Ask HN: Alternative ways to make money with coding and system skills?

[tayo42]

The thought of returning to corporate working kind of disgusts me. daily meetings, middle management bs, politics, bureaucracy... im sure your familiar with the typical complaints.

Ive realized I don't seem to have any money generating skills, the only thing I seem actually be good at is making money for other people.

So im wondering if anyone has been able to use their coding skill to make a living that isn't working in a business.

Things ive tried and thought about(please correct anything that seems wrong!):

monetizing hobbies - I see why people don't recommend this, im not good enough anyway. to old to go pro at sports, not good enough or have credentials to teach.

coding tutoring and teaching - i tried this on codementor.io, there's more mentors then people needing help, its competitive and doesn't pay much when you consider how much extra work goes into it. I also don't have a CS degree so it doesn't seem like I can teach at a school. Maybe there are better ways to teach?

bug bounty chasing - I thought this would be easier then it really is. i guess its like a whole different skill set, interesting as a hobby but its going to take to long to get good. and its competitive

make a company or sell a thing software thing - I can code up my dream ideas with ease, what i don't know how to do is market anything or get users. seems to be another skill that will take months and maybe not even turn out to do anything

freelance - compared to just working rates seem low and its hard to find work from what ive seen

If you have cool ideas or something worked out for you, id be interested in hearing them! Otherwise I need to get working on a resume, id rather not!

[alin23]

Building and selling macOS apps is a pretty good niche to be in right now.

I escaped my stressful corporate job 1 year ago and I’ve been living comfortably since then from app revenue only.

I’m making between $3.5k and $9k per month with https://lunar.fyi/ and the smaller apps I create at https://lowtechguys.com/

It’s not much for some parts of the world. But I’m well enough from this that I even took the time to build a small calendar app (https://lowtechguys.com/grila) from which all the funds will go to my brother’s college costs so he can stop working 12h/day jobs.

Before this I tried creating paid web services but none took off. I realized I actually don’t use any indie web product after 8 years of professional coding. I’m only using web products from big companies like Google, fly.io, Amazon etc.

Desktop apps on the other hand, most that I use and love are made by single developers.

With the ascent of Apple Silicon, and the ease of SwiftUI, this has the potential of bringing a modest revenue while also being more fulfilling than a corporate job.

In case you’re curious how the code looks for something like that, here’s a small open-source app that I built in a single (long) day, which has proven to be useful enough that people want to pay for it: https://github.com/alin23/Clop

[tailspin2019]

> from which all the funds will go to my brother’s college costs so he can stop working 12h/day jobs.

This is cool. I hope you make a bunch of extra sales from your (correctly) upvoted comment here :-)

[larsonnn]

I would love to read some blog with more details about your experience.

As a long time backend and full stack developer my brain is stucked in web services. Which works Well as employee but when it comes to have your own product you are playing against Google,AWS,meta and so on.

Maybe I try developing desktop applications too.

[mattgreenrocks]

It’s a fun niche. I’m making tens of dollars a month on my first app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audiowrangler/id1565701763?mt=... :)

[aosmith]

Don't put yourself down, $9k/month is nothing to scoff at, Nice work!

[bjornsing]

> Before this I tried creating paid web services but none took off. I realized I actually don’t use any indie web product after 8 years of professional coding. I’m only using web products from big companies like Google, fly.io, Amazon etc.

What kind of paid web services did you try, if you don’t mind me asking? I’m thinking about going this route myself, but I hear you - I’ve also pretty much bought exclusively from the big guys.

Any other learnings from the web service route you could share? Like what tech stack / platform did you use? How did you try to market your service? Can you see other reason (than not being big / trustworthy enough) why it didn’t work?

[tambourine_man]

Your apps and site look awesome, congratulations.

For whatever reason, the hero video at https://lunar.fyi/ makes Safari use 100% of all cores, Webkit.GPU goes nuts, WindowServer unresponsive… works fine on Chrome however. Monterey 12.5.1, iMac 5K, 27"

[tayo42]

This is interesting, along with the discussion it started below. Thanks! Im a windows and linux (and andorid)user so I'm not to in tune with the mac world

How did you find paying users( or just users? i see you have free trials and free tiers) Does the app store offer that much discoverability?

[solardev]

Paid user here. Thanks for making old-school but super-helpful desktop software!

