Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

[hazrmard]

The tech sector underwent rapid manpower growth, and recently, rapid reduction [1,2,3].

What advice do you have for new grads in CS/EE fields looking for jobs? For example, I am finishing my PhD in AI-related work this spring. Colleagues I've talked to in several companies have told me about frozen hiring. Is this true in your experience?

Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for? Should I reach directly to managers in different teams? Who are the best people/kinds of firms to reach out to when the industry is slowing hiring?

[1]: https://layoffs.fyi/ [2]: https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-layoffs-worried/ [3]: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/05/tech-jobs-hit-the-hardest-by-layoffs-last-year-report.html

[mooreds]

I like the advice here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-softwar... (didn't write it, but it jives with my experience).

I also wrote something here on how to stand out: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2022/09/19/ways-to-stand-...

Finally, you ask:

> Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for?

That depends on your financial situation and emotional runway, but my advice would be that in general it is far easier to get a job once you have a job. I wouldn't advise taking a job digging ditches (unless you need the $$$), but if you can find something that is related to your chosen profession, isn't clearly toxic, and is a full time paying job, take it.

If the company is good, you'll have the ability to grow internally and you'll be a known quantity.

If the company is not great, you'll at least have some experience to put on your resume. You may even be able to help improve the company. At worst you'll have a salary and title and be able to job search from there.

[lifeisstillgood]

Just to jump in on this - I got canned in the last big recession and while not a new grad, I took the next (contract) job that came up, at much lower pay, and over the next year doubled my take home from the original job.

Two lessons

1. Spend your lunchtimes job hunting. Treat it like a job

2. Move around as a new grad. Think of it like dating, you have to kiss a few frogs just to get an idea of what is out there.

(Most people who stay in one job really mean lots of different jobs inside one giant conglomerate)

So don't be afraid to move around. And focus on the code. Ignore the management bullshit, the meetings the agile talk. Focus on code.

[eptcyka]

I'd say, having experiences at bad workplaces can still be valuable. This isn't to say one should seek out toxic colleagues and horrible working conditions, but knowing what you do not want is valuable too. And having bad workplaces early on is cheaper than having bad workplaces later in life. All in all, I'm trying to emphasize that a job in the field you want will almost always be beneficial when you're starting out.

[jwestbury]

> in general it is far easier to get a job once you have a job.

Furthermore, it's easier to negotiate, and you'll feel less desperate (and thus hopefully less stressed) about the process as a whole. Prospective employers know you can walk away if you already have a job -- but they also know you aren't likely to walk away if you don't.

[sh4rks]

Great advice. The only thing that's missing is to grind leetcode as hard as you can. As much as HN and Reddit hates leetcode, most companies still use it in some form. Getting good at leetcode-style questions will allow you to get through the first few interview stages more consistently. Then, in the later interview stages, you can show off your personal projects and open source contributions.

[Scubabear68]

Good advice from the pragmatic engineer article. Particularly the advice to "aim wide". It is so tempting to put all your effort into that one perfect job. But in down times, you want a steady paycheck and to start getting practical experience under your belt.

The only thing I would add is to always try to shoot for a company where technology is seen as an asset and not just a cost center. Traditionally, that was software companies and places like Wall Street. Now that net is wider, but beware jobs with titles like "Programmer II" or "Programmer/Analyst", indicators of companies where IT is a cost center and you get stuck as a minor cog in a minor wheel.

[AnotherGoodName]

I was recently asked "Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for?" by a laid off Visa holder.

This is even more straightforward. Yes it is.

I know many who are being hit by layoffs. The situation sucks. I don't think there's any advantage to downplaying this right now whether in your own mind or through advice to others. There's a huge number of tech workers laid off simultaneously and very bluntly you should look for any job that supports your Visa as the priority.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

That is excellent advice, and not one single hint of jargon!

Practicality, in my experience, has always been of tremendous importance.

Also, for me, I tended to take low-paying jobs, if the technology/company interested me, because I wanted to learn.

Learning is difficult; especially learning to ship. Feasts of Humble Pie, Egg-On-Face, and Crow, with side orders of stress and overwork. A surprising number of folks don't actually want to do it.

In my experience, it has always been worth it; even the "negative learning" experiences.

[Aaronstotle]

I'll add to this, I've had 5 jobs within 5 years of graduating.

The first 2 jumps were due to compensation, was able to get a nice raise each time.

