most people I know and care about are not on them yet.

[sunkencity]

They solve the problem of saying something when you have nothing to say, and making it more socially acceptable (and easier) to brag about where you are going and what you are doing.

[terra_t]

Attracting investment from VC's, hoping for a big sell-out before the thing falls flat on its face.

[thibaut_barrere]

They don't have to solve a problem; they satisfy needs, such as the need to share, to belong to a community, joy/play etc.

Non-violent communication gathers these - it's pretty useful for a brainstorming, for instance:

- http://www.cnvc.org/en/Training/needs-inventory

Also useful:

- http://www.cnvc.org/en/Training/feelings-inventory

[camiller]

It solves the problem of knowing if your target is at home before you go to rob it.

Seriously, I can't ever see myself using this. I don't want people to know where I am because then they know where I'm not.

I'm also appalled by the (luckily few) LinkedIn connections that let tripit tell me when they will be out of town. If I were a bad guy that would start my target list.

...end of rant

[cullenking]

Good thing most bad-guys aren't super tech savvy...Most people going out to rob someone aren't necessarily using technology to assist in their exploits.

I live in as much of a hood as you can get in Portland, and the people I am worried about being robbed by are any neighbors that may see me packing up to leave for the weekend!

I won't be jumping on this location bandwagon myself, however, my guess is this will NOT fly without some access controls.

[mlflanagan]

They provide entertainment. They don't solve any problem, unless you consider the search for entertainment to be a problem.

[kristiandupont]

Exactly - just like every game company, film production company or musician.

[nadam]

I think the following two sentences:

'build something people want' 'build something that solves a problem'

became just empty trivialities by now. These were important relevations after the dot com boom: During the first dot com boom there were those overly optimistic overly financed companies which did not care about what people want. But by now I think this lesson is learned, everybody want to solve a problem and everybody cares about what people want. It is just very hard to know what people want. Or at least hard to know it better then the competition. That's why most startups fail. Honestly I would not think some years ago that these services like Foursquare will be such a big deal. I am coming from a very different social context, so I cannot really understand the needs of those kind of people who use these services. That's why I don't even try to create these kind of startups.