Tell HN: Getting Ready for Unemployment

[_qyyd]

Quit a low-paying C++ job (which was a horrible mistake) and now being unemployed for god knows how long.

So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)

Some weeks have passed, I didn't find anything new. Have large amounts of debt and barely any savings.

I am exhausted and stressed to the point where I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out". Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.

It seems like I am going to be unemployed for a while. I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.

However, I know, I am not alone in this and god knows how many people have it worse than me. The uncertainty for me (and probably for many others) is really hard to endure.

So maybe I shouldn't be exhausted or depressed as I am right now. Maybe I should learn things and get distracted in these uncertain times.

Naval Ravikant suggests you to learn math. Math and physics happens to be a hobby of mine. Currently, (re-)studying linear algebra and analysis in R^n (multivariable calculus). Those 2 areas in math interest me the most and I enjoy studying them. Other than that, I like to watch physics lectures from Walter Lewin. Trying to learn some Japanese with Genki.

All that is "useless", but at least they bring me joy, and they distract me enough from this harsh economic reality.

On the other hand, I can learn something "useful" for whatever the job market demands of me. As being mostly a C and C++ dev won't cut it for me anyway. However, I simply don't feel like it.

Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now it looks like I need to come in terms with my unemployment and the fact that the world tanks right now. Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...

Signing off.

[kirkarg]

Men, I created this account only because I fill that I should answer you. 14 months ago I took the biggest risk in my life so far (I'm 30), I sold everything that I have in Argentina and moved to Spain where I don't know anybody and no connections with anyone. The first 6 months where horrible, I was reasearching all the pros and cons of different ways of stop existing because of exactly the same reasons that you have. I was refreshing the jobs listings more than 10 times a day in the 4 main webpages without success. Of the few things that kept me alive was all the problems that I was going to generate because of the "easy way out" (opposite of easy in reality), and the fact that I still have people that I love, although they live 12k km away and is not a cheap fly either (for Argentinians). The thing is that after hitting the wall over and over again I managed to get a job not related to what I was looking for but it was a job. Shitty pay,shitty shifts, but with good people mostly. I was working at the Madrid airport. That job gave me enough time to look for something where I'm good at and 6 months later I got that job but never, not even 1 day, I stoped looking for another job. We are all different but things like going for a walk, some small cardio exercise will help A LOT. And try to research what words do the companies use on their listing and use them on your CV, that's key. 90% of the time they don't have a clue of what they need and they just need a problem solver. Can't keep on writing as I am arriving to the office. But bro.... Don't give up, if anything, learn from everything and remember that moments like that will harden your mentality. In Argentina we don't usually say "good luck finding a job", we like to don't leave thing to luck but to hard work and perseverance. People suck, rrhh mostly sucks, learn their ways and get a job.

[thisiswrongggg]

>> Shitty pay,shitty shifts, but with good people mostly

I've come to the conclusion that good people is the rarest asset in any office job.

[exolymph]

> I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out".

Please don't. You have something to offer and if you snuffed yourself out, that valuable spark of human spirit would be gone.

Gently, "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work. Keep your chin up and keep applying. Get a resume review — I'm sure someone here would be happy to take a look and see what you can improve. Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in. And reach out to your family and friends for support. There is no shame in leaning on people; we all need help to get through the hard times.

[ksec]

> "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work.

I know but when you are desperately looking for work, along with multiple failures, 12 weeks could felt like 12 months. Especially with an empty pocket. I know it rationally doesn't make any sense but from experience that is how it felt. It was hard, especially hard when you dont have family and friends around you for support.

>Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in.

Yes. Waiter, Drivers. There are plenty of options, enough for food on the table.

To OP. I dont know much about US Food Cost, but at one point in my life I was spending 70 pence a day on food, or a little more than a US dollar. Washing clothes by hand, couldn't even afford heating in Winter. Barely able to afford to pay rent and food along with whatever debt. Something like McDonald was luxury. It was hard, but not impossible.

Just dont give up.

Dont FUCKING give up.

[kyrra]

During the dot com bust, my brother -in-law ended up being unemployed for 18 months.

Moving back in with family, if an option, is always a good path in situations like this.

[pr07ecH70r]

I am not an expert in "depression" although been there many times. What helped in my case were the short walks I made near town or in the park. This was the "pill" taken every day that turned the things around. Of course, if you really fill on the edge and "taking it the easy way out" you should definitely speak with someone! But try to take joy of the small things you have. Take it easy and slow and it will get better! Job rejections are always tough, I personally also am taking them way too serious, while in reality the companies really don't care. What they care is to reduce costs, and increase gains. What I did when I was in the same situation, I just reworked my application docs several times, until reaching a satisfactory quality to hook the recruiting guys up, and reduced my salary expectation.

