Ask HN: What's your approach to raising kids?

[jascination]

Worth saying up front: This isn't for a startup idea or anything like that, just keen to learn from the more-stable-than-Reddit minds of HN so I can get ideas for myself.

We have twin girls who are ~6mo old, and we're finally getting out of the "survival" stage and getting to the "parenting" stage. I'm finding that there are so many different schools of thought about absolutely everything, from pregnancy/birth to sleep training to Montessori to gentle parenting.

Specific things I'm curious about:

- Did you think about what sort of parent you'd like to be and work backwards?

- Did you think about what makes a good kid and work backwards?

- Did you align with a "style" of parenting?

- How did you use technology to help you?

- Did you keep your kids away from technology (like watching TV) for the first couple of years or just go for it?

- What would you do differently if you had your time again?

[thiago_fm]

All those "school of thought" are just trends.

Good parenthood is about being present and giving them attention, helping them understand the world and so on.

Preventing them to completely use technology is BS. Let them use them, but going back to what I've said before, you need to be present in their lives. This means if they are spending too much time with it, it's up to you to enforce limits.

But don't be a rude or too invasive parent, as they'll grow old and in around 12 years or so, they will start to judge you a lot and will become much more independent, you want them to have good childhood memories and remember that they have a supportive parent, not live full of resentment because their parents were so anal about following a trendy parenting method.

Help them to build relationship with friends and live in a safe community. Avoid having high expectations of them and just let them live peacefully their lives and make their own choices.

Let them from early on to make their own calls, even if you dislike it. This is where parents usually fail, they don't let their kids do what they want. And of course, if those calls don't work well, make sure they feel responsible for it.

Don't get them into 10 different activities, like music, swimming, football and so on, so they find their "gift" or some kind of BS. Let them do what they want and help them follow their interests.

In the end, you have much less control than you think you do.

Also, as you added 2 new human beings to the world, make sure you invest time on them. If you'll pay for a nanny, have them most of the day at school and so on and excuse yourself for doing those things to "put money at the table" or whatever excuse... start by changing yourself and finding a career that enables you to give them time.

Your time is the most precious resource you can give them.

[throw_pm23]

Agreeing with all that you say, except the claim that preventing technology is BS. If a tablet or smartphone is available it is almost always what kids will choose, if you don't make it available, they can do and learn better things.

Sure, you cannot prevent it forever, but that's not the goal, just to postpone it until they are well-equipped to handle it.

The same really with alcohol or smoking. You cannot prevent your children forever from trying it, but it is a huge difference whether they are exposed to it at 12 or 18. Nobody argues "let children drink and smoke and decide for themselves whether it is good or not".

EDIT: one important aspect is credibility and example. Kids will of course pick up on it if you are addicted to the phone, while you don't let them use it. "Do, don't tell", etc.

[rsj_hn]

Parenting strategies, like war plans, rarely survive first contact with the enemy.

[fatnoah]

> Good parenthood is about being present and giving them attention, helping them understand the world and so on

My spawn is 15 years old, and this has always been my #1 goal. In fact, it led my family to sell our house in the burbs and move downtown to a city. I worked in the city and my better half outside the city. As a result of the move, we were both about 20 minutes away from home and, unlike my previous 1 hour commute, I could be available to coach afterschool sports or do AM dropoff.

[gbrunacci]

> In the end, you have much less control than you think you do.

I love how you articulated this.

It really sums up how I feel them times I get too strict on things "because it will be good for their future". Not saying it is not necessary sometimes, but don't expect things will work as planned regardless how much you enforce it.

[mikebos]

The only thing I can add, life is not a race. Nobody want's to be the first at the finishing line. So encourage them not only to do serious stuff but also fun stuff. And don't take the serious stuff too serious, they will get there in their own time.

[Helmut10001]

> Good parenthood is about being present and giving them attention

Specifically this one - spend time with your kids is the most valuable thing you can do. To understand my own character and how my parents affected it, I liked Jesper Juul (e.g. "Your Competent Child"). Its well thought through and reflecting, starting with yourself instead of the child.

