It's such a subtle movie, that it works on multiple levels at the same time. I got to level 2 on the first viewing, but only years later assimilated level 3.
At level 1 it's a simple Romcom movie - boy stuck in a time loop needs to earn girl's love.
Level 2 is that we are all stuck in a time loop. Everyone is functionally living the same day over and over. Same job, same relationships, same everything. (There's even a scene in the movie where Phil describes his predicament and thd barfly replies "welcome to my life".)
Level 3 is even more meta. Because Phil is the only person -not- living the same day. All around him everyone else is the same, but he's evolving. We see him learning piano, and ice-sculpting and so on. He evolves emotionally, and is trying new things. He moves from being self-centred to focused on others.
The genius of the movie, and Murray's performance, is that it's buried, never forced. You're left to figure it out yourself. It's a work of art, disguised as something trivial.
Virtually all films follow that pattern. Read any textbook about screenwriting, and they'll tell you that 1 any movie has an overarching theme (here is routine life), and 2 all characters need to follow some kind of evolution arc (Phil goes from being the worst cynist to actually becoming a good guy). It's quite hardwired in how hollywood makes movies.
While as a kid I would say that I wanted to be downloaded into a video game when I died, the idea that was already the case never even entered my mind.
Even after watching the movie, I was just like "oh man, that's such a neat idea" but still didn't think it was actually the case.
It wasn't until years later reading Nick Bostrom's work that I started to seriously entertain it, and only then as I considered it more seriously (and as things progressed in parallel) that it became a predominant belief.
But for a movie to set in motion a complete shift in how one sees the world and their place in it is a pretty remarkable accomplishment, even if it still required a ton of additional pieces thereafter to arrive.
Have you watched Upload on Amazon Prime? Instead of being born into a simulation, like in The Matrix, we can choose to enter one upon death, effectively becoming immortal.
Both of these were written stories first, but I first encountered them as movies.
Arrival. I really enjoyed the idea that learning something new could lead to other changes in perception that you wouldn’t think are related. It also led me to other works from Ted Chiang, each of which brought unexpected mind bending concepts.
Solaris. Teaches the lesson that we need to accept that there may be things we just aren’t able to understand.
I would strong suggest reading the Ted Chiang short story on which it is based: Stories of your Life.
Spoilers ahead:
The movie necessarily makes some changes and adds some action through geopolitics, but at its core it remains the story of a mother that knows that her child will die and her marriage will fall apart; yet she still decides to get married and have a child. It's a story about accepting fate and the ephemerality of life and happiness - and then aliens also happen to be around with a very cool perspective on time to make the whole story work.
Solaris (2002), Soderbergh's love story in space, is one of my favs. (I watched the Russian adaption and didn't have the same reactions) The plot of human inner life juxtaposed with non-Terran nature flips the script for antagonist--the enemy is within us and humans did not evolve to be in space. Cliff Martinez's soundtrack is, for me, right up there with Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
There are a number of movie directors who really deliver a cinematic experience and mess with your head: David Cronenberg, Terry Gilliam, David Lynch, Quentin Tarantino, to name a few contemporaries. I return to a handful of their films again and again. Many very re-watchable.
I think it's worth adding here a few playwrights who have made films scripts: Stephen Poliakoff and David Mamet.
I want to shout out to a classic director: Michelangelo Antonioni. He flipped my lid. He really captures something for me with his cinematography and the quiet emotional tension he gets from his actors. Blow Up (1966), LaAvventura (1960) are my favs.
But there is also a scene (which I cannot find online) where the main character (a playwright) is explaining that the only way to make his play work is to make everybody a main character. He realizes that everybody, everywhere, is living out a rich life and that they're the main character of that life.
It is a fantastic movie and i highly recommend it.
I love Philip Seymour Hoffman (RIP), but I found Synecdoche, New York to be sooo incredibly anti-interesting in its multiple layers of ironically unironic self-indulgence that I really truly hated the film.
I have never had such a strongly negative reaction to any other movie. I'm having trouble thinking of a somehwat-close second. Maybe Blue Velvet?
If I heard someone else say that, I'd imagine that they had missed something, or just didn't "get it", but I don't think that's the case! :)
I knew a guy who worked on that film and still didn't know what it was about. I personally enjoy the scene where she's touring a house with a broker while it's on fire.
