I don't want to go back, I can get my day job done in < 5 hours. I intend to start a couple of fun side businesses and it's easier to do that with no time (and emotional exhaustion) wasted on commuting and sitting at my desk trying to look busy.
Do your tasks in as little time as it takes leaving more room for leisure, this is the first time I'm feeling the benefits of that 'increased productivity per hour'[1] economists talk about.
> I intend to start a couple of for profit side businesses
Not saying this applies to you, but a thing a lot of people are going to find out is how little they actually accomplish with the extra time. It's so much easier (and fun!) to dream about going to the gym, having a garden, and starting a business while stuck in traffic than to actually follow through and do those things.
I wanted to go back to the office up until a few months ago, but then I escaped from lockdown countries and have now actually re-established a proper social life.
The interesting effect of this has been that said social life, which in pre-lockdown days involved many people from work, is now 100% happening with friends from other contexts.
This has made my work relatively less relevant in my life than it used to be: It's no longer a part of my identity, it's no longer a driver for socialisation, it's just a thing I do for some hours during the day. A change in environment has also meant that instead of spending my evenings at tech meetups or pubs I'm instead out scuba diving, working out and so on.
Overall I don't feel like returning to what used to be normal and have pointed this out at work. One response I got was "maybe that feeling is why they want you to come back", but the threshold for where that would've worked on me was crossed months ago.
Firstly, I won't be convinced that we've beaten the pandemic and recovered until we get through a major holiday without a surge. If we make it through January after both Thanksgiving & Christmas/New Year's (with all of the travel and open-for-business states) without a 5th wave (or whatever the next surge is by then), I'll finally start relaxing and think about going back to the office on some sort of schedule.
Until then, we've already shown that (for tech workers) we can work from home. There's no point in going back to the office just to sit at every-other-desk, have limited conference room occupancy, and wear a mask all day.
Many people have challenging home situations and the office is better for them - that's fine, go to the office. But companies shouldn't be requiring a return to the office until we can all return "normally" and safely. Even then, personally I don't want to be in the office 5 days a week. I'd prefer 2 days a week for facetime/meetings/socializing, and 3 days being productive & meeting-free at home.
If you're personally vaccinated it kind of doesn't matter if there's another wave amongst the unvaccinated, no? Plus tech workers probably have a 90% Vax rate.
I may be the malcontent, but I'm tired of being at home. I want to keep the option of being at home, but I miss the community I found at work, I miss the non-work adventures our team had, and frankly, I think the new folks joining our teams are not nearly as integrated into our family as those of that came before the pandemic. I've worked remote for a decade and the option to work remote for 2ish days a week makes life incredible, but beyond that, teams I've been a part of tend to be less cohesive.
Your coworkers are not your family, unless they are literally your family business. Most people don't learn this lesson till the first layoff and they watch those warm and friendly relationships sublimate in an instant.
Me too. I'm more productive at the office, the daily routine helps me get into "work mode". Home is my place to relax, working at home was a dissonance I never quite resolved. I think many people at my company struggled with this, even managers, because they started working at home late. We ended 2020 with our days being a mishmash of personal and work activities 16/7, it was horrible.
If there was another lockdown, I believe we would manage it better, but I'm convinced remote work is not everyone's best scenario.
Things I have avoided over the past year: wearing uncomfortable clothes, being unable to use a restroom because it’s occupied, sweating from the heater, shivering from the AC, being held hostage by coworkers who talk at me about their personal lives and grievances, unpleasant noises, unpleasant smells, being asked trivial questions, the drama of coworkers who can’t behave professionally, ugly decor, uncomfortable seating, traffic, car troubles, parking woes, and unhealthy lunches. I realize these are small problems in the grand scheme of things, but we’ve proven we don’t need to deal with them, so I just won’t from here on out.
Ron Swanson put it best. I don't have coworkers, I have workplace proximity associates. I don't particularly care to be around the people I work with so being at home has probably kept me in this job longer than it would have otherwise. Also they built us a new office building right before they sent us all home and they're taking me out of an office where I can close the door and putting me in an open air cube farm. I always said if I had to work in a cube I would quit. They're looking at us going back in July and that's about the time I hope to have a new job.