The third job was a good fit, however the role evolved into something I didn't like as much and didn't fit my career goals.

I took the fourth job to try something new, quickly found out the role had nothing I enjoyed doing.

All of the experiences were valuable in terms of experience: different industries, meeting different people, and learning what I like to do.

[pyuser583]

Digging ditches (or whatever) can be smart.

I took a non-tech job for survival money, and in spare time looked for a high paying dev job.

Everyone was pushing me to take an entry level tech support position.

There’s no shame in a survival job, especially if it helps you find a good position.

When I interview, I get asked why I left so many jobs developer (companies went under), but nobody asks why I left my job as a janitor.

[alexpetralia]

And perhaps, implicit in the above reply, write about what you have learned!

[ryandrake]

I've been through the dotcom slaughter of 2000-2002 as a new grad (undergrad) and the comparatively small slowdown of 2008 (grad school new grad). Get ready to hit the Submit button... a lot. The stories of "getting three job offers after four interviews at five companies" are no longer reality. My application:interview:offer ratio has always varied from 50:5:1 to 100:10:1, and I would expect something like that or worse for the next ~12 months or however long it takes for tech CEOs to stop cargo culting each other's panic. Unlike some advice you're likely going to get in this thread, I'd highly recommend shotgunning your resume to as many viable tech companies as you can, and even looking at line-of-business programming at non-tech companies. Now is not really the time to be picky, especially if you're on your own and have rent/bills to pay or support your family.

I ended up close to insolvent during the 2008 recession, and I bit the bullet and took a terrible job just to get by. Be willing to swallow your pride and do the same if that's what it takes. That little voice in the back of your head that says "Well I just graduated from Stanford! Surely I can do better than this!" Ignore it for now.

[999900000999]

Great advice. This is the worst time job hunting for most of us since the tech economy hasn't really cut jobs since 08. 2020 and 2021 were crazy times, I interviewed with Amazon at least 4 times, got an interview with FB even. I don't consider myself to be a great dev and wound up making 200k per year at a point.

Now it's all coming back down to reality and I'm rapidly re-adjusting my expectations. Interviews are getting much much harder, I'm getting ghosted after final stages, and it's easy to get discouraged. Looking at the news it's not just me becoming a crap dev overnight, but the entire tech economy looking like crap.

Let's hope it at least stabilizes soon. As is I think I'll have to take a massive paycut.

[Traubenfuchs]

> The stories of "getting three job offers after four interviews at five companies" are no longer reality.

Yikes. I have been in Software Engineering for about 11 years and never had it any other way and even then interviewing and managing applications was stressful. Having to apply to 10s, 100s of companies would destroy me. I am very, very scared of my company going under and me having to compete in this market. I hope it gets better soon and people stop doing the "learn to code to get rich quick" routine.

[jerf]

I have a similar story. Graduated as an undergrad into the teeth of the dotcom crash. Took an opportunity to pick up a master's degree essentially "for free" because it's not like I was going to get a job in that environment. Graduated into still a very weak job market.

One of the saddest memories not related to the usual stuff like funerals and such is the job fair at the university after graduation. I bought a suit. I shouldn't have bothered. (Only worn it once more since then!) When I first walked up it looked OK; had like 15 booths. But EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. was just collecting resumes and telling you they didn't have any openings. Would have preferred to just attend an empty job fair or have been told it was cancelled. That was a truly crushing half an hour.

Took a relatively crap job after that. It actually wasn't bad on a personal level, it wasn't like I hated it, but, no future. Obviously a dead end. Crap job. Went to work for a similar crap job at a startup after that, which was pretty lucky itself. The out-of-work-hours noodling I did led to a real job, a few years later.

Do what you need to do. May not even be a programmer job. My personal opinion, which shouldn't be taken as anything more than that, is that A: the next few years are going to be rough, possibly rougher than the dotcom crash but B: in the end, programmer is still a good career choice. Companies simply can not compete without automation any more. Software will continue to eat the world for the forseeable future. I don't expect AI or low-code to do much more than peck at the opportunities available. (Maybe I'm wrong, but if we do get to the point that AI really does successfully replace programmers we have essentially hit the singularity and all bets are off.)