I grew up in a rough neighborhood, in high school my view was limited and I thought there is no going out of trouble, being a black sheep of the family, etc. I saw that movie, and I felt hope for the first time and started making changes for myself.
That's such a fantastic movie. Of course Will is a special case and is a gifted person, but the line at the bar early in the movie:
> You wasted $150,000 on an education you could've got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.
Is just fantastic. A public library isn't a complete replacement for a college education, but in terms of knowledge gained, books are the _core_ of learning. Most of the learning I did in college came from reading a text book, or the instructor going over information in the text book. Assignments are important to help apply ideas, but many books have problem sets too.
Books (and other resources like video these days) are such an incredibly valuable resource and we've done a great job at making them available via libraries (of course there are the issues we hear about with publishers trying to fight against libraries, but in general, libraries are still fantastic). Reading has been a key to my educating myself post university. The only thing more valuable that I've found is real world experience.
Male grief is never portrayed with the kind of nuance and empathy that it deserves.
Now, I've started reaching out to my friends more often and offering support in a manner that only a fellow man can.
Lastly, it loosened me up. I didn't have to bottle things up and be a pillar for other people. I can now be weak when I was in my weakest moments, and not percieve it as a weakness. (Holy alliteration)
Threads (1984), while it was made for TV in the mid-80s and some of the effects are dated, there's an almost visceral, gnawing, devatastaing, haunting (choose your adjective because not one does it justice) feeling that attaches to yourself that has yet to leave me, I think about that film every few days, especially now with some of the more recent, insane developments in politics and international relations. It reinforced how absolutely fragile everything in this world is and how close a situation to today that film showed might really be. One viewing is enough for one lifetime.
It's a movie I seem to go back to, to understand more about it and how the different story lines are connected. The philosophy aspect of this film I find appealing and it made think about reality differently although I wouldn't call myself a believer of such things.
I found the book even better and started reading more novels from David Mitchell. "Cloud Atlas" is still my favorite of his books. A lot of his essays are available online via The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/profile/davidmitchell
Loved loved loved the book, so when I heard there was going to be a movie I thought "NO WAYYY they'll pull it off" but, somehow they did a pretty darn good job and with A list actors too. I've read all his stuff now :)
I have some routine (not sure what to call it) where I take a context (by lack of better words) then work backwards.
This topic had me wonder what great lessons or insights in (my) life have not at all been captured by any movie. What followed was like an eruption of great movie ideas. What each movie really needs is at least one amazing plot twist. Nothing really accomplishes that the way changing the viewers perception of life does.
Ill do a crude example but it probably doesn't do justice to the raw idea.
I discover one day that you can always increase your spending to match your income and at the end of your money have a chunk of month left.
I discover that selling your brain in a job leaves your free time without one.
I also discover one day that physical activity is not optional.
I talk with a very successful business man who one day discovered that his chair in front of the TV is only a few meters away from his car and that his personal parking spot is only a few meters from his personal office. After some 30 years he had to walk 150ish meters to the other end of the building and was absolutely exhausted. Only then he realized he didn't get any physical activity at all.
One could forge a plot from that where the protagonist progresses from wealth, a highly successful career, weak and depressed all the way to a shit physical job with crappy pay. The villa, the cars, the credit card wife, the fake friends, it all has to go. Why internet if one can read books. Why drive if one can walk in the rain?
Dark City (1998), Alex Proyas. This is an unmarketable movie. I consider knowing its genre to be a spoiler. It is one of those movies where the less you know about it, the better you're viewing experience. If you watch it you must watch the Directors Cut as the theatrical release was dumbed down by the studio execs.
Recently, Midsommer. I think if you go into it with an open mind (and not get too weirded out by the gore) it asks some really fascinating anthropological and social questions.
By the end of the movie, I was almost entirely on the side of the culture and their behavior made complete sense to me. During the course of the movie I experienced a shift of position and perspective and continues to affect me 4 years later.
All the token others… Pi,
Memento, Waking Life, Fight Club, Requiem for a Dream, etc. etc.
I felt like Midsommer was the best interesting film in decades.
Waking Life is amazing, watching it was one of life-altering events for me. After watching it several times I became curious about the director - Richard Linklater (he's staring as a guy at the Pinball machine in the end of the movie). Apparently he made some other nice movies after Waking Life. I really liked "Boyhood" - there's also really nice story behind shooting the movie - it was shot for 11 year with the same actors showing them growing up / aging.
