Ask HN: How to build empathy?

[break_the_bank]

As an engineer I run cycles of listening, paraphrasing and then solutionizing almost every day. This doesn't translate well in friendships & relationships where the other person just wants someone to listen. At the same time I rate lowly on empathy scoring tests on the internet. Other technical folks here who might have gone through this,

1. How did you develop your listening skill?

2. How to be more empathetic?

Update: Some more questions

1. What common failure modes do you hit in your relationships as a low empathy person?

2. How do you avoid them?

[jtr1]

I think cultivating curiosity about others is integral to building empathy, but it's a lifelong practice. I still find it very easy to project my own experiences onto others - an easy shortcut that drains my interest in them and makes listening hard. After all, if I feel I already know what's important to know about them, why listen?

Where I've found the most personal growth has been in continually re-learning the strangeness of other people's inner worlds. I try to imagine each person I meet inhabits an alternate universe, just as rich and nuanced as I feel my own is. So a healthy spirit of exploration and generosity helps, although it requires treating yourself the same.

A good shorthand I heard a long time ago from someone else on HN: when someone is expressing a problem to you, consider it your job to build a picture of their mental state that you can repeat back to them and have them recognize as their own. Good luck!

[Slow_Hand]

I often think that if I had one supernatural wish to make, I’d like to inhabit the inner-life and sensations of someone else. See, feel, hear, think, intuit, and fear like they do. Not as an observer, but as a first-hand experience. Whether that person is dumb, hyper-intelligent, manic, depressed, or autistic.

As I mature I’m starting to appreciate how very different our inner-experiences can be. Even for something as simple as what we experience when we count silently in our heads: Some people hear a voice counting numbers, some see the numbers without auditory cues, and some feel the counting as pulses in their bodies.

For this reason, I would very much like to inhabit someone else to feel just how divergent those experiences may be.

[throw0101a]

> I think cultivating curiosity about others is integral to building empathy

See the dart game scene in the show Ted Lasso:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ4YSXv6Xkg

[jugjug]

I use two complementing strategies:

- Developing empathy towards myself first, that is, being able to observe feelings that arise within me and then being able to accept these feelings as they are. I have found this to be very relieving. A technique that helped me was meditation; training the mind like a muscle to be able to observe & recognize feelings.

- Turning this outwards to others, the works of Marshall Rosenberg on the NonViolent Communiction (NVC) [1] had a profound impact on my perception of feelings of others. I'm trying to follow the essence of the book, rather than copying the phrases outlined there. I'm seeing more and more that NVC can be applied to business as well as personal relationships [2]

Applying these to your example, it might be interesting to explore what do you _feel_ when the other person just wants you to listen. What is it that you _need_ out of the relationship and what is it that the _other_ side needs [3]?

[1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/71730.Nonviolent_Communi...

[2]: https://marcel.is/contractor-didnt-deliver/

[3]: https://marcel.is/conflict-resolution/

[zo7]

Adding to this, there is a specific kind of meditation you could try called metta (aka loving-kindness) where you focus on cultivating benevolence towards yourself and all things. During a session you follow a similar sequence: first focus on cultivating loving-kindness towards yourself (since this is the base from where empathy grows) then you gradually extend it to people you love out to people who you have difficulty with. If mindfulness is an exercise to train your mind to observe itself, metta trains your mind to observe other minds.

Also second Rosenberg's book. It can come across as condescending if applied too heavily but it's a great analysis on language during conflict.

[earljwagner]

Yes, learning NVC can really help in hearing where the other person is coming from. It's also useful for expressing yourself in a way that's least likely to trigger the other person. All of this takes practice, of course.

I've taught it to over 3000 Google employees as a 20% project over the past 7 years. I've also developed a team of volunteer facilitators who help people practice in weekly workshops. We're happy to talk about the program and answer questions on Clubhouse (currently Sunday afternoons at 1pm PT):

https://www.joinclubhouse.com/club/Compassion-in-Tech

[feydaykyn]

Non violent communication seems so weird at first, and people think I never criticize... In the beginning. After a while, most of the people I work with openly recognize that they don't want to go back to the level of aggressiveness which is the norm in communication.

[cushychicken]

Big fan of nonviolent communication. It's a great framework for telling folks that you feel wronged by their behavior.

[andrei_says_]

Use the nonviolent communication model:

- recognize that anything we do is a strategy to meet one or more universal basic human needs which we do not control (e.g. safety, to matter, contribution, respect, play, sexual expression etc.)

