We just got accepted in to YC Summer 2008 this past weekend. Before this past Wednesday, I worked as a financial analyst at a small due diligence firm where I could wear what ever I wanted to work, had relatively flexible hours, got paid pretty well and loved my coworkers.
Let me take you to that Wednesday: Bossman called me in and said he was pleased with my performance since December and gave me a promotion (essentially a 10-20k raise). He also added that some final details needed to be worked out before it would go in to effect.
After nodding and saying thanks, I told him to hold off as I had just received early stage seed funding and would be moving to Boston June 1. He was at a loss for words ...and so I was. It was awkward/hilarious. After what seemed like a minute pause, we started a conversation. He shared with me his regret for not trying to make it as a major league baseball player (he was a stud ballplayer at a Division I University) while I shared with him how much I had enjoyed working at his firm. At the end of our conversation he gave me his full support and definitely understood why I was doing it.
Dissimilar to many of the people out there, I don't hate my job or loathe my coworkers, I just wanted to try something different - something I'm excited about every time I wake up in the morning.
Trying to launch a startup while having a real job (and in my case another side business) is just too much. I was spread too thin.
So I guess to formally answer your question: the urge to try something different and work for yourself regardless how good (or not so good) your current situation is.
My boss wanted to be a photographer, or run his own mortgage company. A) seems out of the question for him at this stage in life but B) might still be possible.
I see it like this: I can always go and work for a big company and make good money. But right now, that's not what I want to do. I want to explore, I want to take risks, I want to be a little crazy. I am not really afraid since the worst that can happen is gaining experience.
I am so incredibly valuable and smart and strong and [...] that I will get a high-paid job anytime I want. It's there, I just need to collect it. But I don't want to. Not yet.
So I guess the most valuable personality trait must be self-confidence (read: overconfidence).
The reason I left a cushy, high-paying job was that I think I can always get another cushy, high-paying job even when I'm older. On the other hand, my mid-twenties are years when I can afford to take (calculated) risks and do all the things I know I will have regretted not doing when I'm in my 30s and 40s and have more responsibilities.
I was also surprised how many people at and above my level in a big company seemed envious that I'd go to a startup.
One day you realize that you only have x days on this earth and y of them are already gone.
You don't want to waste any more of your remaining (x-y) days refactoring the same poorly written crap for the eighth time, answering the same 84 inane emails, drinking the same lousy coffee, looking at your watch through another pointless walk-through meeting, and listening to the idiotic pontifications of a boss who you would never talk to in a million years if you weren't here.
You know you can do better. You know you have it in you. You know you can make a difference. Then you know you have to. So you get out your calculator, work your finances, and when you have it all figured out, you turn in your notice and enjoy the best day of your life.
The part where you spend two years on your magnum opus, your hit the end of your runway, your company goes out of business, and your IP becomes the property of investors who will never (a) use it in any way or (b) allow you to use it in any way.
We only talk about the most successful startups. Most companies --- most of the 1 in 8 YC companies that get A-rounds, even --- fail. We don't talk about them.
refactoring the same poorly written crap for the eighth time
Which part of this is different in a startup? The refactoring, or the quality of the code?
It seems to me that while working at a startup is a good way to guarantee that you'll never have time to refactor your code, it does nothing to ensure that your code -- or that of your cow-orkers -- will be any good.
In my case, you missed the part where my employer's stock value dropped to $2 and the whole company was sold at wholesale to a group across the street.
If I gotta be connected to those kinds of risks, I want more control and more freedom.
It's about doing what you want, taking a risk, and not being afraid. To me, it's about having creative freedom and enjoying your day. Every morning I wake up and am ready to go to work, 9-5, sometimes much longer.
Sitting on my butt doing little to improve my self or a company (ie: being some corporate tool) would kill me
Because it will make you happier, if the cushy job is not making you happy that you are seriously thinking about leaving for a start up then you probably should. Note if the start up will put you in REAL poverty, not decreased living standard, but serious poverty or risk (i.e. lack of health insurance, something catastrophic happens).
Studies show that material gains beyond a certain point do make much difference in happiness. Note that diminished relative status can contribute to decline in happiness, so take the ego comment seriously too. You better have one if you go startup.
