Thank HN: 7 months ago, I asked for help. Now I've got 5 employees.

[needmoney]

7 months ago, I posted asking the community how I could most efficiently make 300-400 US dollars a month, my cost of living, online (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171520). You guys really poured out good ideas and several of you offered me work.

Patio11 was among those: he offered to pay me 400 USD a month, every month, to make a custom Wordpress theme for him. I took him up on it. His offer really helped. The ability to hammer out a Wordpress theme and cover my living costs in a short period of time meant that I could hire out someone else to do the tasks that were taking all of my time to pay for my food and rent. With the new-found free time, I was able to focus on marketing and sales and grow the service I had been doing myself into a larger business. By the time the 2nd Wordpress theme was due, I had run overdue on its deadline because my tiny business had been covered by some major media and I was swamped with just keeping it up and running. Thankfully Patrick was understanding when I turned in the late 2nd project and told him I simply had no more time to design for him due to my personal business's growth.

Fast-forward a few months. I now have 5 people working under me (3 full-time, 2 part-time) and my own office. Things are still hard, and I'm not rich, but I'm in a much better place than I was when I first posted. Thank you!

[jacquesm]

It's very nice to see asking for help on HN have a tangible effect in peoples lives. Another thing I really like about this particular story is that it is not 'charity' but a helping you to make you stronger so you can help yourself (and apparently others!).

Really neat. I wished there was more stuff like this on HN.

[cosgroveb]

This place is becoming just like Reddit...

In a great way! People helping people. And in a very Hacker News sort-of way, helping people get a business off the ground! He's the master of his own destiny now and that's awesome.

[kls]

I agree this is an awesome story. It is nice to have a small community of people who help each other out.

After some of the other tech focused user submitted news sites outgrew their roots, I wandered around for years not feeling compelled to join another community. HN is different, it is the reason I joined and this story highlights why.

[csomar]

My life has change (and also my little mind) thanks to Hacker News. I should say "I read enough, yet a lot", may be more than 500 pages (I already printed 200 or so).

Not only my financial situation changed, but also the way I view the world. Just 400 days before now, $25 is my monthly money pocket that I get from my parents and it should cover all my expenses (except clothes, food and obviously housing).

Now I have my own Internet subscription ($30 a month) and also I just purchased a VPS and a couple of SaaS service. I did bought my Nokia feature phone ($150) also myself and this little netbook I'm typing from ($400). That in 300 days or so, and by the end of this year, I'm planning on buying a Sony Z series, 23'' monitor and a smartphone.

I have 3 years browsing and reading the Internet, but it's only in the last year that I started making money out of it (not browsing! the internet). This wouldn't be done without Hacker News. I should also mention that my English was revamped considerably and ... okay, lot of things actually.

Thanks HN! You didn't give me money but you did teach me how to make it and also LIVE happy.

[illumin8]

Don't spend all your money on toys... The few hundred dollars you've spent already, had you invested it in your business, or even put it into savings, could be worth tens of thousands or even millions a few decades from now.

[eof]

Awesome. What is your business?

[needmoney]

Well, I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint you all and tell you I run a bakery. I know you guys were expecting a tech company.

I wasn't actually planning on revealing this, but you guys seem to really want to know and the community has been good to me. And maybe you can give me more advice.

I actually have a degree in CS and I love to code, but I tried for a while and never managed to make money on my own with my tech skills before Patrick. I figured (correctly, I think) that my problem was not with my hacking abilities but with my business skills - I had absolutely no good sense of what people would give me money for.

In my mind, I saw myself stumbling around on a seemingly infinite plane while I was trying to follow a hill-climbing algorithm to maximize the amount of money I was making. So I imagined something like a random-restart approach might work: let's jump somewhere totally different and try climbing any hills we find there. Plus, I knew that people were willing to give money for baked goods, so I figured that simplified the business component to an extent.

It turns out I was right - I did find a hill to climb and I've gotten a lot better at business in general.

The dilemma now is I really enjoy coding and actually think I have the skills to run a softare business (which could ultimately be more lucrative), but have a growing food business on my hands. I'm certainly not complaining - really, anything that brings me more money to buy stuff like a dryer makes me happy - but sometimes I feel out of place.