- recognize that how we do things depends on our experience and conditioning. Many of the strategies we have are suboptimal, or harmful, or meet some needs at the expense of others

- acknowledge that we don’t control our condition, and neither do others. Genetic makeup, rest level, conditioning, life experience, trauma, attention level, mind chatter, current thoughts, blood sugar etc. all influence our reactions and our reactions come out of all of these. Free will is a myth - we don’t control our preferences.

- feelings are useful indicators of basic needs being met or not.

- learn to look for needs and the feelings present in the people around you. Start observing them in yourself.

- learn to weave in the needs and feelings when you communicate. NVC language is clunky, the way I teach it is to weave in the essence but stay closer to less formal language.

[ironmagma]

Not everything humans do is based on a need. We are somewhat random as well and have wants that aren’t backed by anything more than the want itself. The essentialism above reminds me of Robert California’s “all life is sex” motto.

[andrei_says_]

A few more points because I’m seeing some confusion in the comments.

I’m speaking of Nonviolent communication the framework. It defines “needs”, “feelings”, “actions/strategies” as more concrete than the fuzzier definition each of us has intuitively.

Here’s the inventory of needs for example: https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory

And a need does not involve a specific person taking a specific action. As in, I can meet my need for play/playfulness by sharing a joke, playing chess online, playing ultimate werewolf with friends etc. one need many strategies.

Also, “empathy” is a process which takes place that the person you hope to give empathy to feels felt by you.

This could be the result of a simple nod, or may need you to reflect their current needs and feelings so they know you have insight in their emotional world and into what’s really important.

It’s a framework focusing attention and exchange on what is universally similar between us and creates harmony and resonance.

Also, it gives up control. You cannot use it to influence behavior.

The “power” of non-violence is connection.

[Pamar]

Are you familiar with the works of Paul Watzlawick? Especially https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89200.Pragmatics_of_Huma... ?

I am asking because your first statement does not seem to adequately explain all the factors which are in play when we communicate.

[herodotus]

Here is one tip: when someone tells you something, even it is a problem they are having, they don't want you propose a solution. What they want is to heard. If they really want you to suggest a solution to their problem, they will ask you directly: "Can you suggest what I should do about this?"

Example: "My manager really demands too much of me!" Good: "I am sorry to hear that." Bad: "Why don't you arrange a 1 on 1 and tell him that his demands are decreasing your productivity, which is obviously against his interests".

Only offer the second comment if you are asked directly!

[casi]

Similar I read a line a year or so ago (can’t remember where) that really stuck with me:

All anyone ever really says is “I love you” or “help me”.

I try remember this whenever I am frustrated with what someone is saying to me. You can’t always help them, and sometimes it’s hard to love them, but you can reframe where they are coming at as being from them not about you, and with that resist arguing and feeling insulted or threatened.

[indigo945]

This is definitely an important thing that more people, especially tech people, should keep in mind. However, this doesn't really apply in all situations, and I actually disagree about the example which you give.

When someone shares a problem with you, you may want to ask yourself two questions to evaluate whether you should give advice: 1. Can you suggest any action that the other person wouldn't already have taken if it were feasible? This isn't necessarily limited to you being a subject matter expert, it also includes situations where personal or interpersonal factors are at play: for example, when the person you're talking to is very shy or reluctant to formulate clear demands, empowering them to talk to their manager can be very beneficial. On the other hand, if they already are a person who feels very comfortable with meetings and social situations, they will likely already have considered the option and decided that it won't help, so you're adding nothing useful. 2. Is the problem at hand highly emotional, or is there something else suggesting that solving it right now is crass? For example, if your coworker told you that the family dog died, she's probably not looking for advice on funeral arrangements.

So, what it comes down to in the end is considering the context. Some people might be very happy to receive advice, and might be very thankful in the long run if you encourage them to talk to their manager about a career step they have been meaning to take. Even then, of course, compassion is never misplaced, and people will always be thankful if you show understanding for how the problem troubles them emotionally as well. If you want to encourage a shy person to have a conversation, you shouldn't pressure them. And so on.

[psychiatrist24]

Is that even true? I seriously can't relate. What is the point of "being heard"? And I don't think people would usually ask directly "can you suggest what I should do about this", they would consider it too demanding and perhaps they don't even know who could help them.

[break_the_bank]

That is good advice though saying "I am sorry to hear that", seems a little shallow.

