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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

299 points| _nkoa | 7 years ago | reply

Hello HN,

I'm a junior dev and have been employed at my current work place for over a year. I love technology and code, less so humans. A lot less. If I had to guess I would say that I probably have some form of social anxiety/autism that makes it really painful/difficult/demanding for me to interact with other people, so I usually try to keep these "interactions" to a very strict minimum required to achieve the tasks I am attributed.

Now, recently, I've come to realize more and more, how much trouble this actually causes in the end for me, as I am perceived as that "odd" guy, that never says a thing, never hangs out at work place events, that you simply give tasks to, and ultimately the job gets done.

As I was searching to limit human-human interactions as much as I could, I ended up being treated like a machine, go figure... I get attributed tasks almost exclusively by sales/marketing people with absolutely no understanding of anything appart from the end result they want. Sometimes that ends up being a 2 word "spec", an unachievable task, some month long back and forths where they realize every other step of the way that what I implemented, which was what they asked, was not what they wanted, etc. So I am starting to get a little fed up by all of this and am at quite a loss when it comes to actually addressing these issues. I try, but I figure that I might as well document myself on the process instead of the usual trial and error one could go through.

Anyhow, as stated in the title of this Ask HN, does anybody have any ressources to recommend to someone that just started his carrier and has a demonstrated history of complete lack of such skills ? Anything is welcome really, books, documentaries, blog post, whatever you might have come across.

Thanks!

174 comments

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[+] hyperpape|7 years ago|reply
I'm surprised no one has made this distinction, but you're really talking about three kinds of communication:

1. Functional communication about the job you're doing

2. Social conversations

3. Office politics

There is overlap: #2 will help grease the wheels for #1 and #3, while #1 becomes #3 when a situation is dysfunctional/you rise in the corporate hierarchy.

Despite the overlap, these are fundamentally different things, and perhaps it will help your anxiety to realize that you don't have to be a social butterfly to do well in an office.

Myself, I've gotten a lot better at small talk (a few years doing deliveries to construction companies as a city-boy with a grad school education will force you to get out of your comfort zone), and I can crack a joke, but I'm still not the life of a party, and I come across as a little weird. Still, I can communicate with people at work.

Be honest, be yourself but do try to get past the hangups you feel, and try to understand what other people care about, how you can help them, and put them at ease. You can be on the quiet side and still do those things.

Beyond that, I'd add that you should find some people who write or speak about workplace behavior. Maybe even read something alien: something from someone in marketing, sales or a "people" job, and treat it like a matter you can study and practice, just like anything else you'd do.

[+] pc86|7 years ago|reply
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but there is nothing dysfunctional about office politics. Politics is how you get something done with a large group of people who have different individual goals, that's it. It's a necessity for achieving something greater than any of those people could achieve on their own.
[+] adrianratnapala|7 years ago|reply
> ... you don't have to be a social butterfly to do well in an office.

Indeed "social butterfly" types tend to be bad at communication in your sense #1 because they aren't clear about their terms, and don't expect it when others are.

But then highly technical nerd-engineers also often have the same problems; though perhaps for different reasons.

[+] nikk1|7 years ago|reply
Definitely read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

However, just reading a book on this subject is not enough. You will actually have to apply the principles in your everyday life. Dealing with people is kind of like an art. And just like any art (like painting) you can only get better with deliberate practice. Doing this might feel a little uncomfortable at first, but it's how we grow as people. Where I work, employees are offered tuition reimbursement for taking their official courses (https://www.dalecarnegie.com/en). The Carnegie courses helped me take the knowledge from these books and put it into practice. It was incredibly helpful for me, and aided in overcoming some of my social anxiety.

Another user also recommended toastmasters, which is probably an equal alternative if you can't get your company to pay for the courses.

[+] AchieveLife|7 years ago|reply
IMO, the book is over-hyped and not that helpful.

It's incredibly easy to spot people who utilize concepts in that book and are not being genuine in their interaction. 'Masks' are a great way to prevent authentic connection.

I've found better utility in a combination of books about positive psychology, emotions in relationships, and analytical psychology.

