Having done the opposite (low COL country to Pacific Northwest), I can say I'm thinking about this. I want to retire some day. Can't do that without savings, and can't have savings here even with a reasonable salary.
Moving to upper Michigan next week (Marquette area). Visited on a break from SF during lockdown, just bought a house. Me before closing: "It's great, shh, don't tell anyone." Me now: "It's great! Tell everyone!!11" ;)
Not too hot, not too expensive, not too on fire, plenty of water.
My wife and I did this immediately upon retiring: Pacific Northwestern U.S. to Lisbon, Portugal. Early days yet (less than one year), but so far has been fantastic. Much lower cost of living, the culture is similar enough to be comfortable, and different enough to be fascinating and fun. Plus, meeting people from all over the world. Met a couple from Croatia today in the pet store.
I strongly recommend moving to a different country, if you can. It's a big, interesting world out there.
What's it like doing that as a US citizen? What are the costs involved? I imagine you have setup your whole life in Lisbon with a place to live, bank accounts, residency, etc... but then you have to maintain ties the US as that's where your retirement accounts are, etc.? And you still pay US taxes?
Thinking of doing the opposite. Moving from Madison, WI likely to PNW (Seattle is most likely). The complete lack of... much of anything around here is a huge driving factor. That and the political landscape of the area. If I was looking to raise a family (I am not), it would be much more compelling to stay.
My artistic homosexual brother moved to the big city. He is now living together with a Japanese expat.
Some lifestyles just can't be had in the boonies.
I think a lot about that "political landscape" part of the problem. It contributes to the brain drain that makes it worse. If you stay you still have a vote. You still have something of a voice if you want to try to make change. If you leave, you can maybe expect things to get worse in your absence (times everyone else who leaves for the similar reasons).
There's no easy answer there. I'd feel guilty leaving; I feel guilty or at least complicit (or worse victimized) staying.
I was in the Seattle area for about 10 years and recently moved to the east coast.
I don’t recommend Seattle. Skyrocketing cost of living, increasing homelessness, and progressive politics that are real communism with local politicians saying we should nationalize Boeing and Amazon.
Did I mention crime? It used to be petty crime, break ins in vehicles, property damage, that kind of stuff.
Downtown Seattle is not safe for a woman to be alone, and especially not an Asian woman. There are several recent cases of Asian woman getting sucker punched or beaten with a bat at rail stations or public transit stops.
The city looks the other ways. Criminals get locked up overnight if at all and get let go the next day. When you add on to this the insane real estate costs and rising rents, it makes zero sense to live in Seattle.
Couple of things about retiring early: pay off your living space and car. Don’t carry debt into retirement as you income drops. Have a pile built up to cover non-medical health, travel, repairs and nether kinds of spending. Max out retirement accounts to get some tax savings,
If you’re trying to do this in the US, you need a bigger pile as you need private health insurance as well. Figure 2-5k/month for this, especially if there’s more than 1 person involved. This added expense might push retirees out of the us if there’s no family ties. Watch out for tax treaties with foreign countries and be careful re residency and citizenship to make sure you can get the govt pension you paid for for decades.
My family just moved from Austin back to Michigan where my wife and I were married. We discussed other lower-COL areas but we had been in Austin close to 10 years and so have many ties to the area. Our choices were basically 1) stay in Austin and just figure something out WRT increasingly impossible rents 2) move back to Michigan where we also have a support system or 3) move to some third place where we have no support system whatsoever.
1 and 3 both seemed depressing, though for different reasons, so we picked 2. It's also a tough move, but seemed the best option available.
Sigh Moving to a (slightly) higher COL area for family reasons as soon as we figure out the budgeting. It's likely to involve finding a new job, but this seems like a decent time to do that, at least.
My family moved from LA/OC back to Cincinnati where I grew up. It's been outstanding for us so far. We get a much nicer place to live, a support system, and a great environment for the kids.
IMHO the telework revolution just destroys the value of high cost of living cities. There used to be a cool culture factor in places like SF but I feel like a lot of that has now been priced out, so you're just paying out the nose to live in a glorified office park.
Yes, I did this. Moved from the big apple to a small city to raise a family and spend my weekends fishing, kayaking, and skiing. I love the outdoors so this was always the right move for me.
Hell of a cultural change from Colo to Texas. Might not be worth the reduction. And when looking at a low tax state, watch out for non income taxes such as property. They’re the gift that keeps on giving.
Moved from LA to Berlin Germany in 2013, probably the best decision I ever made. What a city, it's full of nomads and the nightlife started up Thursday and didn't finish until most Monday mornings. Everything was better/cheaper with the exception of the government bureaucracy. Would recommend it for anyone in their twenties.
No. I have three kids, one just started high school, and they are established socially. I'd save a ton of money leaving California, but I can't put a price on the impact to my kids.
I'm out of here as soon as the kids are out of the nest, though.
I moved from Sydney, Australia, to France. Cost of living (the way I live anyway) halved, gained access to remote jobs from around Europe and USA - would recommend!
[+] [-] elipsey|3 years ago|reply
Not too hot, not too expensive, not too on fire, plenty of water.
[+] [-] reducesuffering|3 years ago|reply
Do you happen to be in this All Gas No Brakes video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbxwGi8bTO8
[+] [-] carlivar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jIyajbe|3 years ago|reply
I strongly recommend moving to a different country, if you can. It's a big, interesting world out there.
[+] [-] lbrito|3 years ago|reply
Income taxes are high though, and I'm not sure about health service, schools etc.
[+] [-] twox2|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] MomoXenosaga|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WorldMaker|3 years ago|reply
There's no easy answer there. I'd feel guilty leaving; I feel guilty or at least complicit (or worse victimized) staying.
[+] [-] ozzythecat|3 years ago|reply
I don’t recommend Seattle. Skyrocketing cost of living, increasing homelessness, and progressive politics that are real communism with local politicians saying we should nationalize Boeing and Amazon.
Did I mention crime? It used to be petty crime, break ins in vehicles, property damage, that kind of stuff.
Downtown Seattle is not safe for a woman to be alone, and especially not an Asian woman. There are several recent cases of Asian woman getting sucker punched or beaten with a bat at rail stations or public transit stops.
The city looks the other ways. Criminals get locked up overnight if at all and get let go the next day. When you add on to this the insane real estate costs and rising rents, it makes zero sense to live in Seattle.
[+] [-] jleyank|3 years ago|reply
If you’re trying to do this in the US, you need a bigger pile as you need private health insurance as well. Figure 2-5k/month for this, especially if there’s more than 1 person involved. This added expense might push retirees out of the us if there’s no family ties. Watch out for tax treaties with foreign countries and be careful re residency and citizenship to make sure you can get the govt pension you paid for for decades.
[+] [-] ElevenLathe|3 years ago|reply
1 and 3 both seemed depressing, though for different reasons, so we picked 2. It's also a tough move, but seemed the best option available.
[+] [-] gautamcgoel|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] khedoros1|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] api|3 years ago|reply
IMHO the telework revolution just destroys the value of high cost of living cities. There used to be a cool culture factor in places like SF but I feel like a lot of that has now been priced out, so you're just paying out the nose to live in a glorified office park.
[+] [-] bravetraveler|3 years ago|reply
I'm nearing the age where if I don't commit to owning where I live soon, I'll be renting until I can't afford it anymore.
Inflated metro pricing isn't worth it IMO. Give me quality internet and I'm set.
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[+] [-] carlivar|3 years ago|reply
I'm out of here as soon as the kids are out of the nest, though.
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