Ask HN: I'm So Lonely

[DevToRecruiter]

I don't know if this is the right place for this but here are my stats. I'm a 32yo male, divorced with 2 kids whom I have little access to at the moment. My childhood friendships have withered, my divorce left me untrusting of women (at least for now). I work alone and don't have many opportunities to meet new people organically.

The thing is I don't even like hanging out with people most of the time but I get into this space where it feels like a biological necessity.

Does anyone have any tips on how to give myself attention? Or, in other words, how can I learn to be alone without feeling lonely? I feel like I need this lifeskill in order to proceed in my life.

I have a pattern of loneliness pushing me into making very foolish decisions.

[tomcam]

> I have a pattern of loneliness pushing me into making very foolish decisions

That’s pretty unusual self awareness. Respect. Glad you’re asking for help.

Let me proffer some of the obvious suggestions: D&D type of gaming (not for me but my adult child has met many great people that way), going to the gym, yoga class, chamber of commerce, get involved with a charity that means something to you, start going to church.

Try talking to people but when I say talking I really mean listening with all your heart, and being interested in them. Everyone has a story. If you’re genuinely interested, they will reveal everything within a few minutes. my kids make gentle fun of me for interviewing people, but I just like to listen to what people are really saying and respond by learning more about them. (If you are sincere it will incidentally help you enormously with women.)

A slightly less obvious one: get really good at something. When I do this I shoot to be better than about 80% of people, which you can usually do with raw work and without requiring some kind of genetic superiority. If you do it right the process is rewarding, and the outcome is also rewarding. Get fluent at a challenging language like Chinese or Arabic? Work out enough to get fairly ripped? Give away something great on GitHub? You’re a recruiter if your username applies, and maybe just focus on making a lot of money? That sounds shallow and you don’t have to take it very seriously, but I have learned that getting better than most people at some kind of lucrative or socially valued skill just helped me enormously, and you can you can usually do that simply by working hard and with common sense. The reason I harp on this angle is that when you’re pretty darn good at something, it attracts people. And getting good at something usually requires that you take on multiple topics well at once, which makes you feel better about yourself.

You can reach out to me via the email address in my profile and we can chat if you want. I have no agenda but I’m a decent listener.

[DevToRecruiter]

Thanks for the detailed response and the kind offer. I appreciate this advice especially the less obvious piece. The typical (hobbies, hang our in public places etc.) advice just haste historically worked for me however throwing myself into my business and keeping it as my number one goal has actually helped decrease my loneliness substantially. I didn't notice until you mentioned it but I vacillate between being ok with letting money driving me and feeling like above that nonsense. I'm currently in an "I'm above that" mode, which has allowed my mind has wander and loneliness to grow. Thanks for pointing this out, I appreciate it.

[pavlov]

I’m really good at something and still suffer from devastating cosmic loneliness.

Don’t expect that putting 10,000 hours into something will solve any of your social issues.

[gzer0]

I just want to say, you are incredibly talented at your articulation of words and overall sentiment. I appreciate your comment.

[hdjjhhvvhga]

> going to the gym

I know this is anecdata but for me going to the gym is great but is an antithesis of a place when you make new relationships. I was going to a gym and a swimming pool for a couple of years and I met zero new people - practically no any discussions except an occasional "Hi!".

[throwaway5486nv]

> start going to church

There are much better ways to beat loneliness. This only creates problem not just to the individual but to the society. Less religion is better.

[girvo]

> going to the gym

Not that it matters, but I've never managed to make friends going to the gym. Still love going of course and its worth doing, but at least for me and the gym I go to, its not really a social space.

[bckr]

I don't suggest you try to adapt to being alone so much. I suggest you get more people around you.

1. Use your health insurance to get a therapist. This is a good outlet and can make you more socially attractive since you won't be carrying around as much unspoken weight.