[kerpotgh]

Agree with just about everything except that preventing access to technology is BS. It’s almost certainly not and you don’t want a kid relying on a tablet for entertainment or having access to some very bad perspectives online.

[mvcatsifma]

Father of three here. This is great advice, thank you.

[leandot]

- Spend quality time with them (not browsing your phone while you pretend to play).

- Kids learn from your behavior, not from what you say. So if you tell them to clean but you don't, it won't work.

- If you want them to do something, you can spend hours arguing and pushing them with no success. But if you offer to help (even if you don't do anything really), they'll gladly do it together with you.

- Kids do not need expensive toys, I've thrown away tons of costly buys, while they choose to play with some paper packaging or a wooden stick found outside.

- Read stories every evening before you put them to bed. They will want to read later.

- Just be yourself, they don't judge.

- Also, sometimes they're just too young for what you expect them to be able to do. Until 3-4, they operate mostly on emotions.

[dsego]

> Kids learn from your behavior, not from what you say

This so much. I have a 3-yearold, it's enough to see a behavior once and they will repeat it at one point. They don't understand the reasoning behind actions, they notice patterns and learn by adopting those patterns. Eg, I marked her height with a pen on the door frame, and she used it as an excuse a few days later to draw on the wall, because daddy did it. But don't be afraid to share feelings, they sense it, so it's nice to explain when dad or mum are stressed, angry, etc, meaning try to explain feelings rather than loose your temper, shout or argue (seems self evident doesn't it, but they can push you over the edge). They will pick up on how you handle emotions...and their emotions are big, like really big, so they need to learn healthy coping mechanisms.

[dsego]

> Kids do not need expensive toys,...

Completely agree with this point. It's the bulky plastic toys that are the most wasteful. One exception for us was good quality roller blades and a good balance bike. We wanted to help our kid with her motor skills and to spend more time outside. She started riding the bicycle before the age of 2 and we go hiking as well, learning to ice skate & roller blade before age 3. A lot of other parents in our circle seem to be more protective and think it's too early for outside activities like this.

[bogle]

Reading. You can combine "learn from your behaviour" and "read stories" by showing them how much you enjoy books (by enjoying books). A good reader has so many advantages, and so much more to enjoy.

[bell-cot]

In the next year or two, try to get settled in a kid-friendly neighborhood where there are at least some good families with similar-age kids nearby. Schools need to be good, but don't obsess over the best. Try to stay there, or close enough to not upend their social lives, until they're through high school. Good, stable friendships are important for social development.

By age 3-ish, get the kids into the habit of helping with regular household chores. Yes, it'll take more time than just doing it yourself. Like teaching 'em to talk, you are investing in social development. And having real-world useful skills (vs. being a talking pampered pet) can be important to self-esteem.

Having some quality extra-curricular activities is important, but do not let yourself slip into the "my kid's doing more/bigger/better rat" race. A mix of a few stable, ongoing things (like soccer) with occasional "let's try this for a bit" stuff (say, piano lessons) can give 'em some variety, and perhaps stumble on them loving music.

From what I've seen, having at least one team sport that they enjoy is pretty important for teen girl self-esteem.

For some kids, things like travel league sports and horse shows are extremely important. But if you don't have the kind of time & money that those require, then either gently steer them away early, or be up-front with them about the economic facts. How you handle the latter is more important, long-term, than the immediate situation. Unless you're a Bezos/Musk/Gates/etc., your kids will get regular exposure (if only through social media) to other kids who are "obviously" wealthier, luckier, better looking, ...

[devnull3]

I would say do not lose sight of the big picture. The topmost responsibility of parents is: To prepare them for adult-hood.

The following cross-cuts anything the child decides to do in future:

1. Being mentally tough

    * Dealing with success & failures
    
    * Dealing with conflicts

2. Money

    * Importance of money & saving

    * Importance of investing

3. Communication skills

    * Focus on effectiveness of communication

    * Importance & ability to sell

Edit: Its fine that as a parent you might not be well versed with all of the above. I am certainly not. Learn along with them. I make my deficiency in certain things e.g ability to sell as example to my kids to not to become like me.

