Ask HN: I'm 40 this year, and have depression. Any words of wisdom?

[petecooper]

I read comments and stories here most days, occasionally comment on or submit things, and hold HN in high regard for the variety and quality of discourse.

I'm 40 this year and as a milestone birthday it has me ruminating on how to steer my life in the coming few years. At 20, I was a technical support manager with 20+ staff. At 25, I was travelling the world as a technical trainer and event speaker. At 30, I was self-employed with a good income from podcasting. At 35, I was divorced and had to start from scratch. For nearly 5 years, things in my life have been a lot harder to do achieve than they should be. At 40, I'm at a crossroads with a metaphorical blank canvas. I want to be more content with life at 45, 50 and 60.

My job (technical consultant, proactive and reactive) keeps the roof over my head, but I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning to do it. My motivation is at an ebb. I don't exercise enough, but I'm starting over with that. I've started intermittent fasting for mental clarity and that seems to be helping -- and this Ask HN post wouldn't have happened without it.

I have anhedonia, but I've accepted that when I find something fun that'll go away. It's a symptom of the low-level depression that comes and goes, and the best medicine I've found for me is fresh air and exercise. This should not be considered a cry for help, it's something I have a rational control of, most of the time.

And so, I Ask HN: I'm 40 this year, and mentally damaged -- any words of wisdom?

Thanks very much for reading.

[elmerfud]

First, stop thinking of yourself as mentally damaged. You're normal. If by the time you're 30-40 and you haven't realized that all new things that you encounter will eventually go away, then you're mentally damaged. It's a normal transition from shortsighted childishness to farsighted maturity.

You're in the prime of your life. You're at a stage where you have skills and experience to do lots of things and make decent money. Your job may be boring as hell, but view your job as a tool. It something that gives you the means to do what you want.

That is the hard part, figuring out what you want. Ultimately contentment comes from within but it's easier to have with the correct external forces supporting you. Things at this point in your life should be easier to achieve, not because they are in fact easier because often time they are more difficult tasks, but because you have years of experience knowing that you can overcome any obstacle placed in your path.

I'm 45 and can relate to much of what you've said. I wish I had time to write more, but you really are in your prime. Do want you need to do so you can do what you want to do. Those two things should be very balanced at this point in your life, whereas when you're younger you're always doing the needs and you never have time to think about your wants.

[petecooper]

Thank you. I read your reply 5 or so hours ago and had to go to a meeting, hence my delay in reply. I've re-read it another three times.

My assertion of mental damage is was perhaps badly phrased. Yes, it's a sliding scale, and the more people I meet, the more I understand most people have their demons…some will admit to them, others won't. Not wanting to backpedal, but my choice of words wasn't ideal

Also, I noticed someone (not me) had changed the title to "[…] and have anhedonia.", and currently it's "[…] and have depression." I'm fine with either, both or all three, but clearly I've tripped a filter and someone's had to step in.

Semantics aside, I really appreciate your reply - thank you very much.

[jamesrcole]

> First, stop thinking of yourself as mentally damaged. You're normal

I think it's unhelpful to assert things like that when we don't have enough information for making definitive statements. Perhaps they do have some genuine and serious issues? We can't know just from the description given. If they do then acting like they don't isn't very helpful.

[dfsegoat]

As others have stated, the biggest thing is to stop beating yourself up - stop calling yourself damaged.

Also, you need to start exercising - it is the only thing for me personally that will keep "the darkness" at bay. The research and neurobiology behind exercise being an effective modulator of mood is all solid.

Further, I recommend you listen to Jocko Podcast [1] - by Jocko Willink, a retired Navy SEAL commander, he does some great interviews with guys like Col. Bill Reeder, who spent several years in a POW camp.

Think about guys like John Mccain, who spent 6 years being tortured, neglected and beaten day in and day out -- and it really starts to put things in perspective, because he put ALL of that trauma aside and went on to lead a fairly remarkable career, and raise a family etc.