2. Work really hard to get more people around you. The world is opening up after Omicron. Be resourceful. Make a list of all the various in-person social outlets you can find and start going to them.

3. Get "How to Win Friends and Influence People" on Audible and listen to that repeatedly until you've grokked it.

4. Open yourself up to being friends with people you might not think you could be friends with. Right now you're in need--don't be too picky, within reason.

I believe in you. You can get more people in your life.

[DevToRecruiter]

Thanks for the kind words. The resistance I'm up against is that I feel like I'm just using people to alleviate the loneliness. It feels manipulative and inauthentic. Like I'm putting on a show in order to attract companionship. Thats why i want to learn how to be alone without being lonely, it frees me up to connect authentically.

[silisili]

Changing my reply.

I was in a similar situation a few years back. I had a wife, worked from home, and all was well. Lost my wife(divorce, not death), was ok with that...but I went insane. Seriously insane. I was in an ambulance 6 months later speaking gibberish thinking I was dying.

I realized I both hated people and needed them, unfortunately. Being alone drove me crazy, but I still didn't like the idea of best friends and such. It's just not me.

Out of pure coincidence or craziness I found solace in FB. I made an account with false info, and added people all around the world, so I'd always have someone to talk to. And for me, that worked wonders. I found it so interesting South Americans, Africans, south Asians, and to some extent rural Americans were willing to be friends so easily, whereas most European countries or big city people were so guarded and asked why you added them.

Ended up meeting and marrying my wife as one of the 4 or 5k friends I'd added and talked to each day. And now, I have no FB, but I'm perfectly happy working from home as I have company(wife and her child).

[Volrath89]

LOL that hits home. This Saturday some random person talked to me in Discord. My immediate reaction was to type "Do I know you? Why are you writing to me?" But instead I just went with the flow of the conversation...

It didn't last long. After a few minutes I finally typed "Why are you talking to me?" and the other person just answered "Why not?"

It was interesting and I keep looking forward to continue chatting with her

[tomcam]

Amazing story. Congratulations!

[laurex]

First off, you are not alone in feeling alone. 1 in 5 Americans reports that they have no friends. The reasons behind this are not "people are anti-social or introverts," but more a result of living in a world (especially in the US) where people move away from their family, change jobs frequently, often work freelance/gig jobs where hours don't align, get divorced, and live alone (28% of Americans live alone). This is my area of research and my work at the moment, so I could spout off all kinds of stats but one thing I can say is that it's really important to not ignore your feelings here- loneliness is like physical pain letting us know our needs are not being met.

To find a sense of belonging, you need 2 things. One is frequent positive interaction and the other is ongoing relationships where you feel cared about.

Our technology to date has worked against us here.

My recommendation is to find a community that you can start to interact with regularly. There are many that will welcome you, but also know it will take time before you start feeling like you belong- and just try to stick with it while it's uncomfortable.

Some ideas: 12-step programs, there are ones like Al-anon or CoDA where you don't have to have any substance issues yourself and deal more with relationships. Communities around people you admire, like Patreon communities that surround a particular artist or thought-leader. Or potentially Meetups, if they meet more regularly than once a month. Meditation groups or other spiritual communities tend to be fairly welcoming as well. Volunteering can be another avenue if the organization does something that is meaningful to you.

The most important aspect is that they have some kind of "meeting others" aspect and aren't just Discords or something where it's a lot of work to get to know people on any sort of personal level. In person or small video calls are good.

Above all, know that this is something that does take work, though social media makes it seem like people just have these great lives or you just need to join a Facebook group or something. But it's not impossible or complicated.

The weird thing is, the more you extend acceptance to other people in a group context, the more you'll find belonging in yourself. And give yourself as much of a break as you can here. You are noticing something isn't right and that's a really good self-reflexive step.

[csw-001]

>> The reasons behind this are not "people are anti-social or introverts," but more a result of living in a world (especially in the US) where people move away from their family, change jobs frequently, often work freelance/gig jobs where hours don't align, get divorced, and live alone (28% of Americans live alone).