Children of Men - 2006 - society would fall apart without a fresh supply of humans, this movie made that very, very clear
The Discovery - 2017 - The thought that we keep doing things over in an imperceptible manner until we get it right, is haunting
Ferris Bueller's Day Off - 1986 - "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - It told me I could be a little less serious about things, and have more fun
About Time - 2013 - The lesson is to try to roll with whatever happens, and relax
V for Vendetta weirdly change my perspective on concepts of right and wrong, and good and evil. Not in a major way, but just more so in a philosophical way.
I studied it at uni and wrote an essay where I explained that the main character couldn't be a symbol of both fascism AND a film director, because that would mean the director was calling himself a fascist. My lecturer's response was something like "why not?".
I was a very black-and-white thinker at that time, and his response was eye-opening for me.
I knew of Werner Herzog but recently got really interested in his work after he guested on Conan O'Brien's podcast. I'm reading his autobiography right now.
It's fascinating how he was begging some investor about how he had to make the movie Fitzcarraldo, because if he didn't, his life would be purposeless (I do hope I'm remembering this right). It got me wondering how he got away with things like forcing his crew to carry tonnes of ship over a mountain, but, also why shouldn't he get away with it, why should there be a strict construct of what's allowed or not.
"Come and see" and "20 Days in Mariupol". Both are about wars and both affect you the way nothing else does.
The last one is a documentary about the war in Ukraine. The actual raw uninterpreted reality of things that we read about in history books or in the news changes your perspective on many things, from politics to simple things in life that we often take for granted.
News stories force an agenda on you. History books may give you some knowledge about the reality we live in today. THIS lets you live through the traumatic experience of the history books and news story events.
I was nearly catatonic after I left a screening of "Come and See", I have never seen such a raw and unflinching story told about the war, nothing held back. Just indescribable the mood that it sets and how it unfolds the story. Hard to even put down in words my feelings on it.
This "documentary" does the same - force the agenda - perhaps even more so.
History books can potentially teach how to avoid this kind of conflicts. They are not emotionally appealing - unlike "documentaries", and likely less interesting, but we need to read one to avoid making another
The Ear (1970), released in 1989. A Czech couple comes home from a formal dinner. The husband works for the Party, and knows that their house is bugged. something was said at the dinner suggesting he’s now in disfavor, and may be sent to prison. They fight like Liz and Dick in Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf, all the while knowing the surveillance van outside is listening in. It’s a great study in paranoia. Highly recommended.
Once you’re familiar with bible, aristotle, platoe snd few other foundational sources - no movie or book can really change your perception. Whatever you see - It’s all been described many times.
Do the Right Thing. Not only is it one of the best movies I’ve ever seen, but I’m reminded of the ending every few months when I read the news. I now have a very different perspective when I see some oppressed group get admonished for protesting the “wrong” way.
[+] [-] bruce511|1 year ago|reply
It's such a subtle movie, that it works on multiple levels at the same time. I got to level 2 on the first viewing, but only years later assimilated level 3.
At level 1 it's a simple Romcom movie - boy stuck in a time loop needs to earn girl's love.
Level 2 is that we are all stuck in a time loop. Everyone is functionally living the same day over and over. Same job, same relationships, same everything. (There's even a scene in the movie where Phil describes his predicament and thd barfly replies "welcome to my life".)
Level 3 is even more meta. Because Phil is the only person -not- living the same day. All around him everyone else is the same, but he's evolving. We see him learning piano, and ice-sculpting and so on. He evolves emotionally, and is trying new things. He moves from being self-centred to focused on others.
The genius of the movie, and Murray's performance, is that it's buried, never forced. You're left to figure it out yourself. It's a work of art, disguised as something trivial.
[+] [-] d--b|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] anotherevan|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kromem|1 year ago|reply
While as a kid I would say that I wanted to be downloaded into a video game when I died, the idea that was already the case never even entered my mind.
Even after watching the movie, I was just like "oh man, that's such a neat idea" but still didn't think it was actually the case.
It wasn't until years later reading Nick Bostrom's work that I started to seriously entertain it, and only then as I considered it more seriously (and as things progressed in parallel) that it became a predominant belief.
But for a movie to set in motion a complete shift in how one sees the world and their place in it is a pretty remarkable accomplishment, even if it still required a ton of additional pieces thereafter to arrive.
