I've been reading Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi, which is about the importance of networking and developing lasting relationships, and Keith does talk about preparation (get to know a person before you meet them), about being genuine, about having something to offer, about the importance of being liked, but I think I'm missing something a bit more fundamental. While I cherish relationships I do build, developing a genuine human bond is somewhat of a mystery to me: it happens sometimes, but infrequently, and doesn't seem to be under my control at all.
[+] [-] detrites|3 years ago|reply
If one or both people are mainly trying to make friends, the driving force is transient & non-intrinsic - at odds with that which endures.
Whereas with relationships that "just happen", there is a cascade of circumstance and shared interest, and those rise greater than any desire to connect. The connection is intrinsic and unstoppable as opposed to cultivated.
Pursue your own interests and the truth of your circumstance as fully as possible, as often as possible, and - crucially - for its own sake. Not to meet others, but to meet more of yourself.
Your friends will appear.
[+] [-] colanderman|3 years ago|reply
This is especially true because (I forget where I read this), statistically, most of your friends will be less socially assertive than you.
I know personally, if I stopped putting in effort to friendships -- positive friendships which bring net value into my life! -- all but maybe one or two would wither away, simply for want of ever seeing or interacting with each other.
[+] [-] beezlebroxxxxxx|3 years ago|reply
But for adults, I would say that this is not the best method. It can work, to be sure. But as adults, when various demands pull at your time (be it your job, your family, etc.) you can easily get in a state where...
> Pursue your own interests and the truth of your circumstance as fully as possible, as often as possible, and - crucially - for its own sake. Not to meet others, but to meet more of yourself.
...just leaves you still without friends because everyone else is also focusing on themselves and their own interests. This is especially rough in 2023 when people spend so much time online, alone, and so much of their hobbies revolve around being online, alone.
I have a lot of friends, and I think I'm pretty good at making and keeping friends. Friendship in adulthood looks different than childhood friendship. One of the ways it does is that it requires a certain amount of concerted effort by both parties to maintain the friendship, at once because you share interests, but also because the reciprocal effort is part of the friendship, it's constitutive of the very loyalty that typifies great friendships. It's about how despite all those competing demands on someone's time, you still decide to spend time together as friends.
It will feel unnatural and like "work" only because the preexisting social context of school or a job does a lot of work in the background. But once you realize that making and maintaining friendships takes a certain kind of effort, you can find it very rewarding. You also have the benefit of making lots of people different from yourself your friend, which people could probably use more of nowadays. I'm far more left leaning than some of my friends, but one thing that I think saves me from going completely off the deep end like some people I know is the exposure to alternative POVs that I get from my more right leaning friends.
[+] [-] travisporter|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bheadmaster|3 years ago|reply
I don't really have many friends. For someone to be my "friend" they'd have to be a person I'd spend time with when I'm bored, and who I could reasonably count on to have my back when I need it.
At the moment, I don't really have any people I can consider "friends" by that definition - I either don't like spending time with people (nothing to do, no place to be, too stressful, etc. etc.) or I'm simply "just another friend" to people. There is a certain type of individuals that like to be friendly with everyone. They radiate an "aura" of deep connection with you and make you feel special... When in fact they're that way with everyone, and you're just another victim of their well-trained manipulation techniques.
I don't really know how to get those "real" friendships. I remember I had some as a kid. I don't even know how I got those - was it just geographical proximity? Being forced to be in the same room for 8 hours a day?
I wish I knew. But solitude is pleasant, too, even though it's not as profitable.
[+] [-] KptMarchewa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scott_siskind|3 years ago|reply
Because much like you, I haven't really kept good friends along in life. I've had periods in my life when I had a "good" friend, that I could talk a lot of stuff with, share my problems, and generally do activities in common, but I moved around, I haven't really kept in touch.
Problem is, without a social circle, it's much more difficult to find a partner, and I'm at an age now where that's the main thing I think I'm missing.
But I understand the issue very well from a theoretical standpoint. At its core, it's about a disordered attachment style, a sort of fear of attachment, or a failure of the brain to regulate the affect resulting from interactions. A result of early developmental trauma. I'm also familiar with some techniques that are supposed to fix the problem (I was building a neurofeedback system based on ADS1299 at one point), but life got in the way. Which is ironic, since I think this is the most important aspect of any life, social functioning.
[+] [-] Rayhem|3 years ago|reply
A friend friend of mine with very similar thoughts as me (and, it sounds like, you) recently put it very well. The "workplace proximity associate" kind of friends, while kind of destined to remain shallow and not as deep a connection as any of us might want, are not unimportant. They ground us in a way and help us keep a connection to the world, but maybe not so much individuals.
