Ask HN: Is it possible to move to another country when over 40?

[throwawayT]

I've worked in the US for a while now, there doesn't seem to be any chance of me getting a green card or citizenship anytime soon. While I love the country, I am wary of the current political climate and also the heavy restrictions on my visa.

I would like to move to a different country, but I am 41 now. Is it realistically possible to move to another country? If yes, which ones would you recommend? I have less than 2 years to get ready, before my current work permit runs out.

To clarify : I am not super smart like many of the HN folks here and I don't have any money to invest. I am just a normal dev, who likes to build interesting and useful things and I am a pretty good worker.

Any advice?

[arethuza]

I'm a strong supporter of the Scottish Government line on immigration:

Migration is crucial to the development of Scotland as an inclusive, fair, prosperous, innovative country ready and willing to embrace the future. It is essential to our economic prospects and our demographic sustainability that Scotland continues to attract the level and nature of migration it needs. Migration is not just about economic prosperity. It has helped to shape Scotland – just as people born in Scotland have helped to shape nations across the world so people migrating to Scotland have shaped and changed our own country. People from overseas who come to Scotland to live, to study or work, or to raise their families are our friends and neighbours. They strengthen our society and we welcome them.

I can, of course, also recommend Edinburgh - surely one of the worlds great wee cities: "But Edinburgh is a mad god's dream"

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hilarywardle/edinburgh-is-the-best

The rest of Scotland is mostly pretty nice as well ;-)

[alistairSH]

That's a nice statement, and I agree that Scotland is a lovely country, but is immigration feasible for a random white collar person? What's actually required to gain residency (and is it permanent)? Is there a path to citizenship? And with Brexit looming, will this all change in a few years?

[dmix]

> It is essential to our economic prospects and our demographic sustainability that Scotland continues to attract the level and nature of migration it needs.

That’s the policy of pretty much every western nation. Which they’ve all benefited from greatly.

[cletus]

So there are a lot of factors that go into this. First, let's consider earning potential:

- What is your earning potential in the US?

- What is your earning potential in [other country]?

- How many years on your current immigration status can you remain in the US?

Context: I'm Australian. I now live and work in the US because the earning potential for a software engineer here is 5x what it is in Australia. As long as you're spending less than you earn you can pack many years of saving into the US in a short period of time so it's worth considering a longer stay even if it is still temporary.

Citizenship:

- What is your current country or countries of citizenship?

- Is your plan to become a citizen of [other country]?

- Do you want to retain your existing citizenship(s)?

- What is your time frame for wanting to gain citizenship?

Some examples:

- You can get Irish citizenship in 4-5 years (IIRC) and can retain your existing citizenship

- Austrian, German and Dutch citizenship (again, IIRC) require you to renounce your existing citizenship to become a citizenship (there are exceptions).

- If your goal is to get EU citizenship because that comes with a lot of benefits like being able to live and work in 27 (or 26 after Brexit) countries.

These are the options I would consider and the reasons why:

1. Ireland. EU citizenship in a relatively short period of time. English-speaking, developed economy and employment opportunities. Also, the country is relatively welcoming to immigration.

2. Canada. This can effectively prolong your stay in the US forever. After gaining Canadian citizenship you can essentially work forever in the US on TN visas.

3. Australia. Relatively easy to get immigration status as a software engineer with a college degree who speaks, reads and writes English (there's a point system). I believe the time frames are relatively short and this too will open up the ability to work in the US via the E3 visa.

There are other factors that come into play too like family situations, long term plans, where you plan to retire, etc.

[joelbluminator]

P.S I would add the U.K to the list, especially London. Might feel a bit less "claustrophobic" than Ireland.

[joelbluminator]

That's interesting, is it really so easy for a Canadian programmer to get a job in the U.S on a TN visa? Would imagine uncle Trump would put a stop to that by now :)

[diveanon]

Definitely doable, where you are originally from plays a significant role, but many countries will give you a generous visa on entry just for having an American stamp in your passport.

