Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

[pramaanik]

Some say it's a technical limitation for heat management, memory management. While some others say it's to escape the additional tax that applies if a camera is classified as a video camera, the latter being defined as something that records beyond 30 minutes.

What's the true reason?

[donatj]

Like most head scratchers, it’s EU taxes.

The import taxes are higher on video cameras than still cameras, so they artificially limit the length of videos you can record to avoid being classified as a video camera.

> Video camera recorders are subject to import duty of 4.9% or 14%, still image cameras are duty free.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2016-00127...

(Update: included better link)

[2OEH8eoCRo0]

In Nathan For You, they try to dodge export taxes on smoke detectors by classifying them as a musical instrument. They went as far as creating a band with a "hit song" that features a smoke detector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN_ElpaabJU

[schrijver]

Seems like that tax has been scrapped though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B9GLrJoUA8 So like other commenters point out, at this point it’s more likely to be market segmentation. Sony and Canon, for example, make professional video cameras that are very similar to their photo cameras, but have extra video-centric features i.e. built-in ND filters, connectors for professional battery packs, XLR audio connectors etc. They want to give users extra reasons to buy these models (although Sony apparently removed the limit recently, so looks like they’re moving away from this strategy).

[crazygringo]

That reminds me of how Converse Chuck Taylors have a small layer of fuzz on the bottom of the sole that wears away after a wearing it for a bit.

Seemed totally bizarre, until you learn that it was so they can be classified as "slippers" which had a much smaller import tax than sneakers.

It still astonishes me that a legal hack like that works.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/style/shoes-boots/a715423/convers...

[FoomFries]

It’s always interesting to find what businesses will do to lower these. My favorite is Converse sneakers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-converse-sneakers-...

[pjc50]

The American version is trucks that have extra seats added which are then removed once imported, ready to be used on the next truck to be imported.

[theshrike79]

So this is like Sony adding Linux as an option to the PS3 to make it a "general computing device" instead of a "game console" and getting a lower duty percentage?

[amelius]

This is almost as stupid as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

[randomdata]

That may explain why it is exactly 30 minutes, but, despite some counterexamples, that we don't see more product differentiation enabling the consumer to choose between a camera with the limit and an "upgraded" model (i.e. the same camera with the limit disabled) suggests that underlying that the manufacturer recognizes that the consumer would rather buy under-specced hardware that can't handle much more than 30 minutes of recording than pay more for a design that had the engineering effort to handle unlimited recording put into it. Those who truly have a need for unlimited recording are likely to want something video-centric in design anyway.

I expect the answer is all of the above and more.

[bradwood]

Finally. The first _good_ reason for Brexit.

[joenot443]

Funny how bureaucratic nonsense from a comparatively small population can have such a ripple effect across a global industry.

Folks all over the world have to settle for an inferior product specifically because EU wanted a slightly juicier import tariff. It's cases like this I'm sympathetic to my more libertarian countrymen. Who genuinely thinks the consumer is better off because of these 'protections'?

[4wsn]

But why are there such high import duties for something they don't even manufacture? There's no domestic industry to give an advantage to through this.

[account42]

> The Commission is not aware of technical limitations to those devices developed by the industry to evade import duties.

Maybe they should read Hacker News.

[re9]

Some still cameras with video features also do actually lack in heat dissipation department and may really shut down because they overheat. Sometimes earlier than said 30 minute limit kicks in.

And say you use slow memory card in your otherwise capable camera... I have one here, which is allowing me to capture, depending on subject, 4-15 seconds of video. It just cant write stuff onto memory card fast enough and fills its memory buffer and then its done. With proper fast flash card, same camera runs up to 29:59 and with certain tweaks, until flash card is full.

[pilsetnieks]

Some of the first Canon DSLRs that did video had a 5 minute limit. On the one hand, I guess they didn't want to cannibalize their video camera offerings but on the other they did actually get very noticeably hot.

[staticman2]

The question is based on a misconception. Here's what my particular camera can do, the Fujifilm X-T5, from dpreview.com:

"Fujifilm says the camera can shoot 6.2K/30 video for 90 minutes or 4K/60p for 60 minutes at 25°C (77°F); these numbers drop significantly at higher temperatures, and there's no option to add a fan to compensate."

