Tell HN: The regret of parenting and how to handle it

[mustafabisic1]

Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting?

Parenting is trending today on HN and I loved the comments. It inspired me to write about a thing I do well that I never thought about before.

Coming from someone who had these feeling from time to time, but almost never ponder on them, here is how I do it.

I noticed this is true not only in parenthood, but in everything else.

What worked for me in parenthood and marriage and sports:

1. Nip it in the bud. As soon as I start thinking about regrets I go and DO something positive now. I did have times when I pondered past (but that was in high-school and I had enough of a lesson that pondering won’t solve anything) 2. Loose hope it’ll get better (I’ve read about a POW in Vietnam war, he was like the longest captive pow in history. He said the guys who died or were in the worst condition first were the ones who hoped they’ll be out by Christmas or other important date) 3. Find joy in obstacles (the more unique obstacles you have the more unique perspective and gift you can give to your children and the world) 4. Hang out with your tribe even if it’s only virtually (whatever happens it’s nicer when you share it and you see other people have it similar) 5. Think about the future when it’s a high likelihood you will look at this moment and wish you’re back (it might help you put things into perspective)

One of these five is bound to help. If you have anything to add please do.

Also, if you like the post please check my weekly newsletter for remote-working parents in my profile. I cover a lot of relevant things there every week.

P.S. I know I'm coming in hot with the post. Raw and unedited. The only way to do it as a parent :)

[guynamedloren]

I’ll add a slightly different take: include your kids in everything, starting as early as possible. Hobbies, errands, everything.

It will be challenging, it is undeniably more work, but it becomes easier over time and will pay dividends eventually.

It’s difficult to make the perspective shift in the moment, but it’s helpful to remember that the whole entire world is new and exciting for kids. They’re curious little creatures, constantly growing and learning. Even mundane tasks like running errands can turn into engaging, stimulating activities for little ones. The weekly grocery pickup or a trip to the hardware store are opportunities to explore the world and instill curiosity. It doesn’t happen for free, though: as a parent, it’s your job to engage and foster this.

I haven’t even touched on how rewarding it is to include kids in hobbies. My kids are under five, and partake in everything from hiking, camping, backpacking, canoeing and snowshoeing to woodworking and cooking. Turns out kids just wanna do all the great things their parents do, and will rise to the occasion if given the opportunity :)

The opportunities are there if you let them be there!

[jonaf]

Agree with this 100%, as a father of 5. I have 2 sped kiddos that are aseverely handicapped and even at 7 and 8 years of age they cant do many so-called mundane tasks. Also no one can or wants to watch them, including family. Also if you think child care is a difficult and expensive problem, try hiring one through an agency for sped kids. Also the prognosis is that they will be permanently dependent, so there's no light at the end of the tunnel. The only solution is to get acquainted with the idea that your life will never be what you wanted, and to stop comparing yourself and your career to others. If you can do that, you can talk yourself into committing to tomorrow. Not that tomorrow will be better for YOU, but your commitment to it affords a future for your family, or at least, 1 more day of future.

[Shyles]

I want to specify that mundane might be super mundane. My kids (1,5 years) absolutely love 1. emptying washing machine 2. emptying laundry 3. picking up toys to a box when cleaning 4. peeling potatoes with me. They will give me potatoes, I peel them, and they'll taste the raw potatoes and put them to a container.

This surely takes more time than doing the tasks alone, but this way is much more fun.

[lancesells]

I agree with this take 100%. I also think for all of the different perspectives the biggest one I try to achieve is "if you're not happy your kids won't be happy". So hobbies and needs should be met if they are really what put you in a better place. Babies and toddlers require a large amount of work and there are surely sacrifices but if you're miserable it's not helping your children and they will know.

[deltarholamda]

>include your kids in everything, starting as early as possible. Hobbies, errands, everything.

This, 100%. It's actually easier than you think once it becomes a habit. Kids learn by emulation and practice, so they will naturally pick up on politeness, kindness, etc. as you go about your day.