Regarding the Cpp, man I don't know in which country you are, but at least in Switzerland, my country, I stumble upon thousands of job openings for Embedded development engineers every day. Don't know your background, but try thinking a bit more broader.

Bottom line, take it easy, and try doing something you love every day consistently at least once. Tweak your Resume. There some good templates/suggestions in the net these days. Reduce expectations. DON'T read news!

[achow]

I had my bootstrapped startup for 18+ months, which was not doing well, it was almost like being unemployed; last 6 months I was desperately applying for jobs without getting any traction.

What helped me at that time was Yoga (deep breathing exercises which is part of that was particularly helpful). Yoga used to keep me fresh and 'alive' during the day, so that I could continue looking for jobs without losing steam over period of time.

In the hindsight that single ritual (~4 days a week of morning Yoga), kept me going and now I'm at a good place, managed to recover not only from professional setback but also managed to recover from almost financial wipe-out during that 18-month period.

[gordon_freeman]

One of my friends was in a similar situation recently and, going for a walk in the park and basically just talking to friends and family often on phone helped him immensely. He also used to just let his brain trained by waking up early, taking shower and going to public library every morning at 9am and coming home at 5pm and just preparing for the job interviews there.

Wishing OP all the best and I hope he finds the job soon.

[Lapsa]

oh yeah... walks are great

[sumanthvepa]

> I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out".

Please, please don't do anything rash. Even a cursory review of your background shows me a person who has an immense amount to offer any employer. More importantly your worth as a human being is not defined by your employer. You will find employment, it is just a matter of time. Don't worry about the state of the world, just focus on yourself. Absolutely do something useful that gives you joy. you will be surprised at how interesting others find what you are doing.

[samsquire]

I would strongly look into your spiritual health. You shouldn't be thinking of anything negative. I was worried by what you meant by taking the easy way out.

This means doing some soul searching and deciding you want to know the truth of spiritual reality.

Look into the cause of evil and the source of good.

For me, and I know it's probably not popular on HN but Jesus gets me through each day. Asking for a higher power for help when you clearly need it.

[exolymph]

There are dozens of us! God bless :)

> Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

— 2 Corinthians 4:13-18

[plaguepilled]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread, so I'll keep my comment brief.

Your value as a person is not determined by whether you are a good programmer.

And.

Your skill as a programmer is not determined by recruiters and hiring managers.

If you want an actionable suggestion, focus on your physical and mental health first and foremost, and look to secure yourself financially. Exercise daily, sleep sufficiently, have plenty of daily social contact, and apply to jobs daily. Do not stress if your next job is not a coding job.

[Lapsa]

despite my desperation, I usually bailed out application immediately when faced with some "general psychology tests" or timed inside browser coding excercises :D

[oxplot]

I don't know if you've ever noticed that when you're tired, like really tired, doing the most simple tasks feel like moving mountains. They may make you angry, frustrated and annoyed. But you go to bed, wake up the next day and can take on any task. If you think about your current situation as "temporarily being tired", then you know some time later, you'll be feeling better. I use this kind of brain hacks all the time to snap out of spiral thinking. Give it a try.

> I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.

I am in a very good place right now and yet I do NOT watch main stream news, regardless of what it is. I have recently started to script away negative content on HN and Twitter as well. So, cut yourself off from news. That alone should lift you up quite a bit.

The world is just fine. It's your fellow human beings who can't pay attention to anything but drama and chaos.

> Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...

That's the spirit. Also, seek help from pros. Bunch of talking and some drugs can make a world of difference. They are not the cure, but a stepping stone, little push, to help you along the way.

[pfortuny]

No no no no:

There is no “should” or “shuod not”, you are ill and there it is, NOTHING TO DO WITH RESPONSIBILITY.

You need a doctor because you are ill. Of course, a friend who does not judge and knows something about depression would also help a lot.

Doctor first (and I mean a psychiatrist, really). Then: some legal help and/or economic support (can you declare bankruptcy? Is it a good idea?).

Meanwhile, learning what you can is good but: PHYSICAL EXERCISE.

Stop reading the news: they add nothing positive to your troubles, at all. You need help, not “information”.

Keep you in my prayers. I’ve been there, am talking from experience.

[nyokodo]

I know that stressed feeling and I know how it feels like it’s never going to end but believe it or not this is a big opportunity. You were in a rut and now you’re going to dig yourself out of it! But, you’re going to need to think differently. First, you need to face the truth that you matter infinitely more than your employment status, debt burdens, and past mistakes. Second, you have a lot to offer the world in ways that right now would surprise and amaze you. Third, you’re going to have to fundamentally change your strategy so you need to seek really specific advice about your situation with someone who can connect you to the right resources. Maybe tap your network for appropriate gigs, talk to a career counselor, a therapist at a local charity e.g. some Catholic Dioceses have free therapy charities, talk to a local Priest or Pastor who often help people in your situation and will know resources in your area. Digging yourself out of this rut is your new full time job, you’re the most qualified, and I believe in you! Good luck!