Programmers also have had and will continue to have the unusual ability that many other disciplines do not have where you can continue to learn skills even if you are underemployed. It's hard to practice industrial-scale chemical engineering at home while you're unemployed, but you can learn Rust, or Terraform, or AWS, or source control, or whatever, and even into the teeth of an underemployment period you can still be developing. That helped me and I recommend putting at least some effort into that.

Just don't forget that while learning Rust is more fun, it's not putting resumes out there, hitting trade shows, networking, etc. That is way less fun and much more emotionally expensive, but more likely to lead to even that job that puts food on the table.

[ghaff]

I was incredibly lucky during dot bomb because of one good connection that I reached out to first thing when I was laid off and had lunch with. In the month it took them to decide they wanted to (and could afford to) hire me, I didn't get so much as a nibble from anyone else.

I know a fair number of people who dropped off the map and I assume the careers of many never got back on track.

So, while I'd be even more emphatic if the OP were a newly minted undergrad, I'd definitely recommend either extending academia a bit if practical or just trying to find something.

[micro_cam]

I've been in the ML/data space for 20 years and went through the 2008 cycle early in my career. I'm not hiring at the moment but am always happy to review resumes and give career advice as part of networking so feel free to ping me.

Reaching out to managers at big cos won't get you much. They are getting a ton of twitter/etc candidates and have stricter hiring policies and rubrics to prevent nepotism and favoritism. If you can network and ask for referrals through your friends / professors that can work better. Or reaching out to early stage startup cofounders can work really well.

ML/AI is less frozen then some other areas so that is good. Most really competitive new PHDs will have either a couple of internships, strong academic contributions or previous engineering experience demonstrating strong coding ability.

You should also consider post docs or academic engineer postings. The grant cycle insulates these a bit from the economic cycle and they can be a good place to gather some experience while you ride out the cycle.

And definitely consider very early stage start ups. A startup that just raised and has 2 years of runway is probably one of the safest places to be at the moment as they are still focused on growth. A lot of great companies proved themselves as startups during the 2008 cycle and grew rapidly after. Networking can mean a lot more here as early stage founders often literally just hire their friends or people they get along with without a ton of process.

[rumdonut]

Somewhat unrelated but a remark of yours was interesting to me. You mentioned PhDs sometimes have previous engineering experience; did you find it common for ML PhDs to have waited a few years before entering a program? I’m exploring doing the same but had thought the ship had sailed, now that I’m in industry.

[rumblefrog]

Thanks for the early start ups insight, also reached out on Linkedin :)

[ptero]

I would give different advice to someone getting a Bachelors vs someone getting a PhD.

For BS CS/EE (or any engineering field): do not overthink the "recession is coming" news. US employers always want young engineers, as they consider them energetic, willing to learn and work for less salary than late career staff. Look up and polish the in demand skills. Brush up on the basics (Python, databases, git) at least to the extent of being able to solve "one step up from fizzbuzz" problems. And apply. You might get less generous terms and no sign-up bonus, but you are almost certain to still land something that you can use as a springboard 2-3 years later.

For PhD in AI: I would apply to good companies only and consider deferring graduation for a year if your fishing turns up nothing. This requires both your mental readiness and your advisor's physical/financial one, but in general your advisor should be thrilled to have you work for him another year for a relative pittance of a graduate stipend. It should not come to this (the market is not dead), but I would personally take it easy and focus on the job search for another year in grad school over taking some soul-sucking job at a company no one has heard of.

My 2c. And good luck!

[gitfan86]

I agree and would add that if you have any interest in SRE or DevOps those jobs are generally in high demand and hard to fill

[indymike]

US DOL (look at JOLTS reports for more detail) statistics do not bear out the hypothesis that tech jobs are hard to get (demand is still very close to 2021, which was the record). There is a lot of evidence to support that layoffs are coming mostly from pure "Tech Companies", while the rest of the business world is continuing to hire. 94% of companies are saying they will add headcount in 2023...

... So my advice is to look at non-tech companies. Reality is that most companies really have become "tech companies", they don't make software or hardware, but have physical products and services -- and often are very technology dependent for operatiions.

[kypro]

If you're a new grad then presumably you're optimising for experience, not salary. I think it will be harder to find a good job for while, but it shouldn't be impossible to find any old job which will provide some relevant industry experience.