I'd never thought about systemic root causes this way. Thank you for frame this out at a social systems level.

I grew up in a medium-sized town where a lot of people, and most business people, were part of social organizations like Elk's Club, Rotary, bowling leagues, VFW, Knights of Columbus, softball teams, etc. I watched those social organizations wither as our city grew exponentially (from a surge of transplanted Californians driving our local tech renaissance and enjoying the relatively low property values), which seemed odd - more people should mean more members in these clubs? The way you frame it seems to explain this observation though - so many people moving in, dislocating the job market, being so far from family, etc. A by-product was the the death of those social clubs. Or maybe just the death of the existing social clubs I, as a local, was used to people joining as they came of age in our business and social community.

And of course, I eventually moved for school.... So I left my local Rotary Club and softball team...

[beaconstudios]

All human beings need social contact, we're social animals. I think introverted nerd-types sometimes convince themselves that it's not true for them because socialising is hard work and needing to do it is irrational, but guess what: being alive is irrational. So even if you don't especially enjoy being around other people you have to recognise that you need to do it, as much as you need to eat and drink and sleep (another irrational need).

Try work from a coffee shop, go to the gym, join a co-working space. These are all low pressure spaces where nobody really expects you to be actively sociable but you can still be around others.

There's a fair bit of projection in this comment as for a while I thought I didn't need to socialise (despite actually being somewhat extroverted) and went through something similar to you.

[dQw4w9WgXcQ]

>> but I get into this space where it feels like a biological necessity.

You're not alone in feeling alone. A large percentage of people go through seasons of loneliness at times, and to a healthy degree it signals a need that is OK to have. Doesn't make it feel better in the moment, but I went thru a solid year+ of feeling alone after a big breakup.

>> how can I learn to be alone without feeling lonely? I feel like I need this lifeskill

For the vast majority of people, this is not a thing. Given you're writing this post, it's not you. People know by their 30s if they've got the loner mentality and are completely content in their own world. You're not weak for feeling alone, and it's not a skill you will ever master.

That said, loneliness can be exacerbated by things like shame/guilt that needs healing, poor sleep, excess stress, underlying health conditions, "winter blues", social media, lack of success on dating apps (d-appression), porn usage (interrupts innate intimacy drives), abuse of drugs/alcohol, etc.

Have you taken the opportunity to change after your divorce? Get a new place, find new hobbies, maybe a new job or a move? Some of the loneliness could be you're not listening to yourself asking for the change you really need. Loneliness is always a signal for connection - to connect with yourself, God, others, etc.

>> I have a pattern of loneliness pushing me into making very foolish decisions.

Everyone is like this. The buffalo separate from the herd is prime target for an evening meal. Find your herd.

[lonelycuring]

You need to develop skills to become social and happy again. It's that simple.

You need a system. I used to be extremely depressed. My approach when I feel depressed is to write a "stop being depressed" plan and then follow it. My plan would start simple and get harder. I would start with my health, my appearance and my surroundings and then work up to addressing the problem.

I recommend you write a "stop feeling lonely" plan and try to follow it. Here is a good example of what I would do if I were you.

A template for a "Stop Feeling Lonely" plan:

0. Eat a breakfast of eggs and sauteed spinach with salt (something healthy) 1. Eat vitamins, Omegas, B-vitamins, minerals. Make sure it isnt a nutrition imbalance getting you down. Must be healthy. 2. Clean your room / house - begin gaining control and adding structure to your surrounding 3. Walk / go to gym / cardio - increase body temperature in some way 4. Make a list of 5 people, send them a text, ask to hang out / catch up / coffee / lunch 5. Try to have a 15-30 minute call with one of the people, ask how they are doing, see what they are up to, is anything going on? Ask for their advice, mention your divorce situation. Try to connect. 6. Repeat

I used plans like this to nearly always stop my depression. It almost always worked. The biggest hidden killer was the mineral deficiency. You would be surprised how missing a hidden nutrient or two can cause really bad effects. The solution is to ensure you are never running low on minerals.

