Tell HN: LinkedIn has one of the worst dark patterns I have seen on the web

[paxys]

I checked my LinkedIn recently, and then hit the Sign Out button (a very common action with decades of precedence about how it should work, one would rightfully expect). Instead of just getting signed out, I was presented with a modal with two options – “Remember and sign out” and simply “Sign out”. The former of course was the primary action with a strong blue background, while the latter was grayed out. There was no more info about what the two actually meant other than a “learn more” link going to a separate help page.

But hold on, you are probably thinking, “remembering” is the exact opposite of logging someone out. And you would be correct, because the default outcome of LinkedIn’s “Sign Out” button keeps your session fully active in the browser, and the next time you visit the site you can directly open your account without any form of authentication.

It is an obvious example of growth hacking gone out of control, and while some PM can now demonstrate higher retention numbers on their way to a promotion, users are stuck with a more convoluted and insecure experience on the site.

[lordnacho]

Here's another dark pattern:

OVO energy in the UK. They will direct debit you, and take your money. Over time, you build up a large credit balance because you don't use the gas and electricity that much.

So you go on their webpage, and there's a refund section. It says you need a direct debit to get the refund.

You click through to get the refund.

It says you need to call them.

You call them. Guy says he needs a photo of the meter, reasonable enough. But also he says he's limited in how much he can refund. You'll have to call again tomorrow.

You send the email with the photos.

You get back an email. They can refund you, but it's a cheque. You have to go to the bank, in a week when the cheque actually arrives, to get your refund. They can't just pay you with the bank account details you already gave them.

[WirelessGigabit]

When I moved oversees I moved to a place which has digital meters with SIM-cards for gas, electricity and water.

I get billed what I use. I have a maximum of 30 days delay to learn whether I have a gas/water leak somewhere or whether my neighbor is 'using' my electricity to grow his 'herbs'.

And overall, this saves everybody money. I can track my usage more closely, and the companies don't need to pay meter-people anymore.

[prakhar897]

"Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Win+L" opens linkedIn if you're using Windows.

[3-cheese-sundae]

I didn't believe you, then I didn't want to believe you, then I checked, and it sure does.

[sergiotapia]

I thought you were bullshitting me but damn, this is real.

[MerelyMortal]

The "?trk=" URL tracking element says "Officekey". I wonder if the keycombo works on machines without Office installed.

[rootsudo]

Wow it really works. Time to run process explorer and do a deep dive to hot keys and the windows registry. Z

Just wow.

[callalex]

How on earth is that even legal??

[sratner]

At least it opens in default browser, and not hardcoded to Edge like other system stuff.

[acheong08]

Is this hard coded? That seems insane (on Linux btw so can’t test)

[morkalork]

Know any other fun short cuts like that?

[AdmiralAsshat]

Dear god.

[leosanchez]

How did you even find that out ? :)

[avgDev]

Being a software dev has destroyed my sanity.

This is a bit off-topic I guess, but I am growing so frustrated with dark patterns on the web and in life in general that I really want to build a cabin somewhere in a small rural area and throw my electronics in the trash. Just pay for basic services like electric. And only talk to people who I already know.

Buying a car? Full of dark patterns. Gap insurance, bs fees, bs options. Buying internet? Full of dark patterns. Bundles cheaper than just net. WiFi for extra charge. Web is just all dark patterns turned to 100.

If you don't know your stuff there are people everywhere just looking to take you for a ride, and sell you garbage you don't want or need.

Bleh.

[TooKool4This]

The financialization of everything to extract incremental value is exhausting. I feel its also very detrimental to society when every positive interaction has to involve money.

Go to a theme park: buy a ticket. Then have the option to buy a fast-pass otherwise you will be in line all day. But wait, that only covers certain attractions and other ones need a faster fast-pass. [1]

Food delivery: pay a fee to the delivery network, separate tip for the driver. Then some places will hide a fee by raising the prices of things ordered through the delivery network vs. calling in. Then how much you tip might determine if your food arrives warm or cold. [2]

And so many more examples.

I've started patronizing businesses and products that don't nickel and dime at every step. I guess the easiest thing to do is vote with our wallets.

[1] https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/ [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/doordash-tips-orders-take-lo...

[totallywrong]

Same here. I have completely lost all interest in new tech, devices, trends, etc. Using anything today is an excercise of finding out all the different ways it's trying to screw you over.

[carapace]

You're not insane.

> build a cabin somewhere in a small rural area and throw my electronics in the trash

That's a reasonable response to what we're seeing today.

We are effectively in a phase of history where the folks that are good at making money have abstracted most of the rest of the economy beyond the point where it harms the fundamental purpose of human activity in the first place.

For example, car companies are actually finance companies that use cars as the substrate (I almost said "vehicle") for extracting more money from consumers.

We are being fought by large AIs (corporations are AIs that use humans for neurons.)

To a first approximation, "Tune in, turn on, and drop out." is a good response.

Take a breather, re-examine your relations with the economy and technology, design a better life, and go live that.

[gnulinux]

This is exactly me, I relate with this so much in so many layers.

I feel completely out of control and it feels like no matter how hard I try, no matter how diligently I plan things out, everything everywhere get worse all at the same time. If my tools were working N out out of M today, they will work N-1 out of M tomorrow and it's impossible for anything to get better.

It feels like any electronics I interact with are maddening nowadays. Yesterday, me and my partner needed to set up a timer for 1 hour, I set up it through our dumb kitchen timer, and my partner was wondering why I didn't use my phone timer. Look you don't understand EVEN LOOKING AT MY PHONE is a fucking nightmare at this point because there are going to be N notifications that need my attention.