Now that I've hired a manager for the bakery, I have a bit more control of my time and I've recently been able to take on a bit of consulting work, which has turned out well, and I'm pumping the money into growing the bakery.

I think that's the optimal strategy I can follow for now. What do you guys think? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my relatively twisted path.

[koepked]

As I write this the above comment is 31 points! Please don't view this as a complaint, and to eof especially, I'm not saying the comment isn't worth that value. It just seems like an anomaly to me. Is it because everyone wants to know what the business is?

[mhartl]

I took him up on it.

This alone is a hugely valuable lesson. When you need help, and someone offers help, accept the help. (Of course, you had already learned the first lesson: When you need help, ask for help.)

[justlearning]

would you be willing to divulge details on your app/business and country you reside in? Does this income sustain your family?

$300-400 usd seems very little to get by. At the time of your posting, it seemed like a "student" in need of the cash.

It's pay back time - your experiences,lessons learnt will be appreciated.

[needmoney]

I am not a student. I am young, not married, and do not have kids. I live in a developing country in Asia and am frugal: I could buy a dryer, but I hang my clothes to dry instead.

[ynniv]

$400 USD is quite prosperous in many parts of the world. Not in the US, or the wealthier nations.

[tlack]

What a great story. You should put together a "five things I learned" mini post and let us all read it. And tell us more about your biz - do you sell through ThemeForest?

[Revisor]

What did you learn in the process? What would you tell your older self?

[needmoney]

I feel silly answering this because there are much more qualified people here to give advice, but I'll answer because you asked and because it's also useful for me to reflect. I hadn't really done it.

In random order:

Employees watch what you do very carefully. Their behavior is strongly influenced by yours.

Having several conservative ways to make small amounts of money if necessary is good.

Emotional stability is an important skill. The ability to dampen both optimism and anxiety is something that comes with experience, I think. Multiple backup plans help with the latter.

It is relatively easy to siphon off pieces of business when the market is large. Profitable competition tells me that I can probably find buyers, so long as I can think of a twist.

Being a generally friendly, helpful person, even to people who you think have nothing to offer you in return, is good for business. I'm a much friendlier person now than I was when I started. I've also found being friendly and helpful just makes me happy.

[kloncks]

I'd love to hear more details too, especially the name of the country you live in.

One of the beautiful thing about the Internet is how it allows you to set up nice lifestyle businesses. If I have a successful application (I'm 20), I could easily travel around the world working wherever there is an Internet connection and just getting by nicely. At least for a few years!

[matthewhelt]

its stories like this which have been very encouraging in my own venture.

a comment on the cost of living in the united states, and how to do it cheaply. i live in oakland, california - in the heart of the san francisco bay area. my cost of living is incredibly low, my rent is $300, utilities are about $90 a month and that includes power and 1MB network connection. i ride a bike everywhere i go, don't own a car. i cook all my own food, i purchase organic produce for cheap at the local farmers market.

my entire monthly living expenses are less than 500 dollars, in a location where i can get to financial district of san francisco in about 14 minutes.

my business venture is based in my bedroom, my tech co-founder lives in mendocino county. we're currently in product development phase creating an analytical system for precision viticulture. we're getting ready to start our first adventures in funding.

reading stories about people buckling down, focusing on their ventures, and achieving success has (for lack of a better term) inspired me. hacker news and the whole entrepreneurial community in the bay area have been key to informing my decisions.

[bmelton]

Congratulations -- but uhm... shouldn't you check back in with Patrick and make sure his needs are met? I mean, he's Customer #1, and it sounds like your reaction to that was to abandon him.

I might be misreading, or Patrick may have backfilled you, but the 1 thing I know about business to be more true than most things, is you take care of your early customers, specifically if they were good to you.

[wwortiz]

From Patrick:

> I'd be able to give you one project a month for $400 until you either got sick of doing them or decided to move upmarket.

[http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171663]

[tptacek]

Evolving relationships are a fact of life in consulting. Sometimes relationships grow, or even engulf the whole business, like Lucky Strike did for SCDP in Mad Men and Microsoft has done with a number of security consultancies. Other times, relationships become vestigial or vanish entirely.