[+] [-] al_borland|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] slim|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] orev|1 year ago|reply
Both of these were written stories first, but I first encountered them as movies.
Arrival. I really enjoyed the idea that learning something new could lead to other changes in perception that you wouldn’t think are related. It also led me to other works from Ted Chiang, each of which brought unexpected mind bending concepts.
Solaris. Teaches the lesson that we need to accept that there may be things we just aren’t able to understand.
[+] [-] tenpies|1 year ago|reply
I would strong suggest reading the Ted Chiang short story on which it is based: Stories of your Life.
Spoilers ahead:
The movie necessarily makes some changes and adds some action through geopolitics, but at its core it remains the story of a mother that knows that her child will die and her marriage will fall apart; yet she still decides to get married and have a child. It's a story about accepting fate and the ephemerality of life and happiness - and then aliens also happen to be around with a very cool perspective on time to make the whole story work.
[+] [-] xtiansimon|1 year ago|reply
There are a number of movie directors who really deliver a cinematic experience and mess with your head: David Cronenberg, Terry Gilliam, David Lynch, Quentin Tarantino, to name a few contemporaries. I return to a handful of their films again and again. Many very re-watchable.
I think it's worth adding here a few playwrights who have made films scripts: Stephen Poliakoff and David Mamet.
I want to shout out to a classic director: Michelangelo Antonioni. He flipped my lid. He really captures something for me with his cinematography and the quiet emotional tension he gets from his actors. Blow Up (1966), LaAvventura (1960) are my favs.
[+] [-] TheFreim|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] blhack|1 year ago|reply
But there is also a scene (which I cannot find online) where the main character (a playwright) is explaining that the only way to make his play work is to make everybody a main character. He realizes that everybody, everywhere, is living out a rich life and that they're the main character of that life.
It is a fantastic movie and i highly recommend it.
[+] [-] quesera|1 year ago|reply
I love Philip Seymour Hoffman (RIP), but I found Synecdoche, New York to be sooo incredibly anti-interesting in its multiple layers of ironically unironic self-indulgence that I really truly hated the film.
I have never had such a strongly negative reaction to any other movie. I'm having trouble thinking of a somehwat-close second. Maybe Blue Velvet?
If I heard someone else say that, I'd imagine that they had missed something, or just didn't "get it", but I don't think that's the case! :)
[+] [-] anotherhue|1 year ago|reply
This film has haunted me with its beauty. Not as airy as Mallick's work, a little softer than Aronofsky (The fountain, black Swan are masterpieces).
I think Mr. Nobody attempts a weaker version of this film, cloud atlas also.
Gattaca, inception, 2001, kpax maybe.
[+] [-] tootie|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] lawgimenez|1 year ago|reply
I grew up in a rough neighborhood, in high school my view was limited and I thought there is no going out of trouble, being a black sheep of the family, etc. I saw that movie, and I felt hope for the first time and started making changes for myself.
[+] [-] jjice|1 year ago|reply
> You wasted $150,000 on an education you could've got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.
Is just fantastic. A public library isn't a complete replacement for a college education, but in terms of knowledge gained, books are the _core_ of learning. Most of the learning I did in college came from reading a text book, or the instructor going over information in the text book. Assignments are important to help apply ideas, but many books have problem sets too.
Books (and other resources like video these days) are such an incredibly valuable resource and we've done a great job at making them available via libraries (of course there are the issues we hear about with publishers trying to fight against libraries, but in general, libraries are still fantastic). Reading has been a key to my educating myself post university. The only thing more valuable that I've found is real world experience.
[+] [-] screye|1 year ago|reply
Male grief is never portrayed with the kind of nuance and empathy that it deserves.
Now, I've started reaching out to my friends more often and offering support in a manner that only a fellow man can.
Lastly, it loosened me up. I didn't have to bottle things up and be a pillar for other people. I can now be weak when I was in my weakest moments, and not percieve it as a weakness. (Holy alliteration)
[+] [-] willsmith72|1 year ago|reply
I guess I get the idea, but in what ways can only a fellow man provide support?
[+] [-] theideaofcoffee|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] avidiax|1 year ago|reply
Nobody actually knows what it will be, except terrible for all the belligerents.