Here's what the next more expensive, slightly bigger camera can do the Fujifilm X-h2, from Cameralabs.com

"Also inherited from the X-H2S is unlimited internal recording, sailing past the previous half hour limit and also without overheating issues in my tests. I made five separate recordings, each starting with a full battery, and was able to record between 100 and 120 minutes in any format from 1080 to 8k before the battery expired. In each case at the end of the recording, the camera had become very warm behind the screen, but showed no warning of overheating. Battery power was the limiting factor in these tests.

All my tests were made at room temperature in the UK, but if you’re filming under hotter conditions and experiencing overheating, you can extend your recording times by fitting an optional fan accessory. As seen here on the S version, this simply screws into the back of the body when the screen’s folded out – not particularly elegant, but it will extend your times."

It seems to me it's clearly an issue of heat management in a small form factor since an optional fan accessory extends the film length in the higher end camera.

[chrismorgan]

It’s definitely not universal.

A few years back I had a Sony DSC-HX90V (basically their best compact camera), purchased in Australia, that was capped at 20 minutes. (I discovered this by losing most of an hour-long session. I don’t believe this limitation was documented, as I did read its manual and would expect to have remembered that.)

I understand the Sony α6000 generation (mirrorless; α6000, α6300, α6500) had a mixture of limitations: in many situations, around a 20 minute cap due to file system or file format limits, thermal limits that would often shut it down well before that, and a hard limit of “approximately 29 minutes” for unstated reasons I will not speculate on.

The α6100 generation (α6100, α6400, α6600) lacks all these limitations. I purchased one in India. Its battery allows it to record for around 80 minutes, and with power via Micro-USB I’ve recorded for 100 minutes in an ambient temperature of over 40°C on multiple occasions, and five hours once for a test.

[aposm]

Heat management, the EU import tax, all of those are certainly small factors. But the main reason is absolutely market segmentation: if you want to record "professional" video content, better buy a professional video camera for a higher price. It's that simple.

[hmsp]

Heat buildup cause a lot of noise to appear in the image.

New cameras are overcoming this with fans. Look at the just realeased Sony fx30 or the Panasonic S5ii. Both have built in fans to aid in cooling getting them unlimited record times.

I shoot with a sigma FP that has no recording limit and no fan. It is designed as basically a giant heat sink. It also has some of the lowest amounts of noise of any camera.

I’m sure the eu thing comes into play in hitting that 30 minute mark but it’s probably a convenient choice of time limit when solving the heat buildup issue.

FWIW I’ve followed film cameras closely for years and have never heard of this EU law while all reviews etc talk about heat buildup because it is so detrimental to image quality.

[netaustin]

Lots of the comments here get at the reason, which is import taxes, but there's confusion about the impact of it on the high-end camera market. Most professional setups that use "still" cameras are running them into a video mixer (like Blackmagic ATEM) which connects to a computer. You can record directly onto disk and stream live at the same time using free software like OBS. The camera just sits with its shutter open but doesn't record anything, thus there's no time limit. The Sony A7 series is quite popular for this application. What I'm describing is kind of the tip of the iceberg in terms of video capture complexity.

[petodo]

EU tax for videocameras vs still cameras

Though I wonder who needs to record more than 30 minutes in one take? Seems like extremely niche scenario even with videocameras.

I remember Ukraine or Russia had for many years even crazier tax on cars which were improted partially disassembled and then assembled locally to avoid much higher import tax on completely assembled car, but can't find it now. Seems it was scratched after they joined WTO,m before there was like 30% import tax on cars.

[mcrib]

recording longer than 30min is primarily for if you're recording an event (longer than 30min, like a sports match) and being able to leave the camera in a fixed location without having to go back and forth

[staticman2]

Not all cameras stop recording after 30 minutes. That's a topic for camera reviews.

[lyu07282]

Can't you still grab the HDMI signal without such limitation?

[post_break]

If the camera outputs clean HDMI, yes.

[Mildlypolite]

The fact is when you are recording a good quality video you never go over a few minutes of recording. So usually it doesn't bother film makers too much.

If you're recording a live opera it's a problem but then you usually have much higher quality gear without the limitations of a DSLR.

[TexanFeller]

> The fact is when you are recording a good quality video you never go over a few minutes of recording

I've made home sex tapes longer than 30 minutes, imagine stopping in the middle to start a new file on the camera! Or imagine someone filming the birth of their child and failing to capture it because the camera timed out at an inopportune moment.

[azangru]

What if you are recording a conference or a lecture? May easily go over 30 minutes; does not always need theatrical quality.