Launch HN: Buoyant (YC S21) – Blimp drones for air freight

[joefigura]

Hi, we’re Ben and Joe from Buoyant (https://www.buoyant.aero/). We build small unmanned cargo airships and use them to move air freight at half the cost per mile of a small plane.

An airship (or blimp) is an aircraft that gets most of its lift from a lifting gas like helium. It’s the most efficient way to fly, which means it’s cheaper than any other aircraft for many missions. We’re starting by building an aircraft for middle-mile air freight in remote and rural areas—warehouse-to-warehouse or post office to post office. This is a $6B market in the US alone, and freight volumes are only increasing. By building autonomous blimps, we can lower shipping costs, increase quality and speed of service, and cut out millions of tons of CO2 emissions.

So far, we’ve built and flown four airships. The latest is 20 feet long and can fly up to 35 miles per hour. Here’s a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYOfVcwRhk.

We’re starting in areas where freight is already moved on small planes and helicopters. In these remote areas, availability of goods is lower, shipping takes longer, and it’s more expensive. For example, food in rural parts of Alaska is twice as expensive as in Anchorage. Small air freight is particularly expensive because of the cost of fuel, maintenance, pilots, and airport infrastructure. To make major cost reductions we need a new type of aircraft.

Ben is a mechanical engineer from Alaska and grew up in the outdoors, so is familiar with the challenges of remote supply operations. He has built aircraft tracking technology for the DoD, flat panel phased array antennas, GPS data loggers for motorsports, and helped start a company that made shirts with upside down pockets. I’m an aerospace engineer who’s built and flown spacecraft at two internet satellite startups, spending a lot of time on complicated flying machines. We met at MIT and have been friends for almost a decade since.

We spent years building satellites and antennas to provide internet connectivity to rural areas, and while doing so learned about the transportation challenges in remote places. Many drone delivery projects have focused on delivering small packages in suburbs, and are too short range or low payload to serve rural areas. We realized small airships were a technical approach that could work to move cargo in these areas, and decided to tackle the challenge.

An airship is the most efficient way to fly because it gets most of its lift from buoyancy, rather than spending energy on rotor lift or aerodynamic lift over a wing. This lets us fly further and carry more payload than other small aircraft. Other attempts at unmanned cargo aircraft have used quadcopters or quad-plane hybrid drones. These are useful for some missions but lack the flight efficiency to carry large payloads long distances. Airships have other benefits too: they are safer and quieter than quadcopters or multirotor-plane hybrids. If the motors fail, an airship floats to the ground, while a quadcopter comes crashing down. And it’s an easy way to build an aircraft that can takeoff and land vertically, like a helicopter.

Our airship is a fabric envelope filled with helium, with an attached payload bay, motors, and power system. It gets 2/3 of its lift from buoyancy, and the rest from aerodynamic lift. This combination is called a hybrid airship, and allows us to drop off a payload without needing to take on ballast. The aircraft flies autonomously and can take off and land in inclement weather, using centimeter accuracy GPS for approaches. The full scale version will load 650 lbs of cargo at one end, fly to the destination while we pilot it remotely, deposit the cargo, and return. Our first operational vehicle will be battery electric, with a range of 200-300 miles and a cruise speed of 60 mph. Future vehicles will have hydrogen powertrains for longer-range missions.

We started off with a last-mile delivery concept (“Amazon box to the house”). But in conversations with logistics providers, we found a recurring problem transporting 300-600 lb shipments between warehouses or between airports. Using drones to deliver to houses is operationally complex, and the path to doing so at scale is still murky. But with a 650 lb payload, our drone can fit neatly into existing supply chains in the middle mile. This makes our operations much simpler and should allow us to get to market relatively quickly with a few aircraft on a few routes. We’ve closed $5M in LOIs, including one from a large regional air carrier in Alaska, and have two pilot programs planned.

