Ask HN: How on earth are you using your Apple computer with external displays?

[n42]

I own four different Apple computers -- a 2017 MacBook Pro, an M1 MacBook Air, an M1 MacBook Pro, and most recently a maxed out Mac Studio. I also have had in that timespan three different Windows desktops that I have built and a ThinkPad running Windows or Linux depending on the mood.

I have spent countless dollars on cables and adapters in an attempt to find the magic combination. I have read DisplayPort specs, I know every brand of certified cable. I now know way more than I would ever care to know about DisplayPort and HDMI protocols. I have tried 4 different brands and models of monitor. For one of those models, I had three of the exact same model. All combinations work flawlessly with anything that is not one of the Apple devices. I have all but eliminated any of these components being the problem.

Depending on the device and the day I will get:

- Visual artifacts like snow, lines, flickering

- Failure to support native resolution on any high resolution monitors

- Failure to support high refresh rates

- Forced scaling, detecting monitor as a TV and using interlacing

- Most reliably of all, failure to wake from sleep without plugging/unplugging; doing a dance with power cycling my monitor or device until it finally works, or just giving up and logging into my Windows PC because today I can't use my Apple computer

It's never all at once, but it's always at least one thing. In the time of owning any of these devices, I have without exaggeration, not once had the expected experience of sitting down at my desk and starting my day without fighting my computer to work properly with my monitor.

Searching the internet, I can't be alone. All of the problems I have, as far as I can tell, other people experience. And as far as I can tell, no one has an answer. I'm at a breaking point after ordering this $4k desktop Mac Studio and waiting 3 months for it to arrive. I hoped that, being a device that requires an external display, they at least worked it out with this one.

They did not.

So how does the entire professional industry working with Apple computers manage to start their day, every day, like this? Am I insane? Is no one else dealing with this? Are you all just using the built in display? This has been going on for YEARS for me, across multiple generations of devices.

[dev_tty01]

Sorry you are having issues, but I have found the support for multiple monitors to be great all the way back to a Mac IIci I got in 1989. At the moment I am running a 16" M1 MB Pro with an LG 5K over Thunderbolt. It finds the monitor and puts my spaces back to the right monitors every time I plug it in. It sleeps and wakes from sleep with no issues.

I have had Macs for over 30 years and never experienced these kinds of issues and have used laptops with external monitors (except for some random issues while running beta system software). I have to believe there is something about your software environment that is different. I hope you find the issue, but I can tell you from a large office full of Macs and my own personal experience that your situation is not typical. Good luck.

[n42]

Thanks for your anecdote. I'm trying to isolate variables with little success

Is your monitor 60hz, or a higher refresh rate?

[ezschemi]

I am running a 16" MacBook Pro (2019), M1 MacBook Air and an 14" MacBook Pro with M1 Max. The latter is my daily driver for work, and personal computing. Monitors: - Eve Spectrum 4k 144Hz - HP Z25XS (2560x1440) - HP Z27k 4k - Some old 24" 1920x1200 HP monitor - CForce CF015 portable monitor

All the monitors work fine with all the Macbooks. To my surprise, even the Adaptive Sync with 144Hz works on the Eve Spectrum monitor. Even the scaling at 4k is fine: 4k scaled to 2560x1440, which is okay at 27". The laptops are connected either via Thunderbolt 4/USB-C cables (OWC 2m cable and the cables came with the monitors) or a OWC Thunderbolt 4 dock (and USB-C or Thunderbolt from there). The exception is the 24" monitor, which is connected via DP whenever I need it.

Like others here, I found that Thunderbolt 4/USB-C works best. My setup had similar issues with waking up and connecting the monitors when I used a mixture of HDMI and DP. Since switching, no more issues. The switch was expensive though :(

The work-issued Lenovo P15s Gen2, on the other hand, has all kinds of issues with this same setup: scaling in Windows 10 is crap and blurry depending on the application, monitors blank out every once in a while, going from 60Hz to 144Hz is a flickering nightmare, sleep and waking up just don't work, ...

