Ask HN: Mobile phone addiction help?

[swen-rekcah]

Hey HN

I’m looking for advice and/or suggestions on how to “lockdown/brick” my mobile (iPhone 8) phone to only be able to do a select number of things.

I currently suffer with OCD and anxiety, and my addictions to my phone is making me lethargic and causing regular migraines and eye strain issues.

I do have a second “dumb phone” (Nokia flip 2720) but due to having a “mobile only” bank account I have to have access to my iPhone.

I only really want to be able to text (not WhatsApp) call, and have access to 3 banking apps. I have tried everything, but when I’m feeling “good” or sometimes when I’m feeling rubbish - I will always end up downloading “scroller” apps - Twitter, Instagram, Shopping apps etc - and I quickly waste days and days hooked to it, before prying myself away from it again.

Any advice would be hugely beneficial.

Thank you

[namelosw]

I don't have problems with phones but I have problems with computers - I was usually ended up with HN and YouTube when I tried to learning/writing/programming for side projects.

Then I recall I read from somewhere that Donald Knuth prefers pen and paper to computer. I tried it and it did work for me. I just turn off the computer and use pen and paper/book/printed stuff most of the time. When I have to use the computer I leave the network cable unplugged and finish it quick; When I have to use the internet, I write down what I going to do and do it then turn off the computer; I only check HN or YouTube on meal breaks or before sleep.

I found programming with pen and paper is surprisingly effective, and arguably makes the system better designed. Reading printed code and take notes in diagrams like half a century ago make me understand better (I don't actually print everything, just collect those parts I find important to an editor then print). Turn-on computer on demand feels like going back to the lab from the dorm when the idea struck. All are slower but make steady progress, and it's enjoyable. Much better than time wasted in vain.

As in hindsight, I don't think I'm addicted because I don't have withdrawal symptoms - I don't get uncomfortable when I'm not using a computer or the Internet. It's just those websites are good at grasping my attention. If that's your case, just turn it off or lock your phone away and only get it when you need your online bank. But if you do have withdrawal symptoms, you probably need to ask professionals to address them.

[tpmx]

It seems like such an obvious/silly thing, but I have found that having a nice large desk space with a good chair and lighting with no single computing device on it is a pretty powerful thing when you've become addicted that way. At least it's useful as a place to read books and magazines, and to sketch stuff on paper.

For the past 25 years, my best (and often only) desk at home has had an Internet-connected desktop computer with the largest/best screen I could afford placed directly in front of the chair.

I've been trying out different placements for this non-computing desk, but I think the best place may actually be just next to the main "computing" desk. Too far away and I end up not using it that much.

[varispeed]

I don't like sitting by the computer, so I usually go on a sofa or somewhere comfy and just stare at the wall until I come up with what exactly I need to program. Sometimes I use pen and paper, or more recently reMarkable. Then I get on the computer and sprint through the implementation and all tests etc. I cannot do that when working in the office - people think I am lazy and don't work. I hate that you are forced to sit by the stupid machine. Since I won't code anything until I know exactly what to do, I tend to just browse stuff on auto-pilot not event thinking what I am looking at the screen. That as well make coworkers think I am lazy. I feel anxious when I think that I may be required to be coming back. I'll definitely quit if they start pushing hard.

[yetanother-1]

I like your idea of offline paper-based programming for side projects and one-man-projects. However it becomes very difficult to do any of that in a group of people in the middle of a pendamic. But will give it a try. Thanks!

[cik]

This is the exact same problem I have with writing. Whenever I sit down to write - I find that work, notifications, heck the entire machine gets in the way. I've now reverted to pen and paper at least for now. It seems like a great way to get into a flow state - even if antithetical to active changes. At the same time I get to use my fountain pens, so that makes me happy.

[retrac]

I am inclined to agree with the others than a technological solution is not likely what you need. The trick is to segregate these areas mentally, so that you are acutely aware of when you are "on forbidden ground". The "rubber band" trick has been mentioned here already, and it's based on helping to re-enforce that awareness. Technological solutions can help do this. Timer apps that give you a regular notice to "GTFO THE PHONE FOR 15 MIN NOW" for example, are building the same kind of awareness, just as a software tool to do so.