I have a few fantastic co-workers that I'd happily spend a day in the office with. Unfortunately, I have a few fantastically terrible co-workers that outweigh the benefits of being with the good ones. I've become incredibly office averse.
Fewer restrictions and less questioning of your use of time and your activities is typical the higher one observes the class ladder. WFH (absent remote monitoring tools, which take it back down below an in-person job without such tools) is like bumping up to the upper-middle, or professional, class, which most programmers are not in, ordinarily, socially speaking.
... and yes, a taste of class privilege is, frankly, wonderful.
I don't want to go back. Commuting is a massive waste of time. Assuming 261 workdays in a year, I will save 783 hours a year. I get over a month of my life back. I can run errands whenever I choose and work whenever is convenient. I can help care for my children. It's a no-brainer for me.
> Assuming 261 workdays in a year, I will save 783 hours a year. I get over a month of my life back.
You can also save days by brushing teeth while pooping.
But on more serious note.
I never liked this kind of an argument/math, its not like you will magically get a 13th month in a year by not commuting.
That said 3hrs commute is crazy, I did it (3.5hrs of total daily commute) as a teen during a summer job.
I leant then that its not worth it. Its draining + expensive. Also it cuts into so much of your time that your quality of life will suffer as you have to choose between recovering your energy levels or social life.
Ever since I have a rule to not consider a job if its too far away.
I sincerely don't, I don't see a reason to waste time and money commuting every day. As is I hate driving, but even with public transit why do I want to waste an hour or an hour 30 per day.
I've been able to save so much money in the last year, for the first time in my life I would be fine for good amount of time if I got fired today. I very much do expect big companies to force workers back in the office, tons of middle managers don't feel like they're being effective if they can't stare at you typing for 8 hours
100% remote was always a goal anyway and my company right now is 100% remote. We don't have an office to return to and we're spread across the country anyway. This was a change, though. Before switching jobs, I worked in a SCIF on classified projects, which can't be done remotely so I had no choice.
For me, it's barely even really a choice. Thanks to spine problems, I can't sit for long, but of course standing all day is too hard on the legs, so practically speaking I took frequent resting breaks and was lucky there were places to lay down, but no work could be accomplished while doing that. Now I can work from bed and actually work. I was also limited because I can't realistically commute by driving myself, so that meant I worked at a place that was near a train station. Also meant I needed to live near a train station.
No longer having those kinds of restrictions on my life is tremendously liberating.
I've been working semi-remotely (at least 1, but often 2+ days per week) for a large majority of my career. I honestly cannot imagine a world where I would actually show up to a cube situation or "open office concept" 5 days/week.
The supply/demand curve for the talents most of us here have simply don't require us to bend to this type of ridiculousness, and the employers that enforce arbitrary location rules under the guise of "better culture" or "collaboration" are going to find themselves lacking engineering talent eventually (or rather immediately after this pandemic has normalized remote work for so many of us who perhaps were not previously accustomed to it).
I don't want to go back to any situation that requires me in the office physically more than maybe once a week/max. Honestly once per 'iteration' is probably _plenty_ sufficient to get some face-time with coworkers and establish those more human bonds. I might be willing to bend a bit if the office is very close to my home, though I am not willing to accept zero remote regardless of the opportunity.
I want to go back. Maybe not for 5 days a week, but probably 3-4 days.
A week ago, I was in the office for the first time in a year. The entire floor with 100+ desks was completely devoid of people, save for one person that I passed by in the hallway. It was not a completely novel sight; I had been to the office on weekends before, for instance to pick up item that I forgot in the drawer the day before.
What I did not expect is how quickly I got nostalgic about the office experience. I'm quite well-adjusted to the home office situation at the moment, but I absolutely don't like the lack of physical separation between home and work. A separate desk is just not enough for me.
