Ask HN: Anyone making 200k as a software engineer outside the US?

[ilcavallo]

Best salaries I have seen in Switzerland/London are around 140K CHF or £120k as permanent or 650-700 per day as contractor. That is around 155k USD permie and roughly the same considering 10 months employment as contractor. This is a quite rare and top salary in both market but seems a fairly common salary in Bay Area/NYC. Never seen anything above that here in Europe.

Also the big bonus/shares culture is not as prevalent in Europe.

Anyone here making more than that or knows anyone that does?

[dusted]

Earning around 75000 usd/year as a software dev in Denmark. Very relaxed work, fun days, flexible time, no education, paid house and car in cash, never loaned, still got more money into my account each month than I know what to do with, it just accumulates, live a very comfortable life, never looks at prices when shopping, never in need of anything. Profoundly confused why one would focus on obtaining such excessive salary.

[scalesolved]

So obviously this is from a lightning fast google but I saw figures putting m2 of property prices away from the center of cities being $3.4k. That combined with what a 50% tax rate makes me surprised you paid a house and car off in cash unless the house is small (perhaps you don't have dependents too?) and you've been at that earning rate for a long time?

I'm not disputing, I'm impressed and being debt free is an amazing luxury to have!

[allendoerfer]

It gives you the freedom to do what you want. If you had unlimited amounts of money, would you still work at your current job, or would you do something else?

[whttheuuu]

Unless you want to work for the rest of your life, you either earn more now, or keep earning for a longer period.

It's about achieving freedom

[Foobar8568]

As contractor you should be easily reach 900 -1000chf a day, especially in Zürich area. 650-700 a day is more or less what you can get in Paris but in euro without too much a problem.

Moreover, I have seen eastern Europe nearshore at these rates. I believe that outside of finance and middle management you'll have a hard time to breach 150kCHF.

Myself, I don't have much skills, basically no degree, French side of Switzerland in an easy going consultancy firm and earning 120k I think I could get 130 but not much more than this without freelancing...

As long as I can see myself sitting on the bench 2-3months without being fired, I don't see a point ot leave.

[scawf]

700€ in Paris as a contractor is possible, but it's equivalent to about 400€ as an employee..

[weishigoname]

Come to Shenzhen, you will see, salaries like Tencent, alibaba, can offer are much higher than SV, in the conditions of you should be expertise in some technical area, and good background, like google, facebook, etc working experience. what they offer can be at least double companies, like google, facebook, can offer in the same technical level.

[yughurt]

You're also working twice the hours, no thanks. 996? No one is actually productive when you're working for that long.

[robbyt]

As an American without any foreign language skills... How do I find a job there?

[shakkhar]

Why does it matter though? The absolute number without taking cost-of-living into account doesn't really mean anything.

[dionyziz]

It does mean something. I'll make two indicative points.

First, if I'm looking to make money that I want to put into global investment, it doesn't matter where I earn it. The absolute number is what matters. In reality, the number that matters is how much I can save, in absolute numbers, after taxes and cost of living have been deducted, but still the salary does not scale with cost of living. In that case, if I'm willing to maximize my investment, it's possible that I'm willing to move to the best paying country (i.e. the country where I can earn the maximum absolute number after taxes and cost-of-living has been deducted) for a while. "Global investment" may be quite broad and may include, for example, effective global altruism (i.e., asking the question "If I want to maximize my life's impact in improving others' lives, where should I work and where should I donate globally?").

Second, if we're talking about a job that is a seller's market, i.e., where I have has some very specialized skill, then the fact that the company is willing to pay double the amount if I happen to live in Silicon Valley but only half the amount if I happen to live in Romania, is pretentious. The reason is that the company is in need of my skill regardless of where I live and my acceptable business cost to them is a Silicon Valley salary. The difference from paying me less just because I happen to live in Romania is simply money that goes into their pockets. Why shouldn't it go into mine? In fact, if my skill is specialized enough, I should be able to negotiate for that, since their best next alternative may be a Silicon Valley hire.

(For clarity, the above are illustrative examples. I'm not an effective altruist, do not have such a specialized skill, and do not live in Romania.)

[betaby]

Once you include "luxury" consumption countries with "low" COL stop being low COL. For example cars, iphones, laptops are way more expensive in Eastern Europe than US.

[cimmanom]

CoL in London is comparable to or greater than that in NYC, and probably not quite at SV levels but close enough for comparisons to be meaningful.

[s3nnyy]

In Zurich you can make 800 CHF - 1000 CHF per day as a contractor.

Senior full time employees usually earn 120-130k CHF. Taxes are lower than anywhere in the US on top of this.

Ping me at [email protected] if you want to work in Switzerland and hold a EU-28 citizenship. (Otherwise work visa is impossible.) I run a local recruitment consultancy.

[dilyevsky]

Google Zurich was handing out higher offers than head office until at least a few years ago and maybe still does.

[tdhoot]

Only if you don't count stock.

[bartimus]

It seems many European companies are still stuck in the traditional line-management model where development is considered the executionary role of ideas thought up by people with no engineering background.

This is further strengthened by our educational system which promises "sexy jobs" in the tech sector that don't require a technical background.

We also don't have places like hacker news which has a friendly healthy unionizing effect.

I believe this is the primary cause we're not seeing such high salaries in Europe. I think it's also the reason we're not seeing as much innovation happening in Europe.

[salarythrow250]

I have colleagues that work in the UK office of my US headquartered employer that are making £200k+ ($260k+) having worked there for ~10 years.