Edit2:

If you have male child:

   * Teach them how to be respectful towards women

If you have girl child:

   * Teach them to be financially independent

To both:

   * Teach them that beauty is not permanent. It has short shelf-life and it quickly loses its utility after ~35. All that remains in later age is personality.

[codpiece]

I strongly agree with the last points. My daughter is a very pretty and stylish engineer that has built a firm financial foundation and has no debts. Because of this, she is free to take risks that others can only dream of.

[oaktrout]

I agree especially with #1. You can see the children that were never told no and never challenged. They fail spectacularly when mom and dad aren't their to hold their hand in the real world.

[nickd2001]

"All parenting advice is BS" ... paraphrasing from a friend who had 6 kids, and says that she had to be an entirely different Mum to each of them, as what they needed / what worked, was different for each child. That said, making sure you're around for them enough not at work all the time, is very important. Reading quality books with them so they find reading a fun and exciting way to discover the world rather than a chore to make the grade in school, is good. Teaching them to "love your neighbour as yourself" while also not being a push-over, is good, leads to decent friendships, hopefully decent relationships when they grow up. That's it really. :) I think its hard for a decent loving caring adult, who listens to their kids, to screw up too badly. Sometimes you try one technique for a while and it appears to blow up in your face but works in the end, or you change tack then that works. Sometimes they'll have tantrums and express rage and disgust at you, then a bit later tell you you're the best parent in the world and that actually not letting them do "Thing X which is dangerous / bad for them" means you actually DO care about them after all. ;)

[dsego]

Our strategy so far with our 3yr old is to invest time and effort into emotional and social development. We avoid smartphones and screens, except for video calls with grandparents. We've seen the effects of "screenism" up close with relatives. After that comes physical development and skills, plastic knife, dancing, bicycle, etc. Academics is last in our list, we figure there will be a time for that later. She wants us to read bedtime stories and adores books, so there will be a desire to learn all the letters, numbers etc... One other important thing, we don't want to break her spirit, so if she doesn't want to something, we respect her boundaries when she says no. Of course, some things aren't negotiable (like brushing teeth), but it's paramount for her to have a sense of control and autonomy (giving choices is also important). Eg, if I pick her up, but she protests, I will apologize for not asking first. Sometimes these little things matter to them a lot.

[randomifcpfan]

For twins specifically, have them checked for congenital muscular torticollis. Ours suffered from that and we only caught it due to an observant mother at a playground. It’s easily correctable if caught young.

Raised three kids, each had a different personality, learning style, needs, strengths, interests.

Suggest you observe your kids and figure out what works for each of them. One size does not fit all.

For us, co-sleeping worked well.

We tried toilet training one kid too early. Pointless stress. Six months later they had no problems.

We let our kids have computers, tablets and phones early, but confiscated them each night to encourage sufficient sleep. One kid borrowed a hand-me-down Gameboy from a friend to get around this. Only caught them because it showed up on our WiFi.

IMO screen time limiting apps do not work well. Kids are creative at circumventing them and are happy to play whatever games are available to them. Confiscation works well.

We bought them quality devices and quality cases. They only broke a couple screens over the years. “Find my device” was very helpful.

Beats headphones absolutely suck for reliability.

Only one tech-related regret so far: in the first year of high school we accidentally let one child play too many computer games, which tanked their grades for a semester, which messed up their chances of attending our over-subscribed state university system (which admits almost solely based on unweighted high school GPA.) They had to attend a much more expensive, somewhat lower ranked, out-of-state school. They did well there, but it was an expensive mistake.

[viraptor]

The best thing I learned from a lot of kids in the friends group is that all kids are different, do things in different ways, and develop at different rate, so... just go with the flow. Most things are ok if they work for both kids and parents. What I learned from a group of doctor friends is that a lot of bad stuff comes from parents trying too hard. (like if you keep waking up while cosleeping maybe the problem itself is that you're trying to cosleep with a 1yo)

I've also learned to pretty much ignore books that aren't based on large enough numbers. There's so many "here's how to deal with kids written by someone with experience with their 3 kids" which just doesn't generalise.