The entire point of consulting arrangements is to allow businesses to set the most flexible and reasonable terms to work under. If Patrick wanted a Wordpress theme factory forever, he could have made that a contract term. Somehow, I doubt he did.

Matasano engaged Patrick. We may be one of his earliest clients! Somehow, I doubt he'll be as available for tactical one-off projects for much longer. That makes me happy.

[needmoney]

You're right. But Patrick indicated to me that he was happy for me and that he would understand if I couldn't go on. I'll be totally honest, I should've kept in better sync with him and I felt terrible that my 2nd project fell behind schedule, but I really found myself totally engulfed in putting out fires in my personal business. Nothing went according to plan. I didn't abandon his project though, I finished it and got it to him a little late. I was just looking at it again today and I saw some problems I hadn't noticed before, so I sent him a patch.

It's really only now that I'm starting to get back a bit of time where I can do things like write this. I sent him an email telling him about this thread, but I'd bet he's asleep now.

[patio11]

I got exactly what I wanted: a beautiful theme done for $400. As I recall he was worried a bit about leaving me in the lurch later. I told him that he didn't need my blessing to move on, but had it anyway.

[messel]

I can't compete with surviving at $400 a month. That alone is amazing. The fact that you built a business is inspiring. Thanks for sharing your tale needmoney.

As others have mentioned, we'd like to know what your business is. Is it web based? Are you manufacturing widgets? Share the details :D

[needmoney]

I live in a developing country, share an apartment, and am relatively frugal. I do however spend money on things that save me significant amounts of time.

[aeden]

Good on ya for 1.) asking and 2.) executing. Most people don't even get to item 1.

[AlexMuir]

and 3.) thanking others for their help.

[jseliger]

A quick question: do you have a site for your work? I ask because I've been using a pretty bogus, standard theme for my hosted Wordpress blog (http://blog.seliger.com) and could probably swing $400 for a real theme.

[messel]

Business number 2 for needmoney, building the Theme Factory.

I can't decide if I want to customize themes or hire a designer. I've tweaked my own theme a dozen times this year.

[johngalt]

Always great to hear another success story. Not only have you managed to help yourself, but those five people now have a better circumstance as well. Good job, keep it up.

[Jasitis]

how do i start doing this

[barnaby]

Guys don't downvote somebody on their FIRST POST on HN. This guy may legitimately want to know how to do this, that's one hell of a good reason to be on HN.

Jastis, to answer your question, you do it one step at a time, because if you try to do too many things (or too big of a thing) at once then nothing gets done. Bite off one small thing a day and you'll be amazed how much gets done in half a year.

[gatsby]

I recommend you read this post by Seth Godin if you haven't already: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/09/if-you-want-...

I think he nails it. Want to start doing something? Do it. It won't be pretty at first but you'll learn from your own experiences which is invaluable. And, by selling just $50 of services or products to your friends next month, you'll be $50 closer to your goals.

[mynameisraj]

Great to hear! I'm also curious as to what your business is.

Congrats on getting to a better place; hopefully you can go further and expand more!

[endtime]

Wow - amazing the impact a single extra man-month had on your business. Congrats!

[pacomerh]

Nice!, that's very inspiring, specially for the fact that you weren't afraid of asking for help. Lately I've been putting my pride aside and have been asking my friends, family and people I know about my services, and they don't necessarily give me work, but they link me to other people who need it. My whole point is that being open is really crucial, at first I didn't want to look as they friend who needed work really, but know I'm asking friends to help me with some projects (web production btw).

It would be nice to read about your whole experience though. Thx

[ritonlajoie]

What a very refreshing story ! Thanks for sharing. I wan't on HN when this happened but I read all the 1171520 thread and spent almost 2 hours on different discussions that your thread is spawning, related to ebook sales, wordpress theming, etc..

I think the majority of HN readers are just like you : interested in what _we_, as 'hackers', can do. Related to 'change the world', or 'make money'. The thing is to combine both. You seem to be pretty well. Bravo and keep up the good work !

[plainOldText]

Great story, but I hope people won't get inspired by this in the direction to start submitting their request for help for non-sense/non-relevant aspects to the HN Community.