We loved reading the thread a couple weeks ago about hydrogen vs. helium for blimps, and are excited to see what people think about our airships! Where do you see the biggest use case for vehicles like ours? Let us know any other thoughts or ideas, and we’ll be active in the comments today.

[blantonl]

This is a neat concept - especially considering they are autonomous. However, I wonder about these risk scenarios:

1) Weather. Moving at 35 mph it seems that a lot of long term planning is in order for something that could be severely impacted by weather. This sounds like a logistical nightmare during a week of active weather across the country.

2) Helium availability - there have been reports that the costs of helium have gone up considerably since there are only a very few producers of the gas and this seems like it would be a huge consumer of such gas.

3) Vandalism. Never underestimate the power of stupid people. It's well known in the railroad industry that trains and their cargo often take bullets from traveling cross country. In fact, the 737 fuselages that travel across country on trains for Boeing often have bullet holes in them that must be repaired. Add in a huge cargo blimp that is unmanned and the urge for vandalism will be significant for some nefarious actors.

[Benclaman]

These are awesome questions! Here's a couple answers:

1) We're building our full size airship to fly at 60 mph, which increases the usability in inclement weather.

2) Joe answered this in another comment, but our airships use pretty small quantities of helium compared to the bigger ones, so it's not a major operational cost.

3) For sure this is an issue, but the bigger the blimp is, the more bullet holes you'd have to fill it with to prevent it from reaching its final destination. The german zeppelins of world war I were really hard to shoot down. See 5:47 of the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQgprSGpNI

[lachstar-x]

Hello gents! I have a burning question for you - what do you think about the idea of building a small airship that can be lived and traveled in? Sort of like a tiny house or vanlife, but in the air.

It's something I've always thought about since reading about it in science fiction books. What would the cost of something like that be?

[pontifier]

I've thought about the same kind of thing. I registered Dirigibuilding.com several years ago because of it.

One of the best things I see about dirigibles vs other aircraft is that volume is plentiful. Because you want to minimize weight vs size, larger rooms are better. I imagine a floating mansion rather than a floating van.

[all2]

OP has mentioned a 60ft version of their autonomous airship would be in the neighborhood of a couple hundred thousand USD.

[traceroute66]

Don't take this the wrong way but...

I think its hard to avoid the elephant in the room that blimp cargo has been a dream ever since the invention of the blimp, and if we put your technology claims to one side (because they are more an assistant, not an enabler) I'm not too sure what makes you any different ?

Look at what is perhaps your most recent competitor ... Flying Whales.

Going since 2012, burning through cash like there's no tomorrow ($30m Quebec, €225m France etc. etc.) , and so far maybe promising some sort of prototype by 2024 (already slipped from 2021).

What really makes you so different from prior dreamers and in particular your present competitors ?

[Benclaman]

We're not planning to build something that's 600 feet long and costs hundreds of millions, we're building something that's 60 feet long and costs hundreds of thousands. Unmanned blimps of this size don't require the same amount of capital, so we can fly faster and get to market faster.

[quadcore]

Entirely fair question I think. I'd add that execution can easily be the difference. Notably french startups generally have poor execution. For example, the entrepreneur in France generally has to get loan on his own person, indebting himself, "to be sure he believes in his own idea".

[thehappypm]

This is such a terrible critique, in my opinion. Just because something's never been done well doesn't mean it's impossible.

[dmix]

I don't understand why it took so long for them to build a prototype? 12 years?

[lyime]

Basically why now?

[Mountain_Skies]

Suggestion for a potential marketing tool when you get to that point: have someone create your blimp in Microsoft Flight Simulator. While blimps already exist in the simulator, your design sounds unique and this would be a way to raise awareness of your company, even if sim players aren't your target customers.

[joefigura]

We're planning to do this! Ben is a big fan of flight simulators and we'll build a model once things calm down a bit post YC

[elamje]

Very cool concept.