Being able to see things new with your kids' eyes is enlightening as well. You've seen rocks, you've seen all the rocks, but you kids have never seen that rock before, and it's fun to look at it together and share what you know.

I would add that trying certain kinds of new hobbies with kids is also great. For example, if you've never tried painting before, start with your kids giving it a go as well.

All kids want to do is spend time with you. They're not particular. It's cliche, but it's true--they grow up faster than you think. Never pass up the chance to spend time with them.

[sriram_malhar]

Best answer. I am happily child-free, but I love parents like this, and their li'l ones.

[schwartzworld]

Eh, there are some hobbies and kids that that works for and some that it doesn't. My kids like hearing me play music, but recording music requires several hours of focus in a quiet space. I can do a version of it with them, but it's not the same.

After my oldest turned 6 her ability to understand some things greatly improved, and I love that I can read books with ber that I remember from my youth. But I still can't read the books I would choose to pick for my own pleasure.

It gets easier the older they get. By the time my girls are 8 and 10, I'm sure that I'll be able to dedicate a weekend to recording like I used to, but it's absolutely not something I can do with little kids around.

[P5fRxh5kUvp2th]

hot take:

You are not your children, spend time on yourself, lest you find yourself suffering from the empty nest syndrome.

hotter take:

Not even your children want that.

[ShamelessC]

edit; nm

[Helmut10001]

Tipp: I usually go to bed with my 3y old son at 8pm. Then I usually wake up at 4am (or earlier). Between 4am and 6.30, I can do all my personal stuff, self-hosting, reading HN, trying technologies etc. We eat breakfast together and then head to work/Kindergarden etc. Worked really well and I totally enjoy the calm morning hours to slowly prepare for the day. That said, having kids is still the biggest challenge I ever encountered (I worked abroad, got a PhD, went to UC Berkeley and still, all of this felt super easy compared to a kid).

[gwd]

There's certainly a few hours you can grab for something; I'm sure the extra sleep young children need contributed to our survival as a species, or else few children would have survived to adulthood. :-)

I've got a side project I've been trying to work on, but there's just so much else that needs to be done: You've got to keep connections with family and friends, you've got to do your laundry and your taxes and your shopping, you've got to figure out what to do about schooling, and so on. And I can't tell you how many times I've managed to block of 3-4 hours on a Sunday afternoon / evening to do some proper hacking, only to have my son fall ill and have to spend that time getting him medicine or trying to help him fall asleep.

All that to say, it certainly is possible to have "side projects" other than your child, but as OP said, you really have to adjust your expectations down. :-)

[invalidname]

Pretty accurate. Military service does prepare you (a bit) for kids. Guard duty lets you sleep for 3 hours before your next shift. Then another 3 hours and that's enough. Yep, early childhood parenting.

Discipline, boredom and acceptance cover many of the other challenges of parenthood.

[bojan]

Any time I read a comment like this, I have to ask, when do you get time to do things with your partner? When do you do chores? For most people it's the evening, which you don't have, and in the morning you do your own stuff.

Or am I assuming too much and you are a single parent?

[muxxa]

I've never been able to do this as there's usually 1-2 hours of cleanup to do after bed time. And directly after bed time I have very little will left to do housework so instead the cleanup gets delayed til 9/10pm. (3 kids) Rinse repeat :(

[princeb]

my work starts around 5 am so my personal time starts at 3 am. One of my colleagues has two children a few years older than mine so his bed time is a little bit later- he goes to bed at 11 pm and then wakes up at 2am to do his personal stuff - running a minimum 80km/week non-negotiable. i personally get around 5 hours a day of sleep which is manageable but there are times that's not possible.

i think parenting is actually alright if you don't need to sleep. i have a pet theory that my son inherited my ability to get by on very little sleep and it can be pretty aggravating at times!

some hobbies are definitely no longer possible so if you are thinking of starting a family but consider the annual pilgrimage to tomorrowland or ultra (and all the trips ahem that go with it) mandatory then obviously, think twice. those i know who continue to do things like these with children clearly have someone to offload their parenting duties to- and that is something that you have to discuss with your partner before you move forward on such a huge event in your life.