Also, working from home as a single is really lonely. At work, I can passively fulfil my social needs (and still block out the noise with headphones if I need to focus). At home, I have the non-choice of "alone with music" and "along without music". I have a colleague whom I hang out with on a Slack call for hours on end just for some of that office vibe, but it's a subpar replacement.
Also, something that's specific to my situation: The office is in the city center, where all kinds of amenities can be reached quickly. My apartment is in the outskirts of the city, so there is not nearly the same density of services and amenities. For example, the office is 10 minutes by foot from a public indoor swimming pool. A few months before the pandemic, I was taking up a habit of going there once a week during lunch break, and that's something that I want to go back to doing.
I'll be getting my first shot this weekend, so I've been starting to think about how to go forward once my immune response has built up enough. I'll probably be one of the first to return to the office on a regular basis. Even if it means having to wear a surgical mask inside the building, I think it'll be psychologically significant to me as a physical step back to a sense of normality.
Pre-pandemic I already had the career goal of a fully remote position. Working remotely for the past year or so has confirmed to me that I prefer working remote. It's going to be disappointing when I have to return to my old office in the coming months, but I plan on keeping my eye open for alternative positions which allow my to forgo the office experience completely.
I might not necessarily want to go back to the office full time (I always had the possibility for part time remote work anyway), but I'm missing my bike ride commute and some off-record discussion with colleagues that are harder to have over Teams.
I'm really enjoying working remotely, and in-fact my company is allowing people to work perm. from home, a hot-desk system where you can book a desk, or if you want to work three or more days a week, you can get a permanent desk.
A couple of friends and I decided it'd be nice to go in once a week to catch up, we all live quite locally (15min cycle for me) so for me it's a nice idea that would work for me.
I will probably never work in an office again. Work from home provides so much more freedom to facilitate my kids schedule and ensure that things around the house are taken care of. The flip side of this though is that now I have almost zero in person communication with people that are not my family. I lost touch with friends many years ago for various reasons so not being able to chat with work people in person essentially kills that important social interaction. Covid has also put a damper on that so now I actually struggle to make conversation in real life. Not really great all things considered.
I don't want to go back on a daily basis, but I would love to go back twice per month or so (to socialize, mainly).
I don't want to go back because:
- I waste time while commuting (~30min. each day)
- I waste time socializing. Not bad, but hey I would prefer to do it at the bar not at the office and not everyday :)
- I waste time trying to focus. You know, open space office
- I don't feel comfortable in "office" clothes. It's not that I wear a suit or anything, but at home I am: barefoot, I don't wear underwear (I wear pants only!)... I hate wearing shoes and/or socks
- I wast time pretending I can work 8h/day. C'mon, it's 2021, no one (at least in my profession, IT) can say that it's possible to work totally focus 8h/day five days per week. That's BS. I can work fully focused 4h/day and call it a day. At home I don't pretend, so I have more time for myself
- I eat better at home. At home: Healthy snacks, plenty of fruit, small meals. At the office: kinda the same, but I don't get to pick which fruits and the like; besides they are gone fast (I do miss not having to pay for them, tho)
It’s human nature to exert the least effort possible to obtain resources. Over time, employees will find more ways to slack from home while looking productive.
Corporations will make decisions based on what maximizes productivity.
I don’t think remote work will persist to the extent people believe.
There are exceptions to the first rule - when an employee is especially motivated. Even then, they’re one bad managerial decision away from checking out.
I’m aware of studies that support boost in productivity over covid, but I believe this is bc there are fewer distracting things to do during covid than normal.
If workers refuse to go back into the office, then the corporations will have no option but to support WFH. I for one would never again work somewhere that didn't offer 100% WFH. It would be the first thing I asked about in a hiring interview.
I have more focussed time; more control of my own life; more time with my kids; less time wasted in meetings and drive-by chats from project managers; no-one glances at the clock if I need to leave early - nor do I feel the need for theater when I have to work until late; I enjoy cooking much more (and can put a stew or the oven on, then get back to work); I've saved incredible amounts of money that were otherwise apparently spent on my day-to-day life in the city-center; I no longer waste an hour each day getting to and from the office; and I've lost lots of weight getting up early in the morning and taking a brisk walk outwards in the forest, listening to birdsong and being aware of the changing seasons, instead of inwards with car exhausts and scooters riding the pavements.