[Lapsa]

there's secular therapists too :-)

[Grimburger]

Have you considered applying for non-tech jobs? Unemployment in most western countries is incredibly low right now. If you have large debts that are stressing you out, taking a boring job and paying it off will ease a lot of that stress. You might also find your talents put to use in areas you don't expect.

[eloisius]

This right here. I make decent money as a software eng, but recently spent time with family and saw how much my little brothers are making in roof sales and low voltage electrical work (intercoms, led lighting, etc). Trades and home building in the US pay pretty well.

[oceanplexian]

You shouldn’t distract yourself. Interviewing is a skill, and you only get better by going through the process and failing. I learned this late in the game, but you should probably not interview at the companies you really want to work at first. Take notes after every interview. You’re going to be rusty. Sometimes you’ll be surprised and progress or get offers.

The other thing is getting physical exercise and diet in check is so important. The mind follows the body, if your body is active and healthy your mind will follow. While I like intellectual activities I do not recommend watching lectures or studying anything that’s not related to your job search. Those activities keep you in your head when you need to be social and outgoing.

[MandieD]

When I stopped working as an Army IT contractor in Germany, I went months with few interviews. Heck, I got rejected from a low-paid PC repair job, likely because the interviewer gave me a quizzical look when I replied that my husband was an engineer, and upon my asking why he wanted to know, he stated that “a family father of three needs more money than a single guy.”

So I volunteered at an after-school program where I was essentially babysitting, just to be forced to leave the house for something other than grocery shopping.

Then I took a part-time job as an English teacher at a big chain of language schools. That forced me to a) dress professionally, b) be places on a schedule and c) talk to the public. One fantastic skill I gained from those three months is a heightened ability to parse meaning out of any speakers who have gone to the trouble of learning some of my language. On the surface, this job was “beneath” me (CS degree from competitive American university, paid a princely 13 EUR/hr), but I really think it re-launched my career.

Finally, I had a great interview with an IT temp agency, which soon placed me in the ok-paid role that was converted into the job I’ve now had for 11 years.

Point of this anecdote? Along with getting the professional help you deserve, a “menial” job that makes you deal with people and follow a schedule will help keep you/get you back into shape for a job more suited to your skills and likes.

[Simon_O_Rourke]

> So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)

The problem isn't your qualifications, it's your resume and the roles you're applying for! Just look on the Who's Hiring threads here on HN, and filter on the ones that look interesting. Remember, first and foremost, you're applying for a job, it's not some academic tenure track or PhD program. It doesn't have to be that interesting if it pays.

Then, update your resume, and basically broadcast it widely, from maybe 100 applications, you might get 10-20 responses, and from those you might get a shortlist of 4 or 5. Then hit the interviews for these while preparing another "broadcast". It's simply a numbers game.

[Silhouette]

Spamming out CVs to companies advertising on HN might be a rational strategy if you work in a popular field like web development and live in the US. It might get you nowhere fast if say you work in a more specialised programming field and live in Europe, where there are serious economic problems, we're asking genuine questions about whether we will have reliable power supplies for everyone throughout the coming winter, there is an actual shooting war happening, and some countries are dealing with big political changes and the accompanying uncertainty. Job markets in many parts of the world are not looking so hot right now, even in tech where we've had a very easy ride for a relatively long time, and being aware of that and having realistic expectations are important for anyone searching or thinking of jumping ship.

Without knowing more about OP's background than they've chosen to share in their submission you can't possibly know whether they would benefit from adopting a different style of resume, building a more widely sought skill set, or simply having more patience and better luck at finding work to pay the immediate bills so they can ride out the storms that hundreds of millions of people are facing over the next few months and give themselves some breathing room to find better opportunities later.

[ugh123]

Expand beyond C/C++. I realized about halfway through my career that full time C/C++ work was diminishing and higher-level languages and frameworks were going to open up more jobs (they did). For me, this involved learning more web tech (python, javascript, UI dev) as well as Java. As a C++ dev you might want to also look into Rust as thats becoming more prevalent and popular these days.

Hell, you should just apply to a bunch of Rust jobs, noting your deep experience in C/C++, and see if they bite.

Good luck.

[freedom2099]

Are you sure? I have 10 years of C++ dev experience and I feel like a hot girl on tinder… have to constantly fend off recruiters. I have at least a an offer a week… I sometimes go through the interview just to stay sharp (I love my current workplace, been here for almost 8y and I am not planning to change anytime soon) and usually end up with an offer!

