How did non US citizen founders funded by YC get allowed to work in the US?

[faikr]

Hi, first time posting here.

I've been thinking about applying to YC but the thing is that I am not a US citizen. I know I can travel to the US to do busines (attending meetings and such) done so fo my current employer. But how about starting a company and writing code?

I've read somewhere that YC has funded startups with non US citizen founders so it should be possible somehow. If there are any YC funded startups founded by non US citizens reading this (or anyone else that knows anything about this), how did you do it?

Note that I do not have a green card or visa or anything like that.

Cheers

[alain94040]

I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter.

1. 90% of the answers in this thread are bad advice. Some of it really bad. A lot of it just misleading, bogus or exaggerated (on HN, it's bad form to criticize others, but when it comes to life-altering advice such as here, I can't let it stand).

2. It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors.

3. The best lawyer site I have ever seen is http://usvisanews.com. Read this weekly for 6 months, then you'll start having an idea of how it works

A few facts:

a. anybody can incorporate a US corporation. You don't even have to set foot in the US, by the way, to do so.

b. the main issue is living in the US while having some kind of activity for a company. It's usually defined as work, and that's when you must be very careful and have the right status.

[jayliew]

Yup, agreed with Alain that there's so much legally correct, but also legally wrong statements on this thread. This immigration question depends on like a million factors. To name a few,

* which country you are a citizen of makes a HUGE difference - every country has a different relationship with the US. Some citizens walk in and out freely and do almost anything they want, while others can't even get their foot in the door

* what stage/maturity of your startup is in. If you're already proving that you have profits, can hire US citizens, have raised $, you're going to look a lot better than having nothing but an idea (again, just a broad generalization)

* Immigration fraud is a HUGE no-no. If you get caught, they might not ever let you in again. Ever. Depending on severity

* A million other tactics. I'm not a lawyer. But I know this is a question that needs an answer that is more than just cookie-cutter advice (if you're serious about your intentions). Talk to a lawyer. Many lawyers.

Yes, it sucks and all this is very anti- to the idea that America is the land of opportunity :( Good luck and wish you guys all the best. Do share what worked and what didn't with your fellow immigrant entrepreneurs

[dotBen]

I just want to second what alain is saying here. I'm a foreign national working in US on a visa and I've spent a ton of time and money on immigration law.

There is some outright CRAP advice in this thread that I know for a fact is BS. Even if you are doing something that is unlikely to get caught at the time, if you ever apply for a green card they will investigate the entire history of your activity in the US and this is when problems can occur. (problems will result in almost certain deportation and being barred from entering US again)

I have also heard of a VC/investor passing information to the DHS about a startup founder who pitched him who was working illegally - think about that for a moment. (I've got nothing against him, the investor was totally in his right to do so - plus no one is going to fund a company that has founders working outside the law anyway).

PLEASE get legal advice, and from someone who you know has already helped startup founders. Many lawyers don't understand the landscape we are in.

[iamjustlooking]

I sincerely hope that he doesn't follow any advice in this thread except for getting a lawyer because if he willy nilly applies for stupid things he is not likely to succeed in getting (Just apply for a GC? Come on what dream world are some HN'ers living in?) it will severely complicate any future correct application.

[TotlolRon]

> I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. > It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors.

A similar number of visa types over similar number of years and I would go a step further and say that there is no formal solution to your problem. The US immigration system can't handle YC type rhythm and structures.

You'll have to assume you have two operations to run - your startup and your status. You'll have to get knowledgeable and creative in both. Also, as you will work under the assumption that your start-up may fail, you should also work under the assumption that your status will fail and you will have to go back to your home country. Succeeding in both operations is possible, but very hard. Me think the immigration operation is harder....

Good luck.

[amirmc]

I suspect that while the non-US teams are at YC, some of them are technically 'tourists' (i.e just on holiday). They don't need a visa to enter the country so it's a case of hear-no-evil, see-no-evil.

If they decide to stay in the US after YC, then they have to deal with the nightmare of immigration and get themselves proper work permits.

For those who need a tourist visa to even enter the US, I have no idea.

[wheels]

"Seeking investment" is a valid reason to enter the US from visa waiver countries. My (German) co-founder used that when entering for YC and had no problems. It's also a perfectly reasonable simplification of what happens at YC.

[richardhenry]

It's perfectly legal to enter the U.S. for business reasons, including meetings, conferences or even to raise funding. You're not allowed to become employed by a U.S. corporation, but you can certainly consult for them and do on-site work. I'm a Brit, and I've done all of the above several times under the VWP without border control even batting an eyelid.