In my case these bad habits predate the iPhone's existence. What we call phone addiction now was the "Internet addiction" of 15 years ago. Some strategies that have helped me, I think:

One: The phone never comes to bed with me. It never comes out in real-life social interactions either.

Two: During the day I keep it physically separate from me if possible. In my drawer at work. Just on the table on the other side of the room here at home right now. Checking it requires physically standing up and walking over. More likely this will percolate up into conscious awareness.

Following from that, stand when you're on the phone. Don't sit down and slump and relax.

Three: Purge all the dopamine-ticklers. In my case, if you'll excuse the bluntness, that means: No Twitter or other clickbait feeds. No outrage-driven news. No porn. No hookup apps. No endless-browsing online shopping.

Hell, even Hacker News warrants some caution. You're just such a rewarding bunch.

And this is not just on the phone. In all of my life. As a general mental cordon sanitaire. I cross into the quarantined zone often, I must admit, but the key is to be aware, to have a niggling sense of unease, when you're in the danger zone. Check your dosimeter regularly and have a planned exit.

[throwaway_kufu]

>tand when you're on the phone. Don't sit down and slump and relax.

I like this and though I rarely talk on the phone, when I do the vast majority of the time I pace back and forth. Even at the office I’d close the door and do the same. Never thought about these actions at all until now.

Maybe somewhat related growing up my older brother used to do push-ups (usually 20) every time he opened the refrigerator. Watching that day in and day out while he was in high school left a lasting impact on me. No doubt it is odd, but I’d do push ups in all sorts of situations, for example playing disc golf if I had a really bad throw, I’d drop and do push-ups. Maybe something OP could do every time the phone opens, just don’t look at it like a punishment, rather something healthy that helps build discipline and genuine thought to your actions. Plus inevitably it will open the door to openly discussing it with others.

[WrtCdEvrydy]

> No porn. No hookup apps. No endless-browsing online shopping.

But... why even have a phone if you can't buy random shit online?

[cle]

Any technical advice about how to block yourself is beating around the bush IMO. Not only is it easy to bypass most of that stuff, but you'll be way better off learning how to deal with this psychological issue directly instead of trying to avoid triggering it.

Edit: They are not mutually exclusive by any means, I just mean that you will benefit in the long-run by addressing the psychological problem that leads to this behavior and manifests in this way. It probably manifests in other ways too, outside of phone addiction.

[idrios]

One of the steps for overcoming alcoholism is getting the alcohol out of your house. Phone addiction is the same way, it definitely takes hard work and discipline on the part of the user, but there needs to be a way to get rid of your phone or at least the functionality that makes it addictive, without losing essential utility like keeping in contact with people, or in OP's case a mobile-only bank account

[cinntaile]

A lot of this behaviour is habit though. Increasing the treshold just a tiny bit might be enough to break the habit could improve his situation. Anecdotally I had some sites I visited out of habit and not because I actually needed to visit them, my simple solution was to block them. This created enough of a treshold to get rid of the habit. Sure I can go and unblock them if I want to, there is nothing preventing me from doing that. It's just that this breaks the habit. At first it frequently happened that I tried to go to the site and it didn't work, but nowadays I simply don't visit them anymore. Everyone is different of course and you have to find what works for you. It's of course not a replacement for real professional help if that's needed.

[tmerr]

I see no reason not to combine willpower with psychology tricks. I think of it as playing a game between my rational brain vs limbic system. Yes, my rational brain might be ahead for a while, but limbic system is always there to find me in moment of weakness. So I remove opportunities for it to take control. Turning off PC before work, laptop in the closet, phone across the room, ringer on. Simple and effective.

I have had better luck with physical impedances, and don't bother with tech ones now unless they're simple (uninstalling distracting apps). Like you say most software is easily circumvented.

[tasssko]

I agree with you, technical tricks could instead evolve into the person worrying constantly about not looking at their phone. Mindfulness and preparation make this easier, however it is not easy. Personally I deal with this by putting the phone down, using DND mode and have most notifications off. That doesn't stop me thinking about 'whats happening on HN' or in the news or on social media. It's a constant process that needs work. I'm not an expert so I won't pretend to know any more than this but I have also recently started telling myself that there isn't anything important that can't wait.

