Ask HN: How to cope with job hunting and depression?

[throwaway128932]

I've got 9 years of experience in tech, mostly as an engineer in high profile startups and some big companies.

I'm increasingly finding it harder to get any interest from employers, it seems like they all have better, younger, candidates.

Every new rejection brings me deeper into depression, to the point where I'm about to be homeless and I don't see a way out anymore without ending my life.

And at the same time, I realise my attitude to interviews has become worse: I'm more nervous, less excited, less happy... because I know it's not likely to lead anywhere.

Is there any hope? I can't afford any kind of therapy or get help anymore. My parents are dead, my friends don't understand or just tell me to keep trying.

[wasi0013]

Utilize your skills that you have gained through your experiences. You don't have to be a full time employee! For example, you can even do freelance works on different platforms. You might not get hand full of money at the beginning but, something is better than nothing right? Another option will be to build a network while working and start consultancy services. Just find the people that needs your help. And, start helping others.

I'm not as experienced as yours (I'm 25 years of old). But, I had suffered from depression as I faced betrayals in my first job at a startup. Then, started from scratch and started focusing on freelance works. I was lucky enough to find some great clients from the globe. One of them even gifted a laptop to me that I'm using to write this comment. Eventually, with the help of my clients me and my wife even started our own startup (still self funded)! Its been almost 1.5 years and counting...

Please, don't quit. You will never know what is waiting for you! Sometimes you won't find a door of opportunity so, all you have to do is build the doors so that opportunities can come to you! I wish you all the very best.

Feel free to get in touch[1], If I can help you in any way. :)

[1] https://wasi0013.com/contact/

[PopeDotNinja]

I'm 44 with fewer years of experience as a developer than yourself. I've been through the job hunting meat grinder a couple times in the last year myself. I've been homeless in the past, too. Here's what I have to say:

- therapy is for people who can afford it; don't get hung up on the fact that you can't afford it, and do what you gotta do to keep going

- leave your personal drama out of the interview, no matter what, because ain't nobody going to want to hire a depressed mopey anybody

- if you suck at interviews, practice interviewing; in my most recent job search, I got a few friends to do mock interviews with me, including explaining why they were asking what they asked

- feel free to reach out to me via email; I was a tech recruiter for several years, and now I'm a senior dev at a company that doesn't suck

[mcv]

> if you suck at interviews, practice interviewing

You know what's also a great way to practice interviewing? Interviewing for jobs you don't want. Just for practice. Because you already don't want the job, the stakes are low for you, so you can relax and just do the interview.

[bigbassroller]

> leave your personal drama out of the interview, no matter what, because ain't nobody going to want to hire a depressed mopey anybody

I would like to second this. I do this by never showing weakness. Always try to provide solutions and when in self doubt, keep mouth shut.

[kalesh]

Great advice. I would add to this -

Better` is quite subjective & varies from situation to situation. People can be better or worse in a lot of attributes when compared to one another.

Being depressed won't help. You really really need to figure out why you're not being selected. Are you asking for too much salary? Applying to the wrong roles? How does your resume look? Have you got some feedback from the interviews that you can work on?

Since your not employed - how do you spend your free time? I would advice working on some side project, open source project, working on your people &communication skills would be good use of the free time.

This ex google guy on youtube talks a lot about software development, engineering, interviews etc. I have found the content quite helpful - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4xKdmAXFh4ACyhpiQ_3qBw

[htanirs]

I can relate to what you are going through. Depression sucks. And not everybody can understand what it feels like.

I was in a situation where depression messed up my career and I had to open up. But what helped me was opening up to people who are not very close. There was no fear of judgement and they were also going out of the way to help out. There were so many who reached out to offer help. While it did not improve my personal situation, it did provide me the hope when I needed it badly. And over time, the situation gets better.

Also when I started looking at my depression as an illness rather than a reflection on myself, it made things slightly better.

Would suggest you to hang in there. Please talk to folks who have reached out in this forum and outside, support groups.