[ALittleLight]

One thing I like to do for fun, but may be helpful for loneliness, is pick a slightly goofy phrase and say it to everyone I pass by. Something like "Hooo boy, some weather, huh?" Which I find even funnier to say when the weather is unremarkable. Obviously I don't say this to literally everyone, skipping people if they look busy or whatever - I do try to say my line to most passersby though.

I think there are two advantages to this method. First, it gets you over the inertia of not talking to people. You don't worry about an awkward "hello" because you're intentionally being a bit awkward with the slightly goofy start. Second, some people like to talk and will engage you in conversation. Most people will nod, ignore you, or say something like "Yep", but some people will stop and talk. If you do this kind of thing on a schedule you'll find the same people, talk to them repeatedly, and before you know it, you have an acquaintance. Push a little bit and an acquaintance could become a friend.

[j3s]

Offering my own advice because some of the other replies would have really harmed me.

Listening is a skill, but you cannot feign interest when you have none. It will teach you to be recessive conversationally, and people will walk all over you. I suggest practicing active listening when a subject is interesting to you - but do not force it. People will start to think that they can use you as a sounding board for anything, which makes you feel like you don't respect yourself - because you've cornered yourself by forcing yourself to listen to things that are uninteresting.

Sometimes you can find people who notice that you're practicing active listening, and they'll practice it back - in the real world, this sort of person is rare. When you find someone like that, you should notice them, and pursue their friendship.

Do not read "how to win friends and influence people" - that book is mentally damaging imho, and only helps to reinforce the idea that you must feign interest in order to win friends.

Here are some social rules that I live by:

- no feigning interest, it's disrespectful

- express genuine interest or excitement, always

- hang out with people i don't want to be around

- no holding back the desire to be around someone more often (LET THEM KNOW)

- tell my friends that i love them

- unless i feel a resounding HELL YES about a commitment, i do not make it

First of all, get a weekly hobby. Show up every time it happens for a month. the friends will come. Choose a hobby that's active - group hikes, bike rides, rock climbing, etc. Active hobbies bond people in ways that inactive hobbies do not, and will give you a lot of funny stories to tell. Take that risk and get yourself out there!

If that doesn't work, try a meditation group or church - contrary to popular opinion, you'll find that most spiritual practices really promote active listening, and help people become known & expressive.

[DevToRecruiter]

I really appreciate your comment. I agree about "how to win friends and influence people". It feels manipulative as hell. Can you expand a little on how to actively listen better? I feel like when I try this, the conversation becomes one sided and I have to bow out for reasons you mentioned. I feel like my chances of meeting someone that I can actually authentically connect with are slim because my standard of authenticity seems higher than whats typical/common.

[em-bee]

those are good points, especially the one about feigning interest. but i don't quite get this:

hang out with people i don't want to be around

why should i hang out with people if i already know that i don't want to be around them?

maybe you mean that you don't want to be around people that you don't know. that's an important distinction. if being around unknown people is uncomfortable then yes, i should try to deal with that, my approach is to find some reason to be there other than the people themselves. a hobby or some other common interest which allows me to focus on that interest and ignore the people until i am more comfortable with the people themselves.

[29athrowaway]

Join a meetup for people with similar interests. http://www.meetup.com

Twitch can also be good to hang out with random people doing random things. Streams with a small audience let you interact with people more.

You can search for local events in your area using http://eventbrite.com or others.

You can volunteer at an animal shelter, etc.

You can also get a pet. Just don't get a bird as they scream all the time.

[magicalhippo]

> Join a meetup for people with similar interests. http://www.meetup.com

This was helpful for me. I joined some groups doing hikes and bike rides in the woods around town. Found I could chose how social to be, be it chatting a lot or just along for the ride.