[+] bitL|7 years ago|reply
> Definitely read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

Don't. You'll become utterly disgusted when you realize how many people use the "hacks" from that book on you and expect certain outcomes. Or if you insist, you can anti-hack them by doing the opposite of what they expected if you are bored (though significantly lowering your chances in the game of politics). Anyway, you'll see a pointless boring game played on all levels. Never seen a (not very capable) person perceivably insincerely asking something in a certain way, self-assured of its success, with arrogant body language, and then considering a person doing what was asked a disposable, predictable trash? Well, that book has something to do with it, even if it seemingly teaches the opposite, but certain agile people use it as a human hacking manual.

[+] onemoresoop|7 years ago|reply
I definitely second this, even if it sounds like a cliche. It's how the sociable people's world works. It helps to get insight into their world.
[+] watwut|7 years ago|reply
Careful about it through. People who use those trics too apparently easily make impression of untrustworthy manipulator.
[+] josephmosby|7 years ago|reply
Two books that really helped me were Nonviolent Communication (Marshall Rosenberg) and Radical Acceptance (Tara Brach). The specific techniques outlined in the books were helpful, but I benefited more from the mentality that you can communicate the same message in multiple tones and receive different results. Some of my colleagues have also done improv comedy courses and experienced the same outcomes.

I also received some pretty sound advice around three years into my career: "just assume that people mean nothing more or less than the literal words they said to you. Don't read more into it than they actually say." I found that if I felt awkward about a situation, I was trying to read in between lines to find some reason that a person secretly hated me or were annoyed by me. They had never actually said or done anything to indicate that they even thought twice about me once I walked away, but I made up all sorts of stories about them in my head.

[+] skullt|7 years ago|reply
Strictly taking everything people say at face value is great way to become somebody who "can't take a hint." The problem is that there are many things people want to communicate but would rather not say because they're likely to lead to uncomfortable situations.

Suppose a coworker offers you mints or gum every time you speak to them. If you only take their words literally, you'll think, "Gee, what a generous person," and miss entirely their true meaning: "Your breath stinks and it's bothering me but I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'm giving you out where we can both pretend you fixed the problem before anyone noticed."

[+] jenkings|7 years ago|reply
I highly recommend improv courses. The primary thing it helped me with was talking without having fear of saying the wrong thing or having people judge me, but it also taught me the importance of _how_ you say things. Even if someone didn't do the courses I would still recommend they read Impro by Keith Johnstone.
[+] copperx|7 years ago|reply
> just assume that people mean nothing more or less than the literal words they said to you. Don't read more into it than they actually say.

One of the most brilliant professors I have met fiercely preached this belief, and I can see how it can help some interpersonal relationships. But he took it to an extreme. When somebody asked him whether he thought Trump was racist, he responded "well, has Trump said that he is a racist?". The idea is that whether a person lies or not is immaterial; you should take the persons words as the ultimate truth. He is the most well published professor in the entire university, and an internationally respected mathematician.

I tend to read everything "between the lines," and I think about my professor's words often, because I wonder whether this habit is affecting my relationships.

[+] _zskd|7 years ago|reply
I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta:

>> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills?

>> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy to have one. It means you have having a neutral person who helps you track and set goals, track your moods, and help you process work relationships and events. Michael Jordan has a coach, brain workers have therapists. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277170 )

One thing I want to make clear is that this is not going to go away without actual effort and planning on your part.

I would recommend going to a therapist and having them help you process your social interactions and set goals for improving yourself. Which, overall, is what a therapist does. Way more than the cliche "Now let's talk about your father..."

A lot of good information in here, as well. Read some books, it's good for you! It makes you smarter! People have taken time to write them for the last thousand years for a reason!

You can spare the time away from social media to read a book, I promise. And the sense of achievement you get from finishing a book feels great.

- "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read.

- "Getting to Yes" is another excellent book about workplace conflict resolution.

- There are a ton of books about emotional intelligence. Find one that sounds interesting to you and read it.

I'll also recommend "Deep Work" and "Smarter, Faster, Better" for more general workplace productivity management, but feel free to sleep on those if you feel like it.

[+] naeemtee|7 years ago|reply
> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read

I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice.

I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a robot attempting to be human.

Which, believe me, is much worse than your (OP) presumably current state of looking like an awkward mute.

HTWFAIP is like the "cold showers" of social anxiety advice. I'm confident most people who recommend this book (which is literally everyone) haven't actually read it. It's popular advice because it's popular advice, not because it's actually useful.