1 - http://jockopodcast.com/2017/02/22/63-through-the-valley-my-...

[datadwarfs]

I listen to Jocko too- It's an excellent podcast! If you like Jocko, then you'll probably like Jordan Peterson too. His audiobook "12 rules for life" on audible is great because he narrates it.

[cpr]

Everything else sounds good, but McCain is not what he seems:

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-...

[AnnoyingSwede]

Like a few other mentioned, don't label your self as damaged and even avoid labling yourself by a prognos you might or might not have gotten. During my life i have seen quite a handful of people with rather small problems blowing them up into unreasonably large sandcastles that only prohibited further development and covered every bridge they wanted to pass.

Like many other here i loved computers as a kid but growing up making it my job made me lose that love, and i barelly hack software at home anymore. The reason i love being at work is because i have great coworkers, not that i burn for what i do. I bet a lot here can identify themselves with this here.

If i could just give you one advise, it would be: Get a 1000cc superbike. I have a very short commute to work, but i only need to ride 5 minutes to come to work all pumped with adrenalin, which i replace with a coffeine-rush as i step in to the office. The rest of the day flows, and i can't wait to get back on my bike to go home. This might not be a one-size-fits-all-solution, but it's worth a try and a mention.

Good luck mate.

[barrkel]

I do 35 minutes on a 300cc scooter through London.

Too much adrenaline could be a danger sign. For me, there's flow in efficiently navigating the traffic, positioning for vision and visibility, predicting the way cars are going to swerve and where pedestrians are going to pop out. I could go faster, but risk increases non-linearly. As it is, I'm continuously overtaking vehicles.

(I also have a 130hp MV Agusta Brutale, but I don't commute on it often.)

[anothergoogler]

One nit to pick, a beginning rider should NOT get a 1000cc superbike and then use it for an adrenaline rush. That's a ticket to the ER/morgue.

[Arun2009]

If you haven't heard of it yet, I suggest that you look at Albert Ellis's Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT), and start training yourself to aggressively fight any demons that might be haunting you. I highly recommend Ellis's book, "A Guide to Rational Living", which will train you in challenging your own self-defeating thoughts. Note that I don't mean this as a cure-all, but merely as one of the tools you (or anyone else!) should have in their life's toolbox.

The fundamental premise of REBT is that it's not the events in our lives themselves, but our beliefs about the events that upset our emotional state. Hence to change our negative emotions, we must attack through reason the beliefs that promote negative emotional states. Here's is a useful summary of the REBT approach: https://rebtnetwork.org/whatis.html .

What I love most about REBT is that it trains us to be our own therapist. That is quite empowering and liberating!

[petecooper]

>What I love most about REBT is that it trains us to be our own therapist.

Thank you for your advice and recommendation -- I have just purchased a copy of the book.

[RobertRoberts]

It sounds like you are doing what all of have to. I am just over 40, and I have had a similar set of experiences. Getting back on the horse is the cure. Try going out on a date. My brother, a few years older, had it worse than I did in some ways, and is just starting to date again and it took him a while but he's happy he's met someone similar to him in life now.

Compare this with a friend who (late 30s) complains about being lonely but won't ask a woman out that he likes. It hits a point where you need to just dive in and face everything. But, by the way you wrote your post here, it seems like you are doing that. Keep going, you won't feel better until you make a breakthrough, but you won't make a breakthrough if you give up.

Just trust that steady forward progress makes results. I hope you do well. I think many of us techies had rousing younger years and some have a harder time adjusting to slowing down or changing our perspective when life slows down around us.

[mrburton]

I'm turning 40 this year too; 2019 I'll be 40.

Let's be honest with one another? You need to change your thinking and behavior. It's all mental and you know it. Feed into the bullshit negative thinking and it'll continue to grow and take over your life.

You already know the answer - go out and experience new things. Take a road trip, have a beer, watch two grown ass men kick the shit out of one another in an MMA fight or go to a coffee shop with a book and tell yourself "Today, I let the moment slip by while I sip on coffee" and remember...