Maybe reaching out to old employers, ex-colleagues, taking up part time or related work might open some doors till you can get things right.

Please know that situations do get better, you have held up so far and give it some more time. When in doubt, think of the days prior to the illness, it will help you to bounce back.

[slap_shot]

As bad at it seems right now, please believe me that situation isn't worth ending your life over.

My email is my profile and I'm happy to talk to at any time, about anything.

I'm a founder and have a pretty extensive network of other founders that are eager to hire good table. I am happy to see if I can refer you to some good companies, or otherwise help you out.

Stay strong. Things will get better.

[amrx431]

Thanks slap_shot for reaching out to someone. Depression is no joke and the suicide that follows it. I too am depressed since past 10 years and everyday is a struggle. I too get super nervous during interviews. Pain in stomach, laboured breathing, excessive sweating and whatnot. Rejections hit me hard as they make me question the entire premise of my professional life. The only reason I have not killed myself is that I education loan to clear(blessing in disguise ?). It makes me happy when people unknown to each other help each other out.

[PopeDotNinja]

Hey @throwaway128932, I re-read your post, and I wanted reply again with a softer tone. The short answer is yes, there is hope.

One of the things that really helped me when I was homeless was accepting the fact the no one really understood what I was going through. The reason that helped is because I was putting a crap ton of energy into looking for solutions outside of myself instead of doing what I could to help myself. I was very much like a drowning person yelling for a life preserver while forgetting to to what I could to stay afloat. Nobody gonna tread water for me. I didn't like coming to understand that, but it did help.

If you happen to be in the SF area, and you really do end up needing a place to stay, look me up. I have an air mattress you can crash on for a couple weeks.

[pr07ecH70r]

NEVER GIVE UP! I will not go into how precious life is, although it really is!

I am in your situation as well for almost over an year now. Been through 2 severe panic attacks and 2 times at the ER. Nothing helps more than hope and doing something (Don`t drinkg though!)

There was a time I was applying for jobs as a Job... 9 to 5. Drinking heavily beer and coffee. My wife left and I fucked up so much more than the stupid concept of a "job". I didn`t give up... I set down and drew a line... than set priorities and Goals. I started looking less into Job openings, started working out (not in the gym, nature is the cheapest gym - running, hiking etc.) Than when in a month or two when my mind and organism cleared from the "fog" innovative ideas started to come. In another half an year (a bit financial help here from parents and friends) and after some reading, I started my own Business.

In another 1 year, found the most amazing woman...

What I am trying to say is that EVEN when you can`t see any light, it doesn`t mean there is none! You are in a "storm" right now, and as every storm it will pass! Sometimes the only but vital effort one Needs to do is to Keep it all togehter! Don`t give up, and try to twist your mind into a positive loop by Setting small Goals and making small steps. You will get there!

[mcv]

Rejection sucks for anyone, but I can see how it's worse when you suffer from depression. It's a kind of negative feedback that you really don't need.

The first important thing to realise is that depression is a disease; it's not you, it's a disease messing with your brain chemistry. It's a disease that makes good things feel pointless while making bad things, like rejection from a job interview, feel even worse than usual.

I can't cure your depression for you (but do talk to a shrink or at least a support group), but I do know how to make job interviews less stressful: have job interviews when you don't really need a new job.

That's not very useful for you now, when you really do need a new job, but bear with me: maybe you can find a different job, less ambitious, lower pay, not quite the kind of work you want, but something that will help pay the bills. A job at a place you like, where you like the people, preferably. A job that makes you feel happy and appreciated is more important than a job that pays well.

Then, when you have that job, look for a better job from the comfort of that job. That's hard, because you already have a job and don't really need another one right now, so why would you go to those horrible job interviews anyway? Because the stakes are lower. When you already have a job, there's no penalty for fucking up a job interview, and at the same time, you'll be more relaxed and less stressed, and because you need it less, you'll actually do better in the interview. And even if they want to hire you, you can reject them. Hold out until you find a job you want. But first, just get any job. Take a step back in your career, a big step if need be, flip burgers if that's what it takes, just to get in a position from which you can take a step forward again.