Dale Carnegie's books were meant for everyday corporate workers to advance their workplace and sales communication skills - not for socially awkward developers who lack base social cues. Not only that, it was in a time with completely different social nuances - unless you really want to be an idiot carrying around a notebook of everyone's birthdays and asking questions 80% of the time your mouth opens.

Social anxiety isn't cured by reading books on emotional intelligence and deep diving into the way you say things. Most self-professed "introverts", particularly developers, spent most of their lives playing video games and sitting indoors. They're not well-rounded people in the least.

When you start slowly morphing your life to be more well rounded - taking part in group activities, getting hobbies, physical activity, etc. the social stuff takes care of itself. Your goal shouldn't be to excel at small talk - your goal should be to get to the point where your life is so cool you don't give a crap how you interact socially.

Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't going to solve your social anxiety. Go play soccer.

[+] nostrebored|7 years ago|reply
Can't upvote this enough. Treating your social aversion like an immutable feature is ridiculous.

If we had a dev who's bad at coding but good at other tasks, what would we do, say that they're just innately untalented or that they need practice?

The fact of the matter is that devs are allowed to be complacent about social behavior through most of the social groups we run in and through our work. We're seen as antisocial because it's a muscle we don't flex.

[+] derefr|7 years ago|reply
> What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills?

These jobs do exist. Data entry, library clerk, trucker, for three. These are basically asocial.

Also, there are jobs where—despite being "social" in the sense of requiring collaboration—this collaboration is structured and formalized, such that you just have to "do your part" without any room for getting to know anyone. For example, line cooks, orchestra members, and, of course, soldiers.

I want to address a deeper assumption you've made here, though. You're making it seem like there are two types of people—people who have "solved" their problems (probably through therapy), and people who just "have" the problem and don't know what to do.

But you know what? Social anxiety disorder (as opposed to an environmentally-induced social phobia) isn't something you can "solve." It's something you manage. And getting a job that's less social—or being less social in other aspects of life—is exactly one of the management strategies that a therapist will recommend.

In the words of my girlfriend's psychiatrist:

> As a sufferer of social anxiety, you only have so much social energy, so much willpower that you can dedicate to this task each day. You might be able to overcome a few obstacles successfully, but at some point you'll deplete your reserve of self-confidence, and the next time you attempt to interact with someone, you'll begin to spiral. This creates—and reinforces—a low self-evaluation of your social abilities, a dislike of socializing, and a sense of learned helplessness.

> So, don't do that! Limit your exposure to social stimuli down to an amount you can handle each day, without becoming flustered. Hopefully you will be able to work your way up, but it's okay if that takes a very long time. Choose one part of your life you want to work on becoming more social in—work, romantic relationships, family, hobbies. In all other aspects of your life, restrict the amount of social contact, to decrease the likelihood of any "emergency expenses" of your social willpower popping up from those directions. You want to feel in control of social interactions—and the first step to doing that is to stop having scary, uncontrolled, overwhelming social interactions! Prune your life back to just the simple ones, and build up from there.

[+] sopooneo|7 years ago|reply
I absolutely sympathise and struggled with this myself to some extent. One thing that has worked for me is one-by-one adopting particular tactics that I see socially successful people using. And I mean I consciously note and incorporate them individually into my interactions. Eventually they get almost automatic. That may sound crazy and that it would look contrived. But I have never been called on it, no one has ever accused me of imitating another, and as far as I can tell it has been strictly beneficial. Of course, the tactics that work for me might not be the ones that would fit for you. So shop around! Watch other people and try some on.

Just for some examples of what I've adopted:

(1) When you first enter into a conversation, whether with a single person, or a group at a meeting, come in with a big smile. And actually, the worse the situation, the bigger the smile should be. I got that from my boss's boss. Likely does no apply at funerals.

(2) When listening to someone explain something, when they pause, repeat the last few words they said and nod. Like if they say, "We can't add more labor to the Jennings account, because that would pull from the Labowski project and THAT just can't happen!". You (nodding understandingly): "can't happen."

(3) When talking to non-technical people, never say the word "no". Get the idea across, and be just as clear as needed that something is not possible, but do not actually use that ego bruising two-letter word. This grates like hell against my technical mind that prefers clarity and actual reality. But I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens.