[andrei_says_]

I myself went through a breakup recently which exasperated my experience of loneliness, esp. in the context of Pandemic related isolation.

I came to understand that spending time alone needs to be balanced with time-with.

Similar to time indoors and time outdoors - if I don’t take my daily walk, I start feeling uneasy and claustrophobic.

Or, sitting still and moving / working out.

I call my body “the puppy”. It needs to be taken out, it needs play, it needs a “pack” - or it will get sick.

So yes, spending time with people is a biological necessity.

Doesn’t have to be in person. I started by calling friends during my walks. So I’d have an hour long walk and a 30-40 min honest, open, uncensored conversation about what matters in my life and what matters in theirs. Making sure to spend about equal times on each other. The result is feeling connected, seen, know that I matter to someone.

I highly recommend this - found the conversation practice to be an essential contribution to my mental health.

In your case, I’d consider looking for ways to spend time with your children. This kind of separation is very heavy on the heart.

As for how did I find 5-7 friends… I called more than that and befriended the ones who showed up for it. I didn’t mind being the one initiating for a while, or being turned down.

But eventually they’d pick up with “let me guess - you’re on your evening walk and need a friend to talk to”

Yes, I am, and you’re the friend.

[tunesmith]

Just a small suggestion that can help a little bit, a (legit) massage therapist. The need for human touch is real when lonely, even non-romantic non-sexual therapeutic touch. It doesn't have to just be because you've got a muscle pull in your shoulder.

[donatj]

I’m right there with you. My contact info is on my page if you want to talk. I am currently getting ready for bed but would happily get back to you tomorrow.

My friends all had kids and moved away and I feel… lost. My wife works nights, and I spend my nights alone. I don’t know what I’m even doing anymore, and with work from home having not seen my coworkers in two years… I am alone.

[ninjaa]

What worked for me was reducing my work hours and retreating into nature while strongly regulating diet and exercise and hygiene at the same time. The goal is to beat depression but the experience of it is very different from simply following steps. It's really about your attitude and feelings and willingness to change and believing a better place exists. Finding a hobby, alone or in a group, is also helpful when seeking serenity.

Once you beat depression, introversion and loneliness qualitatively feel very different. When you have depression you can even feel lonely in a crowd or even when you're with your best friends or family members. You just don't feel connected to anyone and human interactions become utilitarian instead of comforting and you want to scream inwardly even when they are outwardly "going well".

My $0.02 feel better hope you find some peeps to connect with and that you are ready to

[devoutsalsa]

Therapy can help when you know you're going stuff you don't want to do, but you don't know how to break the cycle. Cognitive behavioral therapy helped me a lot. One of the things I learned was that it's possible to feel a certain without needing to act on those feelings. For example, if I'm mad at someone, I don't have to yell at that someone. If I'm scared that all my stock investments are tanking, I don't have to sell my investments. And so on.

[badrabbit]

You're used to company and now it's hard to come by. It can be very hard for someone in your situation.

Two important things I can comment on that might help;

1) It's not ok, there are people who will tell you to adopt and enjoy your own company but that's like telling a hungry person dieting is good for you. It's ok only if that is what you wanted originally not if you are being forced to being alone. You yourself seem to be trying to make loneliness work this way.

2) Learn to get along with and to be nice to yourself. The primary relationship for any human is the one we have with ourselves. It is difficult to be a good company to others when you are a bad company to yourself.

The worst thing about loneliness is not that it can crush you (it can if you let it) but that you can learn to endure it and then it becomes your prison. It can always get worse and the longer it takes the longer it is going to take.

[zentr1c]

Been through the same cycle as OP.Its painful and sucks. Still after 15 years . I am over 50 now. Kid grown up.