[hackerbeat]

I remember how this clip got like a 100M views in just two weeks: https://youtu.be/skcqFTi3s_A?si=JhrW-bATyPKt5H5c - many folks must be feeling this way.

[mutecipher]

I'm very "happy" to see that I'm not the only person sharing this sentiment.

[rswskg]

another examples - Amazons results for simple products are just filled with trash

[selectnull]

As someone who has actively avoided LinkedIn, I've decided to give it a chance after all.

First, I wanted to disable all email notifications. For each type of notification event, I had to click and disable it (while leaving in-app notifications on).

Then I wanted to install mobile app. There is "Get the app" link which is cool but when you click it, you get a prompt to enter the phone number with this message: "Note: Standard SMS fees may apply. Your phone number will not be saved."

Do I trust you that you will not save my number? I don't think so. Do I want you to give you my number? Definitely not (fully understanding that they probably already have it by accessing the contact list of all users that they gave the permission to). Why don't you email me the link to download the app, if not just giving me the link?

LinkedIn and me have not started on good terms.

[MerelyMortal]

I've unsubscribed from them in the past, then 6 months later they start spamming me. I unsubscribe again, then 6 months after that they start spamming me again.

Whomever is doing this at LinkedIn is despicable scum.

[floatrock]

LinkedIn email unsubscribes are a masterclass in dark patterns. Ambiguous-state toggles, need to change options individually, tons of notifications types with individual sub-modals for every class of notification...

Some dark patterns you can reasonably chalk up to incompetence. LinkedIn notifications has too many of these perfectly integrated to come to any conclusion other than some PM spent enough effort on it that Kafka himself would proudly hand them a promotion.

[buggeryorkshire]

I've turned off every email notification from LI. Which is difficult as they add new ones and opt you in, plus they move the notifications around so when you click unsubscribe on an email you need to click on every option to find the one you need to turn off.

But... you can turn off notifications of new messages. However you cannot turn off notifications of replies, despite the email having an unsubscribe option at the bottom (which takes you to what is described in the paragraph above)

LI is a rats nest of dark patterns.

[prirai]

I remember disabling email notifications for every email type as they became annoying at a point and anyways I could directly use the website and I didn't want to clutter my inbox. But guess what, the emails kept coming even now but these were some special kinds of emails which had no importance if at all.

[whatamidoingyo]

GitHub also does something similar. Both Microsoft products. Very annoying. If I click log out, log me out, don't make me click the button again, staying logged in if I don't. Disaster.

[rickstanley]

I had a frustrating experiência with Outlook login, some time ago.

I wanted to log into my MS account in a new computer. I expected the usage of their trash app, the Authenticator, to validate my credentials, but instead I was met with a message saying that I had set up a "Github log in" thing. I actually didn't know what it was, but I couldn't find anything related to it in the Authenticator app nor could I log into GitHub to check this "configuration" out, but I couldn't, because I needed access to my email account, which is what I was trying to achieve in the first place, to receive the confirmation code. A login loop hell.

Long story short, I don't remember how I did it, maybe I got access to a browser that was still logged into my GitHub account and I deleted my account, with 7 years worth of data and work, without hesitation. Never felt better. Not going to put my personal repositories there ever again.

Come to think about it... The only thing left to relieve myself of Microsoft burdens is to move my OneDrive data to another thing, maybe an HD, and move my most critical accounts tied to MS to another provider. Now that will feel extremely good.

[matthewdgreen]

Also please don't make me log in again (on a new device) to unsubscribe from emails.

[not_your_vase]

If this is one of the worst dark patterns you have seen on the web, count your blessings. You are one of the luckiest men online. Seriously.

[prometheus76]

Here's an article from Microsoft forums on how to disable this "feature" in windows: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/disabl...

[ravenstine]

What's the next best alternative to LinkedIn? It seems like, even in 2023, LinkedIn is still the de facto online resume for everyone. The ability to apply to jobs in one click is great, but everything else about LinkedIn is repulsive to me. I don't want a social media feed, or for people to see whether I viewed their profile (if they pay premium or guess by what company you work for), or a bunch of worthless notifications, or a half-assed PDF resume generator that's barely maintained, or "sponsored" messages from jackoff recruiters, and on and on and on. There needs to be some competition in this space, right?

[OnionBlender]

LinkedIn's search drives me nuts. If I search for something specific like "Vulkan", I get flooded with "promoted" job postings that don't contain the word I searched for.

[bzbz]

I think you may be misinterpreting it. Was there an option to log into another account after you clicked “Sign out and Remember”?

Being able to switch between two accounts seems useful in the context of:

1. A recruiter signing out in order to sign into the profile of their CEO/Eng Director to send recruiting messages on their behalf.

2. A marketing person signing out in order to sign in to the company account.

[paxys]

I have no other LinkedIn account, so no.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

> It is an obvious example of growth hacking gone out of control, and while some PM can now demonstrate higher retention numbers on their way to a promotion, users are stuck with a more convoluted and insecure experience on the site.

I'm not actually following; how does any of this benefit MS? It's not like having a few extra cookies makes you more likely to use the site.

[mrlonglong]

Their captcha is dreadful too.

[morkalork]

So in other words, it's just closing the tab? Lmao

[carlosjobim]

How big % of people sign out every time they are done for the day with a web page? I would suppose it is a certain percentage that go through the ritual of cold booting their computer, signing in to Windows, opening the web browser, signing in to websites they use by typing their username and password, and then signing out from each website before turning off the computer for the day.

These people will think the "Remember and sign out" option is a blessing, and won't bother LinkedIn staff about forgotten passwords and problems signing in.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

If they want to not have to log back in, why would they log out?