[abdabab]

Ditto. Java is like C++‘s popular cousin who lives nextdoor, talks too much and doesn’t like to take his trash out. It won’t take you long to get familiar with it.

[chatterhead]

You're desperate. That's good.

Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.

Desperation mixed with insecurity can seem like depression, but if you're really depressed, out of money and with limited prospects. It's time to go ask someone for help.

Alternative ideas: Can you make money on bug bounties? Can you apply to local universities for tutoring? Can you do some gig work just to chip away at the bills?

Most of our lives are spent spinning our wheels. What separates us from or former selves is how we prepare for take off.

[bheadmaster]

> You're desperate. That's good.

> Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.

I am fairly skeptical of the claim that "desperation built this world" as a rationalization for why desperation is good. Human actions built this world. Desperation may or may not be a motivator for actions, but if it is, it does not even seem to be the main motivator. Humans also build things because they want to solve their problems, help others, or even just because they want to build things for the sake of building things.

Desperation also leads to crime, violence, suicide and many other bad things that destroy this world.

[dangerface]

> Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.

Don't listen to feedback from employers when you are looking for a job. They can't tell you the truth without putting them selves in possible legal hot water so they just say the first excuse they can think off to fob you off.

At the end of the day the feed back from company A is completely irrelevant for company B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J... You just have to accept that it's a numbers game and you need numbers in the hundreds to find a decent employer.

> Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now

and now nothing? or keep trying until you get the results you want? Thats you'r only options, you decide which one you choose. You can see I tried as an excuse to not keep trying or you can just see it as the grind necessary to get what you want. You got a job in the past by trying but it wont work this time because? what? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, let's say you only got that job as a fluke it was a 1 in 1000 chance? Theres more than a thousand jobs on linked in but you'r telling us its not possible?

Im not saying its easy Im saying it's really hard, you have done it in the past and now you are making excuses for why you can't do it again.

[danbrooks]

Keep applying! It's very normal for a job search to take months. And it's possible that one of the companies will reach out to you down the line with an interview offer.

It sounds like your resume could use some review. Consider reaching out to friends and experts. Good luck!

[ghaff]

There's this meme that you get laid off on Friday, you send some emails on Monday, and you have a job by the end of the week. Not broadly true and certainly not at the moment.

But, yes, review resume and reach out. But also be prepared for this to be a multi-month process.

[comte7092]

Having been in your shoes and endured multiple very long stints of unemployment, I feel like I have some perspective on this.

A few things:

1. The roller coaster of emotions you’re feeling comes from over investing in individual jobs. Unfortunately, you don’t have control over which job is going to come through. What worked for me was to keep focusing on the next opportunity until I actually had an offer secured. That is, send in your resume, and then move on. Interview, and then move on. Don’t make any one job out to be the thing that’s going to be make or break, there’s anyways going to be something else you will find to apply to in the future.

2. A corollary to the above. Don’t give yourself too much time pressure. You don’t have full control over the situation. Having debt and little savings can really amp up the stress levels, but you will have the ability to work your way out of the hole in the future, sometimes in a very surprising amount of time. I hit the point where I needed to borrow money from family just to be able to pay my tax bill, and a couple years later I was in the best financial shape I’ve ever been in. Right now you’re just trying to keep your head above water, and that means giving yourself time and permission to do things that aren’t “productive”. Spend time with people you care about. Do things your enjoy whether or not hey lead to a job.

3. Think long term. This doesn’t have to be anything more than something temporary. You have a lot of time to invest in yourself and do things you wouldn’t typically have time to do with the added responsibility of having a job. Take the opportunity to direct yourself down a path that feels more fulfilling.

Happy to discuss further. I hope you get through this ok.

[deepGem]

"taking the easy way out" Please don't ever. I have suffered from similar thoughts but largely have managed to get over them. Can you possibly take some contracting gigs ? It doesn't seem like you hate C++ but just hated the low paying job. If so, then there are quite a few consulting gigs you can grab just based on your C++ skills, especially in the financial world. Please try reaching out to some recruiters in the financial space. Is this something that would interest you ?

One other option is this company called crossover, it's a real shitty company and they monitor your every move and shit like that but they pay reasonably well, 100K+ and you can get in if you are reasonably good with code. I wouldn't recommend this, but since you are under a lot of debt, the money can be a lifesaver.

Another option is with database companies that are still on C and C++. ScyllaDB, Aerospike are a few options. They are hiring and if you need a referral at Aerospike, feel free to email me, email in profile. I worked there.

Lastly, weeks is not really that long to get a job. Some of the interview loops even at FAANG companies last for 4-6 weeks. So don't lose heart.

[nurettin]

> Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.

Except those lines are scripted corporate-speak and have no bearing on reality. They don't care about you.

[Ballas]

Yes. The hardest part of a job search is learning not to take the rejection personal, because it is not.