I think I solutionize cause I care or maybe I just like problem solving. Though coming up with an answer instantly belittles their problem.

[jack_pp]

Would ” That sucks, have you tried doing something about it?” be good? As in, use the socratic method to help them come up with a solution.

[readflaggedcomm]

That may fit professional relationships, but close informal relationships demand more-intimate problem solving. That doesn't always mean suggesting obvious things, but thinking a problem through aloud can help.

Plus, friends don't always know exactly how they can help. Airing laments can collect solutions without having to catalog each others' resources and limitations or trespassing on power structures, like in a workplace.

[johnsmith4739]

(disclaimer?) I teach empathy, and maybe this helps:

1 - most people did not get what is called an "emotional education." What are emotions and how they guide our behaviour? What are habits and how they differ from intentional activities? What motivates human behaviour? What are biases and how they actually help us 98% of the time, etc.

2 - most people are exposed to pseudoscience and outright wrong information - jungian personality types, maslow's pyramid of needs, win-win negotiations, and so many other models only generate confusion and unproductive biases

And to work toward a solution:

1 - read up on psychology, there are many 101s good enough to get you a head start

2 - read on subjects as "active listening," jobs-to-be-done, non-violent communication, and "FBI behavioural change stairway"

And find a practice-buddy. I work pro-bono with a couple of fellow startup founders exactly on this skill, because our day-to-day work forces us most of the time in a problem-solution mentality. It is so much more precious to get and offer understanding, the non-judgemental type, and acceptance, without any intention of change.

Let me know if I can be of service here

[_dps]

I'd be interested in reading suggestions for criticism of Maslow or "win win".

The few criticisms I've found of Maslow seem to be that it's not 100% universal across individuals and cultures. This is true, but I think not much of a criticism of a model that's meant to be a rough guideline to a very complex topic. If Maslow is only 80% valid across all of humanity I think that's a pretty decent model, but if there are deeper criticisms I'd be interested to learn.

Similarly I'm not aware of any criticism of the concept of "win win" which, in my understanding, is just a definition of certain kinds of mutually beneficial situations. So I don't even have a frame for how it could be wrong :) Any reading advice on this subject would also be appreciated.

[mcrittenden]

Can you suggest a good 101?

[yarcob]

What helped me was to start with the assumption that the other person is just as intelligent as myself.

The worst is when you start making suggestions after listening to two sentences. If you assume that the other person is as intelligent as you are, then something you came up with after two minutes of listening is not useful -- they have probably considered this already.

It's different from your job, because at work you probably are a specialist and it's possible you know the solution after two sentences.

But for the problems we face in everyday life it's not so easy -- there usually are no easy solutions, and most people have a similar amount of experience.

[Baeocystin]

There's lots of specific advice posted already, much of which is good. I want to emphasize the seed crystal that ties it all together: try to put yourself in the shoes of the person you're talking to.

That's it. When talking to someone, constantly try to envision what it feels like to be them, to have the point of view(s) that they have, and what is driving them. Not just once or twice, but continuously, throughout the conversation.

Now- this is a lifelong skill. It takes constant practice, and you get better slowly over time. But we as humans are built for this sort of thing. From mirror neurons to brain structures dedicated to facial decoding, we have the innate hardware required to be successfully empathetic. It just takes practice. The hardest/most useful part is learning to understand other people's decision-making systems, which are going to be very different than your own. Withhold snap judgement, and try to find why their system works for them. You will almost inevitably learn something of value from the process.

[tim333]

Slightly off topic but I did some acting classes where that was the method taught - try to put yourself in their shoes, think their thoughts. It was surprising how much the teacher could actually pick up on what you were thinking. Humans have pretty sophisticated abilities there.

[_y5hn]

Avoid immature unempathic communications and behaviours: "Lots of trash answers. All of them in fact!"

Instead:

1) The Golden Rule: Treat others as you'd yourself want to be treated. This is an ever-evolving loop of growth and learning throughout your life. You are never finished!

2) In job, service, family, nearly everywhere, people respond better to you when your behaviour and communications reflect the same shared goal. What might those goals be. As with #1 this is also a life-long quest.

3) As you gain better responses with people or get to know people better, you might consider asking for information, how to do stuff, help or start leading new initiatives.

At the same time, it is important to realize how the responsibility areas work within your organization, and avoid taking on work that you shouldn't take on!

[halfmatthalfcat]

You have to learn how to put yourself into other people's shoes. It sounds simple but it is incredibly difficult. You really have to step outside of your ego and try to view things through another person's eyes.