[coffeeaddict1]

How do you manage the licensing? Do you use some library to enforce the trial period in your apps?

[xwowsersx]

Love lunar! I have my shortcuts/hotkeys configured and it's a breeze to switch between super dim, medium brightness, and full-on-hyper-bright-it's-time-to-crank-some-work-out brightness. Thanks for this great app.

[matznerd]

Thanks for Lunar, I have been using it b/c the native apple software wouldn't let me adjust light on my external monitor properly.

Also, I love the secret, extra brightness levels it allows on the main screen, especially when I am outside. Do you know if there is any risk of damage to the brightness by using it at the higher settings?

I once had software that me increase the volume of my macbook speakers and one day I was working and vibing to the song and pushed the volume all the way up... and blew a speaker out...

[zestyping]

How do you market your apps, and how much time and money do you spend marketing and advertising them?

If conventional wisdom is to be believed, it seems like the difference between building an okay app and a great app doesn't matter that much, because success depends on investing the vast majority of the effort into marketing. That's a big deterrent for me — I'm much more interested in building awesome things than hawking them.

[Brajeshwar]

Hey, Thanks for Lunar. There are other free alternatives but Lunar's Pro makes it easy for me to have the external monitor have some sane sync with my primary display.

[imdsm]

Lunar looks like it's quite extensive. (And the website looks great!) How much work have you put into it, over what period, if you don't mind me asking?

[deeblering4]

Thank you for lunar. I use it every day. The ability to rotate the inbuilt apple display has been a killer feature for me.

[mrtksn]

I see you sell apps directly and from the AppStore. What do you think about mac AppStore? The word in the street is that it's not growing and users aren't using it and developers are hating it because it lacks [INSERT FEATURE]. Is that right?

[jadamczyk]

I'm a fan of your apps. Huge kudos, especially rcmd is super nice. Use it all the time.

[cocoonkid]

The contact option on the site is broken. I wanted to know if grila supports ics imports?

Because if yes I'm gonna get it ;-)

[dqpb]

> I actually don’t use any indie web product

The only indie web product I use (and have used for many years now) is workflowy. So simple, so beautiful. Wish I invented it.

[joshbochu]

How do you decide on whether you should open source an app? What impact do you think this has on your revenue/profits/clone-ability?

[p2detar]

That’s quite interesting. Thanks for sharing. How did you go about marketing your apps and attracting customers/installs?

[spinlock_]

Pretty cool, congrats! Can you recommend learning material about developing macOS apps with SwiftUI?

[marvindanig]

building for app-stores is also kinda niche sorta these days. most businesses want to be on the web mainly with a presence the app stores. i make about $10k each month with Red Goose [1] with focus on the app stores.

[1] https://goose.red

[swah]

Supporting your brother like that is very cool! For me, the calendar app is not available in Brazil though..

[constantlm]

Just want to say that Lunar is amazing.

[lmarcos]

Thanks for sharing! Have you considered selling your Apps outside the AppStore? Would it be worth it?

[smhoff256]

Interesting. The code looks like the love child of F# and TypeScript.

[efficax]

wow, zoom hider! just yesterday i was in a zoom saying i wish i had something that could keep the damn floating controls hidden when i hit escape, and there it is. fantastic

[0atman]

Coding pairs well and elevates many other side-hustles, I think.

Nearly every job can benefits from automation, and if it can't, then the logical thinking that coding requires will improve it in some way.

I paired coding with fiction writing and made a scifi podcast, which now represents 10% of my monthly income after two years!

I wrote up my experience and advice here, if you're interested in the details https://www.0atman.com/articles/21/make-fiction-podcast

[0atman]

More recently (March of this year) I also started to teach what I can about coding on my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/NoBoilerplate)

Which has seen enormous positive feedback - and youtube ads are very fair (50/50 split between you and Google), and you don't have to chase the money, it's all handled for you! Another 10% of my monthly income comes from YT, I'd guess.

The key with a youtube channel is to differentiate yourself from the rest in some way. I'm trying to do that with careful script writing and high-quality audio. Don't just dive in and waffle for 30 minutes while screenrecording, practice!

[tayo42]

Thats funny as I just started writing fiction. I wanted to improve my written communication skills and thought it would be a fun way to. Thanks for the comment and link its interesting!