Some people suck at doing even the easiest of things when they are told what to do. They tend to do much better when they can choose what to do to solve a problem or create a solution.
If you are in a corp environment doing things the way you'd like or want means you have to be a senior level IC or some sort of a team leader. But getting to that in the best of corporate cultures would mean you have you 'do' what you are told for 3-5 years - the same thing that you hate and would like to stop doing.
You would have 2 primary options#.
Go through the motions for abt 3 years and then hope you can get in to a meaningful position and do things the way you'd like...
Or, join a startup that works on something that thrills you and instantly start doing things the way you'd envision it. (You have the added incentive of having a shot at becoming really rich through a buyout or an IPO)
# - Other factors like family, current financial condition, the "real" scenario at your current place of work etc, are likely to add weights to the 2 options
I think that there's a distinct bias in your question. The question pre-supposes that the default should be to get a job, sell your time to someone else and get cash in exchange for money. Why does that have to be the default position. You could rephrase the question, "Why would someone stay at their soul-sucking 9-5 job making money for someone else, when they could try and solve the money problem once and for all by making money for yourself instead?"
Job vs Startup, the issue is the same: you're trying to solve the money problem. It's two different solutions to the same problem. Many of us on hacker news think that the smarter way to solve the problem is by starting a startup/business.
Now, you also mentioned "join" a startup. I wouldn't leave a company to work for someone else's startup. I will leave my job to start my own company, however.
A pink slip ... after 5 long years of loyal service and hard work. It is at times like that when you realize that working at a fulltime job is something you should do ONLY if you have absolutely no alternatives.
If you've managed your career, when you get a pink slip, you should be less than two months away from restoring or even enhancing your income.
If you're committed to startups, and your current startup craters, you could be 9-18 months from revenue.
It's just a fact: for any reasonable definition of "wealthy", more people reliably become wealthy by carefully saving and investing the income from a well-managed career than by any get-rich-quick scheme.
Don't do it for the money. You're not going to make any.
People seem to confuse small-scale financial success with google-style massive money. Even if your company doesn't take off, if you can secure a round of funding you can pay yourself fairly well.
And consider that it's a long-term investment in your career as well. A former startup founder is probably worth more than another similarly skilled person for a given task, even a given engineering task. It's like a college degree in that it implies a certain level of dedication that is difficult to gauge otherwise.
It can be money, with the chance of big financial reward over financial stability. Sometimes it can just for the excitement, challenge or freedome of being your own boss and calling the shots.
[+] [-] fallentimes|18 years ago|reply
We just got accepted in to YC Summer 2008 this past weekend. Before this past Wednesday, I worked as a financial analyst at a small due diligence firm where I could wear what ever I wanted to work, had relatively flexible hours, got paid pretty well and loved my coworkers.
Let me take you to that Wednesday: Bossman called me in and said he was pleased with my performance since December and gave me a promotion (essentially a 10-20k raise). He also added that some final details needed to be worked out before it would go in to effect.
After nodding and saying thanks, I told him to hold off as I had just received early stage seed funding and would be moving to Boston June 1. He was at a loss for words ...and so I was. It was awkward/hilarious. After what seemed like a minute pause, we started a conversation. He shared with me his regret for not trying to make it as a major league baseball player (he was a stud ballplayer at a Division I University) while I shared with him how much I had enjoyed working at his firm. At the end of our conversation he gave me his full support and definitely understood why I was doing it.
Dissimilar to many of the people out there, I don't hate my job or loathe my coworkers, I just wanted to try something different - something I'm excited about every time I wake up in the morning.
Trying to launch a startup while having a real job (and in my case another side business) is just too much. I was spread too thin.
So I guess to formally answer your question: the urge to try something different and work for yourself regardless how good (or not so good) your current situation is.
[+] [-] Prrometheus|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abless|18 years ago|reply
So I guess the most valuable personality trait must be self-confidence (read: overconfidence).
[+] [-] grahamr|18 years ago|reply
I was also surprised how many people at and above my level in a big company seemed envious that I'd go to a startup.