[kelnos]

Agreed. I would suggest OP speak to a licensed mental health professional about this. Blocking access to most of the phone is treating the symptoms, not the underlying issue.

Of course, some technical countermeasures to block some access might be a (short-term?) part of the treatment.

Another short-term option: switch bank accounts so you can access it from your laptop, and ditch the iPhone entirely.

[luto]

I managed to get rid of multiple unhealthy online habits like excessive reddit browsing using very simple network blocks. They help a lot even though I am able to trivially circumvent them.

[activitypea]

This is the correct advice. I hate hearing it but its true :)

[vchynarov]

~The Triple Ziploc Bag method.~

I dedicate a few days a month to being absolutely phone-free. The key point is I'm allowed to use Reddit/IG but I have to use a laptop/desktop to access them. This method requires a key ingredient: three ziploc bags.

I wrap both my work phone (when not oncall) and my personal phone in three nested ziploc bags and put them in a drawer. This acts as a great deterrent most of the time.

I've started doing this on/off since last December. Each month I aim to have at least like 6+ completely phone free days. This isn't to say I still don't have bad days where I'm completely addicted to my phone, but overall I feel so much better with this habit.

My therapist who deals with other software engineers has mentioned me as a positive case study for people with similar problems :)

[winkelwagen]

Can recommend something like this. You can even buy something with a timerlock. Atomic habits (book) gives this advice. The idea is that “bad” behavior shouldn’t be super easy.

I have a small cupboard with a key lock where I put some of the chocolates. Not saying I can’t have any, but walk around the house to get the key gives me enough time for meditation to ask myself Am I hungry, or do I really want some chocolate.

[coolspot]

Can you elaborate why ziploc bags specifically and why three?

I assume ziplocs because you still can see the screen and probably could even interact with it, but not easily.

Then three, because if you really need the phone right now, you could rip it open, just not easily.

Are my guesses right?

[subsection1h]

> I will always end up downloading “scroller” apps - Twitter, Instagram

Start reading the journals of the ACM and IEEE:

https://dl.acm.org/journals

https://www.ieee.org/publications/

Afterwards, branch out into other fields and read their journals.

Lastly, realize that nearly all of the information on Twitter, Instagram, HN and most of the web is of low quality and should be avoided.

[dbtc]

This is quality advice! ;)

[cmod]

A lot of folks are saying a technical solution isn’t the answer, but I’d say it’s a core part of getting to the next stage.

I’d recommend reading James Clear’s Atomic Habits to get a high-level view of what your body/mind is doing when you reach for certain apps/impulses.

Personally, I’ve found that installing blockers like Freedom and setting up timed schedules has significantly increase my productivity and cut back on wasted device time. Fwiw, the “fun” parts of the internet turn off at 10pm and don’t go back on until noon the next day.

You can also set a timed block at the router level, set a password for the setting via a password manager, give the password to a friend, and then delete it from your manager.

I find by simply removing the easy option to engage, the impulse to do so significantly diminishes. It’s only after you’ve felt what that diminished impulse is like and see the effects on productivity that you can then take bigger steps to change your habits.

So, I’m a big advocate for technical solutions because they help reduce need for self control / impulse control by removing the option on a schedule you define when you are your “best” or “most optimistic” self. (Yes, they can be circumvented, but you can also make that significantly onerous as to be usefully frictive.)

[gnicholas]

Turn on the system-wide parental controls and have someone else set the password. You can set time limits for apps (x mins per day), designated hours for apps (only between 6-8p), and block apps outright.

If you live with someone who can be your password-holder, this is easy with little downside. If you don't, you need to think about the possibility of emergency use of the phone. But I think it will let you call 911 at any time of day regardless of parental controls.

One thing I will note from when I set this up years ago for a friend's family: there aren't persistent preferences, and once you disable parental controls (even just for a minute), you have to re-enable every single control manually. This may well have changed in the last 5 years though — I certainly hope so!