TV as such, we're avoiding as a family anyway. But if the kid is sick and nothing helps... A tablet with Octonauts can save the day.

[lawgimenez]

As a father of an autistic kid, the only thing I can say is that be present and spend quality time as much as you can. Even if it is just an hour of you and your kid doing nothing, staring at nothing, playing at the same old toy. That hour of play will mean the world to your children. The more present you are as a parent, the less fussy as the kid grows up.

[Cerpicio]

Lots of good advice so far. I'd like to add some more thoughts.

My wife and I have two biological children and then adopted a young boy (15, 11, and 3), with some fostering in-between.

We've had some extremely stubborn/strong-willed kids. At some point you will be at your wits-end, tired and out of patience. Just take a break and pick your battles. Is the argument/situation worth all of the hassle you are current going through? I don't think you should always give-in to your kids, but you don't want to keep escalating the situation over something minor.

As others have said, spend time on the floor playing with them. Read to them at bedtime.

Try not to yell and scream. One young child we had would match our energy level. If we yelled, he'd yell, and we'd get nowhere. If we stayed calm, we could usually work things out.

If they are in the middle of a meltdown, they probably aren't hearing what you are saying. Yelling at them some more isn't going to calm them down.

Keep in mind that they are learning and will push limits. They currently don't have the mental or emotional tools to deal with most things they are going through. Try to see from their point of view. They are going to see how much they can get away with. Parents need to set the boundaries and enforcement.

Be consistent.

I have many more thoughts but I had better stop here. Good luck and enjoy the process!

[boopboopbadoop]

A lot of great points. Mostly though I just want to say kudos on the fostering/adopting, I’d like to do the same one day.

[john_the_writer]

When my twins were about 6 months old I started reading to them before bed. 12 years later, I still read to them every night before bed. They are avid readers, and that has helped them so much in school. It is a routine that helped them settle and instilled a love for reading. (point of pride, I've missed < 21 days in 12 years)

TV on weekends, but not after school. No tablets or smart phones.

Kindle readers are their only tech.. This saves on the cost of physical books.

"The wolf cares not for fair." My kids know that life is not always fair.

Oh.. twin tricks. Alternating days one kid is "the leader" this means they get to pick the activities or what's for lunch ect. It also means they (as the leader) have to feed the dog and pick up the poop. Being a leader comes with power and responsibilities. Also they make deals with each other, because tomorrow they will not be the leader. When they have a disagreement, you simply have to say "Who's the leader?" and tada fight over.

Net safety. https://rickriordan.com/series/kane-chronicles/ Knowing someones real name (their REN) give the evil people power. Good books and you can use it to teach your kids about privacy.

Now.. not a style thing, but when you go through potty training get your kids CROKS. Pee on leather shoes does not wash off. Crocks a mall sink and a paper towel, and you're back to happy.

[franze]

I became a father the first time when I was 20. The second time when I was 30. So based on my sample size of 2 and after some trial and error error error and debugging:

- Learn how to think, talk and act with empathy. To your kids, yourself and your partner. I use the Non Violent Communication Framework by Rosenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

- Understand that outspoken and non-outspoken family rules must suit the situation, be flexible, based on empathy and revisited when situations change. A.k.a. you get wiser, your kids gets older or when sh#it happens. I recommend the approach from Virginia Satir https://www.amazon.com/New-Peoplemaking-Virginia-Satir/dp/08... the inventor of familiy therapy

- If you want to be good enough parents, go on vacations (at least weekends) without your kids - from time to time, at least every half year. Your adult couple relationship is the RAM your adult parent-family-relationship needs to function. If your RAM runs out, then there is a high risk of a crash.

Note: Totally subjective nerd thoughts.

[unkoman]

Children start with yourself. You will not ever be a perfect parent, so be kind to yourself and your partner. I know I've failed multiple times, but I at least try to live by the Reggio Emilia [1] approach:

The most important thing is to listen to your children and understand their needs, interests and ideas, and use them as the basis for learning and exploration. It is so much easier to foster them when you focus on their interests.