I currently live in Malaysia, they give a 90 day visa on entry and are pretty lenient on reentry as long as you respect the terms of your visa. It's an English speaking country that is developing very quickly but still has a low cost of living. It is at least worth a visit.

The more important question is how you plan on supporting yourself in your new home.

[joelbluminator]

Can confirm, he can get a stay and work permit in the Netherlands rather easily as there's a business treaty between the 2 countries (he will need to be registered as some kind of freelancer though, but that's still pretty sweet). But he probably won't even need it, experience from the U.S is valued, he will likely find an employer to sponsor him.

[csomar]

My understanding is that he can't work on that Visa and he'll be doing visa-runs through some border. Potentially being rejected entry at one point.

[unicornfinder]

The fact that you're in the US already on a working visa suggests that you're perhaps far more valuable than you think. I think you'll do just fine.

[joelbluminator]

I agree, it's VERY hard to get the U.S. I couldn't do it. Didn't try that hard but there are so many obstacles I just "settled" for Europe.

[throwawayT]

Not really. I checked with my employer, and they told me it is at least a 10 year wait for GC, for my case. I'd like to start something of my own, but apparently it is not possible and I don't feel like waiting for a decade (for something that is not guaranteed anyway).

I don't think I am special or valuable. I guess I was lucky to come to U.S, but not lucky enough to stay here all my life.

[pcl]

I moved to Norway a little over a year ago, and was 41 at the time. It was pretty straightforward for me, as my employer has an office here in Oslo, so it was just an internal transfer, and they took care of all the paperwork. I'm not all that familiar with the Norwegian immigration restrictions, either generally or for Indian nationals, but it definitely happens. We hire immigrants fairly often, although mostly from EU / EEC countries (Norway is not in the EU, but it participates in many of the economic agreements, so things are probably smoother for EU residents / citizens).

I'm definitely slower at learning the language than I was the last time that I moved abroad, 25 years ago. On the other hand, Norwegians are generally pretty fluent in English, and our office defaults to English, as we are perhaps 10-15% non-Norwegian. But on the other hand, I probably would be learning faster if that were not the case...

Regarding employment within the US: if you have an H-1B visa, bear in mind that it's fairly straightforward to change to a different job with one. I've done a transfer for a new hire at a startup once, and know others who have done so a number of times.

[Symbiote]

> Norway is not in the EU, but it participates in many of the economic agreements, so things are probably smoother for EU residents / citizens

Norway is in the EEA (European Economic Area), which has the same right of freedom of movement as the European Union.

Any EU or EEA citizen can move to any other EU or EEA country, find a job within X months (6 in the case of Norway), or meet the requirement some other way (be a student, be a partner or child of a worker/student, or have enough money) and then stay.

For the ordinary case of an EU/EEA person moving to Norway to start a job, they simply need to register as resident (fill in a short form and show the job contract and their passport) at the local police station.

[throwawayT]

Your visa is tied to your employer, correct? Don't you find that annoying?

[purplezooey]

Dine medarbeidere kan snakke om deg bak ryggen din.

[Yetanfou]

Of course it is. I moved from the Netherlands to Sweden at 37, not that far from your age. Find a country which fits your needs and wants and start exploring the possibilities. Make sure you're able to learn the language of whatever country you plan to move to or you'll have a hard time integrating/assimilating (depending on the country and your preferences), make sure not to end up in an enclave of compatriots and don't undersell yourself. There is plenty of work for developers in most 'western' countries so in that respect you should be OK.

[cblum]

You moved within the EU. That’s far easier than it is for a non-EU citizen (which I assume is OP’s case).