It's deeply unfair that finding a job is easier when you already have one, and harder when you don't have one. The human mind is weird that way, but you already have some hands-on experience on how weird the human mind can be. Use that experience to your advantage.

[mboekhoff]

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this.

I can't say I've ever been in your shoes, but I've had experiences with depression, particularly in those around me. Suicide, or any form of self-harm for that matter, is never the answer. There is a way out of this without hurting yourself.

There is always a demand for experienced software engineers such as yourself. If you live in the UK, I'd be more than happy to set you up with some people I know.

That being said, if you would like a chat about anything, anything whatsoever, I'd be happy to. I put my email on my profile so you can hit me up there.

[mgkimsal]

> I'm increasingly finding it harder to get any interest from employers, it seems like they all have better, younger, candidates

Ageism might be part of it, and there's not much you can do about it with those companies (assuming that's a factor). As someone north of 40, yeah, some aspects of this aren't all that fun, because it does seem like there's always someone younger and 'better'. My cynicism has grown greatly, though, and I realize that I'm generally going to have jobs cleaning up after most of these "younger better" folks once they move on to the next shiny thing. I'm not saying I want to be code cleaning forever, but, looking at the market, there will likely always be demand for that, and you can't be all that good at it without experience, which you've got (and will get more of).

re: friends - well, if you want a job, you do have to keep trying, but you may do better changing how you're working.

do not end your life. sounds a bit harsh when I say it like that, but... give it more time, and come up with some plans - multiple plans - to try to get past this. therapy and medication may be in your future, but it sounds like anything paid may be out of reach at this precise moment(?)

I've been in your shoes - many of us have. Mental health issues in the tech community are only just starting to be recognized and addressed. If you'd like to talk (phone/email/whatever), please contact me at https://kims.al. I can ... just listen if you want, or give some feedback, or perhaps help on some practical things (resume review, etc). Your call.

[chad_strategic]

Lots of good advice here. I have been down this road as well...

It totally sucks.

I'm not saying that exercise is the only solution, but it should be considered. I love weightlifting, riding in my bicycle on the trails in Colorado while listening to books, swimming and sometimes jogging. There was recent study I heard on NPR, that team sports (soccer & basketball) can ward off depression, because they are exercise combined with social interaction. Sometimes it can be a good networking place as well.

I know when I playing basketball, my mind is focused on one thing and one thing only. Chasing that basketball and putting it in the hoop, it's nice to think about only one thing.

[strikelaserclaw]

Where are you at right now? Depending on your location, they might not value "young" talent as much (which seems to only be a SV thing). I've worked in the east coast and Texas and there are plenty of jobs for more experienced people. But on a personal note, the harder you work to overcome your circumstances, the stronger you will become in the future, you will become more resilient to failure, you will have better coping strategies due, and you will definitely be better at not stressing over things you can't help in life. Think of this period as training to become that guy.

[ramphastidae]

I'm really sorry to hear, but the advice to just keep trying is accurate.

I have had a very successful on-paper career (worked in finance, then dev at FAANG, then co-founder with exit) and have been looking for my next role for over six months. I thought it would be a breeze and I've got rejection after rejection — even for low-level roles I am easily qualified for.

You may be being rejected for reasons out of your control — the recruiter may be biased, your salary requirements may be too high, the company may prefer less qualified candidates they can 'mold' (e.g. over-promise and underpay).

What I found is that no matter your resume, connections are everything. Have you reached out to as many former co-workers for referrals as possible? Basically all of my applications that haven't been referrals have been outright rejections or silence, and all of them with referrals have gotten me at least a recruiter phone call.

Have you lowered your standards a bit? I had to. Maybe you won't work at a FAANG or even a big startup, but that's OK. Expand your options to 'boring' mid-level companies, smaller startups, anywhere you can get a referral.