Dealing with the lonliness from the kids was the toughest. If you cant get along with the mum. Accept it and leave the kids behind in love. Maybe write every now and then dont blame yourself. If you get along well you should keep in touch with them. Otherwise it will drain you and them of so much energy that in the end nobody has a chance to become happy. And to become happy is what you should prioritize on. Otherwise your kids wont learn how to deal positivly when they are ready to see you again.

On lonlines: A very positive strategy for me was that I opened my self again as a spiritual being after being atheist for most of my life. I was lucky to find a church community that I liked. Its is also a place where you have a chance to socialize with all ages not only your age or interest group democraphic. This helps to broaden your social skills. I recommend attentending a service where they sometimes socialize afterwards (Brunch together, discuss or have Coffee together). I found it extremly valuable to connect with older folks and talk about their perception of loneliness and life. Also christians teach to talk to god. So in the end your not alone anyway, somehow. Just try out some services and communities till you find one that you feel welcome and positiv. Open up to singing and worship without judging yourself beeing unauthentic. There are lines in the songs you can connect and others you cant. This can really free blocks and helps to become less judgmental on yourself and others. Ofcause beware of sects that just want money. On the other hand look at it like it is a service you pay for. Like gym, shrinks, alcohol etc. It might be the cheaper option.

Regarding women and other releationships... 1. Accept and learn to understand your needs and preferences. Stop blaming yourself. It's all part of the experience. You are ok. And dont bend yourself to satisfy others but learn from others. 2. Learn the game. There are some rules. Most important is 1. There is great literature about it. Must reads are from David Schnarch.

Enjoy the ride there is a lot to discover. To force yourself into "learning to be lonly" postpone it to after death.

Good luck.

[thepasswordis]

Church.

If you have never been religious before: go to a Catholic church. They exist almost specifically to solve this problem.

[gexla]

I kind of wish I could do this. I just separated from a live-in partner who won't let go and has been causing me grief for much the past year. Separated with another months before that one. Each time ends up being a lot of spent energy on something which isn't helping me.

I get into a bit of an upcycle when I'm alone. Get a solid routine where I knock out all the boring parts of life by habit. Sleep at the same time and wake up at the same time without an alarm clock. Get to the point of knowing what time it is just from where I'm at in my daily routine. Cook a good meal twice a day. Routine for work. My days just flow. When someone else enters my life at that level, then the machinery generally breaks down.

I live in SE Asia, and it's super easy to find a place where people are hanging out, drink a coffee, and then just BS with some stranger. I don't even have to start the conversation, as usually someone will start it.

Trouble is, I find there are things about close physical contact which can't be replicated. My (now ex) partner can make me melt on command. Every time we do the dirty, I feel like there's nothing I would rather be doing than that. I feel like I'm missing out on some important part of existence if I'm not experiencing these things daily. It's really hard to find the right partner in the right situation I guess.

[iscrewyou]

Instead of offering advice, I'd like to ask a question that you/someone can ponder to get to at least a partial answer: Do you have any hobbies that are creative that don't tie into anything in your life?

I am into photography. It's been one of the greatest reliefs of my life because it allows me to be creative without putting any economical pressure on it. I don't sell the photos. I just take them and try to learn how to be better at them. Through this, I've found some of the best landscape photographers on YouTube who just seem like some of the most humble people on earth.

Recently, I started programming after spending a decade browsing HN as a non-tech person. It's a creative endeavor because I'm trying to learn Swift and Swift UI while making an app that supplements my day jobby-job. I will absolutely use and I'm positive someone at work will also find it useful. It's creative because I have no CS background and I'm just coming up with the app how I will and my closest coworkers will use it.

Gym has also been a point of reference for me to stay physically and mentally health.

These three things have just been my go to places of output and reasons to change up a bad day or a monotonous week.

Doing things that are detached from your personal life for the sake of developing only yourself (especially creatively), I think is the best way to do it alone.

I know someone who paints for the sake of painting, someone who works on furniture only for themselves, etc.

Hopefully this and everything everyone else has said helps you out.