[+] ryanwaggoner|7 years ago|reply
But I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens.

Maybe because they have a more holistic view of the purpose that you’re all there for.

As a developer, your job isn’t to say yes or no. It’s to understand the problem and solve it. If no solution is available within the constraints laid out, your job is not to deliver the bad news like a robot. It’s to understand the priority of the constraints and figure out which one(s) to break so you can solve the problem.

Not picking on you, but many developers lose sight of the purpose of what they do. No business wants or needs any code or developers to write and maintain it. It’s a means to an end, and a flat “no” betrays an inversion of priorities in the developer’s mind.

I write all this as a self-employee developer by the way. It’s one reason I make a lot more than my peers who could code circles around me.

[+] dragonwriter|7 years ago|reply
#3 I would go further: any time your instinct is to say no, ask yourself two questions:

“Is this really impossible, or am I prejudging the acceptability to the questioner of the cost/effort needed?” and

“Is it likely that the questioner has prejudged a solution to their actual problem, and how can I get them to step back to the real problem, which may have a more-viable solution than the one they seem to be asking about?” (A lot of time, if you are familiar with the business domain, you can see the likely underlying problem yourself and just get them to confirm it, but otherwise you can try to walk them back to it.)

“Yes, it is possible, but it will take X, Y, and Z,” from which the client can decide it is not worth it is usually more honest, as well as more socially acceptable, than “no”.

And, “That would be difficult—but if you want to acheive X, A would provide the same benefit and be much easier to implement.” Can be better than both “no” and explaining the difficulty in th suggested course without exploring alternatives.

[+] smilesnd|7 years ago|reply
Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering through. Realizing the things I thought I handled horrible didn't even blimp on peoples radar during or social interaction. Just being me was more then enough, and to stop trying to be the person people liked (not in a popular way, but in a don't want to make people uncomfortable long story). I would suggest you find one person and go out of your way every day to make small talk even if it is just seeing how there day is going. Once you get comfortable with that you be surprise how easy it is to approach others, and expand your social circle.

Also a side note even the most social person can be really antisocial. At one contract I had we had one guy lets call Joe that was the social butterfly would setup after work gatherings for the team and everyone seem to like. One day at lunch one of our co-workers was going through some bad stuff with his family, and Joe was pressing a joke on him that was getting him so upset that I had to hold back the co-worker from beating Joe. After lunch when I got Joe by himself I try to explain the situation, and why the joke wasn't consider funny and such in case it was just going over his head and he didn't realize what he was doing. Come to find out Joe understood, and did it on purposes. Joe actually disliked everyone on the team, and his way of blowing off steam was basically picking really random fights. You wouldn't think it from looking on the outside, but after learning that I start realizing all sorts of things.

Be polite, be considerate, don't take anything personal, don't over think it, and be yourself. I know easier said then done, but you got to go at it if you want change.

[+] arethuza|7 years ago|reply
"Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering through."

I think these are areas that definitely get a lot easier with age.

[+] himynameisdom|7 years ago|reply
I was in your boat not too long ago (honestly, I'm still there but it's become better), and I realized a simple, yet effective way to interact with people without having to a.) talk as much and b.) put your opinions out there for a possible anxiety-inducing interaction.

It really came down to asking good questions. This allows people to help clarify themselves to you without you having to talk too much. It also builds your listening skills, which is probably one of the more important interpersonal skills you can attain. If you ask good questions, people will seek you out. Win-win for your interpersonal and professional goals.

As for resources, I recommend A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Idea. It's a great book with actionable items to help you ask people questions they don't normally hear, which will help people not only understand you better, but help you understand them better. In the end I wouldn't be surprised if this book helps you help other people flesh out their ideas, desires and needs.

[+] zengid|7 years ago|reply
1. Politely greet the people you pass by in the halls.

2. Practice small talk:

-Ask others about their lives and thoughts and work.

-Listen.

Try to have at least one such interaction per day. This will be really hard at first, but it gets easier.

Politics is mostly leveraging relationships. You grow them with care and a little attention over a long time.

Here's a secret. Most people are uncomfortable talking to others. You're not alone. But once you make friends with others, interactions will be more enjoyable!

Good luck!