[bluishgreen]

I am an Indian on H1B Visa, possibly the worst country to be from relative to the US Immigration System.

An immigration lawyer told me that I can register a company but I cannot work for it. But later when I find U.S investors who will own equity in my company I can ask them to sponsor the transfer of my H1B Visa to my own company.

This doesn't make me thrilled, but hey - it is something. Sitting on my hands is killing me, so I am moonlighting in the hopes that the lawyer is right, and that I can find investment using only my moonlighting efforts.

If anyone knows better please let me know.

[MediaSquirrel]

talk to a different lawyer. Try these dudes:

Leon Hazany 310-500-5052 [email protected]

Robert Goodman 914-935-0015 [email protected] http://www.rigoodmanlaw.com/

Leon is based in LA and was very helpful when i spoke w him about my co-founder. Robert is based in NYC and was particularly knowledgeable about tech and immigration.

also, fyi, ALWAYS TALK TO MULTIPLE LAWYERS, especially when one does not give you a satisfactory response. Immigration is complex and many are bleeding heart save-the-poor types who do not understand the biz/startup side of the equation at all.

Every lawyer will give you 30-60min of their time on the phone for free. Multiply that by the number of lawyers in the world and you can get A LOT of legal advice for free.

Good luck!

[angkec]

I've also talked to some immigration lawyers, and that seems to be the only route that can get you 6 years in the u.s. The other route maybe graduate from a u.s university and use your 29-month opt period (you do have to extended it) to work for you own u.s registered company. Since opt authorization is done by the school you graduate from, it should be much easier to do than issuing an h1b for yourself.

Just my 2 cents,

[fbnt]

I have a slightly different question: considering I have no interest in emigrating to the States, what if my hypothetical startup gets funded by YC or any other american early stage venture firm?

Would I be able to incorporate in US and pay taxes accordingly? Can I keep working from my home country? What are the real, tangible advantages of running your team in US, other then the favorable startup environment you can get in places such as the Valley/SF? Are investors much less inclined to funding foreign teams, does it makes it more troublesome?

Sorry for the loads of questions, but sometimes I fail at understanding why so many people think is a must to go to the states to get a startup off the ground.

And thanks to anyone who will take the time to answer.

[dotBen]

This probably becomes off-topic to this OP, but the whole point of YC is the resources and network you get accepted into. And you need to be here for that.

Also, if the idea is to obtain funding during/after the YC program you will find that VCs will rarely invest in distant companies.

If you don't want to be here for that, even for the duration of the program, (and really, with the aim of moving here) then YC is probably not for you - but perhaps there is a similar program locally to you?

(NB: I'm not connected with, nor work for, YC)

[bombs]

Adioso (YC W09), originally Australian, "re-incorporated" in the US.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1605659

[tomhoward]

This doesn't allow us to work in the US. We still don't have working visas, and we spend most of our time back in Australia, coming and going from the US on Visa Waiver for meetings etc.

[moondowner]

I was planning to work for a company in the USA via Faculty (Java & Database stuff), for 4 months - during the summer, and as I was reading, the applicant gets a J-1 visa (or it was J-2, I can't recall now), but I got another offer so I didn't go.

My point is, J-1 & J-2 are visas for students, teachers, business trainees, certain specialists, and more... If YC wants you, maybe you're eligible for this kind of visa.

[DirtyAndy]

I've also been interested in how they get around this.

Technically on a business tourist visa (forgotten what it is called, but if you are from the right country you just tick a box on your way in) I think you are allowed to attend meetings and tradeshows. From an IT perspective I am pretty sure you are able to do analysis if the aim is then go back to your home country and do development. But I cannot see how a startup can go there and actively start a business (although I guess you could argue it is similar to sitting around a pool on holiday checking a blackberry - big argument, but there is a case there - it isn't like you are an employee of anyone there).

Entering the US is always a bit painful, but I think when you come from a country that they don't have a major overstayer problem with then you are probably OK.

I'd be interested in how people from countries that don't qualify for visa waiver get on.

[vgurgov]

its called b1/b2 and even if you are from country that qualify for waiver you should get it. it gives you 6m+6m instead of 3month and more.

[eru]

I hope you will get some good answers. Just a short note: Please do not include HTML-tags in your posts. Thanks!

[faikr]

Sorry for that. Don't know where those html-tags came from.

[marcamillion]

I lived in the US for 7 years, did both degrees there and worked in between.

Thoroughly familiar with the immigration system.