[afvictory]

I haven't run into the visual issues you mention but I've definitely run into a lot of problems regarding failure to wake.

Currently using: 2 Gigabyte M28Us (scaled to 1440p) and 1 Dell S2716DGR, all running at 144hz on various different Macs. One of the M28us is passing through the mouse, keyboard, and webcam.

I don't have any issues with the 2017 era MacBook Pro using random display port to USB-C cables I bought off amazon.

I did have a bunch of issues with the M1 Pro MacBook. I used it exclusively in clamshell mode and 90% of the time it failed to wake up and detect the monitors in general. To get it working, I had to continuously unplug and plug the cables back in. Sometimes this worked on the first try, other times it took 10 minutes of messing with the cables. I upgraded to using certified Thunderbolt 4 cables on the M28Us but that didn't fix the problem.

Currently I'm running a baseline Mac Studio. The biggest issue I have is that the display order changes most of the time when I wake the computer. Every now and then it seems to not pick up one of my displays and I have to unplug it and plug it back in. It's a little bit annoying but definitely not as frustrating at the M1 Pro MacBook.

[the_only_law]

> but I've definitely run into a lot of problems regarding failure to wake.

In starting t belove there's just some collective failures with modern laptop power design. Multiple laptops from different manufacturers have had similar power issues waking up from sleep states and many even went on to just straight up die, as nothing seemed to power up anymore.

[jmartin2683]

I’ve always used my MacBook pros with external displays and haven’t ever had these issues. I use a Samsung 4K monitor that I’ve had for a few years now, but even before that I don’t remember having issues. Max mini also works fine with the same.

[donohoe]

Likewise. Currently I have a HP Z27 27-inch 4K UHD Display. I just connect the cable (USB-C) and it works. I have adjusted the scaling manually for personal preference. No issues (even in the past with other monitors).

At work we also got a batch of LG 27" Class 4K UHD IPS LED Monitors (27UK850-W). Again, just work.

The main thing to note here is I picked these monitors because it only requires a single USB-C connection for display and power.

[n42]

Is your monitor 60hz, or a higher refresh rate?

[Goosee]

Any non-apple 4k monitor gives me an actual headache using macos because of the scaling. Windows and ubuntu on the other hand work with these monitors since they scale their os differently (I run at 4k at 150% zoom).

The solution is (unfortunately) to spend money on the lg ultrafine 5k or studio display. These have a higher PPI compared to every other monitor on the market. I run my lg ultrafine at native scaling. No more headaches and my productivity using macos 10x'd.

[egypturnash]

I’ve plugged a series of Airs and one Pro into the same 24” Dell monitor for close to a decade now. It’s been via DisplayPort, DVI, and HDMI. Right now it’s via HDMI through a USBC breakout box.

Every once in a while it will be a little flickery, or offset weirdly. This always indicates that I didn’t plug the cable in correctly when I put the laptop on the desk. Re-seating it always fixes it.

I use the laptop closed. Don’t like multiple displays.

Life is not perfect for me, the driver for the Wacom tablet on my desk never recognizes it when I wake up the computer, so I have to unplug and reconnect the tablet. Which is annoying given that I don’t have a mouse/touchpad/etc available on the desk. (I’m an artist, I use the tablet for pretty much everything.)

Dunno what you’re doing. I assume you’ve checked obvious things like connecting it with a guest account. And maybe trying the computer on other displays outside your home?

Good luck finding a cause, this sounds super annoying.

[hollerith]

What is the horizontal resolution on this 24" Dell monitor?

[rollcat]

LG 43UD79-B[1]; CalDigit TS3 Plus[2]; Mac Mini M1 and 2017 MacBook Pro. Almost every possible combination of TB->TB, USBC->DP, TB->(dock)DP->USBC, USBC->HDMI, HDMI->HDMI, etc with or without the dock, with different USBC->HDMI converters, with different cables - just works, getting smooth 4K@60. Use a good USBC/TB cable though, 90cm is max.