[+] [-] aaron695|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pan69|1 year ago|reply
It's a movie I seem to go back to, to understand more about it and how the different story lines are connected. The philosophy aspect of this film I find appealing and it made think about reality differently although I wouldn't call myself a believer of such things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(film)
[+] [-] Archelaos|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ndjshe3838|1 year ago|reply
I think the complicated story/narrative threw a lot of people off from appreciating it
Really good movie to re-watch multiple times, the scope of that movie is crazy
[+] [-] imperialdrive|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] 6510|1 year ago|reply
I have some routine (not sure what to call it) where I take a context (by lack of better words) then work backwards.
This topic had me wonder what great lessons or insights in (my) life have not at all been captured by any movie. What followed was like an eruption of great movie ideas. What each movie really needs is at least one amazing plot twist. Nothing really accomplishes that the way changing the viewers perception of life does.
Ill do a crude example but it probably doesn't do justice to the raw idea.
I discover one day that you can always increase your spending to match your income and at the end of your money have a chunk of month left.
I discover that selling your brain in a job leaves your free time without one.
I also discover one day that physical activity is not optional.
I talk with a very successful business man who one day discovered that his chair in front of the TV is only a few meters away from his car and that his personal parking spot is only a few meters from his personal office. After some 30 years he had to walk 150ish meters to the other end of the building and was absolutely exhausted. Only then he realized he didn't get any physical activity at all.
One could forge a plot from that where the protagonist progresses from wealth, a highly successful career, weak and depressed all the way to a shit physical job with crappy pay. The villa, the cars, the credit card wife, the fake friends, it all has to go. Why internet if one can read books. Why drive if one can walk in the rain?
[+] [-] 082349872349872|1 year ago|reply
(come to think of it, wasn't that the plot of 1999's "Office Space"?)
[+] [-] hgs3|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] sshine|1 year ago|reply
The trailer basically gives away the plot twist.
[+] [-] BSOhealth|1 year ago|reply
By the end of the movie, I was almost entirely on the side of the culture and their behavior made complete sense to me. During the course of the movie I experienced a shift of position and perspective and continues to affect me 4 years later.
All the token others… Pi, Memento, Waking Life, Fight Club, Requiem for a Dream, etc. etc.
I felt like Midsommer was the best interesting film in decades.
[+] [-] ex2can|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] BSOhealth|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kirso|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mikewarot|1 year ago|reply
The Discovery - 2017 - The thought that we keep doing things over in an imperceptible manner until we get it right, is haunting
Ferris Bueller's Day Off - 1986 - "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - It told me I could be a little less serious about things, and have more fun
About Time - 2013 - The lesson is to try to roll with whatever happens, and relax
[+] [-] Quinzel|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] magarnicle|1 year ago|reply
I studied it at uni and wrote an essay where I explained that the main character couldn't be a symbol of both fascism AND a film director, because that would mean the director was calling himself a fascist. My lecturer's response was something like "why not?".
I was a very black-and-white thinker at that time, and his response was eye-opening for me.
[+] [-] netsharc|1 year ago|reply
It's fascinating how he was begging some investor about how he had to make the movie Fitzcarraldo, because if he didn't, his life would be purposeless (I do hope I'm remembering this right). It got me wondering how he got away with things like forcing his crew to carry tonnes of ship over a mountain, but, also why shouldn't he get away with it, why should there be a strict construct of what's allowed or not.
[+] [-] notaigenerated|1 year ago|reply
The last one is a documentary about the war in Ukraine. The actual raw uninterpreted reality of things that we read about in history books or in the news changes your perspective on many things, from politics to simple things in life that we often take for granted.
News stories force an agenda on you. History books may give you some knowledge about the reality we live in today. THIS lets you live through the traumatic experience of the history books and news story events.
[+] [-] theideaofcoffee|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jesterson|1 year ago|reply
This "documentary" does the same - force the agenda - perhaps even more so.
History books can potentially teach how to avoid this kind of conflicts. They are not emotionally appealing - unlike "documentaries", and likely less interesting, but we need to read one to avoid making another
[+] [-] alejohausner|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rurban|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] aristofun|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rio517|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] cybrjoe|1 year ago|reply
> Vincent: You wanna know how I did it? This is how I did it Anton. I never saved anything for the swim back.
[+] [-] walterbell|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] anotherhue|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] lobito14|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jjj123|1 year ago|reply