I know it's a question that doesn't have an exact answer. But you will help me if you give an average range. I am being interviewed now for a software company located in California and I want to be more informed about this aspect. Thanks!
Check out http://www.glassdoor.com. They have anonymous salaries from current and former employees, along with actual interview questions and reviews. Look up the company name there and see what it says. For example, I looked up DreamWorks in Los Angeles, and there are 10 salaries listed for software engineer, with a range from $74k-$98k. There are 3 salaries listed for senior software engineer with a range from $98k-113k. That is valuable info when negotiating salary, and you get an idea of advancement potential
I had a negotiation completely implode using glassdoor and payscale along with "insider" info on salaries at a company.
But I had naively given a complete salary history when asked early in the process. Since I was currently working for less than I had earned in years (academic/research job), it turned out that their expectation was that I would leave for 3% to 5% over my current base.
They were pretty perplexed when I refused to consider anything less than my previous industry base (which was below an offer I had in hand from other sources and slightly below market rates in my area).
I've just finished interviews at several Web companies in California, specifically San Francisco, so I have a good feel for what people are offering. I can confidently tell you that the going rate is between $80,000 and $100,000 for software engineers who can demonstrate that they will be valuable to the company, regardless of concrete years of experience.
I will make a small suggestion to the OP: if you think the interview went well, try to shoot for something at the higher end or slightly above.
Even if you don't get it, you'll probably still get a good counter-offer, and if you come from an area with a lower cost of living, you may not realize how much you might end up needing that extra $20k a year.
Please do not listen to anyone who even mentions that the average salary is below $80,000, which is completely uninformed and basically an insult to the profession.
But, that is with the federal government. 3 Weeks vacation + holidays & sick leave is nice, but with furloughs I'm beginning to look elsewhere for employment.
I know spacex is hiring, a buddy of mine left for them.
I'll hazard an estimate for Silicon Valley: $60,000 + $3000 per year of experience +/- 20% if you rule/suck. I'd make the same estimate for people in most technical fields. I think it's hard to get more precise than that.
I recently went through a similar process of needing to guess what the range was for a position. However a much more important question to ask is "What do you honestly think you're worth?" I believe you'll get that amount.
If you ask for a lot more than you personally think you're worth during negotiations people will probably read your lack of confidence. If however you ask for more than the employer originally wanted to pay, but express that amount in a confident way then you're much more likely to get it. A good company (ie one you want to work for) isn't going to offer you the job unless they really think you're the one they want, and they wouldn't lose that for a few K, unless they feel like you're full of it.
Most importantly though YOU don't want to work for less than you honestly think you're worth. I once took a small pay cut when I really thought I was worth much more, the job was interesting but I knew there was a timer on how long I'd be there. Be honest with yourself and ask for what you need to feel comfortable with the position.
"What you're worth" is totally dependent on the skills you bring with the needs the company has. Even in something as specialized as web development, there's huge room for variances.
Couple of points...
Soft skills - can I comfortably discuss a range of topics and ideas with people at all levels of an org, including their clients? What is it worth for you as an employer to know you can bring someone in to a meeting who is, not just presentable, but groks what's going on, says the right things, picks up what they need to know, and can act on it?
Domain knowledge - even outside of your core org's focus - can be invaluable when trying to come up with solutions to some problems. If the knowledge is there with the right problems, there's value created. If not, no value.
A friend works at a company which had some security problems based on some poor decisions that were made in the web services APIs. Someone with practical experience - like me - wouldn't have made those decisions. What 'value' do you place on the tens of thousands of dollars in man hours, customer relations issues and lost opportunity cost would you put on bringing someone like me in vs someone else with less experience?
So... "what do you think you're worth?" is very hard to calculate before the fact, because you usually don't have much insight in to the inner working and problems. After you're hired, you can generally expect to be on the COL-raises and mild bonuses - usually computed based on the dept or team's collective efforts. If you can get some form of profit-sharing negotiated, you may be better off, but even that is still subject to the company's overall financial health, and you normally have little positive control over that.