REALLY hoping we're not forced back to the office at my company - along with 75% of the other developers at my place (we did a Slack poll).
What a wonderful summary of the benefits this change has wrought. I feel the same, but haven't maximized the opportunity as much as you have! I might head out to listen to some birds right now...
[+] [-] pcbro141|4 years ago|reply
Do your tasks in as little time as it takes leaving more room for leisure, this is the first time I'm feeling the benefits of that 'increased productivity per hour'[1] economists talk about.
[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/exports/labor-productivit...
[+] [-] tarruda|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulcole|4 years ago|reply
Not saying this applies to you, but a thing a lot of people are going to find out is how little they actually accomplish with the extra time. It's so much easier (and fun!) to dream about going to the gym, having a garden, and starting a business while stuck in traffic than to actually follow through and do those things.
[+] [-] giantg2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tazjin|4 years ago|reply
The interesting effect of this has been that said social life, which in pre-lockdown days involved many people from work, is now 100% happening with friends from other contexts.
This has made my work relatively less relevant in my life than it used to be: It's no longer a part of my identity, it's no longer a driver for socialisation, it's just a thing I do for some hours during the day. A change in environment has also meant that instead of spending my evenings at tech meetups or pubs I'm instead out scuba diving, working out and so on.
Overall I don't feel like returning to what used to be normal and have pointed this out at work. One response I got was "maybe that feeling is why they want you to come back", but the threshold for where that would've worked on me was crossed months ago.
[+] [-] jasonpeacock|4 years ago|reply
Until then, we've already shown that (for tech workers) we can work from home. There's no point in going back to the office just to sit at every-other-desk, have limited conference room occupancy, and wear a mask all day.
Many people have challenging home situations and the office is better for them - that's fine, go to the office. But companies shouldn't be requiring a return to the office until we can all return "normally" and safely. Even then, personally I don't want to be in the office 5 days a week. I'd prefer 2 days a week for facetime/meetings/socializing, and 3 days being productive & meeting-free at home.
[+] [-] cm2012|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aliljet|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dougmwne|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mehlmao|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ASalazarMX|4 years ago|reply
If there was another lockdown, I believe we would manage it better, but I'm convinced remote work is not everyone's best scenario.
[+] [-] Graffur|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thelastinuit|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] havelhovel|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nolite|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thebetatester|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] potta_coffee|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevinherron|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] germs12|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intergalplan|4 years ago|reply
... and yes, a taste of class privilege is, frankly, wonderful.
[+] [-] bitcoinmonger|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] uhhhd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] me_me_me|4 years ago|reply
You can also save days by brushing teeth while pooping.
But on more serious note.
I never liked this kind of an argument/math, its not like you will magically get a 13th month in a year by not commuting.
That said 3hrs commute is crazy, I did it (3.5hrs of total daily commute) as a teen during a summer job. I leant then that its not worth it. Its draining + expensive. Also it cuts into so much of your time that your quality of life will suffer as you have to choose between recovering your energy levels or social life.
Ever since I have a rule to not consider a job if its too far away.
[+] [-] offtop5|4 years ago|reply
I've been able to save so much money in the last year, for the first time in my life I would be fine for good amount of time if I got fired today. I very much do expect big companies to force workers back in the office, tons of middle managers don't feel like they're being effective if they can't stare at you typing for 8 hours
[+] [-] nonameiguess|4 years ago|reply
For me, it's barely even really a choice. Thanks to spine problems, I can't sit for long, but of course standing all day is too hard on the legs, so practically speaking I took frequent resting breaks and was lucky there were places to lay down, but no work could be accomplished while doing that. Now I can work from bed and actually work. I was also limited because I can't realistically commute by driving myself, so that meant I worked at a place that was near a train station. Also meant I needed to live near a train station.
No longer having those kinds of restrictions on my life is tremendously liberating.