[iLoveOncall]

That sounds incompatible with having any kind of social life, even when you don't have the kids around.

[hutzlibu]

I can confirm this. Going to bed with the kids and being fresh in the early morning feels way better, than tiredly wasting time in the evening.

[gernb]

I have several married with kids friends that somehow seem to have plenty of time. One is president of 250 person company. He also writes small games for a personal website. One of his kids is old enough to participate in the creation

I have another friend who's a manager of 70 people at FANG, has 2 side companies. 2 kids at home. No idea how he does it.

I have another who works at FANG and from his facebook he seems to have have time for personal projects, and gaming, and guitar, and photography, while raising 3 kids.

One of my co-workers has 3 kids and yet managed to show off amazing side projects every 2-3 months.

I know several more.

I don't know what they do. I'm single and feel like I have time for nothing :P But it's clearly possible.

I know others that find a way to do fun stuff with their kids. In both sense. Some find kid friendly activities that they'd also enjoy. Being makers together for example. Others visit all their friends often and bring the kids. The kids are great and us friends love hanging out with them.

[Gigachad]

Love my kids but man I wish i was still a DINK. Turns out being a parent isn’t as grand as I thought it would be nor have I found myself to be enjoying the parenting lifestyle or finding myself as a naturally maternal dad… I know two other guys who feel the exact same way.

I feel bad for feeling this way but i wish our 230 k income (now severely reduced due to wife working part time for past 2 years) was me and the mrs living in a penthouse overlooking the water and being able to go to the gym, do my hobbies, travel the world, retiring earlier, not having to put away $100 per week per kid into savings for when they are older l due to this f’d up expensive world.

Our lives now consist of being sick, stressed, constant arguing, being unhealthy, paying a shitload in daycare fees , tired, not exercising, having to buy a bigger car/house etc etc… the kids come first and get what they need and have heaps of clothes, always eat healthy etc but man I feel like I have aged about 10 years in the past 2 years. My wife and I are defintly no longer the same people we used to be. It’s kinda funny, sad and nostalgic at the same time when our iPhones randomly show up clips/photos of us pre having kids and how youthful and happy we were and the photos are always us smiling in one of our many overseas holidays without a care in the world. Fast forward a few years and life is completely different, not necessarily worse, but just different.

[UniverseHacker]

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting?

Single dad with a 5 year old son here. These are self imposed limitations that just aren’t real. For example, I joined a kayaking club when my son was 2, and bring him on kayaking trips about twice a month in a tandem kayak, with proper safety gear. And I am up right now reading on the Internet at night while he sleeps!

Whatever you wanted to do as a non parent, you can likely still do. Be creative, bring the kids along and integrate them, or make deals with other parents to share and trade childcare duties.

[tasuki]

Well done you - I'd like to hear more about your experience and I'd love to do the same.

(I didn't want to have kids and ended up being a single parent. The part around 1.5 years old when I was taking care of my daughter by myself was rather rough. Like, how do you even take out the trash and other basic things? Despite everything, now I kind of lucked out in that my parents are helping me a lot)

[badpun]

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting?

This is unnecessary dark. You will definitely be able to do those things when your kids grow up and leave your house. You will also most likely be able to do them much sooner - teenagers don't need constant help or supervision, and even earlier you can easily arange something with your spouse so that one of you can take a couple days off. 7-8 years old is probably a good treshold. Also, you will be able to engage your kid in a lot of your hobbies. Once you show them why you like them, chances are they'll like them too.

[doubled112]

Agreed. It changes but hobbies still happen occasionally.

7 or 8 is probably a good threshold. My 8 year old can be left alone for a little while and not notice you missing.