I’m sure your guys have done a ton of prior art, but I want to encourage you to make sure Amazon hasn’t patented this in any capacity yet.

A close friend that worked at Prime Air shared how years ago their division had a full time legal staff dedicated to patenting all engineers ideas. He had gotten several patents even being entry level FWIW. They had several concepts very similar to this and it wouldn’t surprise me if they were able to get that IP locked down. Like I said, I expect you all have checked and rechecked but thought it’s worth mentioning.

[diskzero]

I was once told by a VC to never do a patent search as the money spent on the search and analysis would be better spent on developing the idea. Bad advice?

[hellbannedguy]

Everytime I hear about companies patenting everything, it really bothers me.

I wish we would tie patent fees to the assets of a company, or person. Basically the wealthy boys would pay much more for a patent, and low income individuals woukd pay less, or nothing.

So a big company might think twice about an exponential government fee when they are on their 100 patent.

[lexicality]

What's your plan for dealing with the fact that Helium is a non-renewable resource that we are rapidly running out of?

Have you done experiments into hydrogen safety?

[joefigura]

Good questions. Helium is non-renewable, but there is still plenty in the ground. It's a byproduct of natural gas extraction, and as long as there's more gas in the ground there will be helium available. We do think that declining natural gas production as the world decarbonizes is a long term risk.

The helium market's been pretty volatile since the U.S. government finished selling off the national helium reserve in 2019. But we think that's mostly due to short-term market dynamics because helium's a hard commodity to produce and there are only a few producers. There are lots of stories about helium running out, but we've dug in and haven't found much evidence that supply is actually drying up

We think we can build a hydrogen blimp safely. It's not on our tech roadmap currently, but in any case the best way to build a hydrogen blimp is to get lots of flight hours on a helium version first.

[fernly]

Video would be much more impressive if it showed loading the cargo package -- can it pick up autonomously or does it need to be loaded by a ground crew? -- and also dropping it off within a designated space marked by cones.

Will the full-size model be able to lift a standard 40-foot shipping container? That would be very cool indeed, to have the blimp pick up from a truck or from a container ship.

[tempestn]

The full size blimp is only 60ft long, and is intended to carry 650lb, so not anywhere near a shipping container. Also I'm not sure it's important that it be able to pick up or even drop off autonomously. It's getting the cargo from point A to point B that's the hard part. If they can do that cost effectively, that's plenty to have a very viable business.

[wombatpm]

Tare weight for a shipping container is 8000lbs, so no.

[peregrine]

This is really cool and this is the kind of startup I'd be applying to in a heartbeat! Very excited to see this happening, great work! I feel like there is vastly more potential for LTA flight that isn't being re-explored with autonomous drones and solar being viable now.

What altitudes do you intend on operating in the "v1"?

[notahacker]

> I feel there is vastly more potential for LTA flight that isn't being re-explored with autonomous drones and solar being viable now

Interesting to see it go the other way too. Hybrid Air Vehicles near me is the remnants of a cancelled US military autonomous blimp project, now aspiring to use the large helium blimps originally powered by diesel engines to pilot 100 civilians passengers as an alternative to turboprops (i.e. use the bits of the tech and the business model that's been around in some form since before Hindenberg)

I do think freight with electric propulsion (over distances battery-powered heavier than air aircraft can't compete even if they're also autonomous) is an easier environmentally friendly sell.

[joefigura]

Standard drone regulations in the U.S. allow mostly unrestricted flight up to 400 feet. We think that's about the right altitude to stay below general aviation - no obvious advantages to flying higher - but TBD depending on how regulations evolve

[fishtoaster]

That's very cool!

How does it handle weather? You mention it can take off and land in inclement weather, but how does it compare with existing competitors? Intuitively (as someone with zero knowledge or experience in any of this), it seems like planes and helicopters could handle higher winds than a blimp - is that the case?

