Database: Sqlite or Postgres depending on the expected scale.
The startup time is very fast. I usually see times under a second, which makes iterative changes significantly less painful than something like Spring.
Also setup is ridiculously simple, just throw those libraries in a pom file and use a CDN for htmx. No front end build tools needed since htmx removes the need for most if not all of your javascript.
The whole setup feels kind of old school, but man it makes developing CRUD apps dead simple again.
Lastly, project onboarding is as simple as having someone download intelij and pulling the project. The built in maven and jdk to intelij is all they need. That is as long as you don't need them to run their own Dev database instance, but that's not the end of the world if you utilize docker.
Even if you decide on something else take a look at the above libraries, they're all pretty fantastic.
I don't have much backend background, but I worked with Spring before, and coming from that Ktor was a lot more fun to work with. I don't think I would use it in a huge project, as I feel there a lot of things still missing, but eventually I think it'll be great. Otherwise, Spring Boot + Kotlin is still a great combo.
Would anyone use Scala? If so, any recommendations on server libraries or frameworks? Had an interview with a relatively new company and surprised their backend was all Scala (Data science company so maybe it expanded from just using it for Spark).
I would use it at work because I know it. There are a LOT of libraries in Scala for HTTP up to database stuff, and it really depends on what kind of ecosystem you're walking into:
Play is the closest thing to Rails-like CRUD productivity IMO, and honestly for CRUD most times I would like to write as little code as possible and just get it done, even using low/no-code solutions (postgrest, hasura, htmx), but that wasn't the question :)
Please understand that this is subjective - some people will have good experiences with a language, and some people won't, and thats okay. That's the nature of languages.
But yeah, I use Scala at work for what should be a simple crud app, and I absolutely hate it. Never felt less productive in my life.
The biggest problem with Scala is the type system. Types are great for catching bugs _within_ a program, but don't really help much for catching bugs when the program interacts with the outside world, which CRUD apps do a lot with a database. So I'm paying the cost of having to learn this complex type system and all the wacky ways the type checker can fail, but I'm not reaping much of the benefits that comes from actually using Scala's type system.
And if I'm not using Scala's type system, then what's the compelling reason for choosing it over Kotlin, or even Java?
I think if I had to start new project based on Java I would definitely have Micronaut [0] on my shortlist. I have used it in small personal projects and I have to say that it was a nice change of pace compared to Spring Boot.
My understanding is that Micronaut and Spring can be used together [1].
Lucee.io all the way. It was featured here on hn awhile back. Basically dynamic ecmascript on the JVM. Great for quickly prototyping apps with. I’ve also built many highly scalable enterprise applications with it.
I'm experimenting with Ktor and Kotlin. Ktor seems really well featured with baked in co-routines based concurrency and Kotlin feels a far more sophisticated and productive as a server side language than Go or Python.
I managed to skip few years of front end development. The last time I was at it, the Go was all rage and express JS.
What would you use today to be valuable on the job market?
Whichever stack gets you to build your mvp fastest, or the one you already know and enjoy, or the new shiny one you've been dying to try out, or the one your buddy challenged you to use..
They are just tools, which you pick is a matter of preference. Just pick one unless you enjoy spending your time thinking about which to pick rather than get to work and build your project
I get the sentiment and it’s appealing to just pick something and go with it. I work with people that constantly churn on frameworks. They pick one and the first semi-difficult roadblock and they’re changing things up. To balence that out though. Picking something involves a significant investment and a long term commitment. That advice wouldn’t sound as good if you said,”Don’t worry about who you marry. Just pick one and go with it and make things work”
[+] [-] fayten|4 years ago|reply
JVM Language: Java 11+
Webserver: https://javalin.io/
Templating: https://j2html.com/
Enhanced html attributes: https://htmx.org/
Database helper: http://jdbi.org/
Database: Sqlite or Postgres depending on the expected scale.
The startup time is very fast. I usually see times under a second, which makes iterative changes significantly less painful than something like Spring.