I found if the hobby needs you to commit a fairly large block of time to get going it is probably not going to work.

I’m introducing things to him, but he’s work adverse. Any time he realizes it needs any sort of practice or effort it is a hard no. Work in progress.

I’ve always seemed to need less sleep than most, so I just used nighttime.

However, there are quite a few activities that are frowned upon or impossible with sleeping kids in the house, like guitar or drums.

I probably wouldn’t kayak in the dark either. I’m not very coordinated and they’d never find my body.

[Simon321]

Oh only have no time to do what i love for the next 8 years huh? Sounds like a breeze! And that's the best case scenario, kids won't leave the house usually before 18-25 years of age.

[nonrandomstring]

I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in.

Paradoxically, that releases the door to new kinds of success you couldn't imagine before.

The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform.

Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows.

[smikhanov]

Fantastic comment, totally matches my perspective as a father of three. Not letting your old self go leads to all sorts of problems, severes your relationship with both your child and your spouse, and is a sure way to remain unhappy. I see a lot of this in new parent families around.

Original post mentions staying in touch with other parents who are in the same situation as yourself, and it indeed helps a lot — eventually everyone start chatting about things like children’s sleep problems, chickenpox, school fees, car seat brands, or whatever, which helps normalizing the difficulty you’re going through.

Trying hard to hang out with your old childless friends, on the other hand (if you can afford their schedule), is a road to hell.

[wesammikhail]

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are

All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major".

> The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform.

What kinda self-serving sophistry is this? I can easily argue that the world would benefit a whole lot more if people remained childishly curious. It is the moment you let go of that child inside that you die if you ask me. Stay curious, stay hungry and keep improving. That's just a no-brainer. The idea that dropping ambitions is somehow a transformative experience to strive toward is such a weird thing to say.

> Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows.

What perspectives are these exactly? this reads to me like self-aggrandizing at best. Are you gonna tell me that people can't possibly have an understanding for "what truly matters in life" unless they have kids? What about the perspective you lose by becoming a parent and giving up on your dreams? It is a trade-off you are making. You are losing one perspective to gain another. But the idea that "people who chose otherwise will surely find regret" is just laughable. How could you possibly know that? You can't really run the experiment N times to compare the results? I can literally copy the text of your post and make the opposite argument.

In summary, let me see if I got this right: expanding your horizons by constantly learning and _acquiring new perspectives_ is considered a childish ambition that must be shed in order to metamorph into a parent so that you can take advantage of your newly _acquired perspective_... How do you square this circle exactly?

[foreigner]

LOL I replaced my old worries and anxieties with exciting new worries and anxieties.

[bradlys]

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in.

All the parents in Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you.

Trust me - having kids doesn’t dissuade everyone from pursuing riches as you seem to claim. If anything - I see people stress harder than before because now they have to succeed and so do their children. The families who don’t stress as much are those who already had success - they already got their tens of millions.

[sfpotter]

Second this comment...

My wife and I recently had our first, and so far this is the perspective I've been trying to adopt, which has helped.

It's not like you lose your ambitions completely, but there are new constraints. You no longer get to indulge in the excesses of youth, but it's OK, because taking care of a new life is simply a significantly higher priority. It's a liberating feeling.

I was worried before having a kid that I would be so bogged down with childcare that it would be impossible for me to get anything done at work. But I heard from a number of people that after having kids they were forced to develop better time-management skills. This has definitely been happening for me. I find it much easier to stay on task when I'm working on something, since I know the time available is so limited. After a while, the impulse to experiment and be free-wheeling has diminished a bit, and I've had fun purposefully moving through things.

The impulse "stay up all night and play" is definitely a youthful one. People want to stay young forever, which is certainly one way to go, but it's important to understand that there are real reasons many people are happy to move on to the next phase of life where they give those things up.

[joshcanhelp]

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are.