[joelbluminator]

Of course it's possible. You will probably find countries with way more relaxed immigration processes, e.g Germany, Netherlands, Canada, Australia etc. Is it advisable? I really can't tell without knowing you and your situation. I moved to the Netherlands 2 years ago, am 35. Don't think age makes such a big difference in this thing. Did you explore all possibilities in the U.S? I would even consult a lawyer. You are already there, so it makes sense for you to explore all your options before you decide to leave.

[throwawayT]

Could you please talk a bit more about your Holland immigration experience? I will do my homework of course, but it would be good to hear from someone who has done it.

Regarding US - yes, I did explore, it doesn't seem that promising. I still have about 2 years left, so it is possible something might change, but I am not optimistic

[vonkale]

Finland, but you have to have a job here first to get recidecy and after maybe 5 years of working and living here you can apply for citizenship: -https://migri.fi/en/working-in-finland -https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/helsinki-software-developer-jo... -http://www.te-palvelut.fi/te/en/jobseekers/work_finland/inde... -https://migri.fi/en/finnish-citizenship

[champagnepapi]

Anything is possible Are you willing to make it happen? But move to a country with good health-care system.

[duiker101]

Absolutely possible. Your age should not stop you. The only thing is how rooted you are there now, but where there's a will, there's a way. Anyhow, if you really would have to move because of Visa stuff, then it's better not to wait till the last moment.

The main things to consider are possessions and relationships.

- What will you do with your possessions? Move them or sell them? - Do you have family? Will you be moving alone?

As for where, this again, depends. Does your citizenship country offer you to have a pool of countries you can choose from without too many problems (i.e. are you from the EU?) What would be your requirements for moving to the country of your dreams? Could you find someone to sponsor your Visa should you need to?

[throwawayT]

I don't have family or possessions, so it is not an issue.

I am not from EU, and my nationality gives zero advantage, unfortunately - that is why I posted the question in the first place :(

[en4bz]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp

[cameldrv]

Germany has a fairly liberal immigration policy. If you have a college degree that they recognize and earn a reasonable salary you can get a Blue Card which gets you permanent residency after 21 months and citizenship after 6 years if you learn some German. Salaries are significantly less than in the U.S., but the differential has been decreasing in recent years.

[rconti]

Argentina.

I'm not aware of all of the details, but I visited last fall. They basically allow anyone to immigrate. It's technically illegal to overstay your visa, but it's ILLEGAL to discriminate against people for doing so, and it's very easy to get permanent residency even if you do so.

Look into it.

[deagle50]

My parents did it twice in their 40s. I had to help them learn the language and assimilate but it's doable. That said, moving to the US was much easier than to another European country.

[MadWombat]

For what its worth, when my family moved from Russia to US both my parents were 43. I was 19, my brother was 11 and we had a grandmother in her 70s with us. So yes, it is possible.

[StreamBright]

Yes it is possible. Check out Ireland, it has many companies who would hire you. Ageism is not a problem in Europe as much as it is in the US. Germany also a great option.

[bwb]

Totally!

Start applying and researching, there are a number of ways to do it. Have you looked at positions and do you know where you would like to go?

[throwawayT]

I don't have too much preference on where I want to go, I do know where I don't want to go - I don't want to go to countries where my visa is tied to an employer, I also don't want to go to overly religious places (like UAE etc). I prefer English speaking countries, but that is not a deal breaker.

[RappingBoomer]

one of my co-workers (a patent agent) moved from venezuela to america when he was 35 years old and then moved to australia from america when he was about 40...he is now a lawyer, and he never went to law school!

[diminish]

Why not go "remote" work and live wherever(possible) you want?

[throwmex]

You said you have 10 year wait for green card. So you must be either from India or China.

Canada's express entry is the best option for you if you can sacrifice a pay cut. All other countries are turning anti immigrant nowadays. So tread carefully in case of other countries.

IMO, money is not all that important when compared with the high levels of stress, anxiety and uncertainty about the future in US when you are on H1B.

I went that route (express entry) and never looked back and is doing well and settled in Canada without any regrets. The tech scene is getting better in Canada.