NEVER NEVER NEVER discuss personal drama or problems at the interview. It's not fair at all but your interviewers just don't care and will only see it a huge red flag. Make something up if you need to. You wanted to take some time off to travel. A family member got sick and you needed to take care of them. You wanted to try to launch some personal projects.

Make sure your application volume is high (50+ applications) and don't stop applying to new roles even if you start making progress. I've made it to a lot of second or even final rounds for jobs that I was sure were going to work out and they didn't.

Make sure you are taking care of yourself — get good sleep, shower every day, eat properly, no drugs, and go outside and walk around and get some exercise. Dress decently. This WILL help you feel better and make a better impression on others. These are seemingly subtle changes but people DEFINITELY notice when someone is sloppy vs. well put-together.

Good luck, you are not alone. Just take it one day at a time.

[dontgiveup]

Work on a side project to demonstrate your skills over other candidates. If you have 9 years of experience, you should be schooling them in terms of knowledge, and the best way to do this is a side project. When companies reject you, its nothing personal, you need to find a way to stand out from the rest of the pack.

Side projects are a great way to reaffirm your self worth. People that only climb the career ladder can't build a project from ground up. Its only those that hone their skills that do. As an added benefit, it might even become a real business. Keep yourself busy.

[daleco]

Stay strong, you have the will. Please seek help if you keep having these thoughts. You should be able to find free help on that matter.

Practicing sport keeps my mind focused and the negative thoughts away. I find it a great free anti depressant.

I subscribed to Indeed Prime, they offer free coaching (resume help, mock interviews...). With your background, you should be selected.

Have you got feedbacks from employers?

Did you apply to unemployment? Can you take a side job in the meantime (e.g. Uber)?

Don’t overload yourself and do a little everyday.

[gaze]

I'm sorry. The tech world is cruel and parts of the culture value youth to a harmful and callous degree. The people who are saying your depression is purely chemical and all that are missing the point that the depression is a reaction to an honest to goodness extremely difficult situation. I can only empathize. Please don't give up. If you're in silicon valley, I can only suggest getting out, since it seems to be the locus of this shittiness.

[jacobyoder]

Wow - you're getting rejection letters/emails? You're doing much better than I've been faring. Have reached out to around 25-30 places in the last 2 months - 2 have actually responded with "you're not a fit".

Consider connecting with someone at 7cups - https://www.7cups.com/ - it's free.

[amadk]

For depression, try https://www.7cups.com or https://www.talkspace.com, my therapist on 7cups helped me get through some really tough times. Also their community is amazing. I highly recommend trying them.

As for the job search, it takes a long time to get a new job, the fact that you're getting interviews is a victory of its own, just keep at it. Also if you're having trouble finding a job in a particular city, you could try expanding your search, like in different a city or country. You could also try applying for remote jobs, those are becoming increasingly popular and also pay quite well. Hope that helps, please feel free to dm me @amadkn on twitter if you want to talk. No one should deal with depression alone.

[aregsarkissian]

Try to focus on one specific technology that is popular in enterprise software and become an expert at it. Take one to three months if possible and just focus on that one thing. I'll use the example of front end development with Angular. Watch a bunch of youtube videos on it and read the docs. Set up a free github account and set up a free github pages blog and do deep dive blog posts on angular topics as you learn and also build demo apps that demonstrate your mastery of specific angular best practices. Put that stuff on your resume and present yourself as an expert on the topic. Side opportunities may open up as well. As an example see how this guy has set himself up as a django expert: wsvincent.com

[ablekh]

Hope is definitely there. As long as we are alive, there is hope. Please hang in there. As many people here, I as well can relate to many aspects of what you are currently going though. I'm sending you some positive energy and can share one practical advice - consider attending your local tech meetups (find them here: https://www.meetup.com). There is a very good chance that conversations with people there will open you to various and unexpected (in a good way) career opportunities. But first (or in parallel with meetups) try to reach out to people here who offered you some networking help (myself included). Best wishes!