I've also tried the Mini's HDMI port with all kinds of very weird screens and capture cards, including an old WaveShare 7" 1024x600 that doesn't even send an EDID - that kinda worked too.

[1]: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-43UD79-B-4k-uhd-led-monito... [2]: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/

[skunkworker]

I have a caldigit thunderbolt 3 dock with my 2019 16” MBP. I’m running two monitors off of the dock with a third off of a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter, other than waiting for my Mac to recognize my displays (maybe 20s max), it remembers my layout consistently and works reliably.

[Bud]

Basically same experience for me. CalDigit TB 3 dock, 2019 16" MBP.

I use 2 external displays, a 27" Dell and a 24" Dell. Works very reliably. Dock settings, window locations, everything is solid.

Most of the cheaper docks AND adapters are utter crap, though. That makes the entire ecosystem hard to negotiate, for a lot of users. It's unclear to me how Apple can help with that, though.

[beached_whale]

Same with their USB-C Pro dock, that is TB3 but works well on USB-C too. 2x4k@60Hz over TB3 and 2x1080P@60Hz over USB-C if on another machine. It charges well enough to not worry either. But again, yeah that recognition time is terrible on the same machine mostly(2020 MB Pro 16" Intel with the 8GB ATI)

[rcarmo]

Zero issues here. I have written https://taoofmac.com for nearly twenty years, had multiple monitor setups (literally many combinations of many monitors), am currently at the “single ultra wide” stage in life, to which I plug in my Macs via HDMI/DisplayPort (Intel legacy) or Thunderbolt (M1 Pro).

At one point I had one 5K and two 4K displays plugged into a single machine, but now I just have 5120x2160 (or thereabouts) at 75Hz (it’s a 2018 LG monitor). And I share the same monitor with a couple of PC laptops as well (which struggle to match the Macs), so there’s plenty of switching going round.

[swat535]

I've always exclusively used Macs with multiple monitors (I even used to take them in my Computer Science classes more than a decade ago and use the monitors in the CS labs) and never had any issues.

Currently, I have a 27inch iMac 2020 with a BENQ monitor (whilst I await for my new M1 Macbook Pro to be shipped) and works flawlessly.

I even have my PS5 on my desk plugged into the monitor and can switch between the sources and experience no glitches.

I'm not sure what could be the cause of your issues but I don't think it's macs. Perhaps something else is going on with your setup?

[flemhans]

This has always been a problem with MacBooks for as long as I remember, with different technologies, screens, adapters/hubs, and MacBook revisions.

I just came to terms with having to re-plug the cables once in a while or whatever seems to be the workaround for the current technology's woes.

[teknodude]

I constantly run into the slow wake issue. I have resorted to the following procedures to get my external monitor to wake from sleep.

If in clamshell mode, wake external monitor first and then press any key on the keyboard.

If not in clam shell, press any key on keyboard and WAIT for the external to wake before login. I have noticed that entering keystrokes like password on the login screen somehow disrupts the Macs process to detect the external from sleep.

If none of the above work, unplug/plug the usb-c hub. Works 100% of time.

If undocking while in clamshell, open mac lid first and ensure it's displaying, then disconnect the usb hub. If I don't do this, sometimes the on-board monitor will stay black because it still thinks the external monitor is connected. When in this condition, it takes forever for the macbook to figure out the external is no longer connected. Holding the power button and restarting fixes it.

I use a 24" LG 24MK600M with a 2021 MBA M1. It's connected through Ugreen usb-c hub via hdmi.

One workaround that I had explored to fix the external monitor wake issues was to find a terminal command that would unload/load the usb drivers to "reset" the usb ports. From there, I could write it into a script with a hotkey and run it every time the monitor fails to display. I used to run a script to fix my ethernet connected via usb-c that would not be detected on boot for my Linux laptop. The script basically unloaded and loaded the usb drivers, which fixed it every time. Unfortunately, unloading usb drivers on the mac is not easy.

