Ask HN: Oops, I just sold my startup to a piano company. Now what?

[dangrover]

So the last time I relied on you for advice was 1394 days ago, according to this: http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=134685

Since then, I worked at a few startups, dropped out of school, started a successful Mac app business, and ended up spinning off a music publishing platform for the iPad that was doing very well until I ran into a legal issue.

So I exited earlier than I would have liked:

http://steinway.com/news/press-releases/steinway-sons-debuts-etude-20-ipad-app-for-learning-and-playing-piano/

The heart of the matter was that I signed a bad contract with someone who was supposed to get music deals for me. With the contract in place, it limited my options for continuing to bootstrap, taking funding, or getting acquired by a few of the companies I was talking with. Except for Steinway, which found a way to work with me.

So I moved from SF to New York, I brought in a team, we transitioned the app over, built one of the first sheet music stores for the iPad, and released a new version of the app I'm really happy with.

If you're curious, you can try it for free at: http://etudeapp.com

With the app transitioned and my legal matter finally settled, we've set a date for me to leave the company. I'm excited, but a little terrified.

Since the time I sold, I have many times the resources/runway I had before, and I'm a good deal more mature and in much better shape. The odds are waaay better, so I ought to just hang out and see what I come up with, right?

But for whatever reason, after spending about 2-3 years pursuing a single idea so passionately, I'm pretty burned out, and I'm not quite ready to start something new yet. I'm not excited about any of my other ideas to the degree I was with Etude, and I'm having trouble seeing what to do now. I feel like I've reached a local maximum, and I need to go work with other people and see what kind of ideas they're into.

I'd really like to do an incubator like YC, since having decent advisors would have prevented me from running into the trouble I did before. But it's not the right time, and I'm (so far) a single founder.

So I went and interviewed at a bunch of places in New York (since I'm stuck for at least a little while). People seemed to like what I'd done and I got a few offers from some good companies, traditional and startup.

I don't really need a gig, but I figured I'd see what I could get. But the thing that bugs me about this is that nobody seems to think that I'm anything more than a code monkey. They don't realize that, in addition to engineering, I actually started something new, managed the product, a whole team, did a fair bit of design, promotion/press, successfully exited, all sorts of stuff that doesn't really fall under "Objective-C developer." Not exactly covered in the Stanford course. I'm not usually so arrogant, but it's frustrating.

For some reason, the logic on the east coast, and even in a lot of SV is, "If you can code, then you can only code. Forever."

I'm returning to San Francisco for a week just to meet up with some old friends and escape the cold later this month. Hoping that will help me.

But what should a person who wants to take a break and get some broader experience but is tainted with an engineering background do? Is the only option for me to just suck it up, gather the courage, and commit to striking it on my own with another idea? Have any of you ever been at a similar crossroads after exiting something?

[breckinloggins]

If you don't mind me saying, it sounds to me like you've come into more money and success than you've ever had and now you're feeling guilty about it. You SEE yourself as a guy who works and creates stuff, not a capitalist on a yacht; but, when you glance at your accounts, your mind is telling you that you are, in fact, a fat capitalist on a yacht telling everyone down below to row.

This is creating guilt and cognitive dissonance.

But that isn't you. The amount of zeroes on a bank statement does not a man make. The reason you went out looking for jobs even though you didn't need them is not because you were bored. It's because you wanted to convince others (yourself, really) that you haven't let success go to your head.

Well, I can tell by your post that you haven't let it go to your head. And you know what, it probably won't. Those people who get rich and then turn into complete douche-nozzles... guess what? They were douche-nozzles to begin with! Money tends to amplify one's personality, not alter it.

So relax!

Give yourself permission to:

- Buy that car or boat or whatever you've always wanted. Just keep the Tercel ;-)

- Travel, explore, learn, teach, whatever. If money is no object, the first thing I'd love to do is drive trucks for 6 months or so. The next thing would be to get my PhD. Do what you've always wanted to do if you didn't have to work... because you don't.

- Create! Use your coding skills for yourself. If you don't have the urge to write code, don't. But if you do, don't worry if it doesn't have a market or an exit strategy, just write it and feel good. Share it. You'll enjoy it again.

Bottom line: you have worked hard, developed a great product, saw it through to a nice exit, and are in a position to enjoy the fruits of your success. We at HN hereby give you permission to do so ;-)

[akulbe]

I would say he should keep his toes wet… dabble with some small pet project, or something to keep his skills sharp. Or even learn a new tech. Just don't let your skills go dull, while you're living it up… but definitely enjoy the fruits of your labor!

[Ixiaus]

This is a great comment, OP should take this one to heart.

[eykanal]

Regarding the comment you received of "If you can code, then you can only code. Forever.", you need to work on your own branding. If people are getting that impression of you, it's likely because that's the part of your work that you most focused on when originally speaking with them, intentionally or unintentionally. It's up to YOU to set what your public image is.