[Benclaman]

It depends. For example, small planes need runways to take off and land, and if the crosswinds are over 15 kts they aren't able to operate. In this same situation, our airships would be able to take off and land because they have VTOL capability like a helicopter and can point in any direction. Helicopter can take off and land in really high winds, up to 40 kts, but they are 4-8x more expensive to operate than planes, and have limited range.

Our test site is by a wind farm so we have a lot of experience with flying blimps in wind, and we expect our max takeoff windspeed for the full size airship to be 25-30 kts.

[deepnotderp]

Isn’t the von Karman efficiency of small airships very low? I struggle to see how you can claim “ An airship is the most efficient way to fly because it gets most of its lift from buoyancy”.

Either way, seems like a cool project- I wish you luck!

[joefigura]

Good question! Airships do get more efficient as they get larger (more volume to surface area). But at the 650 lb payload size our vehicles fly more efficiency than a comparably-sized plane - small planes are also aerodynamically inefficient!

Our goal isn't to maximize efficiency, but rather to build something that fits a market need and that we can deploy quickly. We actually think that the quest to build huge, efficient airships has lead past airship projects astray. There are several projects that have struggled to build 10 ton or 50 ton vehicles, but no past attempts to build something in this size class.

[thehappypm]

Planes encounter a lot of air resistance because they're constantly creating lift, which means they're pushing a lot of air around -- which means drag. Planes also fly fast which means a lot of drag (drag forces are proportional to velocity squared). Blimps don't need to produce lift, and they move much slower.

[Mizza]

Nifty! Simple, exciting and aesthetically pleasing idea. I've known people from Alaska who have to get their supplies flown in, so it's cool you're covering that use case from the start - although apparently that whole service economy is really driven by the smuggling of alcohol, as many towns there are "dry". You may be stepping on some toes if you muscle into this territory.

How does piloting work? Is the goal to make these things completely autonomous, or will there be a remote pilot at all times?

What's the business model? Can I buy one of your blimps, or are you going to become FedEx of the low skies?

[Benclaman]

The goal is to make them completely autonomous, though a pilot observer will likely be required for the near future.

Business model is something we're still figuring out. We have interest on both sides, but at first we'll definitely be operating themselves as the 'FedEx of the low skies.' Once the airship is certified (1-3 years after we build it), we can sell them.

[burnished]

I think this is a really interesting project. When I read about the helium vs hydrogen post, same as you, I started scratching things out for curiosities sake (I was more curious about how high you could reasonably go). Very exciting stuff. I've got a bunch of questions, feel free to cherry pick if you decide to respond.

How delicate do you suspect this will be? Will a bored or malicious person be able to cause harm with a laser, an air rifle with pellet or BB, or gun? In the event of a puncture what is the failure mode like? Are you worried about birds? Are you concerned about banditry? I know the last might sound silly, but you'd only really need to go to our grand-parents and great-grand-parents to find some train robbers.

I could see Hollywood making use of this for filming in remote locations. Or other situations where you need to get something heavy and oddly shaped up or over a mountain. Relief work as well where the roads aren't operable. Wouldn't surprise me if this had applications in agriculture either, if anyone is still using planes might be nicer to have an autonomous blimp instead. Maybe stuff like introducing fish to alpine lakes, if you've got good control of vertical height you could probably design a safe exit system.

Most of that is supposing that getting the blimp somewhere to then be used is easy. How is transportation of those things when not in use?

[Benclaman]

A bored or malicious person will definitely be able to shoot our airships. The nice part about an airship is that if you shoot it with a gun, the hole will be small so it will take a long time for the gas to leak out. The failure mode is the airship will gradually lose lift and have trouble flying, probably on the order of hours before it wouldn't have enough to fly.

Most of the time we'll be operating over areas without people, so if the airships do get shot at, they should be in an area where they can safely land and be recovered. The envelope will be tough enough to handle birds landing on it.