A key part is understanding who the person is. What experiences they've had. Truly what their life is. Some of this you can extrapolate from where they were born, how they were raised, their heritage, race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, etc. None of these defines an individual though, so you really have to navigate each person and truly want to learn what makes them tick.

Once you learn a person's wants and needs, then you can start to reflect that off of your own experiences and start to live in someone else's shoes.

[ZEFuVQU3WpZz]

It's easy to extrapolate people's motivations and beliefs, aka jump to conclusions, because you think you understand what you're hearing. Instead, take in and verify what they're saying without agreeing or disagreeing. When you say non-judgmentally "I'm hearing that you think/feel/experienced ...", you'll be amazed how often they tell you that you misunderstood. That's totally fine, because they'll correct you, and after a few rounds of that you'll really get where they're coming from and they'll know it, which is what empathy's all about. You don't need or want to take on their feelings and beliefs though, because integrity is an important part of empathy. So a respectful "that's really important to you"-like comment again makes them feel understood without in the least compromising your own principles. Once you and they both are certain you get where they're coming form, then the conversation can move on from there as appropriate.

[twy30]

> How did you develop your listening skill?

By being rational -- the following method works well for me. YMMV.

I reframe this problem as: Always assume the other person's limbic system has been activated; what will it take to calm their limbic system?

I do not have the exact source handy, but IIRC it can take any time from 15 minutes to 4 hours. From experience, I concluded that the only rational moves during that time are:

* Listening (the feeling of company and support)

* Pleasant sensory stimulations, for example:

- Scent: hot tea, fresh fruit

- Touch (only when appropriate): pat on the shoulder/arm, hand-holding, hugs

In contrary, during that time, any move that requires the other person's prefrontal cortex functions (planning, decision-making, abstract thinking, etc.) is almost always a wasted effort. (So don't make this type of irrational moves.)

[Arete314159]

Well....one way to level up quickly is to go through something terrible, especially something you didn't used to think much about before.

I cannot recommend this method, as it usually sucks, but it will often open your heart as well as a side effect.

[mjwhansen]

It says a lot about you that you recognize that this is a skill that you need to work on and is worth working on.

It is completely normal that you see yourself being sympathetic by creating solutions, when people are asking you for empathy.

I'm writing a book aimed at developers on building empathy and applying it to business, called Deploying Empathy [1]. I'm writing it in public as a newsletter. I'm detailing specific actions you can take in conversations and customer interviews to build empathy.

One of the things about listening to people is that the more you do it, the more empathetic you become as a person. It takes practice, but I promise you will get there.

One of my own favorite books on this is Practical Empathy by Indi Young.

Self-empathy is also an important step, and if you find you don't have the tools to show empathy in conversations, there's a good chance this is a skill you weren't taught growing up. For that, therapy is invaluable.

[1] https://www.getrevue.co/profile/mjwhansen

[peterthehacker]

Depending on your personal situation you might want to seek professional help. But here are some ideas to get you started:

Practice making eye contact especially when someone is opening up about their feelings. Then say things that show you know how they feel. Human brains can mirror feelings, like pain, from another humans [0]. So, to empathize with someone you need to get on their level emotionally and really feel how they are feeling.

[0] https://www.ted.com/talks/vilayanur_ramachandran_the_neurons...

[temp0826]

>> Then say things that show you know how they feel.

Take care not to “me too, <personal anecdote>” as it can detract from the person seeking empathy.

[Applejinx]

Even though this reads a bit funny (install empathy.exe, please!) I think it's interesting you're even asking the question. That alone is significant, so you are already becoming more empathetic just by asking. You could easily have not asked at all.

I'm reminded of the 'wag more bark less' bumper stickers. That's a good tip. In being empathetic you're not doing anything specific, still less solving anything. You are projecting 'I'm listening I'm listening I'm here wag wag wag' like the bumper sticker. It stops being about what you're going to do, or what you're expected to do, and it's about telegraphing your willingness to perceive. You're wagging up a storm: you are indicating attention, responsiveness. In a sense it's like active waiting?

Even to ask the question signifies more responsiveness than 'I will make a solution as quickly as possible and then turn my back on you as soon as I can'.

It's also helpful to be honest with yourself about where you're at. I'm fundamentally a rather isolated, selfish person. I direct that towards generous open source software and helping to guide others (when it's convenient) and so I come off, in some contexts, as terribly empathetic.