Recognize real accomplishments, document them and reflect on them with the children. Sometimes we just look at their first steps together.

We also have tried to create an environment where they can fail until they learn. As we say in the business "Fail fast" and encourage their independence by providing opportunities for them to make choices, solve problems, and take initiative. Even if the choice is "Do you want to eat carrots or broccoli with your dinner today?".

One thing that I need to improve on is to create opportunities our kids to interact with others (mostly due to Covid/the pandemic). Now that they are in preschool we see that they learn so much faster from others in their own age.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggio_Emilia_approach

[codpiece]

Be there for your kids. We made career choices that prioritized our time with our children so we could be present, to the point that one major publishing firm knew I would be cooking dinner if they called me after 430pm.

Be fully present when you play with them. Really PLAY with them. Kids know when you are not paying attention.

Set firm boundaries. I once read that everything is new and novel for a child, so having firm routines and boundaries are comforting because they have a place that is safe and unchanging. You are not their friend, you are their parent. You might notice that people who try to be friends with their kids tend to spend little time with them...

Be a good and non-judgmental listener when they get older. They need you more at 14 than they do when they're 3, and the stakes are much higher.

Finally, be the person you want them to be. When my son was younger, I was obese, drinking, out of shape, whiney, unkempt and emotionally unstable. One day I realized that it didn't matter what I said, he watched who I was, and my words and actions didn't match up. I quit drinking, started weightlifting, went to a therapist. Funnily enough, these changes launched me out of a rut and into a much more fulfilling career. My son did model me, and now, when he struggles, I can talk to him about overcoming my challenges and it relates.

The most important thing to realize is your time with them is finite and you need to fiercely protect yourself against demands that take you away from giving them your full attention. You cannot comprehend how quickly your time with them at home goes by. You cannot reverse time. Your time is the only gift you have to give to your children.

[petodo]

> I would be cooking dinner if they called me after 430pm.

When is your dinner time? We have dinner at 6PM and I feel like freak to have dinner so early here in Europe and putting my kids to bed around 7:30, at latest before 8PM.

[stranded22]

Excellent questions!

My wife stayed home with my son, so we didn’t need to get childcare- she didn’t have a high paying job nor a career, so it worked for us. It did mean going without for somethings, but we didn’t feel the need to buy stuff for him to make up missing time.

He went to a Montessori preschool (kindergarten) from about 3 years old. It matched my philosophy, in the sense of treating him like a mini adult rather than a toddler.

Primary school is a smaller (1.5-2 form years) which suited his personality.

Sports wise, a bit of swimming and some running occasionally.

We didn’t allow him to watch any screens for the 1st year, but now are a lot more relaxed.

Much like training dogs, where it’s the owner that requires the changing - I have changed a fair bit. My dad travelled a lot when I was a kid, so I didn’t see much of him when growing up - and when I did see him, he’d be drinking. So, I decided to be a positive role model - stopped drinking alcohol, regularly running/going to the gym and giving my son as much time as I can.

There isn’t much I’d change tbh - he seems content and confident in himself. Kind, shares well (this took a few years, ofc - it isn’t natural to share your favourite toy!).

[once_inc]

Structure is important. Kids always attempt to overshoot boundaries or limits, and as they grow older, they get increasingly cunning at that. Toddlers often try crying or hysterics, which gradually morphs into argumentation (I didn't have a cookie yesterday, so I should have an extra one today), which morphs into subterfuge (either grabbing them when your aren't present, or first asking one parent, then the next).

Enforcing boundaries and limits is (in my opinion) one of the key aspects of parenthood, combined with clear explanations on why those boundaries exist. Careful moderation of boundaries leads to kids that aren't prone to outbursts (since those have no effect on you) and grounds them to reality.