Stop over thinking life. You can't control it and you'll never win if you think you can control it.

Life is like a box of chocolates - eventually it'll be empty and kicked to the side of the road. For now, its full and everyone wants a piece.

[phakding]

This is what I realized; no matter how much you love your work/profession when you started out, it's impossible to keep that flame of curiosity and interest after 15-20 years of work. You need to get away from it frequently to rekindle that flame. Find hobbies that have nothing to do with technology or computers or programming like playing instruments, hiking, running, knitting or whatever else that interests you.

[nimbius]

full time engine mechanic here. ASE certified and everything...ive been doing it for 15 years. Some days are worse than others, like when im coming back from a 3 day weekend full of cadillac margaritas and over-grilled burgers...but nothing like what you describe.

When I think 'mentally damaged' im picturing someone who sticks their hand in a running engine to 'feel if the belts are moving ok.' You're doing pretty good from what I can tell, but ever since I started checking out HN ive seen quite a few people in tech that feel the same way you do.

Is it offices that do this? nobody I know in my office ever seems really happy in the morning. seems like sitting around all day staring at a computer might start to eat away at a mans soul.

If money isnt an issue, I'd suggest spending time learning a trade as a hobby or maybe more. maybe pick up a shift changing oil at a local shop, and see how that grabs you. Im not saying its the easiest thing in the world, but the job is pretty social and even though your shoulders and arms ache after the first day, you never feel like you arent doing something useful.

[honkycat]

Are you seeing a therapist?

I would highly recommend going to a therapist. I had the same problem around a year ago, and having an unbiased person to go and talk to about my feelings once a week, keep track of my moods and persistent frustrations, and help me set and meet realistic goals was extremely helpful. I also made it clear I was not interested in taking any medication.

I went for about a year straight, but I don't go anymore. I still value the time I spent in therapy and thought it was helpful. I simply progressed enough such that the ball was in my court. I'll probably go back in a year or two.

[LyndsySimon]

I'm 34, and it sounds like I struggle with a lot of the same emotional issues that you do.

I wish I had a better answer for you, but all I have is "just keep swimming".

The first time I experienced depression and anhedonia, it basically broke me. I was truly despondent and was almost incapable of hope for the future. In time - and with the help of family, my wife, psychologists, and prescription drugs - it lifted.

That first time took almost two years before I saw the first glimmers of hope again; two years before I felt anything, really. Thereafter, just knowing that it was a temporary state and that it had passed before help more than anything else. I go through bouts of it every few months now and during that time I'm much less effective in both my personal and professional life, but it passes much more quickly and with much less effort from me.

I just... wait it out. I recognize that the way I feel isn't based on real inputs, but is just a part of the way my body works. I strongly distrust my own emotions, and always verify that what I'm feeling has a rational basis. If it doesn't, I do my best to make decisions without regard for how I feel about the.

And yes, being outside seems to help me quite a bit.

[TheAlchemist]

Well, I would recommend starting some serious exercising. What are you doing ? Lifting weights ? Running ?

If you're into running it would be great to fix some longer term goals, like running a marathon or a trail. I've found that long distance running and everything that goes with it, provides an enormous joy and an overall improvement in life perception. And if you do run, go running in a forest or at least in a park - not in a gym.

[CodeWriter23]

I don’t know if this would apply to you. Your story sounds similar to mine, so I’ll share what I did, just in case. I also apologize in advance if this does not apply.

That said, I found my depression was a direct result of consuming depressants. Alcohol, weed, anything else I could get my hands on. Suicidal ideation was the order of the day. I got clean almost 23 years ago with the help of a 12-Step program. It sounds like an odd choice for an Atheist like myself. But it was absolutely the best thing I ever did for myself. I’d really like to tell you my life is a bowl of cherries all day every day. But that would be a lie. I do have a life that I was incapable of envisioning for myself. I am married, I am a dad and I’m pursuing my dream building my own company. I’m completely in love with my wife and my nine-year-old daughter. I get to feel a wide range of emotions. Every day. I get to be present for everything. I get to participate in every decision in my life, instead of living life by the default settings. And I get to be responsible for every one of those choices. It is freedom for my mind, my heart, and my body.