[+] [-] wood2prog|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] odabaxok|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] totalZero|3 years ago|reply
Networking is complete bullshit because people who are highly social recognize potential areas for self-interest in relationship-building and any behavior that follows that path gets flagged subconsciously as disingenuous. Make friends and treat other people as you would like to be treated.
There is also a need to communicate, in order to give the other person a sense of your investment in the relationship (as represented by your time, effort, and candor) and material with which to formulate substantive responses and reciprocate with their own time, effort, and candor.
You have no control over how other people connect with you, and frankly, their opinion and feelings toward you are none of your business. Don't overtrain your behavior upon your perception of the progress of bonding. Just do what is right, fun, kind, and ethical. The rest falls into place.
[+] [-] incrudible|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sublinear|3 years ago|reply
My experience has been "having something to offer" is far and away the biggest factor, or rather what they think you have to offer. Everyone has plenty to offer, but not everyone immediately sees it, let alone appreciates it. The majority of people you meet won't be a "genuine bond" right away.
What works the best for me is simple. You focus on them without betraying yourself. It's sort of a dance. You treat discussions like a ball that cannot be dropped and listen well. You aren't afraid to take the lead and always have something new when things get boring. You avoid going deep into a topic until you've tried at least a few others or get a strong reaction. You keep how often you talk about yourself in check and keep it relevant. It's really a broader mindset in life of constantly searching for common ground. You are not trying to please them, but just asserting what you both want in a natural way. You're keeping them involved and not being awkward sharing control of the interaction.
> "it happens sometimes, but infrequently, and doesn't seem to be under my control at all."
So it's that last part that was my problem. I used to be pretty awkward sharing control in social interactions. I would ramble without ever looking up at their face or willfully ignore body language stubbornly thinking it was what I was saying rather than everything else. I would zone out because I didn't know how to say I didn't know what they were talking about. I was too inside my own head. My thoughts about them would pile up and go unresolved. I was more comfortable making assumptions and trying to guess rather than just asking them. In short, I was afraid.
No clue if this helps you or anyone. I tried. That's all we can do.
[+] [-] dmos62|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flax|3 years ago|reply
That's not to say there are no people I am on friendly terms with (coworkers, exes, ex-coworkers, people I knew 20+ years ago in college, etc).
From a utilitarian standpoint, it's important to have a few people you can reach out to to find work. And from a social standpoint, the times of my life where I had no social connections were difficult. But people have different needs, and my social needs are very modest. Do not feel bad because you don't have friends just because you think you're expected to.
As far as the title of the book, I believe eating alone is one of the great joys in life, especially when it's a respite from the forced social atmosphere of an open-plan office.
[+] [-] fragmede|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danieloj|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zztop44|3 years ago|reply
But I joined a language school class and made friends there. I joined a basketball team and made friends there too.
It seems weird but I’m starting to think that it’s as simple as if you interact someone once a week for a decent period of time and their personality is kinda compatible with yours then you become friends.
So if I was looking to make friends now, I’d look for a group activity with a weekly commitment that involves people who are likely to share some common interests.
[+] [-] nextweek2|3 years ago|reply
I think shared experiences are key to creating a common bond. If you talk with old school friends, most people will end up talking about past events, this is a re-enforcing mechanism.
I think also that there is an intensity to the shared experience that matters as well. Sitting across the desk from someone for 10 years might build a bond, but it might also not last long outside of that workplace. Whereas people doing something physical and emotional together creates a stronger bond.
Personally, as someone with older kids, I'm now trying new physical activities and meeting new people. I can see I am making new friends, I've created conversations and interactions which go beyond just the original weekly activity.
[+] [-] Zealotux|3 years ago|reply
The time spent together is significant and often underrated in my observations. No: I don't believe you can maintain, even less build, a friendship with only a few hours of occasional monthly talks over coffee. This is no surprise why BJJ courses are renowned for being so efficient at creating and solidifying friendships; you have similar people meeting regularly and struggling toward improving a specific skill.
The amount of time spent and the quality of that time will vastly influence the likelihood of friendships forming.
[+] [-] barrell|3 years ago|reply
For me, I normally share something mildly personal and see how they respond. Most of my closest friends and I clicked as soon as we met each-other, and talked about our hopes, dreams, fears, ambitions, traumas, worries, or some other personal topic right off the bat. If people are weirded out or uncomfortable by me being vulnerable, that means they're probably not in the same position, or we probably aren't very compatible.