Case in point: I recently graduated from grad school with a PhD in biomedical engineering. I had known all along that I wasn't a competitive candidate for employment in the BioE industry for a number of years, and I had always dreaded having to find a job as one. However, through a stroke of coincidence, I landed a very short-term job as a data scientist, and I realized that my marketing myself as a "BioE" simply because that was my degree was only hurting myself. I completely changed my resume--still entirely true, but focusing on different skills and directed to a different audience--and applied to different positions. I'm now working for a large bank as a quantitative analyst, and I'm enjoying it tremendously.

If you go in speaking about how you designed and managed a website, people will see you as a code monkey. If you go in talking about how you came up with a business model, raised funding, managed numerous teams of developers and supporting staff, and eventually sold the company for a profit, I imagine that conversations would go a lot differently.

[stonerri]

^^ What he said.

[aaronwhite]

If you don't need the money, take time off. When I left the last startup I co-founded, I decided to set an arbitrary "1 whole year" date, during which time I would explore my own projects, hear about other peoples new ideas, and talk to existing larger startups (Dropbox, etc). But I wouldn't allow myself to commit to anything until about a year was over. It's too easy to be come enamored w/ half-baked ideas, and I wanted to make sure the next one was meaningful and had a high probability of success. Long story short, I learned a ton during that year, turned down some great options, and eventually chose the BEST of all possible options. (Starting a meaningful company w/ killer co-founders, gaining traction, and having a blast)

If you have the chance, give yourself the space! It'll be worth it.

[zyphlar]

Also, as an entrepreneur you've officially graduated beyond the resume/interview/application process. The only people who fully appreciate those entrepreneurial skills are other business owners and executives; if you come in and ask me for a job coding awesome stuff, I'm mostly going to care about your code skill because someone else is handling the promotion, design, and management.

Of course you could work in a small business where having lots of diverse skills is valued, but you'll probably be vastly underpaid and overworked.

Sounds like you want to be appreciated though. Offer to work for free! If you don't need the money, help someone you identify with. Give back, pay it forward, whatever. You'll have a great time, learn a lot, and make new friends for whatever happens next.

[joshu]

You need to take a long break. At least six months. I did this after my yahoo term was up and I needed it.

[j45]

What does 6 months do vs say a month?

Genuinely curious, thanks

[a_a_r_o_n]

People see you as a coder because they're hiring a coder. They're not prepared to see anything except what they're focusing on. If you don't want to be seen as a coder, don't go to those interviews.

Take some time off. You'll come up with ideas about your work and life that would never happen if you were head down leading a specific life and working on a specific thing. Let your mind wander. We have ideas overnight and in the shower because our brains are wired to take advantage of that.

[solutionyogi]

Dan, I am really surprised that anyone would treat you as code monkey.

I think you should get in touch with Patrick (patio11) and Thomas (tptacek) and get some tips on you how can pitch yourself better.

And yes, as a piano beginner, I love your app. :)

[niels_olson]

I'm learning piano along with my son. We have been using a mix of software and hardware for the last year, mainly Synthesia and a little Piano Booster. His first lesson is tonight, we're interviewing teachers for the next couple weeks. My question for you: does Etude support a midi controller via the ipad camera kit? Or is it just the sheet music, detached from any external inputs? The app page says nothing about this issue.

[keiferski]

Read the classics. Learn how to paint/draw/sculpt. Travel to random places. Keep a journal on what you want to do with your future.

After a few years of the above, you should have a much better idea as to what you want. Jumping from one intense startup to another (or into a random job) won't give you time to sit back and reflect.

[yan]

Dan, I remember seeing your story those 1394 days ago (only to join a few days later) and it's amazing to see what you've accomplished.

I've been working on trying to get out and do other interesting things around that aren't tech-related, mostly outdoor and alpine-related. NY area isn't exactly the outdoor paradise that some other places are, but I'm working on getting some like-minded people together to get away from the glare of displays. Get in touch with me if you're interested.

edit: If anyone else is interested, please feel free to get in touch.

[chernevik]

NYC has outdoor opportunities, but they require car range of about 4-6 hours and some planning. Tough for people with families, but you kids go have fun.

White Mountains -- are only 4-6 hours away -- gorgeous, and above tree line. Great hiking. People cross-country ski there, don't myself know much about that bit.

Catskills -- IANA Rock Climber but I've _heard_ there are great walls in there, and in the "Gunks". </rumor>

Kayaking -- A lot of water around here, I imagine kayaking (fresh & sea) opportunities can found. Not much white water, I'd guess, but Great Falls is renowned and DC is only four hours away.

[rokhayakebe]

1) Start advising small time entrepreneurs full time. Full time. You can join an incubator and do this, or you can simply do it alone.

2) When you are ready to do another startup you will just know it.

Edit: We spend our lifetime surviving, catching up, trying to make it. Once we make it, we realize that we never learned how to just live.

[twelvedigits]

My suggestion is identical to #1 here.

[roguecoder]

Have you looked around Boston? I haven't seen as much of that attitude here, including in my own company. Otherwise I'd be in trouble ;-) At least, I suggest not taking NYC as representative of the entire East Coast.

As for suggestions, I'd say find a project you like working on and do it. I hate writing code that will never be used, and find it much harder than writing code to solve a need. However, that doesn't necessarily mean "a job": there are lots of non-profits that have ideas for computer programs, open source projects with bugs waiting or kids you might know who'd love a game from Uncle Dan.