[easeout]

Generally I plug into one or two external 4K Dell displays, models P2715Q and U2720Q, with either USB-C to USB-C, USB-C to DisplayPort, or in the past, Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort.

I avoid HDMI ever since I once found I was limited to 30Hz at 4K, and DisplayPort solved that at the time. Today's HDMI standards are a bit hard to follow, so I have just stuck to what's already working.

The P2715Q needs to be power cycled from the wall outlet now and then. If your Mac detects it and sends it signal, but the screen remains black, this is probably the case. I've seen this with several Macs over the years, so I'm comfortable saying it's an issue with the display.

Coworkers have recently observed their U2720Qs occasionally failing to be detected by their 2021 MacBook Pros if they use the same USB-C port to connect to it after sleeping through the night. A reboot of the Mac has clears the issue, and I haven't seen it happen with other models I plug in the same way, so it's likely not the display's fault.

Otherwise, I have to say this setup has been quite reliable across several Mac laptops of different architectures, price points, and pixel densities; lid open or lid closed.

[sys_64738]

I plug my P2715Q into a Dell dock which goes into my M1 MBA. The Dell dock is DisplayPort to the mini DP of the 2715. I get 4K at 60hz. I also use a Display Link as a second display when needed.

[hedgehog]

M1 Air, Philips PHL272P7VU, all peripherals hanging off the monitor's USB hub. Works fine except for:

1) macOS doesn't support controlling external display brightness, a utility called "MonitorControl" solves that.

2) Audio L/R balance on the USB audio adapter gets set wonky periodically, it's apparently a common issue with external audio to the point that there is a utility called "Balance Lock" to kludge past it.

[monkey_monkey]

I didn't know MonitorControl existed, it's exactly what I've been looking for - it actually properly controls my LG external display's brightness and contrast via DCC.

[tzs]

What's the deal with 27" 5K displays nowadays? I really like my 27" 5K iMac's display, and when I need to replace the iMac I'd like to stick with that size and resolution display. It's a great DPI and big enough that many things that I used to need two monitors for I can do fine on one.

But it appears that the only ones actually available are an LG (who make the panel for the 27" iMacs) and the new Apple Studio Display. The LG model is something like 5 years old and costs around $1300, which is almost as much as the Studio Display ($1600).

I would have expected all the major monitor makers to have added 27" 5K displays several years ago and for the price have come down to maybe the $700-1000 range depending on the features.

Did others make them and then everyone else dropped out leaving LG which stopped development but kept the old model in production?

[wild-eep]

It’s also worrying that there isn’t a redesigned M1 version of the 27” iMac. I’m hoping they’ll announce it soon… would be a shame if they killed it off.

For those of us who like 5k panels at these specs, it feels like a huge regression to use anything else.

[woleium]

Vanishingly small demand I think. There is that HP 32” used for medical imaging which is the same age and retails for around 8k USD with a similar dpi, but you can't use it with a Mac.

[mjsweet]

I have asked a similar question here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31148924

Basically, I have resorted to a power board that has individual switches for my monitor on my desk. I switch the monitor off at the end of the day and then on again in the morning. a full power cycle seems to be the cheapest way of getting connected each morning.

If I don't my 'Mac Book Pro 16" - M1 Pro' will do very strange things, like a strange mirrored 1024x768 4:3 mirrored mode until I unplug the usb-c to DP cable and cycle the power on the monitor. I have also found I need to leave the monitor off for a good 30 seconds (capacitor discharge?) to get a connection again.

I have also seriously considered tinkering with a HomeKit power switch and some shortcuts automations.

[oandhjakk]

This post has triggered my PTSD. I had Dell tell me that their only monitors which were compatible with Macs were AUD$1000k+ each, and Apple tell me that the only monitors compatible with them were available from the Apple Store (also AUD$1000k+ each). Determined to not fall into this trap of paying $1000k for a 24-inch monitor, I tried a range of hardware to get things to work.