Regarding banditry, we hope that we are providing enough value to these communities that there will be peer pressure to prevent it.

It's relatively easy to transport them when not in use, either keeping them inflated and flying to the end location, or packing them up and assembling/inflating on location.

[quadcore]

Wooah the video is so hacker-cool. I would add a little mention on your videos to tell it's not CGI (real life/world footage or something), it might add to the impact and make it tiktok ready. Speaking of tiktok, might be an interesting platform for your videos.

[dmix]

This seems much safer than most autonomous drones I've seen (or planes/helicopters). I hope this works out.

Having a bunch of them in the air in a constant cycle synced with the warehouse could compensate for the lost speed and could result in more distributed last mile centers. So package delivery is closer to ordering time, rather than sitting in queued bunches.

[Benclaman]

This is exactly where we think the big market opportunity is!

[ascales]

I think the concept is awesome, and I'm excited to see it, but it raises so many questions about how this is going to work. First question that comes to mind is how are you going to handle weather- and not just crazy storms, but heat and pressure too. Blimps/semi-rigid airships face a less than ideal operating window, and while ballonets and ballast can help manage the buoyancy of the ship, inevitably you'll have to vent helium. How are you going to approach the infrastructure the drones are going to need to stay topped up on helium and ballast, and how are you going to approach emergency situations where you end up outside of the operating window of the aircraft?

[Benclaman]

We anticipate these will have operating bases with lifting gas storage tanks, hangars, tiedowns, etc. The hybrid design we're using doesn't need ballast because the total vehicle mass is heavier than air. In emergencies, we would land them in a field or on water for recovery when conditions improve, or fly to an area with better weather.

[plafl]

Very nice. I have somewhere the book Airship Technology, which I bought when I was curious about the possibility of blimp drones (I was an aerospace engineer some time ago).

I'm glad you are considering smaller blimps, I think previous projects have been too ambitious. Since I have worked on drone navigation I'm curious about your approach in that regard and how you are going to attain autonomy and get it certified. If you manage to get it a completely autonomous and certified that alone will be an asset even if you pivot away from blimps! Are you going to use alternatives to GPS? GPS is very precise when it works but I doubt you can get certification based on that alone.

[sirtimbly]

I can't stop thinking about this. Logistic systems that utilize heli-stats and other drones for various flexible and inconvenient legs of the route seem incredibly powerful to replace trucks and small planes. Automation will change everything.

[walrus01]

What are your thoughts on using gasoline or diesel and a free-piston linear generator to achieve much better watt-hour/kg ratio (as compared to li-ion batteries), without all of the gas handling and complexity of a hydrogen fuel cell setup?

[joefigura]

We think we're starting at about the right time to skip straight to aviation hydrogen. Several companies are working on fuel cells and infrastructure specifically for aviation. We're starting with the battery version, and by the time we deploy the hydrogen version in the middle of the decade we expect the cost to have come down a lot.

If we're successful, these airships will be flying for decades to come. The extreme weather this summer and the recent IPCC report has driven home how important it is for new forms of transportation to be zero emission from the beginning.

[EMM_386]

> and can take off and land in inclement weather

What kind of inclement weather are we talking about?

Aircraft have to deal with some really inclement weather. METARs like 12026G41. You mention you are testing in Alaska, which is infamous for this.

How much of a problem will this be?

[Benclaman]

The inclement weather where our airships have the biggest advantage is in fog or limited visibility due to autonomy hardware/software in geographies with traditionally VFR approaches. Based on our experiences flying our current prototype, the full size airship should be able to take-off and land in wind speeds of 25-30 kts.

[Jabbles]

I don't understand how this could lift 650lb:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=20ft+*+3ft+*+3ft+*+2+*...

= 28 lbs (13 kg)

[joefigura]

You're right, 650 lbs is the full scale version. The current prototype carries 0-10 lbs, depending on battery load. Edited the post to make that a bit clearer.