If you miss collaboration, try applying all the skills you developed with regards to people and organization to building a for-fun project team. Look around for teenagers who are bored: organize a robotics team or volunteer with a summer technology program. Check out user groups and find non-employment-related coding friends. Reach out to people who might not already be in nerd-y spaces too; maybe you could start a during-school-hours meet up for stay at home parents.

Just because you aren't working for money doesn't mean you can't contribute to projects that will be used and have real-world value. Many of the programs we use every day never made anyone a penny.

[joshu]

Also, drop me a line if you want to brainstorm or introductions.

[dangrover]

I should clarify: I neglected to mention that I've accepted a job at an agency in NYC doing some (pretty cool) iOS projects. I'm not sure why I did that so soon, given all I've said here, but I figured I'd give it a fair try, turn around some projects for them, and see if it gives me new perspective.

They gave me a very strong offer and pitched me on the idea that some people leave and come back, and that that's okay (within reason), so I think that's what made the decision.

I posted this today not because I was thinking of skipping out, but because I know that it's not the real next step for me 1-2 years down the road, and I could really benefit from the HN perspective. Thanks to everyone who has posted their comments/contacted me!

[jneal]

Here's my advice. You don't have to have a new gig lined up immediately after you leave your current one. Take a little bit of time off. You probably need a little relaxation and little time to think and be creative again. I promise you new ideas will come in due time. If people are looking for a developer, and you have developer skills, they are going to hit you from that point and ignore the rest. In due time you will gain that same passion you had before but for a new idea and you'll be right back where you were only with a bunch more experience than you had before so things can only get better.

[sshumaker]

Having weathered the autonomy of running your own company, you're probably no longer going to be happy just writing code for someone else. In a way, running a startup tends to ruin you as an employee.

Take a break. Meet with a lot of people, and see what they're working on. After a while, one of them might click with you, or you can start brainstorming and developing your own ideas. Try to look for a co-founder. And if you'd like to do an incubator, consider applying to YC, as you yourself suggested. They have batches twice a year, so you have plenty of time to figure out what you'd like to work on next.

[jballanc]

A friend hit a rut a little while back. He had a few apps in the app store, but wasn't advancing at his day job and couldn't quite get a team together for a startup (I'm partly to blame there...). So, he moved.

To Nicaragua.

Now, he's gotten a group of friends and a couple of local college kids together and he's developing an app to promote tourism in the area. Because of the differences in standard of living, he's got a nicer place than before, goes out for dinner with friends regularly, and is still managing to save a bit. From our conversations, it seems like he's really enjoying the change of pace and the different culture.

So, my recommendation would be to move. Far, far away. There has probably never been a better time to be a programmer in a developing market. Brazil, Argentina, Chille all seem to have rapidly growing developer communities. India is still struggling to break out of being labeled "that place to outsource stuff", and Russia, while significantly hampered by corruption, is still managing to spawn a handful of tech startups. There is eastern Europe/former Soviet republics, where I know a number of western Europe startups are looking to expand to.

Finally, if none of the rest of that tickles your fancy, try Ushahidi: http://ushahidi.com/ . If you have enough money that you don't need to worry about a specific salary, or if you are even wealthy enough to work for free, these guys seems like they might just be able to change the world (or at least Africa). Could be fun...

[thaumaturgy]

I went through something sort-of-kind-of similar almost ten years ago. I got a good full-time job as a programmer/sysadmin before I was even out of high school, moved across the country and got another job with a large corporation where I became one of their lead techs while working on a few other projects for them. I made more money than I knew what to do with and I should have been happy.

But, I kept getting more and more unhappy instead, and finally decided that I needed to do something really different. I decided that I'd had it too easy, so I was going to set out to make life really hard for a while. (I had no idea what I was getting myself into. All the same, I'd do it all over again even if I knew.)

Anyway, I left the computer industry entirely, moved back across country, tried to become a forest service ranger and ended up becoming a climbing instructor after having a few other odd jobs. I was broke, but happy. I returned to the tech industry several years later and now I'm much more comfortable with it and well-balanced.

You have resources and you sound like you're a lot smarter than I was, so you could probably do something similar without the kind of hardships I experienced. If you're not sure of what you want to do next, then go out and experience the world in a completely different way until you find the next thing you want to do. Go and do things you've never done before, then come back and start another company.

The main thing with this advice is just to make sure that you don't do nothing -- make sure you keep pushing yourself to do something every day. But I doubt that you'll really have that problem from the sounds of it.

[roobeast]

Take a year and go travel. Set aside an amount for a healthy runway when you return, then you will have better clarity if you want to start something new or go work on someone else's idea. There are many companies that segment the workforce into "can code" and mba/product people. Try not to work for one of those places. You can find someplace that values both skills in an individual however it may take a while.

[fowkswe]

Sublet your apartment, go to South America (Beunos Aires) while its warm. Drink coffee, eat steak and figure out your next move. More ideas will come.

[andyleclair]

I wish I had some advice for you, Dan, but I don't. I'm just leaving this comment to say congrats to my old roommate. You're the man now, dog!