Ask HN: Bored working for the current company, advice?

[waskip]

I'm tired of working at my current company as an employee mainly due to how the company is being managed for the last ~5 years and considering moving to contracting or another company with more flexibility (4 days week?) and maybe a better career path. I was a contractor when I moved to the UK to work for the current company.

Might be too specific to my case, but maybe someone out there has gone through something similar in the past/recently?

About me: from EU, early 40s, 2 kids and wife, over 15 years experience as full stack dev, based in the UK working for the same company for 7+ years in a stable full stack role remotely since the pandemic as the company sole dev/sysadmin, earning £60k+ ($66k) per year.

About the company: small/medium(?) size company (13 employees + 1 owner/director, ~£15m ($16m) turnover per year), 12+ years trading, I report to the director.

I feel stuck and bored as there is no progress to be made due to it being a private owned business with one director. A lot of decisions taken benefit the director personally instead of the company as a whole.

I want more time to get back in education, but working 9-5/Mon-Fri is really draining and when I finish work I just want to get some rest. I have 3 months emergency fund that could pay for the house expenses if I decide to leave.

There are no benefits except what's required by law (28 holidays, including bank holidays, 3% pension match), no education budget, no perks.

Perhaps I need to look for a bigger company with a better career path? Maybe get back to contracting?

Thanks

[orzig]

Getting a new job might be the right answer, but don’t leave without trying to drive a hard bargain with your current employer. You might be surprised at how flexible they can be, I was able to go down to less than 5 days a week almost instantly after asking for it, for example (though at a more interchangeable role at a larger employer).

Give yourself two hours to study sales and negotiation techniques, it is a worthwhile investment for such an important conversation (and would probably be useful if you went and found something else anyway). The most important thing is to understand what feels important, and what feels impossible, on their side. I remember being shocked that a former employer was willing to discuss a $10,000 raise, but not a single additional vacation day – that’s just how the HR software worked.

[rongopo]

I agree on the negotiation skill point! I always read a few lines of a book about how to negotiate before every meeting with my boss. That way I am seldom caught off guard!

[quickthrower2]

“yes i will take the raise thanks”

2 weeks later

“can I book 2 weeks unpaid leave…”

:-)

[exikyut]

Yeah no ~$66k/yr is just taking-advantage money, your "quiet when being paid enough" beeper should be going off so loudly right now the people in the buildings next door are wondering if there's a fire drill or not lol.

That being said, if you want to retain the stability of your current environment, one way to mitigate the precedent/reputation hit of going "hi, pay me more plz" might be to shift the responsibility of the suggestion to a skills guidance counselor, life coach, therapist or similar position (I'm sure I've heard of more technically-oriented roles supporting this sort of thing, I just can't remember them right now).

If *that* person were to hear out your situation, go back and forth on various sundry details and then happen to hear about the pay bracket bit and flat-out tell you you weren't being paid nearly enough... well, you were just going to see them because you were a bit depressed (the circumstances you describe line up perfectly for mild depression), and oh no, this happened. Woops.

For your consideration:

https://www.levels.fyi/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29336234 - hiring a good EA/PA; a guidance counselor needs to be similarly supportive so maybe is relevant

[WastingMyTime89]

They are not paid $66k. They are paid £60k which depending where they live in the UK is an average software engineer salary. It’s low for finance in London but unsurprising for an industrial company in the north. You can’t extrapolate the US market to the rest of the world.

[jstx1]

- get a new job

- it's easy for me to recommend this because I don't have a family to support, and I don't have to deal with the same amount of risk/uncertainty of potentially landing at a worse company

- £60k is low for 15 years of experience

- 13 employees = tiny company, not not even close to calling it medium-sized

- find a new job first, then quit the current one

[onion2k]

£60k is low for 15 years of experience

£60k is the lower end of senior outside of London. It's not surprising at all.

£60k in a company that's making more than £1m per employee though, that's definitely "Fuck this" territory.

[mrweasel]

If it was just benefits, hours or something like that, I'd recommend talking to management and let them know that unless something could be worked out I'd be leaving. When you're bored however, and the company isn't that big, that's is almost impossible to fix. Even if management tries, the moment someone loses focus, then you're right back where you started.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about the UK job market, but across the North Sea, in Denmark, you can still more or less pick and choose, there are tons of companies lacking developers and operations people. Not as many as last year, but still more than enough that you don't have to fear unemployment.

[throwaway6734]

I was in a similar position and went half time and got my masters . The main benefit being that it allows me to get back into the student pipeline via internships and get an opportunity at a company that otherwise wouldn't have looked at my resume. Once I was in the door, I blew most of the other interns out of the water because I had significantly more development experience and was offered a job.

[newone2three]

Get a new job. You can get a contract job paying £500 a day quite easily in the UK. Do a 6 month contract, save up some runway, work on your own thing for a while, doing whatever interests you. Repeat.

[kentrado]

Is this is what you are doing? Please tell me more about it.

[indoorskier]

With your very limited runway I'd get another offer with another employer first. That immediately strengthens your negotiation position with your current employer, even if you have zero intention of taking the offer.