Agree 100% by adding “can” in there. The OP’s feelings are very similar to my own early on. I still have those nagging thoughts now and then but I know now what to focus on.

Fact is, young children are thankless, selfish, and inconsiderate little parasites that could give 2 shits about their parents desires. The parents that can look past all that and see the little spots of joy, look forward to the fun stuff like sharing a hobby, and letting go of your original picture of life seem to have the best experience with it.

That perspective change is NOT guaranteed, though. I know plenty of parents who seemed to naturally have this figured out right away. It’s taken me several years to even just see the light but I’m getting it now. We had a particularly tough first kid but she’s grown out of a lot of those challenges and we’re finding it easier to find the fun stuff together.

[theodric]

So the antidote to wanting to do interesting things and change the world is to give up on your ambition, procreate, and raise a new generation of people to go through the same cycle of ambition, despair, and duty? That sounds like an incredibly bleak world to live in.

[markles]

This post is so condescending. You not only tell people their ambitions outside of raising children are childish, but then go on to exclaim how much they'll regret by not having children because of some advantageous perspective change.

This is worse than listening to the rust evangelicals.

[adrianN]

You go from worrying about your own success to worrying about the success of your offspring.

[asah]

So all non-parenting ambitious are "childish" ?

All non-parents will regret the decision?

Lol.

[benjaminwootton]

I used to feel like this. I worked and travelled all the time and resented the fact that I had to give up so much of my remaining free time for family things.

Covid forced a change on me whereby I was tied to home much more and started connecting with my kids better. And I’m very glad it happened with hindsight.

I actually feel like a selfish and stupid idiot now wanting to work (messing around with some new JS framework or whatever) when I could have been spending time with my children. Fortunately it happened early enough that it was still reparable. I would have bitterly regretted learning this lesson 10 years later.

Raising kids is hard and it can be a drag, but you are only in the thick of it for a few years, and you don’t have to totally park your life even during those years. Losing yourself totally would also be a bad life decision and likely bad for your marriage too.

[1337shadow]

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting?

All false. Yes, there is a time like that, but then your kids will grow up and will go sailing and hacking with you, it's not never. Also yes, you'll learn to live with less sleep, for a while.

Anyway, what a funny crisis, at times where money is god, where individual happiness is searched for through product and service consumption, people don't even know why have kids anymore, what a great testimony about our civilisation's decline.

[RHSman2]

I’ve been hiking, mountain biking and paragliding this week with my 8-10 yr olds. Since they were born I’ve been fighting the good fight of getting them outside and building my role as a giving Dad.

Nothing compares to having kids. Tremendously hard. I have lots of friends who don’t and yeah, they live the life but what they don’t have is so much richer

[Tade0]

I said goodbye to my previous life when on one evening in a restaurant in Italy I discovered that I just don't enjoy going places that much any more.

As for creative work after hours: I realized I was overestimating its importance to me because previously I would frequently elect to just watch YouTube or argue on the internet - I just didn't see it back then.

After a year or so since becoming a parent I returned to the previous rate of producing side-projects so it's all good now. I just don't have time to waste on those other activities, which is also a net gain.

[dspillett]

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting?

No, because I'm one of those people who makes every effort to not be a parent :)

(Not that I have a queue of people with any desire to partner with me in the parenting process ATM!)

Though parenting isn't the only thing that can get in the way of late nights playing with new tech. As I'm getting older, all-nighters generally are getting harder, my running has spun into endurance event territory which requires a lot of training time and sleep in between, I do some martial arts too, my parents aren't getting any younger and if they need/want some care & attention that bumps other priorities, …, … Not having enough hours in the day or days in the month is something most people have to contend with in some way, shape, or form.

[agent008t]

Exactly. There are not enough hours in the day as it is, how is having children going to help with that?

[oliwarner]

Why can't you share your hobbies with your children? Learn new ones they can share in as they grow up? Stay up while they sleep for you time?