Also setup is ridiculously simple, just throw those libraries in a pom file and use a CDN for htmx. No front end build tools needed since htmx removes the need for most if not all of your javascript.
The whole setup feels kind of old school, but man it makes developing CRUD apps dead simple again.
Lastly, project onboarding is as simple as having someone download intelij and pulling the project. The built in maven and jdk to intelij is all they need. That is as long as you don't need them to run their own Dev database instance, but that's not the end of the world if you utilize docker.
Even if you decide on something else take a look at the above libraries, they're all pretty fantastic.
[+] [-] oweiler|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] harryvederci|4 years ago|reply
- Database: Postgres or SQLite
- Frontend: None, the backend serves html + js by combining htmx[1] and hiccup[2]
[0] https://github.com/metosin/reitit
[1] https://htmx.org/
[2] https://github.com/weavejester/hiccup
[+] [-] croo|4 years ago|reply
I would consider trading these for faster build times... I heard good things about javalin.
I would definelty use Java. I like it and there are tonns of new features in the 11+ versions. Boilerplate is greatly reduced by Lombok.
I would consider Kotlin for even less boilerplate and null handling.
[+] [-] videogreg93|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noughtme|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blandflakes|4 years ago|reply
* Scala as Python: https://github.com/com-lihaoyi/cask, maybe https://github.com/getquill/quill
* Scala as Haskell: HTTP4s, https://tpolecat.github.io/doobie/
* Scala as Rails: Play
Play is the closest thing to Rails-like CRUD productivity IMO, and honestly for CRUD most times I would like to write as little code as possible and just get it done, even using low/no-code solutions (postgrest, hasura, htmx), but that wasn't the question :)
[+] [-] yen223|4 years ago|reply
But yeah, I use Scala at work for what should be a simple crud app, and I absolutely hate it. Never felt less productive in my life.
The biggest problem with Scala is the type system. Types are great for catching bugs _within_ a program, but don't really help much for catching bugs when the program interacts with the outside world, which CRUD apps do a lot with a database. So I'm paying the cost of having to learn this complex type system and all the wacky ways the type checker can fail, but I'm not reaping much of the benefits that comes from actually using Scala's type system.
And if I'm not using Scala's type system, then what's the compelling reason for choosing it over Kotlin, or even Java?
[+] [-] tiew9Vii|4 years ago|reply
Http4s, zio-json, zio-config, scalate templates, doobie for the db.
These are libraries not frameworks but the way it’s designed you don’t need a framework as so easy to slot together.
Think of it as writing a crud app with Express on NodeJS. Or one of the other bare bones HTTP server/routers.
Admittedly it’s an acquired taste but if understand them it’s the most flexible/simple I’ve used across various languages.
You also have Play framework which is a full stack framework, Java like but Scala syntax and closer to Spring Boot than Http4s etc.
[+] [-] karanbhangui|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exabrial|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fabbari|4 years ago|reply
My understanding is that Micronaut and Spring can be used together [1].
[0] https://micronaut.io/ [1] https://micronaut-projects.github.io/micronaut-spring/latest...
[+] [-] sarabad2021|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway189262|4 years ago|reply
It's a nice mix of simplicity and effectiveness.
If you want performance above all else, Vert.X isn't too hard to use. But the async API's are a PITA, much like ExpressJS.
[+] [-] pjmlp|4 years ago|reply
If a CMS solution is required, LifeRay or Adobe Experience Manager.
Preferably with Oracle as database, and most performance critical queries written in PL/SQL.
Although I am sure this is a not welcomed solution in this side of Internet.
[+] [-] sfifs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varispeed|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sarabad2021|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] preordained|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emrah|4 years ago|reply
Whichever stack gets you to build your mvp fastest, or the one you already know and enjoy, or the new shiny one you've been dying to try out, or the one your buddy challenged you to use..
They are just tools, which you pick is a matter of preference. Just pick one unless you enjoy spending your time thinking about which to pick rather than get to work and build your project
[+] [-] zcw100|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 5cott0|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] homarp|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajdoingnothing|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] surajcm|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blntechie|4 years ago|reply