[+] cbanek|7 years ago|reply
This is great advice. They say the way to become friends is to slowly share more details about yourself, and learn them about someone else, and be interested in both.

The only thing I should add is try and REMEMBER what they told you. If you ask the same question again and again, they will know you aren't really listening, which is almost worse than not interacting.

[+] Scown|7 years ago|reply
Also - remember at least one thing from each of those interactions that you can use again.

E.g. when you ask Sarah what she's up to on the weekend, remember she said "canoeing" so you can ask the following week how it went.

I find that helps so much when you're feeling confident enough to move past the "hi how are you?" stage.

[+] LandR|7 years ago|reply
The hard part of this Ive found is faking being interested in their answers.

I find it hard to be genuine in these interactions and I think it shows :(

[+] jimmy1|7 years ago|reply
Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle.

Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers always said you were "shy"? Is it because you have anxiety disorder or depression? You mentioned this last one might be it but aren't sure -- if you have a hunch, go talk to minimally a therapist to find out.

Toss all that shit out the window. You aren't your labels. You are exactly who you want to be.

If you don't want to be introverted anymore, don't be. As some one who was the "shy" kid and introverted from basically age 4 to 19, mainly staying inside and playing video games, it would probably shock most people to tell them that I consistently score "INTP" -- who cares. Take a pragmatic approach to it. If even the thought of being conversive, over communicating, and going to events exhausts you, that's not introversion that's probably some disorder -- you mentioned social anxiety, for me it was depression -- we are human and we were meant to communicate, be social, and relate to others. I am not saying that to say "so you are wrong" I am saying that so you understand. If there's something deep down there that is the root of that, address it. For me, going to therapy helped. For others -- the root of the social anxiety is a troubled pass: an abusive relationship, a missing father or mother, or a relationship that desperately needs mending. We put up our walls and think these things aren't affecting us, but they do. A lot of people think therapy is for people who have things "wrong" with them. I think therapy could help every single person on this earth, no shame in it at all.

The last advice -- treat it like a challenge. Have fun with it. Hack at it. Try different things. Read. A lot. Listen to your body. Best of luck on your quest!

[+] codebolt|7 years ago|reply
Co-signing this advice. I was basically in the same shoes as the OP, being the quiet office weirdo for my first few years, usually getting very tense in meetings and so on. These days I'm effortlessly starting discussions, speaking my mind openly in meetings, etc, and have never had it better professionally or socially, at work or otherwise. I won't try to distill my personal transformation into a step-by-step recipe for others to repeat, but at least know that with persistent effort, change is possible.
[+] oerb|7 years ago|reply
this advice is good and bad at once in my live experience.

Doing is the only way to transform.

But not knowing who you are could get you on the wrong path. Introversion for example could be a learned habit but mostly lies in your genes.

[+] Alex63|7 years ago|reply
What an interesting question. Kudos to you for your self-awareness and being willing to tackle this. There's a lot of good advice in the comments (and a couple of clunkers).

I found it interesting that you phrased your interest as "learn workplace politics." From what you describe, it sounds more like this is more an issue of communications and process. I work in the consulting industry, where communications and process are often both critical to successful outcomes.

When I was starting out, I found Gerry Weinberg's books Becoming a Technical Leader, Secrets of Consulting, and The Psychology of Computer Programming to be very interesting and helpful. In fact, in one of them (I think it's Becoming a Technical Leader), Weinberg talks about how an "introvert" may actually turn out to be the more effective technical leader because they focus on solving problems instead of talking about them.

Weinberg also talks about not saying "no" (suggested in another comment), and this is something I've found to be very valuable in consulting. Rather than just telling someone their request can't be done, or accepting it mutely, tell them how much it will cost to do it (Weinberg explains this as the "Orange Juice Test" in Secrets of Consulting).

I do agree with the comment about using wireframes to confirm your understanding/spec with your users. There are other techniques that can also work (e.g., creating user stories with your stakeholders), but the common element is that you must communicate clearly, concisely, and cooperatively with others.

Sorry this comment is a little scattershot, but best of luck with your efforts.

[+] ra07312006|7 years ago|reply
Been in your situation for some years.

My anxiety was a drain on my productivity and happiness. In the end, success mean't understanding it thoroughly.

Limiting human interactions is great for the company's productivity and terrible for your own personal and emotional growth.