Go out there, don't judge, and be yourself.
[+] [-] anonymous_goat|3 years ago|reply
Genuine friendship comes with shared interests (which is why it's easier to find friends in common activities that you are genuinely interested in), but also the simple chance of meeting interesting people. The best predictor of friendships in student dorms seems to be the relative distance of their rooms - see Kurzgesagt's "Why You Are Lonely and How to Make Friends" at https://youtu.be/I9hJ_Rux9y0 for some more interesting facts.
It's completely normal to have different level of friends - some to party with, some to nerd around certain topics with, some to have deep meaningful talks but you only can stand a meeting once a quarter... And you are only able to actively maintain a certain number of friendships.
I found that I don't have nearly as many "friends" as many of my peers have (being a 40-something doesn't help much either), but the friends I got are rock solid. They are kinda lopsided because I'm offering too much help most of the time without accepting much help from them - that's what I need to work on.
[+] [-] legerdemain|3 years ago|reply
Maybe you should do the things I haven't tried doing: get a dog, have children, and join BJJ, Crossfit, and a church.
[+] [-] rg111|3 years ago|reply
Just visit places of your genuine interests. And suit it to your age or don't bother at all.
- Join interesting online forums with offline presence. Be a regular in those places. It can be a book club, a chess club, a science club, coding club or anything. Be true to your interests and start visiting. Or join a fully offline one in your locality. Actively interact with new people.
- Join a class. A gym class, karate, dance, art, pottery, recreational math- doesn't matter. Join a class and be a regular. Actively interact with new people.
- Join a one-time activity group. Like building a school, Christmas drama group. You get to spend time with new people over weeks regularly.
- If you are religious or can tolerate religion, join a church, or your-religion-equivalent of it. I have seen lifelong friendships develop out of them.
- If you are politically active, or want to do so, work actively for a political party for an election. Actively interact with new people.
- Join an NGO or a charity or actively volunteer your time for a cause that you believe in. Actively interact with new people.
- Catch up with college/school friends with whom you were never that close. People change, and you might find the new-old-acquinstance quite interesting.
You see, friendships need to evolve naturally. You cannot choose or take scrupulously calculated steps.
Just spend time in an interested area, you already have one interest overlap. When you find 2/3, that person starts to look interesting.
Please let nature take its own course. You just increase your probability by mixing out with a lot more newer people.
This is my advice to "how to find a romantic partner" as well.
[+] [-] arichard123|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cod1r|3 years ago|reply
All it takes is to start talking.
Also not all friendships have to be the same.
Some are in person, some are online, some are not as frequent, some are inactive, and some might be gone.
[+] [-] sam_lowry_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] n1b0m|3 years ago|reply
I still keep in touch with and meet up with people I’ve not worked with in years.
[+] [-] TechnicolorByte|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ankaAr|3 years ago|reply
Friendship is the result to be good people, to take care of others, to be trustworthy, to be a good listener, etc. Friendship will come after that.
Maybe 1 out 100 people you meet will be a friend, and 1 out 10 will last. Anyway, they will be with you because how you are, not just with them, but with others, even when you thinks you don't have anything to offer.
Networking is just other thing, totally different.
[+] [-] hprotagonist|3 years ago|reply
.. oh, you mean now. Uh. hmm…
[+] [-] motohagiography|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soneca|3 years ago|reply
But answering your question… I was at a point of my life with 40+ years old that I thought I would never (or wanted to) make new friends. Totally ok with that. But then I decided to write a novel and enrolled in a fiction writing course.
The course had a few characteristics. It was long. Every Thursday from March to November we would meet online. The teacher had an approach of quickly summarizing a topic and leave the rest of the class for discussion. So, it was not just a bunch of people listening a lecture with the camera and mic off. We were talking with each other all the time. Also, it was a topic that everyone was very invested in and generated initiatives to continue to talk about it outside of regular Thursday classes, like a Telegram group first and then an extra-official meeting almost every Tuesday.
When you spend almost a year, talking to the same 20 people once or twice a week, about a topic you care, you create some opportunity for new friendships. So I do now, two years later, consider that I have made a few new friends.
The unlucky part is that those people are from all over the country, just one or two in my city. And, of course, for now, they are not like old friendships that I have. But, who knows, in twenty years or so they might still be around and be really close friends.
So that’s how I started new friendships
[+] [-] ineedausername|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EZ-Cheeze|3 years ago|reply
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