But part of that is avoiding a selfish-failure-mode: I will make an effort to get as little as possible out of things and to look for what I'm putting into the situation, focus on that. It's focusing on the hacking side rather than the payment, and if I can be strategically generous enough it makes no sense to get mad at me for not giving MORE, and so I can interact on a level that 'reads' as extremely empathetic and kindly.

In fact, I have just managed my situation to where I am not giving more than I can comfortably provide… and since I'm not stressing out about it or gauging whether I'm being given back 'enough', it feels to others like I'm just hanging out being attentive and helpful. I'm just pursuing my own interests, but if you share them it's easy to think that I'm doing mighty nice things 'for you'.

Lack of pressure to get an interactional outcome plays a role, I think.

[captn3m0]

Reading fiction.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/novel-finding-rea...

[mponw]

First, make sure this is really what you want and need.

It helps to be a Jungian personality type that has a strong focus on the feeling cognitive function, i.e. Fi/Fe. If that's not you, then empathy/sympathy will probably not come natural to you.

Also, I have personally found that a very refined culture of giving and receiving empathy is found in the Non-Violent Communication (NVC) "universe" created by Marshall Rosenberg.

[laurent92]

A lot of people implement NVC wrong and it becomes a codeword to divert the results of the discussion to /dev/null. “I’d like that we solve X” => “So I hear X makes you feel really bad, right?” => “Yes exactly, what can we do about it” => “Can you tell me more about X?” and so on. In fact, I have not seen people who talk about NVC and are able to listen to my request (well listen they do, but “act upon” they don’t). It becomes a passive strategy to soothe the other while avoiding what he needs, and yet, still rephrase it perfectly.

To counter that, I use another strategy: Threat. I say “If you keep rephrasing like this, I will pour acid on the roots of a tree until it dies.” And they know I am capable of it.

At least it has the effect of snapping the person into stopping his NVC and actually telling me he/she has no intent on solving the issue which, as an Asperger, is much easier to deal with, because I can quit, deal with it another way - at least the cards are on the table. I can’t stand social games, and NVC became so misused by polite-agressive people that it became a social game.

I feel sorry for the people who invented NVC, it’s certainly not what they built it for.

[softwaredoug]

Work on understanding your own emotions and you’ll be better at empathy. Two things that help me a lot are journaling my feelings and meditating.

[grawprog]

>How did you develop your listening skill?

I'm not sure...I've always enjoyed listening to people's lives. Everybody's life is totally different than mine. Everybody's experiences are different than mine. By listening, I'm exposed to things in the world I would never be otherwise. Both good and bad...but still.

>How to be more empathetic?

It might seem cliché but, put yourself in their shoes. Imagine yourself going through the things they're telling you. Imagine how you'd feel. Not what you'd do to solve the problem, just how it would affect you emotionally as it happened.

>What common failure modes do you hit in your relationships as a low empathy person?

>How do you avoid them?

I don't know when to shut the fuck up. People don't always want to hear solutions, they don't want to hear about what could have been done or anything at all sometimes. Despite best intentions, sometimes the best thing you can do, to put it bluntly, is shut the fuck up. Resist the temptation to give advice or opinions, just listen and acknowledge. That part can be hard though.

[bsrhng]

I think a very important step is acknowledging that the person standing in front of you has the capacity to feel whatever negative or positive emotion that you can feel.

(That is regardless of whether you can quote research to the contrary. That is, statements that some people in some cases given some environment in a given moment or period could not pass some bar that some researcher has set.)

Your goal is to discover the person standing in front of you by allowing yourself to see them as a fully capable and imaginative human.

The other thing is to acknowledge that everyone is at some stage in their life. They have realized some things and others not. You want to know how they see the world and how they interpret what happens to them. Usually here you'll discover that they make some rigid assumptions about the world whenever they are mentioning some issue. And usually that issue has something to do with their relationship with other people or with the way that they view themselves.

Within all this is of course you as the listener. If something is making you uncomfortable in this process you should be very honest with yourself what that is. There are of course cases where people are very deeply entangled in their own world and I don't think in those cases it is beneficial for either of you to participate in the conversation.

To add to the previous point, I think realizing that there is a lot to be learned by allowing people to share the way they think with you. I think you would be surprised by what people are willing to tell you if you allow them and the kind of deep relationships you can form that way. It's also very surprising to realize that most issues that people have beneath a very shallow surface of circumstances are really almost the same. And they mostly have to do with the way that they talk to themselves about what happens to them.