Late 2020 to earlier 2021 was nuts for tech jobs. Companies were hiring people who were massively unqualified just because they needed someone. During that time I was getting calls from recruiters weekly practically begging me to quit my job for some new opportunity they were recruiting for and unable to fill. Imo there are a lot of devs out there right now who only got hired because the market during 2020-2021. I worry a little for those guys because they were punching way above their weight to begin with and I think they'll probably struggle to find something as good should they get laid off.

The other people who might struggle are those looking for jobs specifically in the tech industry or tech startups. As someone looking for work right now I have noticed there are fewer jobs from tech companies out there, but there's still plenty of tech jobs in industries like travel, finance, and retail. Everyone needs tech workers these days so a tech industry slow down isn't necessarily the end of the world for someone with tech skills.

[unregistereddev]

There are a lot of tech jobs in manufacturing and in logistics as well. I strongly agree that while the tech sector may have contracted, there are still plenty of tech jobs available.

[zetazzed]

Maybe unpopular advice, but I do find that companies over-index on your current role. (FWIW I have hired lots of new and experienced PhDs in ML but am not hiring now.) So if you take a "placeholder" job, I suggest trying to find one that sounds at least as prestigious as your current position. So, changing your resume from "Fresh MIT PhD grad on the market" to "Researcher in boring lab of dying old industrial company" will be a bad move. If your passion is AI, it's a good idea to go for a placeholder job to be in AI/ML as well. Startups can be good unless they are obviously ridiculous or terrible ones - managers are used to seeing unknown startup companies and fresh grads, and you'll probably be forced to do lots of productive coding. But a bad research lab can be really bad - trailing edge research, bad code, not enough resources to do something meaningful, publishing in low-tier venues that nobody reads, ugh....

[red-iron-pine]

Fresh MIT grad has a lot of options; the name and alumni orgs alone will open doors.

OP is, nearest I can tell, getting a BS from Big State U, and that's a wayyyyy harder game than someone with a Ph.D and pedigree.

[gabereiser]

Don't see layoffs as an indicator of industry health. These are corrections, not melt downs. Go apply and do interviews, there are plenty of companies looking for talent.

[time_to_smile]

I like the optimism but I suspect we're still in the early stages of this process. There's lots of bubble to unwind here, and this mess hasn't even started to untangle.

I recently came across this quote from PG in one of his earlier essays [0] describing the early days of the dotcom bust regarding yahoo. Sounds very similar to the situation we're in now:

> It was not just our price to earnings ratio that was bogus. Half our earnings were too. Not in the Enron way, of course. The finance guys seemed scrupulous about reporting earnings. What made our earnings bogus was that Yahoo was, in effect, the center of a Ponzi scheme. Investors looked at Yahoo's earnings and said to themselves, here is proof that Internet companies can make money. So they invested in new startups that promised to be the next Yahoo. And as soon as these startups got the money, what did they do with it? Buy millions of dollars worth of advertising on Yahoo to promote their brand. Result: a capital investment in a startup this quarter shows up as Yahoo earnings next quarter—stimulating another round of investments in startups.

0. http://paulgraham.com/bubble.html

[dpflan]

Indeed, as an example, look at the stock prices for the last 4 years (20-22 bubble/where-else-does-money-go-when-all-work-is-remote), or even just startup valuations and round raises. Perhaps a useful question is about open positions at these companies doing layoffs and how many SMBs still exist for hiring, and are actively.

[iceburgcrm]

As a 20 year vet and someone who entered the market during the first crash in 2001. Apply everywhere, give a little extra in interviews and be prepared to work in a language you didn't expect.

To get my first position involved applying everywhere no matter the skillset asked. When I finally landed an interview we had to create an application. I created an application an hour after the interview was complete emailed it over and that sold me. They didn't believe I did this myself so quickly I had to provide some of my db scripts. The other candidates were stronger on paper (finished a 4 year computer science degree) but none could finish or finish as completely as I did.

It turned a little rough. One of the other candidates came in for lunch a week after I was hired. The founder and this person became friends during the interview process. She literally brokedown and cried that day because she wanted the job so badly. I'm surprised they didn't hire her just based on culture fit but this was a nonprofit with one 6 month contract available and tons of challenging problems to tackle.

My advice is to grind it out and pry that first job out however you can.

[difflens]

My recommendation would be to apply to as many positions as you can, but steel yourself to the fact that you may not hear back from any of them. I'd also recommend exploring if you can push graduation back by a year (assuming funding would cover it and you have legit research to do), or if you can pick up part time lecturer, post doc etc type of positions for the next year. IMO, job prospects for software engineers will likely start improving in the last quarter of 2023 and be much better in 2024. So I'd plan to tough it out till then.