Some of the personal strategies that helped me: - Going on a technology cliff for a while, really trying hard to adopt a non-IT/non-code mindset. - Separation of work and life - Understanding the people we work with and why we don't all get along. - Your interests will change over the years. What is cool to code-up today may well bore you at a later date. - Physical exercise, this did wonders. Get to the gym, lift weights, get out and run.

Some resources I kept coming back to: - 16personalities.com or any lengthy MBTI explanations. - Podcasts on people and culture. E.g: This American Life from NPR is a well known one. - Books, movies, plays and podcasts that I initially labeled as 'boring' and uninteresting. This was discovered from all the people I did not vibe with.

Good luck OP. You can do it!

[+] tj-teej|7 years ago|reply
I would encourage you to find a mentor who understands you. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many engineers identify with the story you told.

I think it's harder to "pick-up" the skills by reading generic, broad advice in the form of blogs, books, and more effective to find a person you can trust, who can give you advice on how to handle real situations you're going through.

You'll be happier/more effective in the short term (as the mentor will guide you through these interactions), and you'll see the patterns of how to deal with these situations over the long term (picking up the skills).

You'll pick up the skills faster than you think! Good luck! :)

[+] meesterdude|7 years ago|reply
To that, this is a service I offer: improving the socialbility and softskills of developers and teams.

There's some decent advice in this thread. And no matter what you do it'll take work and change. But if anyone wants to improve on their softskills, i'd be happy to work with you! [email protected]

[+] jppope|7 years ago|reply
Lots of good advice below but given your background you might want to consider approaching it like a project. Set reasonable objectives and goals, track progress, hold yourself accountable, and build on previous skills that you have acquired.

Some other thoughts: - It's super important that you know that the concept of introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-brained"(Ex. https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-things-a....

- Don't be ashamed of building yourself scripts, or practicing small talk techniques by yourself. It feels awkward at first but really helps to have something to fall back to when you need a plan

- Don't assume that social skills are natural, or innate. Groups like toastmasters exist because things like public speaking are difficult to master.

[+] hyperpape|7 years ago|reply
"Some other thoughts: - It's super important that you know that the concept of introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-brained"(Ex. https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-things-a...

The article does not offer any citations, and does not discuss the history of the concepts of introversion and extroversion. Even the most basic search reveals that the concept of extraversion is one of the factors of the Big Five personality model, the most influential model of personality that psychology has (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits). There are literally thousands of studies that have used this model.

[+] blihp|7 years ago|reply
There has been some good advice on how you can work on your social skills but that's only part of your problem. The other part of your problem is the type of customer you're dealing with. Sales/marketing folks are often highly non-linear thinkers who live and die by their soft skills. So you are probably going to find that how they feel about you is going to dominate your relationship and status with them more than any actual results. In most sales/marketing environments I've seen you can pretty much toss things like logic, formal processes and written specs out the window. The mental space they live in and environment they operate in is very different than say finance or engineering which tends to be at the other end of the spectrum.

Something to seriously consider is trying to get out of that environment... it's not for everyone. You don't necessarily need to leave the company, but rather as you develop your social skills try to start building relationships in other departments and use them to find a path out. Politics are everywhere but the degree to which politics drive things can vary considerably from department to department and is often less dominant in less 'squishy' parts of the business.

[+] tekkk|7 years ago|reply
My dear boy, [redacted]. I wish I was at your work place to help you but alas, I am not so this short message will have to suffice.

There is a lot of different parts for improving your social skills. Just getting out and talking to more people is probably a good way to start. But you probably want specific instructions? :) If your anxiety stems from some insecurities that you can help to reduce that would be a good idea to do. Starting going to the gym was really life-changing for me. Again, I wish I was there to show you how easy it actually is once you get past the initial discomfort.

But social skills, yes. Having a great group of friends whom you can talk to in regular basis I think is an excellent way of keeping those skills sharp. However, if you find yourself lacking on that part and have been for a long time then it's kinda difficult to start. What I recommend then instead is starting a hobby in which you can practise them. I have myself enjoyed improvisational theatre immensely! Hopefully you can find a group that is beginner friendly and you can get over your performing shyness (I am still not there and I have been doing it for two months).