The short answer is, without making a 'large' investment (i.e. $500K min) + showing that you can provide at least 10 jobs in 2 years - you have a steep climb to be able to stay in the US.

That being said, anyone can register a company - from any country. You can have the company in the US, register a bank account, get a tax ID, pay taxes, etc....but unless you are doing a certain amount of business and creating at least 10 jobs, you can't actually live here.

People will say you can register a company on a student visa (F1), that's BS. Don't do it. You might not get caught immediately, but it violates the intent of the student visa - which is a 'non-immigrant student visa'. i.e. you have no intention of staying in the US. You are just there to work.

The same applies to H1-B, and other work visas. All of those visas are non-immigrant visas, which means you don't intend to migrate to the US permanently.

Some people have successfully started a company on F1, but if you ever get audited by the US Immigration service, there is a very high probability that you will get deported.

All of that being said, don't worry about it. You can travel to the US on a visitors visa, or a business visa, for a few months (for e.g. to participate in YC), and then go home - while still having your company operating in the US. Once you are big enough, if you sell to a large company, like Facebook or Google or something, they can do an internal transfer (I believe it is a J-visa).

Also, there are paths to a green card (family, marriage, or investment) that given your situation the best would probably be investment once your company grows enough for you to open an office in the US.

All of that being said, make sure to see an immigration attorney and get good advice. But more importantly, read the various requirements for yourself - from the links others have posted here.

Some attorneys might tell you they can get you a green card through an F1 or H1-B....make sure you know your stuff, and be suspicious.

I have many friends that have told me that they have spoken to attorneys that assure them they can start a company on an F1 visa. I have spent hundreds of dollars and visited at least 4 different attorneys (including a past immigration judge) and they all tell me the same thing. By doing that, you violate the intent of the law.

[ehsanul]

About starting a business on F1: you can do it if you're on OPT and got your EAD card. Being self-employed is noted as one way to keep your status as an F1 with OPT (as 90 days unemployment means you're out of status), besides getting a job or volunteering. I'm doing that now myself, after talking to my international student advisors and a couple lawyers.

Thing is, the business MUST be in a field related to what you studied on your F1 visa, which is severely limiting.

As for the green card, DO NOT apply for it during your F1, as that's a non-immigrant single-intent visa. Your purpose is to study and leave. However, the H1-B has a well-established route to a green card (after you work for 6 years or something), as it is a dual-intent visa. I'm not sure about particulars, but I know many go through this route successfully. No reason to be suspicious about this if a lawyer mentions it.

[mgh2]

What about the EB-5 visa? (The Entrepreneur's Visa)

The specifics of the visa are: 1. Each year 10,000 entrepreneurs allowed into the US. 2. The entrepreneur has to attract investment of 1 million. 3. In which after he attains this, he is granted with a 2 year period of 'probation'. 4. In these 2 years, he has to create at least 10 full time American jobs and make a revenue or attract an additional 1 million dollars. 5. If this is achieved, he will be granted a green card. If not, he has to go back.

So my questions are:

A. I know it seems impossible, but how many foreign entrepreneurs actually can achieve this? Are there numbers of how many get this type of visa each year?

B. When is the EB-6 visa coming out? (Same visa but only with 1/2 requirements)

[mgh2]

For more info go to: http://startupvisa.com/

[suthakamal]

If you enter the US on a B2 business visitor visa, after being in the country for 60 days you can petition in writing for an Adjustment of Status to change your visa to another type. You can remain in the US under the terms of the B2 until you get a reply to your petition, even if it is after the 90 day expiration of the B2.

Note that the above is true for canadians. Ymmv for other nationalities.

[kareemm]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the O-1 visa for "aliens of extraordinary ability":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-1_visa

AFAIK, a couple of non-US citizens have gotten them to work in the US on YC (the Auctomatic guys). I know DHH was on one to work for 37S.

[hippich]

non residents can open company in most if not all states. once entity is created - anyone can fund it. you just can't be hired by this company and be US resident in the same time. But you can be on US territory to sign contracts, or you can work for company while being out of US land.

but after going through work visa i can say it's doable, but really complex if you are not from "good" country, like canada, australia, etc. =)

[kgthegreat]

This site has some info http://startupvisa.com/about/

[ojbyrne]

"We hope to have one or both of these bills formally presented to Congress sometime later this year."

[switch]

apply for a hsmp visa in UK or canadian permanent residence.

Most of the advice in this thread - except for the first two - alain and tololRon - is very very dangerous - it'll get you barred from US forever if you try some of the stunts recommended.

[diehell]

Does YC consider funding an idea for a startup with non-US resident founders?