I do empathize with your position and wish you luck :) I'm ever grateful to the first manager who hired me. He changed my life forever and that of my family.

[jstx1]

It's the usual - be as employable as you can, search for a job, apply, interview, get hired. I don't think that you need to do anything special just because the market is worse. When you start applying you'll find out how difficult the market is for you specifically (given your education, location, field etc), and you can adjust your expectations from there if you need to.

Maybe startups specifically look worse than other companies right now? But I never got the appeal of startups anyway (more likely lower pay, less stability, more likely to have poor work life balance and have to deal with inexperienced management).

[courgette]

I spend 5 years in startup around 2008, last big recession if I'm correct. What I appreciated of that time is that the mood was considerably less gloom and doom that my peers in large company.

Also... I was under 30 and I was just ecstatic to have a position of most of my time was greenfield projects. ( as opposed to maintain legacy code for crappy clients because of the aforementioned gloom and doom )

I can see small structures with a purpose being a ok time to spend a recession.

[AviationAtom]

Don't pigeon hole yourself into only skills or techniques too niche, but also make sure you learn skills unique to you within the organization. Essentially make yourself irreplaceable but also ensure you stay marketable.

Beyond that always keep looking at what's out there and network, network, network.

Starting out is hard, but after you put a bit of time in your resume will begin to speak for itself. For what your resume can't do for you that is what your contacts within desired companies are for.

Also, contributing to open source projects is great material for the resume!

[Bayko]

By spring there will be a lot of changes. The budgets will get realigned and stuff. So best advice would be to stop worrying and keep applying as generic as that advice sounds. Oh and if you are on it nuke /cscareerquestions

[steviesands]

Can you elaborate on budgets realigned? Wouldn't that have happened in Q4 for the new year?

[jabroni_salad]

I graduated in 09.

* It's easier to get a job if you already have a job. It's okay to take a shitty job as long as you don't get complacent about it.

* Gaps get stressed by job seekers in advice requests because it is a question that can make you look bad. However, if you are actually at an interview, they are fishing for bad dealbreakers not minor imperfections. Don't worry to much about it.

* If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage.

* Unemployment benefits are not charity, it is insurance that you pay for out of your wage. Dont let pride or shame convince you not to use it.

* Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check.

* There are grades of recruiters and higher grade jobs tend to be assigned to higher grade recruiters. The guys sending you irrelevant callcenter gigs on the other side of the country can be ignored as they are just playing the numbers game too, but if a recruiter advertises something decent to you the least you should do is reply with a "not right now but thanks". This results in a higher quality recruiter keeping you in their rolodex for later.

* Hire a professional resume writer for you. This goes not just for noobs, but also people who have been at the same gig for awhile and have not been through the hiring game recently.

* Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it.

* If you are offboarding, just plagiarize Nixon's resignation letter if you can't write anything nice at all. In a fiery departure, your best case scenario is that nothing happens and your worst case is that somebody who likes you will no longer want to be your reference or whatever. Your first one will always feel bad, but people coming and going is just part of life and doesnt have to be a big deal.

https://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/todays-doc/?dod-dat...

[fernandopj]

> Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check.

++1 this. Couldn't have said better myself. I went more than 10 years not having to apply anywhere, switching jobs just by referral - interviews felt like friendly meetings. Only broke that streak when interviewing for a job in another country.

[vehemenz]

I entered the job market in '08 and agree overall, but I will add a few caveats from my personal experience:

> If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage.

Assuming you are a useful employee, being a temp or a contractor can save you from being laid off because you are paid less, don't have the same benefits package, and are usually paid from a separate, more liquid general fund. If you believe in the power of personal anecdote, this saved my job once.

> Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it.

I don't think this advice applies to everyone. If you apply for jobs that are a good match for your skills, or you are simply exceptional, your base success rate will be higher in the first place, and you will get more ROI from a tuned resume and a serious cover letter. Just be mindful of where you are putting your effort, and don't be afraid to change up your strategy if it's not working.

[MandieD]

As someone who graduated into the Dotcom Bust, your expectations need to be pulled back a bit from what you saw your somewhat older friends get right away.

Not only the amount of your starting salary (it was about a 30-50% decrease for those of us in Class of 2002 vs our friends in Class of 2000), but also the coolness of the job (Them: web startups. Us: government contracting.)

