Ask HN: Will I Ever Recover?

[answerme]

Been working in my startup for the last 7 years. It has no failed and I am turning 37 soon. I am interview now but my identity has been shattered. I don’t know how to build myself back up. Everyone tells me it’s not too late to start again but I am no longer young. I feel so miserable.

[brushfoot]

I have this line from @alexwestco's Twitter bio in a deck of daily inspiration that my planner software cycles through:

> Currently at $300k/yr with http://cyberleads.com. Previously failed with 19 products.

Failing doesn't mean you're a failure. It's just feedback from the world that something about what you were doing didn't work. Sometimes it's product, sometimes it's marketing, sometimes it's behaviors in your own life, sometimes it's circumstances beyond your control. Every time something fails, it's a chance to look at those and try to understand what happened.

And sometimes what you realize is that you just plain don't care about what you were doing, and that's okay. That's a chance to revisit what success means to you.

I know it may not mean much in the immediate aftermath of what feels like defeat, but you did something few people have done: you worked on a startup for 7 years. There are so many lessons you can take away from that -- whether that's how to make your next venture succeed where this one failed, how to "fail faster" next time, or that you hate the whole startup scene and want to do something else with your life.

Just remember, what happened isn't your life's final verdict -- it's just one piece of the puzzle. It could be the stepping stone to a great 7 years to come. Keep your stick on the ice.

[gala8y]

> in a deck of daily inspiration that my planner software cycles through

OT: Would you care telling some more about details? How does it work, did you set it up yourself, how it's done? I am very much interested.

[frays]

Thanks. Cyberleads seems like the epitome of what a Startup would expect to go through, and its product also looks great. Noted this down.

[8vectors]

Contrary to popular belief, the highest chance of success, and largest entrepreneurial successes, come from founders who are 47 years old when they start their companies.

You are still 10 years away from the statistical "peak" to start your startup.

Yes you will recover.

This experience may be exactly what you need to become great. It's your choice to either hide from it and whither away in regret or face it head on and extract all the value it has to offer. Growth comes from painful reflection on our mistakes.

Studying Stoicism and this lecture series really helped me get through the failure of my startup (Which I spent 7 years building and then had to sell for $1).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

Note the lecturer is controversial politically now... but this series genuinely helped me put myself back together after my ego was shattered - I am way better off now (and more resilient) and years later building another company which is doing great so far.

[raffraffraff]

47? This is my year. And in a recession. Best time to start, right?

[elforce002]

I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing it. I thought I was pass that peak (35), hehe.

[skinnymuch]

[flagged]

[bmitc]

You're not young but you're not really old either at 37, and it's not like there's anything wrong with getting older. Getting older has its benefits in that you have enough experience to not waste your time with things that don't matter. So it's a positive.

> I am interview now but my identity has been shattered.

You are not your work or what you do or what you have or haven't accomplished. You are you, and it's your relationships with yourself, people, family, friends, etc. that matter.

> Everyone tells me it’s not too late to start again

You aren't starting again. You are simply transitioning and growing. Nothing to be ashamed of there. In many ways, many would like to have a clean slate, and you've got a good excuse. Haha.

I recommend seeing a therapist. Just like how a student going to a professor to ask questions about something they're stumped on suddenly realizes the answer to their own question by merely saying it out loud, one can have the same experience with life questions and problems and a therapist. And if you don't answer your own questions, the therapist is there to help you answer them, either by providing answers or finding them with you. Friends, family, and strangers can only help so much. A therapist is paid to help you, and they are trained in the art.

Pick up a hobby or do exercise. Even better if you join club or organization that provides those things.

[djhaskin987]

You are not your job. You never were. Every single person on this planet has intrinsic worth that has nothing to do with what they do or how they think. You are important regardless of where you have worked.

I often find the most painful employers and experiences are the ones that I gain the most out of in terms of development and growth. Not fun to hear in the moment but afterwards it's a gift.

[atwood22]

> Every single person on this planet has intrinsic worth that has nothing to do with what they do or how they think

What is it, then? It feels really contrived to say "you're worth something" but then not say what that thing is.

[Meph504]

My friend, I worked in a debt protection startup when the housing bubble burst, I was 35, and nearly lost everything including my car and home, over time I've built myself backup, and have found a new purpose, and life in generally back on track.