[yughurt]

My Dad makes more than that in Australia. He is a software scientist though, he makes prototype physics simulation software. I think he's underpaid when considering the amount of value he creates (in 5 months made a better version of one simulation technology than a team of about a dozen working in it for 3-4 yesterday) but then again my dad doesn't care much for money. He likes working on interesting problems.

[NamTaf]

It's worth noting that AUD$1 = USD$0.71, and that the cost of living here is substantially higher than most of the US (though the Valley is probably much more even-run). Having said that, AUD$200k is certainly not unheard of as you get on in experience.

I agree that if you were a specialist consultant and found an exploitable niche, you could pull USD$200k equivalent here.

[And1]

In Montreal, we have a large contracting scene for banking and near-shore consulting in general. For a contractor with ~10 years of experience, it's pretty common to see 175k as a contract worker, with contracts renewed yearly (if you decide not to move somewhere else).

In the last 5 years SV companies have started to open offices in Montreal (google has been here for a while, fb came semi recently), and that sweet sweet USD + venture funding gives them a real edge in what they can pay people. FTEs with a US base can make 150k+ which is quite a jump above Canada based firms. From what I've seen those tend to be around 100k for someone with ~10 years experience, and anything higher is considered quite good.

[swat535]

This hasn't really been my experience dealing with SV companies in Montreal.. They adjust the salary based on COL so your chances of making a USD equivalent is fairly low

[Annatar]

Yes. Have to be a contractor with 20 - 30 years of serious experience under your belt and well, very well connected. And with very rare exceptions (like being the next Bryan Cantrill) you have to be Swiss else you better be speaking the language near native level and be integrated into the society to pull that kind of dough in. Then, you can get a daily rate of 1120 to 1450 CHF. But we're talking being a super nice and competent person that everyone who's ever worked with you before would gladly do so again. That's the only way to get your foot in the door.

[666lumberjack]

You can do >200k USD TC at a FAAMG in London as a senior if you have multiple offers and negotiate. It's fairly rare, and you'll still be earning below what you'd get in the US, but it does happen.

[zius]

I make 100K$/year with bonus and holiday allowance in Amsterdam as an medior engineer at a medium-sized company. I pay roughly 50% tax. Expats here pay 30% tax for the first 5 years, so their take-home pay is significantly higher. A senior engineer at the same company earns roughly 130-160k.

Senior engineers here that work remotely for US companies can earn upward of 250k USD, but I know very few that do - and you need to enjoy remote work. Other option would be working at a bank or insurance company.

[shifto]

Are you willing to share the company? I worked in AMS for a few years at various software companies but almost never saw these kind of pays.

[wimgz]

US is very different than Europe, because you pay from your own pocket for a lot of things (eg healthcare) that are state sponsored elsewhere. Also factor rent in NYC/SV

[s_y_n_t_a_x]

Employers in the US provide healthcare if you work full-time. You may pay a premium, but it's probably similar to the taxes you paying EU, if not lower.

[lkadr]

If you don't pay for it from your own pocket, you pay for it in taxes.

[walrus01]

It's not absolutely impossible in Toronto, but that's at the very top end of the scale.

[betaby]

At that point Toronto makes no sense - it's pointlessly expensive for the salaries offered there.

[cmer]

Assuming 200k meant 200k USD (~270k CAD), this would definitely be the 0.1% end of the spectrum in Toronto, in my experience.

I've personally never seen it. Not saying it doesn't exist, but that'd be extremely rare.

[Topgamer7]

Yeah, this would be the top 1% in Toronto from my research. You'd have an even harder time achieving this over here in Vancouver.

[throwaway5906]

Great city but salaries are too low given the cost of living. I've pretty much priced myself out of the market there.

[mrath]

It is not very common, but many of my friends are close to 200K AUD(not USD) some are above 200K in Sydney. This is not in well known tech companies, but mostly in finance. If you are contracting, 200K or more is very common in Sydney, Australia.

[tiew9Vii]

Any details on where to find these jobs?

I’m pulling in 150k (AUD) +super, 10+ years in Java, web, streaming data, functional programming, Scala some Haskell, cloud, devops etc.

Looking at the common job listings I’m seeing 120-140k for full-time perm. I work for a niche specialised consultancy that bills me out at $1500-2000 per day doing Kafka work for some tier one companies but I’ve not seen any publicly advertised jobs in that salary range advertised. Saying that some of the tier ones in Australia I’d also not want to work for as a perm after spending a few months at them, some are very archaic/disfunctional, so far it’s been 50/50 on good vs bad contracts.

[xs83]

In Melbourne it is rare to see anything $140k+ if you are not in leadership role (Senior Developer / Tech Lead etc). Contractors obviously demand higher rates and $200k+ is realistic for a decent developer.

[turingbook]

Top level software engineers(5%-10%) in top level China Internet companies (BAT and TMD).

[indemnity]

In New Zealand, it’s possible only if you are a contractor, permanent IC roles generally don’t pay that well.

I’m at the upper end of IC pay scale and I’m on 200-220k NZD, depending on how bonus shakes out.

This is roughly 130-140k USD.

[airbreather]

Contract/consulting engineer (as in in real engineering of kind like electrical, control systems, rotating equipment etc) easily makes a lot more than that in Perth Australia, but you also pay a bucketload of tax and have very high costs for the location.

Also contractors are paid by the hour, so rarely sick (usually an amputation is required to not attend), always do overtime and hardly ever take holidays unless forced...

[ptidhomme]

May I ask how many years of experience are related to these kind of salaries ? (If there's a relashionship anyway).