[danielheath]

> The thought of returning to corporate working kind of disgusts me. daily meetings, middle management bs, politics, bureaucracy... im sure your familiar with the typical complaints.

Have you considered working in a company that isn't like that?

Things to look for:

* Ownership: The owner should be the person running the business.

* Size: Fewer than 20 employees. Ideally two or three; consider being the first.

* Revenue: A reasonably stable revenue stream lets you take on mid-long term projects. Ad revenue from a niche content business is quite good here.

[nicbou]

Programming can support almost any other domain. A programmer paired with another expert can create a lot of value.

These days I'm a webmaster. I don't get paid to write software, but writing software helps me get paid.

I help people with German bureaucracy, and occasionally, being able to create software helps me do my job better. I can build little calculators and widgets that support my content, for example.

If I didn't do that, I'd probably pair with other people to solve small problems that big tech doesn't cover. It's fun, it's effective, and it's often lucrative.

[specproc]

Non-profits are very different to corporate environments. Not without their own issues and bullshit, and less well-paid, but considerably more easy going and potentialy a lot more fun.

Some people like the idea of doing something meaningful, I've been in the sector too long to care about that. What I do find is that the sort of problems you're facing are far more interesting. For example, I spend all day trying to figure out how best to track how [ISSUE] is presented in the media.

Worth having a poke around non-profit job boards for interesting-looking problems. The good gigs are often solving very specific, weird and interesting challenges.

[rahul_nyc]

AI space is heating up with the release of Stable Diffusion models and OpenAI.

If you are interested you can start playing with these tech and make things useful for people.

I'm just getting started on this and released the MVP version of Picasa AI[1] and I'm excited about it.

I wanted to build something for a long time and I always postponed it for better time. With the AI trends I feel now is the correct time to jump in.

[1] - https://PicasaAI.com

[dools]

Being good at making other people money is actually a skill you can monetise. That’s basically what B2B software is: making money for other people. It’s the very definition of value creation. So focus on how you can make money for other people, then scale that up in a way that allows you to charge less than the value created but more than the cost to produce.

Also don’t try to think of an idea, just start talking to business owners about problems that cost them money or constrain growth (opportunity cost) and fix those problems.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

> monetizing hobbies

I find two issues with this (disclaimer, My "hobby" is coding, so I guess I've been monetizing it, all my adult life):

1) Once someone starts paying you, they get to exert their influence on your work, and it becomes a lot less "hobbyish."

One of the biggest joys in my life, these days, is not having managers destroying my work.

2) Delivering ship software requires a lot of "not fun" stuff.

In some cases, the majority of the project could be wrapped up in "unfun," like needing to use particular coding practices, languages, dependencies, techniques, etc. Also, there's all the "polishing the fenders" kind of thing, like documentation, UX finish, maintenance, fixing all those bugs that you don't think are "actually bugs," establishing CI/D, configuration management, presentations to the Board, etc.

These days, I write software for myself. I eat my own dog food. Every one of my projects is a complete ship product, with all the aforementioned stuff (without the CI/D, as I don't really need it, for my one-man shop).

[ktpsns]

Depending on your country, freelancing next to the day-job may be an option to testing "the new job" without giving up the security/benefits of an employment (for instance an affordable employer's contributed health care if you are in western europe). Hourly rates for IT freelancing professionals are only increasing, there is a long standing and ongoing shortage for skilled people. It is not uncommon to earn a yearly sallary of an employee within a few month as a freelancer. This means: Even more time to checkout what you really want to do.

Edit, disclaimer: I co-founded a cooperative to help skilled IT people to work independently as freelancers, giving legal advices and a network.

[trap_goes_hot]

Reading your post, I think for you - consider working only for a paycheck, rather than wanting to work for nebulous concepts such as 'good work', 'passion', 'fun', etc. Work a 9-5, go home and enjoy your time outside of work. Just be a solid, dependable person, and give no reason to be fired. Don't try to overachieve, because that can lead to additional responsibilities/stress/etc. This type of person is very much required in every single company.

[rozenmd]

Consider teaching on your own blog - it's not immediate money, but if you're patient, you'll start to get folks asking if you're available for consulting, or if you've considered writing a book on what you write about.

Source: I wrote a book about a single function in React, it did okay.

[LouisSayers]

I've been working on Entrepreneurship for quite a while now and still feel like a noob!