A good company (ie one you want to work for) isn't going to offer you the job unless they really think you're the one they want, and they wouldn't lose that for a few K
Very true...at my current job I didn't even have to negotiate. I didn't provide a salary history, even though they asked. Instead they asked me to give them a reasonable number that was the minimum they could offer where I would accept the position. I picked a number that was 5% over my current salary (though they didn't know that). They gave me that number plus 15%.
It's worth keeping in mind that California is a big place. The difference between the Bay Area and LA/San Diego isn't completely insignificant when it comes to hiring practices and salaries. In my experience, years of experience has more of a bearing on your employment and compensation in the south than it does in the bay where companies are looking for talented people of just about any background, and if anything youth can be something of an advantage when looking for work.
I've done recent contract work in both SV and LA. I would say SV/SF pays 10-15% higher. In addition the work in SV is much more interesting to me and probably other HN types than the work in LA. Within the Bay Area the arc from Berkeley, SF, Palo Alto, San Jose was more interesting than the East Bay/Contra Costa.
I used CraigsList so there may be a SV vs LA bias in the listings.
I think you need to take into consideration the type of industry that the company is going to take you in. A lot (actually most) of the companies would low-ball their prospective employees, as it looks good in their bottom line that they are getting these developers for less paltry sums.
If the company hiring you is already an established firm with a good history in terms of professional's salary, then I would expect that you could go for a range of 100K - 150K. For startups, it could go as less as 50K and for medium sized companies, it should be fair to consider an offer from 60K to 90K.
I am asking about the average range to get a general picture of the market there in the USA. Having that info I will be able to estimate my level according to the market. Now I see that it's quite a low salary if it's about $80'000/year. If I work 8/12 hours per day for that money, then I get about only $30-$40 per hour. Am I right? Thanks.
Wow, I am extremely surprised at the low salaries you guys are speaking of. Is it because of the python language that it is so low? As a java developer at a so-so company in dallas 6 figures is the starting point for someone with 5+ years of experience.
I honestly don't know how someone could make it in an the Bay Area on 100k which is really disappointing because I have been wanting to move there and also have been wanting to make the switch to full time python development.
I suggest you use a site like bestplaces.net and compare what your current salary buys where you currently live to how much you would need just to stay even if you moved to where you are job hunting. If you can't get at at least that much, it's a pay cut. (Cali tends to be pretty pricey compared to most places in the US, so odds are good the cost of living is higher, not lower, than where you currently live.) Then tack on a pay raise and compare to what some folks here have said and blah blah blah. I am acquainted (via internet) with someone who turned down a job in Cali because it would have been a de facto pay cut for him in spite of the juicy-sounding number they named.
i feel like there should be some way to calculate this by looking at regional cost of living and factoring in scarcity of the profession along with some normalized salary range for the job title, because as mentioned, salary diffs b/w sf, sd and la are likely to be significant.
[+] [-] byoung2|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tom_b|15 years ago|reply
But I had naively given a complete salary history when asked early in the process. Since I was currently working for less than I had earned in years (academic/research job), it turned out that their expectation was that I would leave for 3% to 5% over my current base.
They were pretty perplexed when I refused to consider anything less than my previous industry base (which was below an offer I had in hand from other sources and slightly below market rates in my area).
[+] [-] DanielStraight|15 years ago|reply
http://www.indeed.com/salary
http://www.payscale.com/
Most importantly, look for evidence. Don't trust unsupported numbers from people you've never met.
[+] [-] djacobs|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jarin|15 years ago|reply
I will make a small suggestion to the OP: if you think the interview went well, try to shoot for something at the higher end or slightly above.
Even if you don't get it, you'll probably still get a good counter-offer, and if you come from an area with a lower cost of living, you may not realize how much you might end up needing that extra $20k a year.
[+] [-] py777|15 years ago|reply
Please do not listen to anyone who even mentions that the average salary is below $80,000, which is completely uninformed and basically an insult to the profession.
[+] [-] mattdeboard|15 years ago|reply
I think maybe you're basing your statement on a healthy dose of sampling bias.
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gte910h|15 years ago|reply
200k will get you a 2 bedroom 1000sqft 2br-1bth condo facing the biggest park in the city.
If you say 100k, you have to say where. I'd rather make 175k in Atlanta than 250k in SV looking at buying power.
[+] [-] otto|15 years ago|reply
But, that is with the federal government. 3 Weeks vacation + holidays & sick leave is nice, but with furloughs I'm beginning to look elsewhere for employment.
I know spacex is hiring, a buddy of mine left for them.
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pingswept|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marcomonteiro|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Homunculiheaded|15 years ago|reply
If you ask for a lot more than you personally think you're worth during negotiations people will probably read your lack of confidence. If however you ask for more than the employer originally wanted to pay, but express that amount in a confident way then you're much more likely to get it. A good company (ie one you want to work for) isn't going to offer you the job unless they really think you're the one they want, and they wouldn't lose that for a few K, unless they feel like you're full of it.
Most importantly though YOU don't want to work for less than you honestly think you're worth. I once took a small pay cut when I really thought I was worth much more, the job was interesting but I knew there was a timer on how long I'd be there. Be honest with yourself and ask for what you need to feel comfortable with the position.
[+] [-] mgkimsal|15 years ago|reply
Couple of points...
Soft skills - can I comfortably discuss a range of topics and ideas with people at all levels of an org, including their clients? What is it worth for you as an employer to know you can bring someone in to a meeting who is, not just presentable, but groks what's going on, says the right things, picks up what they need to know, and can act on it?
Domain knowledge - even outside of your core org's focus - can be invaluable when trying to come up with solutions to some problems. If the knowledge is there with the right problems, there's value created. If not, no value.
A friend works at a company which had some security problems based on some poor decisions that were made in the web services APIs. Someone with practical experience - like me - wouldn't have made those decisions. What 'value' do you place on the tens of thousands of dollars in man hours, customer relations issues and lost opportunity cost would you put on bringing someone like me in vs someone else with less experience?
So... "what do you think you're worth?" is very hard to calculate before the fact, because you usually don't have much insight in to the inner working and problems. After you're hired, you can generally expect to be on the COL-raises and mild bonuses - usually computed based on the dept or team's collective efforts. If you can get some form of profit-sharing negotiated, you may be better off, but even that is still subject to the company's overall financial health, and you normally have little positive control over that.
[+] [-] byoung2|15 years ago|reply
Very true...at my current job I didn't even have to negotiate. I didn't provide a salary history, even though they asked. Instead they asked me to give them a reasonable number that was the minimum they could offer where I would accept the position. I picked a number that was 5% over my current salary (though they didn't know that). They gave me that number plus 15%.
[+] [-] famousactress|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] russell|15 years ago|reply
I used CraigsList so there may be a SV vs LA bias in the listings.
[+] [-] AngeloAnolin|15 years ago|reply
If the company hiring you is already an established firm with a good history in terms of professional's salary, then I would expect that you could go for a range of 100K - 150K. For startups, it could go as less as 50K and for medium sized companies, it should be fair to consider an offer from 60K to 90K.
[+] [-] marcomonteiro|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ronnix|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cosmorocket|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imechura|15 years ago|reply
I honestly don't know how someone could make it in an the Bay Area on 100k which is really disappointing because I have been wanting to move there and also have been wanting to make the switch to full time python development.
[+] [-] euroclydon|15 years ago|reply
If you're automating a money making process that is scalable, the sky's the limit.
If you're developing from scratch or greatly enhancing a core product, then... A lot.
If you're doing reporting or back-office cost center type of coding, then whatever the market values your skills as a commodity.
[+] [-] Mz|15 years ago|reply
Best of luck.
[+] [-] aschobel|15 years ago|reply
If you are talented you should be able to get $90-100k+.
We are hiring Python developers at Catch.com, feel free to shoot me an email ( [email protected] ).
Here is our PyCon MongoDB talk: https://catch.com/blog/2011/03/pycon-2011-mongodb-pylons-at-...
[+] [-] nsfmc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ChuckN|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] SnoopDougieDoug|15 years ago|reply