My story isn't unique, tons of people have gambled, lost, and recovered. It isn't easy, but it isn't impossible, just don't get overwhelmed, don't take it personal, and get backup and start thinking about what is next. Work the problem like an engineer would any.

Best of luck

[elforce002]

Thanks for sharing.

[w10-1]

Youth is horribly wasteful. Be glad you're not young.

Whether you work at Intel for 40 years or hop between jobs and your own projects, the story is the same:

- Find something that works

- Grow it larger until it fails

- Find something (smaller) that works

- ...

i.e.,

- If you want to feel more productive, take smaller steps

- If you need to go faster, take larger steps

The absolutely key issue is taking ownership of how your activities affect you

- If you read bits of news all day, you'll addict yourself to short bursts of new information

- If you relish people's attention, you'll depend on their whims

- If you meditate all day, you'll find the deepest peace, but do nothing

Right now, you have a long process of mourning all that you'd hoped for. It's best to do so deeply - to get it done. So:

- Write down all your faults and failings and how royally you screwed yourself

- Write each once. No need to elaborate

- When you can think of no more, you're done with that.

Now you have X time in the bank. How do you want to spend it?

Remember: if you read news or seek customers or write books, you will become the reflection of that activity: hyper-intellectual, a pleaser, a ruminator...

So, to make something of yourself, do what will make you what you want to be.

Above all, DON'T act out of misery to just make yourself feel better. DON'T try to "build yourself back up". i.e., Don't let your past define you.

That's the essence of freedom

[gameshot911]

It's very normal to have multiple identities/modes/stages of life, but we only begin to appreciate this after we've been through a couple (aka with age). In the beginning our first identity or two is all we've ever known, so its loss is extremely scary and feels catastrophic.

I felt the same way after leaving my 1st job of 10 years out of college. It was like mourning a death. I was "an employee at X", I was good at it, I liked it. So it was so very worrying, frightful, and confusing when that season of life began to pass, and I was no longer happy with what up to that point had been everything I had been looking for.

Some resources you may find interesting:

[1] On average, friendships last about 7 years (indirectly suggesting that WE tend to change in identities every 7 years or so) - https://mwfseekingbff.com/2012/11/07/friendship-the-seven-ye...

[2] Transitions: Making Sense Of Life's Changes by William Bridges - A great book on the transitions of life, and how society today tries to rush through them, but they are deeply important and must be given the appropriate honor, time, and space. I read this when I was struggling with my own career transition, and it was exactly what I needed at that time in my life. Only by letting transitions run their courses fully can you set healthy foundations for the next stages of your life (and the next stage WILL be fruitful, even if life is full of murkiness and confusion right now).

[rsyring]

Take 2-3 statements or other advice that you believe is wise and helpful to you in this transition. Write them down on an index card (not in your phone, not electronic), keep it with you and read it frequently (don't just recall those statements, read them).

Remind yourself they are true regardless of how you feel. Emotions are often influenced more than controlled.

Take actions as you are able that support or aligned with those truths. Regardless of how you feel.

Tell close friends and/or family that you are working to really believe those truths.

Then give it time. At least months, maybe years. Time heals many wounds. The process above will hopefully shave off some of that time.

[brianhorakh]

Been there, it sucks. Restarted at 37 after 15 years & exit with >100k in personal debt. Was shattered, now 46 and ok. It doesn't happen overnight.

Try going to the gym/exercise/running, doing code tutorials to build up confidence. Tech Podcasts & udemy to fill the silence.

Do not try to do another startup right away, the workforce has changed and you need to acclimate.

Employers care about your skills, show them you got what they need. As a founder you will bring a new type of leadership skill and initiative to any team, this won't always make you popular so it's okay to not alway have the answer or share your opinion. Enjoy checking out at 5pm without worrying about how to make payroll. Rebuild yourself for the next hustle, but give yourself time. You know so much more than you did last time you started.

[tmnvdb]

Sounds like your identity was your company and now it has been shattered.

Losing your identity is very scary. However, with time, you will develop a new identity. You will discover new joys and goals.

Try not to panic, the way you feel now is quite normal.

Have fun discovering the new you.