I created an ebook a while back on how to make money with Airbnb (based on my experience as a superhost), but I did zero marketing and ended up making about 3 sales total...

A few years back I made a course on Udemy. I figured this would solve my marketing issue. It took me 6 months and was a real slog but managed to create a course about Neo4j. I don't make a tonne of money from that, but managed to make a best selling course, and on a good month it might bring in $1k USD.

A couple years ago I did Sam Ovens consulting accelerator which basically teaches you to reach out to ppl with problems and get them on a sales call then sell them a $2k solution to said problem. I followed this and managed to sell a handful of people on helping them land their first dev job. People's problems were varied, I realise in hindsight that I could have been more educated around coaching but I did help all those people land their first job. I played with pricing a bit, selling at various prices ($2.5k, $750, $1.5k). I feel like if you pushed long and hard enough on this niche perhaps it could be successful, but to me it always felt a bit off for various reasons.

Now, I'm creating a website builder. I'd say it's not a project for the light hearted - it pains me a bit to say that it's been a year so far. I actually have something that can build a website and did have it up online, but took it down to avoid server costs while building it out.

I've learnt a lot on my journey and I find it fun (in a massochistic sort of way), but still very much a work in progress.

Happy to share if anyone has questions :)

[Brajeshwar]

You sound like someone who can be a technical co-founder to someone who is good with sales and the schmoozing part. A lot of Startup founders are looking for such a person, who is the "Guy in the Chair".

You get paid to do what you like. And things goes well, get a big payday later on. If not, by then, you would know how to do another one but with a much better experience, connections, and still not do the "typical complaints."

[lavventura]

In trading, I realize I always made loses when my emotions get involved. So I decided to implement a trading-bot in Python for fun. It took 1.5 years of development. The bot can open ~100 positions each day and closing all with 1 cent gain (in total ~1$ profit per day). At least its nice to see something I made can make some money even its amount pretty small.

[yrgulation]

Most web related indie dev has been killed by open source. Best alternative is to look into niche programming or pairing with a person that understands real life problems and needs. Game dev is an option along with programming plugins for various platforms. Dont be put off by nay sayers and do your own research.

[strzibny]

You can always do your own course or book and put it on Gumroad. Here's my story: https://nts.strzibny.name/one-year-of-sales/

[jcpst]

> I can code up my dream ideas with ease, what i don't know how to do is market anything or get users.

That is the key. If you learn marketing strategies, you will be able validate ideas, grow a customer base, test what works and doesn’t.

[AlwaysRock]

Reading your post it sounds like you dont really want to learn how to do something new. You just want to use your existing skill set to make money. That is fine but to start a business, and starting a side hustle is starting a business, you need to learn new things.

If you dont want to do that then maybe finding a smaller company or a company with a better culture will help. I didnt love my first two eng jobs. I like this one a lot. No middle management bs. No politics. Get to work on interesting stuff. Just took some time to find it. Ask friends where they want to work/the best place they have worked is.

[mr_gibbins]

I have tried, and failed, and tried, and failed, to maintain interest in full time office-based positions. I just can't. I've never held a FTE position longer than 3 years. I'm nearing 40, by the way.

I use my skills, such as they are, in contract positions. I've been working continuously since 15 or so and aside from a brief spell of 4 months, never been out of work. When I became experienced/qualified enough to use my programming/engineering skills, after another failed FTE position I went contracting and never looked back.

Once again, recently, I have failed to engage with my latest run at an FTE role. I can't be doing with the monumentally slow pace of my employer, the power structures, the bureaucracy, the 45-minute daily standups (yes, I know), the broken business processes. So I'm back to contracting.

Some people aren't cut out for office life. Contracting is office life, sure, but you dictate the terms, you (generally) dictate the pay, you stay when you find a good team and walk when you want to. The problems are harder, you're generally solving issues the client can't solve themselves and bureaucratic blockers magically disappear when the client remembers you're costing them three figures a day.

LinkedIn jobs (HEAVILY filtered) tends to be my go-to when I go shopping for a new client, but there's plenty of contract-specific talent networks and bodyshop consultancies who you can find work from.

[jerrygoyal]

i use Toptal to find projects i want to work upon with my preferred tech stack, timezone, working hrs (I prefer 20 hrs) and hourly rate. There's so much freedom for me that I could never get from a corporate . Toptal clients are nice too!