Basically start doing some interviews now. You'll probably have to brush up for those as well, and practice.

> I feel stuck and bored > Working 9-5/Mon-Fri is really draining

These two statements are contradictory imo. Figure out whether you want to stay in your comfort zone, or take a step in another direction.

[nkrisc]

Those statements aren’t necessarily contradictory at all. Doing boring work for 8 hours can be incredibly draining.

[ManlyBread]

If OP is stuck working on problems that are both hard and boring to deal with then I don't think these two statements are contradictory.

[plebbers]

I would reach out to some recruiters, with your experience they'll easily place you in a better paid and likely more satisfying job than what you're currently doing. It's good to switch jobs every few years or so anyway, helps stave off the accumulated boredom.

Good luck! Though I'm sure you won't need luck, sounds to me like you have a world of opportunity ahead of you.

[twic]

Agreed about using a recruiter. If you don't have a lot of time and energy to search, and don't have a particularly strong idea about who you want to work for, they can do the leg work for you.

Trouble is, there are a some good recruiters, and a lot of terrible recruiters. I had a good experience with Oxford Knight, and have warm feelings towards RecWorks, because the people seem nice.

[giantg2]

I was going to say just keep the job because the next one will be boring too.

But it sounds like you should look for a new job if management is that bad. Generally, a big company should be better for stability and benefits.

[bradwood]

You should be able to find time to learn more outside of your 9-5. Do a few courses or get a side hussle/project going.

> Perhaps I need to look for a bigger company with a better career path? Maybe get back to contracting?

Career paths are not the accountability of your company to provide. They are your own responsibility.

[quickthrower2]

Bigger companies might provide more structure though and transparency around levels and measures.

[saalweachter]

If you want more time for more education, but have too many responsibilities to spend a couple of years unemployed, consider focusing your job search on the education -- and in particular, university -- sector.

Most universities allow for cheap or free study for employees, and will be culturally flexible to let you take advantage of it.

[smarri]

I wouldn't overthink it, I'd start interviewing and see what you like the look of once some offers come in.

[_trackno5]

I would look at larger companies.

Tbh you are severely underpaid. If you are down to do some work and prep for interviews, you can certainly double that income with a remote job.

Like others said, first get an offer. Your runway is too short for someone with 2 kids and wife.

[tonfreed]

I'd play hardball. You have to remember anyone they get to replace you will take 6 months to ramp up (at least). You've got a huge amount of leverage there, and the company would know it.

[29athrowaway]

You can look for a new job, but be aware that:

- there's a recession going on

- many companies stopped hiring, they're demanding more productivity from their existing employees, and are laying off people

- there is a deluge of experienced, highly skilled people looking for jobs right now (all the people that fell victim to 10% layoffs)

- inflation is high, people are asking for higher salaries

- many companies can't pay higher salaries

[WastingMyTime89]

> there's a recession going on

Unemployment is historically low accros Europe and the USA. You don’t have to keep listing to big tech companies which had brain dead hiring policies for the past three years and are now scrambling to protect the value of their shares.

The employment market is doing fine right now for most of us. Most companies certainly didn’t stop hiring. Most are actually short handed.

[dominotw]

> - there is a deluge of experienced, highly skilled people looking for jobs right now (all the people that fell victim to 10% layoffs)

How do you know this. I still see lots of recruiters pestering me for a 'casual call'.

[kidgorgeous]

Jesus, you're getting paid peanuts. I'm a 12 year full stack and I'm frequently turning down low six figure offers.

My advice, go on indeed.com and type in "[your favorite language] remote". Take 1 hour daily and apply for jobs over $100k you think you would be a good fit for. You'll find out very quickly how in demand your skills are.

Good luck to you brotha.

[barefeg]

I would definitely try to get something new before quitting. But that might be easier said than done if you’re already burning out.

[6stringmerc]

First, don’t quit until your plan is at least validated by yourself and your household. If you are sincere about your reasons then you will get encouragement to make the change with stability as job 1. I know people who take the exit before having the landing and while it works for them it is hard on the people that love them who favor stability. It’s all very reasonable I’m the big picture.

Another option is to start some mental health counseling and get some tools to disconnect emotionally from work, then begin to renegotiate work conditions. Having a note from a professional helps to make your case you are doing your job but can obtain more flexibility for work-life-balance and overall health. This sets a good baseline for the next 20 years of your working career!

Personally I love a fresh start. I occasionally re arrange my furniture just for change. It also is a chance to go into a negotiation with a good list of real priorities that may have been different 10 years ago. Mine sure were. In the US in my field, the tone has changed and they want happy healthy vaccinated employees, and are willing to change their structure (more remote, 40 hours ‘whenever it works and gets it done and the team is good’) and the only way to get it is hit the market as a free agent. The last place I did a gig willingly underpaid me $10k in salary I have realized, and I’m angry at them for it but aiming for $20k more now and will likely get it.

[tinktank]

Have you considered starting a competitor to this company?

[asdfzalsd]

check out spacedleets.com if you are trying to interview prep and need leetcode practice (its free) (am the founder of it)

[dustedcodes]

Look for a new job:

https://keyboardjobs.com