Telling kids about how the world works or giving them information about history or science is a blast and careful insertion of total bullshit leads to them being critical of what they are told, and to question information handed to them. Obviously, you need to be overt with the bullshit at the beginning, and work your way into more subtle bullshit as they age to keep them on their toes. :-)

[MrTortoise]

Kids wont listen to you kids don't care how much you have thought about something the way you are has more to do with who you are not what you think and the way they will be is more like what you are Your kids spend most of their time with people who are not you

control and choice is an illusion that follows a chain of high pressure, highly emotional situations.

Get a dog - learn to train it. Having kids is like that - except its cleverer than you, doesn't want to make you happy all the time and wages psychological warfare to figure out how to get what it wants at all times. Or at least the fun kids that will make you wish you had a plan in retrospect will.

When you have a second kid you will do things differently - you will be wrong then too. good luck

your kids wont like what you do - they are not you and they will value different things to you.

Help them discover that and support that - unless they don't want to. they wont.

My best advice would be to get good at minecraft.

[shrikant]

> - Did you think about what makes a good kid and work backwards?

Others have made some great points, so I'll just address this one.

I would not necessarily recommend doing this, unless you're able to have a high degree of confidence in the causality of your parents' approach/behaviours/ to raising you. Otherwise it leads a lot to the "my parents beat me and I turned out fine"-type thinking which is -- IMHO -- flawed and illogical.

I'd like to think I turned out mostly fine, but my current life circumstances are so wildly different from my childhood that it's basically impossible to isolate confounding factors, and therefore use that as any sort of sound basis on which to raise my kid.

Edit: I just realised I answered the question "Did you think about what makes [YOU] a good kid and work backwards?" instead of what you actually asked. My apologies for misreading, but I'll leave my soapbox up!

[orwin]

You can't make a good kid. And you will fail at parenting. The technique is to fail slowly and get better.

But I have great parents and used to be an educator, so here are my tips:

listen, aknowledge, and explain why not. If you are good at making stuff up on the fly, you will avoid public crisis. Else you will get shamed, but you don't have to care.

Be yourself, and be one model for the kid. That means a bit of hiding disagreements. And teaming up with your SO against your children.

Do stuff with them, while leaving them alone (I'm an OK educator, kayakist and woodworker thanks to my dad, and know a lot about hospitals teaching and nursing thanks to my mom, still I am a SWE most of the time.). Like I said, you will fail.

Support them when they fuck up. Being there is often enough. Good luck.

And do not hesitate to make stuff up. I've visited a dozen tombs, saved an island and got rid of a pirate between the ages of 6 and 14, and nobody can make me think otherwise.

[MandieD]

When you're at your wits' end, remember that your primary job is to keep them from killing/permanently injuring themselves, and that they will manage to injure themselves anyway. You will be amazed at how profoundly stupid they can be about some things (slipping off a chair they fell off of 5 minutes ago) and yet brilliant about others (figuring out how to get a baby gate open).

Just being around them, talking to them, letting them "help" cook and clean, and providing some board books that you also read to them (they might not sit still and listen until age 2 or so, don't worry) will set them up for learning the rest in due time.

Personally, I kept my 2.5-year-old kid away from video until he was nearly two, then started letting him watch a carefully curated list of downloaded non-violent nature videos on an old laptop when I need him distracted (like when I'm dealing with stuff in the oven). Neither of us watched much TV before he came along, so leaving it off wasn't a sacrifice. We ended up wall-mounting it over the piano we got due to some serious scope-creep on "how high to mount TV the kid is about to pull over on himself". Result? My husband got back into playing the piano, and the kid has gotten mostly past the banging random keys phase into picking one and sticking with it for a few seconds.

If he acts up when I stop the video, the laptop gets put away and doesn't come out again for a few days.

I do not intentionally let him handle my phone or tablet, and despite that, he knows how to swipe and tap, so I'm not worried about him not being able to use a tablet once/if it's required by the time he starts school.

From how he acted the few times he's been exposed to modern child-targeted media (the constant stream of Disney Jr. at his American cousins' house), I will continue to keep that sort of content to being a "not at home" thing. I don't care if he sees it at someone else's house, and I'll probably start bringing him to the movies when I think he can sit still for an hour or so, because he needs to know something about the culture his peers are marinating in.