Setups that did not work for me:

- 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel), Kensington SD4600P Dock, Dell U2412M, Dell U2415

- 2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Max), Dell WD19TB Dock, 2x Dell S2721QS

- 2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Max), OWC Thunderbolt Dual DisplayPort Adapter, 2x Dell S2721QS

- 2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Max), Lenovo ThinkPad Universal Thunderbolt 4 Dock, 2x Dell S2721QS

Setups that worked for me:

- 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel), Dell WD19TB Dock, Dell U2412M, Dell U2415

- 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel), Dell WD19TB Dock, 2x Dell S2721QS

- 2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Max), OWC Thunderbolt 4 Hub, 2x Dell S2721QS

I do still get the occasional strange issue with the M1 and OWC Thunderbolt 4 Hub, such as sometimes one display will not wake, or sit at 30hz until I reconnect it, but for the most part it is an enjoyable configuration.

I suspect that there is a compatibility issue with the M1 and the Dell S2721Q/QS monitors when connected via DisplayPort which contributed to my woes.

[alin23]

My best experience boils down to:

1. Stick to basic “non-smart” monitors that provide a USB-C port

2. No hubs/docks, single USB-C cable between monitor and Mac

3. Use Lunar for adaptive brightness: https://lunar.fyi

From what I tried so far, the LG 27” 4K line has worked the best for me, with no video signal issues, no sleep/wake problems, good DPI scaling and smooth brightness control through DDC.

And I’ve used it with all MacBook Pro models since the first 2016 TouchBar until the current M1 Max.

[lamontcg]

I've got my main 4k Dell screen plugged in via HDMI. Then I've got two Dell 2.7k displays hooked up with this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33?psc=1

There is a little glitchiness but it is confined to:

1. the main display snows on startup very briefly every time so it requires a half second of patience.

2. once a month or so the main display just doesn't wake up from sleep and i have to restart the display, but this isn't a daily occurrence.

3. the displaylink adapter causes a "your screen is being monitored" warning message to pop up on the unlock screen which is ignorable.

I was running that on my M1 mini with 3 displays and on my Mac Stadium.

That might not be sufficiently pro-level enough for some, but I'm able to game on the main 4k display fine (although I don't tend to play bleeding edge games). I haven't needed to upgraded the other monitors to 4k and mostly use them to park chat apps and music streaming and other stuff. If you need wrap-around 4k monitors for your 3+ screen Eve Online gaming or whatever it is these days then it might not work for you. I don't push that DisplayLink adapter terribly hard.

I have no special settings and the firmware on the monitors are probably many years old.

YMMV.

EDIT: I'm running 2xDell U2713Hm at 2560 x 1440 @ 60.00Hz and 1xDell P2715Q at 5120 x 2880 scaled to 2560 x 1440 @ 30.00Hz. Wonder if that 30Hz is why subnautica looks a little choppy, I figured it was doing well just to be playing under Rosetta at all.

[warrenm]

Am I the only one here who never has his Windows laptops reconnect to external displays in the orientation and arrangement he tells it?

For 20+y, I've never had external monitors reliably stay where I tell them with Windows (every version of Windows I've had issues with: 2k, XP, 2k3, 7, 2k8, 2k12, 10 (didn't own/use ME, Vista, or 8/8.1)

Yet when I connect external monitors to my Macs, they always stay in the place and orientation I tell them (I do travel (until just before covid (haven't been onsite since Aug '19)) consulting, and would routinely use customer external monitor setups with my MacBooks ... eg - while connecting to a rotatable monitor with one MBP, it would always remember that monitor in portrait mode, while I could connect to another monitor in landscape, and it'd remember that monitor that way)

Compare that to the customer-issued laptop with customer-issued dock and monitor ... and it would forget the external monitor AND the location AND orientation every Dang WEEK I was onsite!??!!!