[dkitchen]

You've got strengths and are already aware of several variables (exercise, fasting) you can control to increase your well-being and decrease your suffering. I encourage you to keep moving in the direction of ever increasing possibilities. I offer you 3 Immutable Laws of Forward Motion:

1. Pain. 2. Uncertainty 3. Ceaseless Effort

Any attempts to exonerate yourself from these laws will necessarily lead to the sense of being stuck (without options) and hopeless (without possibilities). However if you accumulate skills to embrace these laws, you will increase well-being both for yourself and those you care about.

When you say, "things in my life have been a lot harder to do/achieve than they should...", you're headed for a dead end. Any plan that seeks contentment as a destination is likely to be a dead end. The best game to play has no promise of "win" or "lose". It's the game where you get to keep playing. Evolution seems to be playing that game, and it has produced some fairly numinous wonders. You being one of them.

[benjohnson]

That you're seeking contentment over happiness says to me that you're wise - and without knowing your particular details, I would generally recommend starting a family.

For me, seeing my children grown in love provides me with the most contentment I've ever had.

[DoreenMichele]

I have anhedonia, but I've accepted that when I find something fun that'll go away. It's a symptom of the low-level depression that comes and goes

The ancients had a saying: A sound mind in a sound body.

I think lack of enjoyment is often due to lack of energy, plus unrecognized health issues. There is a lot of research linking depression to diet and brain inflammation. Off the top of my head, a Mediterranean Diet is sometimes shown as correlating to less brain inflammation and less depression. The olive oil used in it is thought to be one of the reasons.

So on top of the fasting and exercise, consider looking at research of that ilk, start a food and health journal and carefully experiment with diet to see if anything clicks.

Best.

[thinkingkong]

Genuinely happy youve reached out to a community to help. First off Ill say that you’ll probably get a ton of different answers but nobody can really understand your motivation, your “blocks”, what you think the issues are, etc in a post. That kind of thing takes some work and time with a really good counselor/ therapist.

Id really suggest finding someone. Dont go for fancy titles, just look around your area and start coming up with some criteria. Would you feel more comfortable with a male or female? Phd and brainey or soul searching? Meet with 5 people. They should all offer free 30min sessions for you to at least see if you’ll click

Go with your instincts and trust them.

And please, keep up with the exercise.

[dole]

If you haven't had a regular therapist and start looking, realize that it usually takes a few visits with you mostly talking to establish enough history in order for them to start sorting you out. If you don't start clicking with them in 5-6 sessions or so, look elsewhere.

[m3mpp]

Religion/spirituality is a great asset, especially as we get older.

[dawidw]

> At 35, I was divorced and had to start from scratch.

That seems to be the root of the problem. Do you have children?

[ak39]

I thought so too. But didn’t want to post because it is a total guess.

Breaking and ending a once loving, intimate and totally absorbing relationship is one of the hardest things for a human to endure. The end of anything is always sad, the end of relationships most of all.

But again, we are guessing. Life’s multifactorial and single issues often connect, catalyse and exaggerate what the mind imagines to be a single stress.

Wish the OP all the best.

[nrjames]

I've skipped off of the surface of mid-life crisis for a few years, wondering often how to find meaning in life. The only advice I have is to seek happiness from within, whatever that means for you. You're unlikely to 'turn the corner' seeking external fulfillment. For me, I have to make/create things in order to be happy. That can be hard to fit into life, but now that I've figured out that I need it, I try to build time into my schedule.

[d2161]

Go see a medical professional. They can connect you to a counsellor, someone who can give you more evidence based actionable ways to get yourself back on your feet.