[+] [-] edw519|18 years ago|reply
You don't want to waste any more of your remaining (x-y) days refactoring the same poorly written crap for the eighth time, answering the same 84 inane emails, drinking the same lousy coffee, looking at your watch through another pointless walk-through meeting, and listening to the idiotic pontifications of a boss who you would never talk to in a million years if you weren't here.
You know you can do better. You know you have it in you. You know you can make a difference. Then you know you have to. So you get out your calculator, work your finances, and when you have it all figured out, you turn in your notice and enjoy the best day of your life.
Did I miss anything?
[+] [-] tptacek|18 years ago|reply
We only talk about the most successful startups. Most companies --- most of the 1 in 8 YC companies that get A-rounds, even --- fail. We don't talk about them.
[+] [-] cperciva|18 years ago|reply
Which part of this is different in a startup? The refactoring, or the quality of the code?
It seems to me that while working at a startup is a good way to guarantee that you'll never have time to refactor your code, it does nothing to ensure that your code -- or that of your cow-orkers -- will be any good.
[+] [-] jdroid|18 years ago|reply
If I gotta be connected to those kinds of risks, I want more control and more freedom.
[+] [-] mrtron|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] truebosko|18 years ago|reply
Sitting on my butt doing little to improve my self or a company (ie: being some corporate tool) would kill me
[+] [-] tptacek|18 years ago|reply
There are ways to mitigate all the BigCo problems without gambling 2-5 years of your life on a longshot.
[+] [-] ivankirigin|18 years ago|reply
That's why I decided to take the plunge.
[+] [-] richardw|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0x28aa1f185a6b4|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ccwu|18 years ago|reply
Studies show that material gains beyond a certain point do make much difference in happiness. Note that diminished relative status can contribute to decline in happiness, so take the ego comment seriously too. You better have one if you go startup.
[+] [-] tptacek|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seshadripv|18 years ago|reply
If you are in a corp environment doing things the way you'd like or want means you have to be a senior level IC or some sort of a team leader. But getting to that in the best of corporate cultures would mean you have you 'do' what you are told for 3-5 years - the same thing that you hate and would like to stop doing.
You would have 2 primary options#.
Go through the motions for abt 3 years and then hope you can get in to a meaningful position and do things the way you'd like...
Or, join a startup that works on something that thrills you and instantly start doing things the way you'd envision it. (You have the added incentive of having a shot at becoming really rich through a buyout or an IPO)
# - Other factors like family, current financial condition, the "real" scenario at your current place of work etc, are likely to add weights to the 2 options
[+] [-] iamelgringo|18 years ago|reply
Job vs Startup, the issue is the same: you're trying to solve the money problem. It's two different solutions to the same problem. Many of us on hacker news think that the smarter way to solve the problem is by starting a startup/business.
Now, you also mentioned "join" a startup. I wouldn't leave a company to work for someone else's startup. I will leave my job to start my own company, however.
[+] [-] alex_c|18 years ago|reply
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Up-or-Out-Solving-the-IT-Tur...
[+] [-] LostInTheWoods|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|18 years ago|reply
If you're committed to startups, and your current startup craters, you could be 9-18 months from revenue.
It's just a fact: for any reasonable definition of "wealthy", more people reliably become wealthy by carefully saving and investing the income from a well-managed career than by any get-rich-quick scheme.
Don't do it for the money. You're not going to make any.
[+] [-] uuilly|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blender|18 years ago|reply
http://www.amazon.com/You-Need-Be-Little-Crazy/dp/079318018X...
Cheers
[+] [-] pierrefar|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marrone|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KirinDave|18 years ago|reply
People seem to confuse small-scale financial success with google-style massive money. Even if your company doesn't take off, if you can secure a round of funding you can pay yourself fairly well.
And consider that it's a long-term investment in your career as well. A former startup founder is probably worth more than another similarly skilled person for a given task, even a given engineering task. It's like a college degree in that it implies a certain level of dedication that is difficult to gauge otherwise.
[+] [-] blader|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hates_|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] athloi|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] optimal|18 years ago|reply
http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Police/news/printartic...