I also watched some of those slightly older friends struggle with car and/or condo payments taken on the presumption of salary and stock options going nowhere but up. Ouch.

If you get a job offer you can stand in a place you wouldn’t mind living even if the job went away, you should probably take it. As others have said, it’s a lot easier to get a job if you have one. You’re a lot less likely to become desperate and have to accept something awful if you’re already in an ok job.

As for pay expectations, look at what similarly-educated mechanical engineers in your region make.

[anthomtb]

Hiring freezes are not really freezes. It is more like, "try extra hard to justify more headcount." Companies will always have some need for specialized skills and knowledge.

Since you are a high achiever in an in-demand field, you should still have good leverage during the job search. I would hold out for a role or company which you believe will suit your skill set.

I would not, under any circumstances, hold out for a "perfect" fit. It is unlikely to exist and if the company/recruiter is making it seem perfect they are almost certainly lying to you. A former colleague of mine was burned by this not long ago.

[justapassenger]

Maybe unpopular opinion, but if you can, look for companies that don’t hire too much remotely.

2 reasons: 1. Less competition. 2. (More important one IMO) For people starting their career, in person interactions are extremely valuable. You’ll learn a ton from hallway/lunch conversations. In your first few years, likely even more than from your job. YMMV, of course, but all those chats shaped me as an engineer.

[baby]

The problem with that is that you move to a new city/country and POP your offer gets revoked or you get laid off a few days after you moved.

[gwbas1c]

Lots of good advice. (Which I won't repeat.)

If you choose to graduate, remember, you're going to work for the rest of your career. Don't feel bad about taking some time for yourself! (Assuming this is the US,) it's going to be nearly impossible to take consecutive 2-4 weeks off, or longer, while you're employed. Do it now.

Looking for a job also doesn't have to be a grind. Even if you're playing the numbers game, you don't need to grind all day spamming out applications. Self-education in areas that you think you'll need are just as important. Don't feel bad about making every weekend a 3 or 4 day weekend.

Also, many people warn against being too selective. This is true. It's also important to have standards. When I really needed a job, over the past 20 years, I've turned down: A contracting gig where the contract came out of a nolo book (for hiring a contractor to do work in your home,) a (cough) job that came with a "stipend" that would hardly cover rent, a cryptocurrency gig run by a lucky hacker who had a few million dollars in the bank, but not enough common sense to have product-market fit... People talk about being "entitled." A lot of businesses believe they are "entitled" to your labor. Walking away from situations like this isn't being "too selective." It's having standards and looking out for yourself.

[stocknoob]

The long-term meta strategy is stepping back and realize that as long as you are dependent on a job for survival you’ll be at the whims of your employer, the market, the economy.

Build a raft instead of constantly treading water, and pursue FI.

If you like swimming, great! Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a raft right next to you. Swim for pleasure, not survival.

[topkai22]

As a new grad I don’t think you need to do much different. At my Megacorp the college hire budget is separate from everything else. Even during the strictest hiring freeze college hiring continued.

I would advise shifting expectations a bit, it’s likely offers will still be good but not quite as lucrative as last year.

As for accepting any job- just because you’ve accepted a job does not mean you can’t keep interviewing (in the US at least). Even starting at a company doesn’t mean you can’t keep interviewing. I ran a college hire onboarding program a few years back. Of the 20 people we had , 3 had new jobs within 3 months of hire. We weren’t happy about it, but they got legitimately better offers and we couldn’t match.

So, maybe say yes to a “safety job.”

Once you start, keep your expenses low, although you don’t need to live like a pauper. Living with a roommate (or SO), picking less expensive housing, limiting bar/club attendance, and driving a less expensive car really adds up.

That all being said, my impression is that the AI market remains one of the strongest in the tech sector for “real” practitioners. I think you’ll be ok.

[liquid_stranger]

> Of the 20 people we had, 3 had new jobs within 3 months of hire.

I am coming up on month 3 of my new job and not liking the team and leadership. I can tell it will only get worse.

I really want to leave and luckily have the opportunity to close the loop on all my current projects.

Should I just make it quick and send an email to manager tomorrow that I feel it's not a good fit and Friday is my last day? Make it quick and easy before I get more assignments and waste more time.

I have no job lined up but 9 years of experience and at least a year in savings.