You're right in that you really can't stay up all night in such a way that you can't parent the next day, and yes, that's annoying sometimes, but just getting older, having more workplace responsibility does that to you too. If you're serious, childcare options (sitters, nannies, etc) exist for most scenarios. I have friends who kept a pretty active nightlife through their kids younger years by paying people to be there.

Whatever you do, I'd suggest you don't bank on using one strategy. Kids change. What you can do with them changes. What you'll enjoy changes. I'd suggest you go with it. Lean into parenting to find the things you like. They'll appreciate it too.

[refurb]

I'll put it this way, I can't think of many activities that I might do that are more important than making sure my kid grows up and has a good life.

Cranking out really cool code? Nahhh

Getting that project at work to get me a raise? Not really

For personal activities that you need to do because they recharge you and bring joy to your life (e.g. kayaking)? Well, you need to juggle schedules and keep doing them. And when the kids are old enough you now have a new partner to do hobbies with.

[gorpomon]

One trick to parenting is the almighty ROUTINE! Don't sacrifice it for anything. If your kid goes to bed at 7pm 6/7 nights a week, that's not a routine. Kids can't recognize complex routines, I find they're all or nothing.

We implemented a routine of bedtime at 6:30pm and it liberated our evenings. The routine means in evenings one partner always has to stay in unless we call a babysitter, but that's a small price to pay for being able to go out, or stay in and follow your hobbies and passions.

Now, to be fair, we have a good sleeper (but not a good eater, seems like you only get one!), but routines of all kinds help, and I think they can help all kids. Stick to the routine, it pays dividends.

[hutu2011]

Don't forget, for many loving parents, the smile and hugs from your kids give you lots of more energy for life

[sethammons]

I've practically never not had kids. We had our first at age 15. I still was able to graduate university on time, teach myself to program beyond the cs minor, learn new technology, go camping and hiking, and even got a couple kayaks eventually to go out with the kids. My trick is starting my day before 5am, since high school.

Having a great partner helped, being poor as shit didn't. I did have to take jobs that paid more now (but still crap) and eschew jobs that would pay low to start but offer growth. I couldn't save a dollar until my late twenties.

[guico]

Everything that's worth doing in life will take a certain degree of work and sacrifice.

Parenting is no exception. And as others have stated, many people see it as the hardest thing they've done. I'd just like to complete the equation and say that it's also the most rewarding, at least in my case.

So the question is rather how to endure the hardship in the best way possible. Kind of the same way an olympic swimmer must come up with strategies to be able to train (ie. suffer) day in day out until they finally win a medal.

What I think is very helpful is:

a) To find activities that both you and your kids enjoy, and do those things (as opposed to just "watching your kids" as they play).

b) Find ways to still do those things you like to do on your own, and also for the things you like to do with your partner. This requires more coordination now between the parents and also with whoever is around and can support (family, other friends with kids, etc) but it's definitely possible.

All in all, in my experience, life is so much brighter and exciting with kids. It's exhausting, yes, but so is surfing and hiking, and building a startup, and anything else that's worth doing.

I think the key is to take control of our lifestyle and make sure that it is, with our without kids, aligned with what what you internally want to do (hence points a) and b) above).

[dctoedt]

Hang in there for the long haul. My (our) adult kids have turned out to be the greatest joy in my life, by a long shot — this, even though I've enjoyed a modicum of professional success and, in my late 60s, am lucky to still be healthy, ambitious, and energetic. Helping our kids to grow into kind, functional adults is the most important thing I've ever done or ever will do. I'm not at all sure I'd have said that when I was in my 30s.

[cercatrova]

It's fallacious to think that you won't have time to cater to your hobbies, as I have seen with others in my life. Perhaps the early years are hard, but of course you will have time sooner or later.

At the same time, this is one reason why I don't desire to have children of my own. I like having so much spontaneous freedom. The risk of having an unhealthy child is also non-zero, and well, once they come out, you can't exactly ctrl-z them.