Anyway, probably any hobby that requires high amount of social interaction is good. Impro, I think, forces you to build up that wit and social finesse which helps a lot with any basic interactions. Building up social skills *will* take time so don't give up when you feel that it's no working. Reading up a book or two won't help you I'm sorry to say, you have to get out and do it - whatever form it might be. It's doable, the only limit will be how far you are willing to go.

[+] S_Bear|7 years ago|reply
I was awkward and weird when I started out, but took some steps to get better. Here's what worked for me, YMMV:

1) Work retail: If you can, get a 2-4 hr a week PT retail gig, working register. Nothing forces you to get better at micro-conversations than having 20-30 short term disposable interactions.

2) Semi-follow your local sports teams. I don't watch baseball or football, but I always know how the Twins and Vikings are doing. If I' talking to someone who's really into it, I just nod along and agree with whatever point they're making about free agency, starting rotations, etc. Earns me a lot of goodwill with no actual effort on my part.

3) Know people's names and have canned responses ready. Salespeople thrive on this. Whenever I see people I acknowledge them and we have an exchange. "Hey Bill! How's life" "Another day in paradise" "At least it's not snowing, right?" Done. Goodwill up, no extra effort. The point of these conversations is to establish basic humanity to both sides.

4) Practice: It took a lot of trial and error to get good at small talk. It's going to be stilted and weird at first, but when it starts clicking it's awesome.

Bonus: Receptionists, maintenance people, and other 'para-professionals' in your building are often invisible, hear a lot of office politics, and are generally fun, down-to-earth people. If you become friendly with them, they generally keep you informed of office gossip outside of channels that are actually competing with you. And they're a lot of fun to go to sporting events with (Shoutout to Tony the Custodian!).

[+] thisisit|7 years ago|reply
I was in your place and slowly getting better where people actually say that they like interacting and talking with me. What really helped?

1. Meditation and specific one at that called - metta meditation. Most of the time issues lies with the fact that we as introverts feel unfulfilled and think something is wrong with us.

But, there is nothing wrong with us. This meditation helps with that and makes you realize that you are fine as they way you are.

2. Tiny habits:

One of the biggest problem for me was that I would wake up one day and barrel ahead trying to be another person. But the problem is you cannot change in a day. So, you try and try and eventually give up.

Then I read about BJ Fogg's research: https://www.tinyhabits.com/

And I took another route to thins. I wake up every day and take one thing and only one thing I want to do.

Let's say "small talk". Then I think of a person I can try this on. So, I set an intention to "small talk" once I meet this person. And because I am aware of this intention I tend to see how they react. Most of the time it's pleasant surprise which makes me feel good and helps reinforce the habit.

3. The mandatory book:

https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnet...

It has lots of techniques. So, take it slow. It can take sometime before you see the changes.

[+] petersonh|7 years ago|reply
I was in the same boat a few years ago, did this class in improv at Second City specially chartered to socially anxious people and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made:

https://trainingcentre.secondcity.com/s/sc-class-category/a2...

Hopefully they have it in your city, or a similar resource, what was nice was that everyone was there for the same reason. The first class was very difficult, but it became easier and a lot of fun by the end. Hope that helps!

[+] zer00eyz|7 years ago|reply
There is a lot to unpack here.

Honestly you have a work problem that is less personal and more process (or lack there of).

The key to cracking the poor specs is to return specs to the people making the requests. Learn to do quick and dirty Wireframes and storyboards. It is faster to draw a bunch of boxes and say "If I build this, is it going to do what you want". The first few times you wireframe it is going to take you a LONG time to get a product out - but if you do them for EVERYTHING your quickly going to get fast at the process. There are tons of tools to help you with this process so dont be shy about finding one that works for you and dont be afraid to go to pen and paper.

When your giving these to someone to walk through PRINT THEM OUT - people take paper an order of magnitude more seriously than an email attachment.

As for your anxiety - take public speaking - learn to give speeches, learn to tell a story that holds attention. It is a skill and you have to master it like every other one. You might not ever get to the point of being comfortable but you might be more willing to endure that discomfort if you know that you can be effective.

[+] jupiter90000|7 years ago|reply
Take it or leave it: I'd say learn more about yourself, how the "extroverted is good, introverted is bad" culture came about, and how to work with your strengths. One book I'd recommend if you want to start exploring this more is "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts...