Tell HN: My HN app is rejected by Apple for showing Covid-related submissions

[dangwu]

Apple has twice rejected a minor update to my Hacker News app for iOS, Octal [1], for breaking Guideline 5.1.1 - Legal - Privacy - Data Collection and Storage [2]. For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's search functionality, searching for the term "Covid", which obviously contains HN submissions with "Covid" in the titles. For the second rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's main "Top Stories" view, which happened to have a COVID-19-related submission [3] as one of the top stories. Have any other iOS app developers out there encountered this issue with App Store Review?

Apple's rejection notes:

> We found in our review that your app provides services or requires sensitive user information related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Since the COVID-19 pandemic is a public health crisis, services and information related to it are considered to be part of the healthcare industry. In addition, the seller and company names associated with your app are not from a recognized institution, such as a governmental entity, hospital, insurance company, non-governmental organization, or university.

> Per section 5.1.1 (ix) of the App Store Review Guidelines, apps that provide services or collect sensitive user information in highly-regulated fields, such as healthcare, should be submitted by a legal entity that provides these services, and not by an individual developer.

> Next Steps

> To resolve this issue, your app must be published under a seller and company name of a recognized institution. If you have developed this app on behalf of such an institution, please advise your client to add you to the development team of their Apple Developer account. If your client does not yet have an Apple Developer account, they can enroll for one as an organization through the Apple Developer website.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491

[2] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#data-collection-and-storage

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24384308

[stcredzero]

For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's search functionality, searching for the term "Covid", which obviously contains HN submissions with "Covid" in the titles.

So basically, they were asking you to censor with regards to a specific topic?

For the second rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's main "Top Stories" view, which happened to have a COVID-19-related submission [3] as one of the top stories.

So they were asking you to censor/distort the top stories of the HN site?

We need to escalate these shenanigans in the tech media!

EDIT: Who in the independent media covers stuff like this? Snazzy Labs? Louis Rossman would likely rant about this, but his beat is more hardware.

[mrtksn]

More like the reviewer not understanding how HN works and rejecting just to be safe.

If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions.

The nice thing about human powered review process is that you can actually reason with them even if they make mistakes. I am huge believer in the benefits of having humans instead of algos to deal with. People on Youtube have their videos removed or demonetized left and right by algorithms that you can’t really do anything about.

[crististm]

I guess there is a market for walled garden apps and hardware. I'm not in it.

It makes sense that media in its aggregation will probably have a better view of a what a walled garden should provide. But if I were the gardener I would not bend my operations to any third party that happen to have a loud voice when I have a business to run and some private reasons to do it my way.

[Crazyontap]

Sometimes I really wish we devs did to Apple/Google what we did when anti-net neutrality were forced on us to get this: unite and stop making apps and updates for one day to get more public attention to the 30% extortion and such arm twitting by these two companies.

If 10 big companies and thousand of devs joined Epic right now, Apple would be willing to bend a lot more than its current stance.

[extremeMath]

I refuse to develop for Apple, I'm already part of the solution.

[lol636363]

This is one the reason why I am glad I do web development instead of mobile apps.

[tistoon]

Agreed

[perlpimp]

what is literally tortious is that when user refunds they help themselves to 30% and refund it out of your pocket, as if they are not part to publishing your product and quality checks. It is a cartel like practice needs to be stopped.

[n_u_l_l]

From reading the rejection notes, it seems like they misunderstood your app.

You should mail them. Tell them that it is a reader app like Reddit that contains user generated content. If you're resubmitting it for review, also tell them that in the review notes. If they still don't understand your app, ask concrete questions (eg what changes do I have to make in the app store details to be treated as other reader apps like Reddit). Linking to similar apps (in this case HN clients) has also helped me when being rejected.

Based on the rejection notes, they simply misunderstood what the app does and who it is aimed at. Hacker News is not the Apple support and I think you should ask them what to do before asking us.

They have always been helpful when I contacted them. When my apps were rejected, it usually took a simple mail and within a day the app changed back to "Being reviewed", and then "Accepted".

[rebelde]

The way I dealt with something similar is to replace any link with COVID with a message that says "Due to Apple policy, we cannot show this link in the app. Please click here to see this page in Safari, where it is allowed."

[polote]

seriously? and if Apple ask you to give them 1 million dollar you will do it also ?

[sonicrocketman]

I've had this issue before. I run a feed reader called Pine.blog and App Review has rejected me in the past for content in the feeds the test account was set up to follow. These feeds don't originate on my site or service.

I had to schedule a call with app review and almost needed to escalate the call. It seems like App Reviewers aren't familiar with these kinds of apps anymore. They're used to silos where the app developer could simply ban or reject the content. You need to explain to a human that you're not providing a silo. This is a reader app for another community's site.

[Confiks]

FWIW a Dutch blog (often satirical, nonsensical, stupid or any permutation of those) also has gotten its iOS app rejected six times due to their stories about covid, but also due to stories about religion and sexuality. Dutch topic about it here [1], automatic translation here [2].

[1] https://www.geenstijl.nl/5154709/apples-behavior-isnt-new

[2] https://controlc.com/ab9b13f3

[joelhaasnoot]

Can you send them a screenshot of Safari returning Covid results?

[tomovo]

They would probably reject the screenshot too.

[JohnTHaller]

Oh, no no no. Guidelines for thee, not for me.

[gojomo]

If the web browser wasn't grandfathered-in, the Apple & Google App Stores would ban it.

[mrtksn]

Very nice App OP: https://apps.apple.com/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491

Your app should be considered a “reader” app for a web service. Just explain that in your message for the reviewer.

Try explaining what HN is and how links are posted etc.

After all, not everyone is familiar with every website and it is possible that the reviewer who is reviewed your app did not understood HN.

Yes it is frustrating but at least you have a human being that you can reason with.

People in youtube who depend on it for living have their videos removed by an algorithm and have no recourse. I don’t say this in defense of Apple but in defense of human involved review process. I suggest taking advantage of it by being nice and articulate and have the reviewer on your side.

[g42gregory]

I wish the market would begin to shift towards rich-functionality, mobile-optimized, websites on our cellphones, instead of mobile apps. The Apple/Google censorship is just getting too much. If we could use websites on our desktops/laptops, we could use websites on the our cellphones as well. I think this could be done, right?

[dangwu]

Update: I have successfully appealed the rejection for Guideline 5.1.1. However, they decided to immediately reject me for a different guideline - Guideline 4.2.2 - Design - Minimum Functionality.

> We are writing to let you know the appeal results for your app, Octal - Hacker News.

> The App Review Board evaluated your app and determined that the original rejection feedback was not accurate.

> Your app is not currently in violation of 5.1.1.

> However, the following issue was discovered during our evaluation:

> Guideline 4.2.2 - Design - Minimum Functionality

> We noticed that your app only includes links, images, or content aggregated from the Internet with limited or no native iOS functionality. Although this content may be curated from the web specifically for your users, since it does not sufficiently differ from a mobile web browsing experience, it is not appropriate for the App Store.

> We encourage you to review your app concept and work towards creating an app that offers customers an engaging and lasting experience that also meets the App Store’s high expectations for quality and functionality.

> Apple Developer includes a variety of design and development resources. Download iOS templates from Apple UI Design Resources, learn more about crafting intuitive, well-designed apps with the Design Video collection, and review the iOS Human Interface Guidelines for best practices to follow when designing apps for the App Store.

This is my life as an Apple Developer.

[leetrout]

That is so stupid. I bet they didn’t reject Reddit mobile app uploads.

[user5994461]

Google and Apple (and everyone else) have a blanket ban about COVID since the world has been littered with apps and scams trying to profit off the pandemic.

Your app promotes COVID content (among other things) so it gets banned on sight. It's super clear cut, don't do that!

You can try to implement a filter to remove articles with specific keywords (covid, virus, pandemic, etc..). Besides that, don't know if it's good enough to pass requirements for an app (don't think a simple web reader can pass).

Please don't call that censorship. To call this censorship is a disgrace to countries where there is real censorship, people being beheaded for saying anything.

[eeegnu]

A term isn't dictated by its most extreme usage, the case you're describing is authoritarian censorship. Even having to suggest that a filter that removes keywords apple doesn't want their users to see, just may be sufficient for your app to be approved, hints strongly that there is a kind of censorship in place. Arguably not all censorship is even bad, chat filters for obscene words in certain contexts make perfect sense.

[Talyen42]

The reviewer (a lowly employee just trying to follow a process) clearly made a mistake and did not follow Apple's guidelines. Manual review processes have plenty of mistakes, resubmit it.

Most reviewers would not have rejected this, i'm sure.

[dangwu]

I submit it twice and got rejected twice, presumably by 2 different reviewers.

[type0]

>> Since the COVID-19 pandemic is a public health crisis, services and information related to it are considered to be part of the healthcare industry.

How do you become a part of the healthcare industry? Does it have to be FDA approved?

Does Apple recognize healthcare apps from companies located in other countries (non US) or will those not be considered as "recognized institution, such as a governmental entity, hospital, insurance company, non-governmental organization, or university"?

[chiyc]

Do similar restrictions apply to other news apps, aggregators, or social media?

I feel like you should dispute this, but I have no experience with their review process.

[sonicrocketman]

From my conversations with app developers, and my own experience, this is incredibly common for aggregators. App Reviews are either really unfamiliar with the concept or they aren't trained to understand them and how they differ from silos.

[aabbcc1241]

While your application is not accepted by the Apple's app store, I encourage to publish your application as webapp

[liability]

So much for the reform Apple promised. I don't think many people earnestly expected anything to actually change.

[ksec]

Do Google Censor Content on COVID 19?

If not, why are Google Search Apps still on the Apps store [1]?

Do Feed and RSS Reader get rejected as well? Along with New Publishing and Wordpress Reader which may contain COVID 19 information?

And Apple just banned EPIC games for a whole year.

I really dislike this Tim Cook's Apple. Which is in many way much worst than Steve Jobs's Apple.

I think developers needs to gather and start considering actions together.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942

[mola]

Blaming this stuff on cook is silly. Jobs did the same kind of things. Apple is made in the image of Jobs, a control freak.

[sushid]

Can you just submit it again with no additional changes? As an aside, I am a pleased customer and love your app.

[rickyc091]

Definitely done that at times. It really depends on the luck of the draw with the reviewer.

[dangwu]

The changes in the update aren't related to the rejection at all, unfortunately.