[lewstherin]

It says so on their faq page which is why I have applied :)

[impeachgod]

So thus we have a good reason to have more women founders - immigrant hacker-startup guys are usually male. Thus, they can just marry their US-citizen startup cofounders.

[dotBen]

Or we all push for marriage equality so that LGBT folks can marry too, with full federal recognition including immigration status for the other partner.

[vgurgov]

I am not YC founder, so i dont know how YC do that. But technically everyone can come to US, register a company and work for it. Its YOUR company, so no prob here.

Although you might need to come back to your country every 6 months or so.

Edit: Surprised to see so many comments and and downvotes from "experts" for that. Get business/tourist (b1/b2). You are not working you are considering investing in US- one of the simples rules to remember when crossing border- and there are many others.

[arnorhs]

Everyone can register a company? But you still need a special VISA to work. That's remarkable.

[georgecmu]

I think you'd see a lot more upvotes if you gave an explicit description of how "everyone can come to US, register a company and work for it", instead of making this empty (and to the best knowledge of most people that had to deal with the US immigration, incorrect) statement.

[duke_sam]

There is a visa (It's one of the E visas) for people bringing capital into the states but you it's not a trivial amount and you need to prove that you will employ a certain number of Americans.

[eru]

Really? It's sound like this would make it possible to work every job, by sub-contracting to your `company'.

[davidw]

Tourist visas are 3 months, and are for tourism, not for working for your company.

I do think that it's possible to register a company, but don't know how that works out for non-US people.

[davidw]

Sheez, what's with the "pile on" downvoting. If he's wrong, vote him down to 0 or -1 and leave it at that.

[vgurgov]

i know that this will get a ton of downvotes, but problem with getting entrepreneur visa in US is pretty much overvalued!

Get this:

Most skilled ppl can get this or other solution pretty easy and legal after doing some research in the field. So dont worry about getting a visa, better worry about building a great product!!

[yardie]

Okay, first things first. Apply for a greencard. I know it's a long process, it's expensive, and it's very invasive but do this first. People assume they don't qualify and don't even bother asking. But the US still has the highest immigration of all countries, only the UK is a distant 2nd. So obviously, people are getting in everyday.

Now, contact the US embassy in your country. Get all your paperwork together, set an appointment, pay the fees, and wait. Depending on the country you are coming from can be the difference between success and failure. Each country has quotas and some are filled immediately (Mexico, for example) and some go unmet (Switzerland, because no one ever leaves switzerland)

So do all the paperwork, fill in the envelope and mail it, and wait. That's all you really can do.

[jbarham]

This is lousy advice. It's not as if just anyone can "apply for a green card". You need to have a sponsor who is either a relative and US citizen, or you are already employed by a US company on a work visa and they are willing to sponsor your green card application. (I am in the second category.)

Even if you have an employer willing to sponsor your green card application, the preliminary paperwork can take over a year before you're officially in the green card pipeline. How long you have to wait depends on your country of origin. Canadians can expect to wait at least two years, Indians and Chinese five years or more. But the kicker is that if you lose your job or change companies while you're in the pipeline, the whole process restarts! (Unless you're in the final stage, but that's comparatively short compared to the whole process.) That is, if you can find a new job. If you can't, you have to leave the US.

The US is unique among western countries in not have a way for skilled immigrants to get into the country unless they first have a sponsor. The US work visa program effectively creates a class of indentured laborers as their continued residency in the US is entirely dependent on their employers.

[faikr]

So you mean that I can just apply for a generic green card. As far as I know you have to be eligible for some certain types of green cards. I have tryed with the lottery but no luck there.

I have browsed through the various ways to get a green card and as far as I can tell the only way I can get it is either through getting a job at some company in the US or winning the lottery.

[ojbyrne]

I guess when you're talking "highest immigration" you're talking in absolute terms. Both Canada and Australia have significantly higher _rates_ of immigration.

I'm starting the green card process, and fwiw, the lawyer tells me it takes a minimum of 16 months, with 2 years being typical.

[imajes]

This is patently wrong advice. Do not do this, as it will invalidate all visa-waiver travel for EVER.

You should only apply for a visa when you are reasonably sure you will get it (i.e. have an offer of employment, funds or family to sponsor you).

[DirtyAndy]

Actually depending on where you are from you can also apply for the Greencard Lottery. Free way to get a Greencard. http://www.dvlottery.state.gov/

[prototype56]

US still favors family based immigration system . So "highest" doest count in this context when compared to points ( skill) based system in other countries like UK.