[fm2606]

I need to post this somewhere as I have written this out before here on HN [1]:

28 y/o graduate with Engineering Degree

36 y/o left engineering field, became firefighter paramedic (married with a < 1y/o child)

@ 40 started Master's degree in CS (online thru DePaul) (still married, 2 kids @ 4 and 1 y/o)

@ 45 graduated with MSCS

45 - 50 worked pt as remote software dev while a FT firefighter pm

@ 50 left fire dept became full time, remote, software dev

@ 52 start a new software dev, remote job with a major hospital in a couple of weeks!

With this new position they have tuition reimbursement so it is my plan to start another MS degree in August 2023.

In the link below I reply to someone's question about how I got to where I am. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204355

edit: formatting

[codegeek]

Think of it this way. If you didn't do this for 7 years, would you have regretted it ? There are lot of people who are stuck in their miserable corporate/shitty jobs and want to do their own thing. Are they really better off than you ? I would say No. You did something YOU wanted to do. Even if it failed, you learned a lot and should have no regrets. You did what you wanted to do. Many of us don't have that luxury or the guts.

[gigglesupstairs]

A bit of a cliche but every experience matters. Document what you learned in your journey and plan how you can apply this in sync with your skillset. And can’t emphasise enough, keep giving interviews. And learn from your interviews, refine your resume or portfolio or presentation skills accordingly and you will soon land on your feet. One thing that always helps in interviews is keeping’s perspective that you’re also interviewing the employer. Be inquisitive, and show your genuine interest in a company not just because you want to work with them but also because they interest you. (And interviews are far easier than running Startups ;) ) All the best!

[kbelder]

37. Heh. That's the age where you just start being able to use the wisdom you've been acquiring.

[IYasha]

But remaining resources are below 50%. (

[charles_f]

I'm soon to be 38 and despite thinking of it all the time never attempted to go ahead with my own startup.

You're much more a success than I am.

What you are going through is grief, for a company ; so even without any more information, as anyone who lost people, I would tend to say: "yes you will recover". Here's one that I saw the other day and really resonated: https://everything2.com/title/You+have+a+sad+feeling+for+a+m...

[slater]

Yeah, you will recover. Be kind to yourself. The time you spend worrying about stuff you can't change, is better spent working on stuff.

[kopos]

Brother, my 2nd startup was 5 years old, lost a ton of money and time. Had to kill it and pivot to a 3rd one at 36. This one is doing better, much better.

It is tough. But if there was no risk involved in doing a startup wouldn’t every tom, dick and Harry have done it already? You put yourself through big risk for asymmetric gains, isn’t it? This pain is the risk that played out this time.

Just take a break; get onto the salary wagon for a few months; gain back your mental peace and confidence and then come back.

[muzani]

You have 7 years of experience now running a company with limited resources. The alternative is you worked 7 years in middle management somewhere. You picked up a very rare skillset here and have more opportunities than if you hadn't.

I think what hurts is that it's a form of death. It feels like actually losing someone, because you have lost a part of yourself. Companies grow faster than babies, and losing a company of 7 years could feel like losing a child.

Even if you go on to start another company, it isn't the same. It's like having another child or another spouse. It doesn't replace the first.

Whatever it is, you have to make peace with that. Go through the stages of grief. Do all the rituals necessary, which may be crying on the sofa watching TV. Just avoid hazardous coping mechanisms like alcohol and drugs. Death of an identity is necessary for the metamorphosis of a new identity. Don't try to figure out that new identity yet, but allow your startup founder identity to die sufficiently that it doesn't hold you back.

Your next identity might well be another startup CEO. But remove the old identity and commit to the new one. You want to be "Steve Jobs, CEO of Pixar" and not "Steve Jobs, former cofounder of Apple Inc"

[lkrubner]

I suffered through a catastrophically badly managed startup, back in 2015, and the experience was stressful while it was happening. The aftermath was uncertain. I had some rough months. But then I wrote a popular book about the whole experience, and it has been fascinating to see people's reaction to my experiences. Some say "He should have quit that company sooner" and others say "It's too bad the leadership couldn't pull itself together."

But my career really took off after that. As bad as the experience was, writing about it gave me a new audience and lead to some really great clients, and I've now enjoyed several years doing high level consulting.

For anyone interested, check out "How To Destroy A Tech Startup In Three Easy Steps":

https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/09...

[kabr]

Mourn the loss and take your time building yourself up, there’s no timeline.