[ppf]

I spent a while on this path - removing apps, hiding others, setting personal time limits or other restrictions on my phone usage. At each step on the way, all I learned is that I need to go further. Short of getting rid of your smartphone (which I have now done), the most effective thing I found was to make sure you put your phone in some fixed place in the house where you won't typically look at it (a shelf in the kitchen, in my case), ideally with it turned off. Even then, I would find after a few days that my phone was back in my hand and I had been wasting a lot of time on it.

There are no easy answers, sorry. You'll always find a way around any lockdown you do.

[all2]

I have an acquaintance that has a time-locked box he puts his phone in. I thought it was a novel solution to the problem.

[nicbou]

One thing that helps for me is to reduce the supply of information. I disabled as many feeds and suggestions as possible, if necessary with ad blockers. My Facebook and LinkedIn feeds are literally empty. I've been aggressively cutting notifications and incoming emails from all sources. I also interact far less on social media, so I rarely get pulled back in. I have fewer and fewer ways to kill time online.

On the phone itself, all notifications are off except for instant messages. I don't have any social media apps, only utilities. There's nothing to do on my phone anymore.

I found that MacOS' screen time notification is a great incentive to step away from the computer. My average screen time is a few hours less than it was a few weeks ago.

You should also pay attention to what triggers a look at your phone and work on that. Learning to fight the muscle reflex os important too.

[toast0]

> due to having a “mobile only” bank account I have to have access to my iPhone.

If using your iPhone is a problem for you (and it seems it is), having an account that requires it is a negative. Drop that account and use an account that works with you.

Try keeping track of transactions and balances in a paper register, and reduce checking the online account or phone banking to once a week. In the old days, people would reconcile their account with a paper statement once a month, and that was usually good enough.

[Daily20]

You can use Screen Time to prevent yourself from installing new apps. First, delete all applications aside from your banking apps. Next, go to Settings - Screen Time - Content and Privacy Restrictions - iTunes & App Store Purchases. From here, you can disable installing apps, which hides the App Store on your phone. You can also disable Safari from Screen Time. If you find yourself turning off Screen Time, have somebody else set a four digit passcode for you. You'll be left with a phone that can only text and bank.

[swen-rekcah]

Thanks for the suggestion re:screen time - I have attempted this multiple times, and even got my partner to set the passcode. However I just bypass it and reset it via forgot passcode and my Apple ID password

[ntnlabs]

I have locked down one of my phones this way and it's working really nice.

[bishnu]

The rubber band trick [1] really helped me. Took my unlocks-per-day from ~100 to ~20. I took it off after about 2 weeks and it's more or less stayed that way.

1: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/mo...

[1270018080]

For others reading, the rubber band trick is just putting a rubber band around the device to make you think about it.

I thought it was going to be classically condition yourself by snapping yourself in the wrist with a rubber band every time you use your phone.

[twodave]

I found the below extremely effective at curbing addictive behaviors myself.

Find somebody you trust and have them password-protect your Screen Time settings and lock them down. Uninstall anything you don't want distracting you. Disable literally everything except the banking apps, texting and calling.

If you really need to get into your phone for whatever reason, there's a feature that allows you to request time.

You can also always wipe the phone using any computer with MacOS on it (or just take it to an Apple Store) if things become desperate.

DO NOT click the button that prompts you to persist your Screen Time settings to iCloud--that crap is nearly impossible to get rid of, and you'll be stuck creating a new iCloud account if your friend disappears for whatever reason.

If you can't do the above for whatever reason, then I'd suggest changing your banking memberships so that you no longer depend on phone apps. If you're really serious about solving your problems then you'll need to be ready to do "whatever it takes."

[mosseater]

Here's what happened to me. I dropped my phone at the bank, and it completely broke. The time to get a replacement was so long (2 weeks) I had to come up with another solution. So now I have a google voice number, already synced with my google contacts. I can access the calls, voicemails, and texts on my computer. I have a gps app on my tablet. The only thing I'm missing is a prepaid tracphone in case I need to dial 911.

It's not modern by any means, but do I -really- need 4G and calling where ever I go?

Probably actually, this shit sucks.