[+] [-] nicholasjarnold|4 years ago|reply
The supply/demand curve for the talents most of us here have simply don't require us to bend to this type of ridiculousness, and the employers that enforce arbitrary location rules under the guise of "better culture" or "collaboration" are going to find themselves lacking engineering talent eventually (or rather immediately after this pandemic has normalized remote work for so many of us who perhaps were not previously accustomed to it).
I don't want to go back to any situation that requires me in the office physically more than maybe once a week/max. Honestly once per 'iteration' is probably _plenty_ sufficient to get some face-time with coworkers and establish those more human bonds. I might be willing to bend a bit if the office is very close to my home, though I am not willing to accept zero remote regardless of the opportunity.
[+] [-] majewsky|4 years ago|reply
A week ago, I was in the office for the first time in a year. The entire floor with 100+ desks was completely devoid of people, save for one person that I passed by in the hallway. It was not a completely novel sight; I had been to the office on weekends before, for instance to pick up item that I forgot in the drawer the day before.
What I did not expect is how quickly I got nostalgic about the office experience. I'm quite well-adjusted to the home office situation at the moment, but I absolutely don't like the lack of physical separation between home and work. A separate desk is just not enough for me.
Also, working from home as a single is really lonely. At work, I can passively fulfil my social needs (and still block out the noise with headphones if I need to focus). At home, I have the non-choice of "alone with music" and "along without music". I have a colleague whom I hang out with on a Slack call for hours on end just for some of that office vibe, but it's a subpar replacement.
Also, something that's specific to my situation: The office is in the city center, where all kinds of amenities can be reached quickly. My apartment is in the outskirts of the city, so there is not nearly the same density of services and amenities. For example, the office is 10 minutes by foot from a public indoor swimming pool. A few months before the pandemic, I was taking up a habit of going there once a week during lunch break, and that's something that I want to go back to doing.
I'll be getting my first shot this weekend, so I've been starting to think about how to go forward once my immune response has built up enough. I'll probably be one of the first to return to the office on a regular basis. Even if it means having to wear a surgical mask inside the building, I think it'll be psychologically significant to me as a physical step back to a sense of normality.
[+] [-] fundamental|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Demoneeri|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agent008t|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LinuxBender|4 years ago|reply
[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll
[+] [-] Sayrus|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ob1gman|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Accacin|4 years ago|reply
A couple of friends and I decided it'd be nice to go in once a week to catch up, we all live quite locally (15min cycle for me) so for me it's a nice idea that would work for me.
[+] [-] wonderwonder|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sdevonoes|4 years ago|reply
I don't want to go back because:
- I waste time while commuting (~30min. each day)
- I waste time socializing. Not bad, but hey I would prefer to do it at the bar not at the office and not everyday :)
- I waste time trying to focus. You know, open space office
- I don't feel comfortable in "office" clothes. It's not that I wear a suit or anything, but at home I am: barefoot, I don't wear underwear (I wear pants only!)... I hate wearing shoes and/or socks
- I wast time pretending I can work 8h/day. C'mon, it's 2021, no one (at least in my profession, IT) can say that it's possible to work totally focus 8h/day five days per week. That's BS. I can work fully focused 4h/day and call it a day. At home I don't pretend, so I have more time for myself
- I eat better at home. At home: Healthy snacks, plenty of fruit, small meals. At the office: kinda the same, but I don't get to pick which fruits and the like; besides they are gone fast (I do miss not having to pay for them, tho)
[+] [-] fairity|4 years ago|reply
Corporations will make decisions based on what maximizes productivity.
I don’t think remote work will persist to the extent people believe.
There are exceptions to the first rule - when an employee is especially motivated. Even then, they’re one bad managerial decision away from checking out.
I’m aware of studies that support boost in productivity over covid, but I believe this is bc there are fewer distracting things to do during covid than normal.
[+] [-] solosoyokaze|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] null_object|4 years ago|reply
REALLY hoping we're not forced back to the office at my company - along with 75% of the other developers at my place (we did a Slack poll).
[+] [-] czep|4 years ago|reply