[jtr1]

I've suffered from similar problems (anxiety/ADHD/compulsive behavior). Definitely had endless scrolling mess with my sleep and exacerbate mental health issues. I've tried Apple's Screen Time feature, but found it far to easy to bybass. Until they fix that, here's the system that's worked consistently, if imperfectly, for me:

1. Download Apple Configurator and put the phone in supervised mode. This will require you to wipe the phone, so make sure you have contacts, photos, etc backed up. Configurator will allow you to block apps you couldn't otherwise delete like Safari and the App Store. 2. Create a profile on Configurator and whitelist the websites you are allowed to visit. For me, this is mostly just login pages for various apps that use a webview for sign in. 3. Install Focus (heyfocus.com) on your mac. It'll take some tweaking to get the settings right, but it'll allow you to set up a scheduled blocker for various apps/websites. I have the Configurator app blocked during all but a short window at the beginning and end of the day.

This has allowed me to pare my phone down to the essentials. It's annoying from time to time, but it leaves an escape hatch for situations where I've needed more capability on my phone. Been using this for about three years and it's mostly worked.

[swen-rekcah]

Thank you! This looks really helpful! I will definitely look into this immediately

[jedberg]

Do you have a partner who lives with you or someone you trust? You can set up child restrictions on your phone that limits which apps you can use and how often and limits installing new apps, and then let your trusted person set the password and not tell you.

Then if you need to do one of those things, your trusted person can unlock it for you.

[silicon2401]

This is what works for me to cut down on phone time when I get tired of it:

turn off/mute ALL notifications that aren't absolutely critical, crank up your notification/ringtone volume, keep your phone somewhere out of the way but within earshot like next to your front door or in the bathroom, and find other things to play with. Buy an instrument, video games, books, movies, whatever. When you get bored, you need something ready to play with or else you're going to just walk over to your phone

We get addicted to shallow things like phones when we don't have something better to keep our attention. Find something better that you have real fun with, not something that just kills time

[avgDev]

Definitely NOT video games. If OP wants to replace staring at phone it needs to be something that will not constantly reward him.

Games, phones, social media are extremely addictive as they give us constant rewards. Reading an actual book becomes boring. I suffered from the same problem with games. I had to uninstall games and completely stop playing for a week or two before I had an itch to do something else like reading a book or studying. It is insanely scary, and for me it was bad. Even to a point that I would say that it is an addiction.

[MuffinFlavored]

> video games

I'm curious why switching from scrolling Instagram/communicating with friends on WhatsApp should be "frowned upon" (this is what comes to my mind personally when I hear the words "phone addiction) if the alternative is to trade it with something even more hyper-stimulating, like a video game.

If the post this week is "how can I be less addicted to my phone", and you replace your phone with video games, won't the post next week just be "how can I be less addicted to video games"?

[davzie]

My time to shine! I spent 2 - 3 years going back and forth between dumb phones and smartphones with various different measures for the same reasons. Here is my video with my final summations on the topic and how some techniques I’ve found may help you (iOS specific): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-TKgRxdA5o

Feel free to follow me on Twitter too and chat about any questions you have. I’ve been playing around with these sorts of ideas for years and find it really fascinating / interesting. I can also recommend some fantastic books.

[yosito]

Something that worked for me: I bought an Onyx Boox Note, which runs most Android apps. I installed all of my news and social apps on that, and uninstalled them from my phone. When I want to consume content for entertainment, I use that. The e ink screen adds enough friction and takes away some of the stimulation, so it's far less addictive. My phone use has dropped to about 1 hour a day, just for necessary messaging, banks, maps, etc. My e ink tablet usage is probably 2 hours a day or less.

This doesn't really prevent re-installing scroller apps. But if your phone is in your hand less often, and you have another way to check those apps from time to time, you won't have as much temptation to fight.

I also leave my phone around the house instead of in my pocket. I put it on the table, or leave it on a shelf, etc, and forget about it. I also recommend going for a walk every once in awhile and leaving your phone at home.

[ranguna]

I'd say, get professional help.

From what I see, you want a cure all dumb and easy method to stop you from using your phone. Forget it, it's not gonna happen, there is no easy way anymore with the behaviour you are showing: reseting your girlfriend's password on your phone without feeling guilt is just beyond healthy right now.

Even if you somehow switch to another bank with a Web app, you'll probably switch from scrolling tweeter on your phone to scrolling on your laptop.

Get a therapist and talk it out.