Ask HN: Every day feels like prison

[throwaway_32u10]

Hey!

Man here, mid thirties. "Stuck" in a boring, but comfortable, 9-5 in tech. Trying to build a business on the side.

Every day feels like prison. I don't care about tech anymore in the way I used to care. I don't like working with people anymore. I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.

But the business doesn't work either. Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed and do bare minimum for yet another day. After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

Most days feel like groundhog day. I'm not depressed. I train regularly (4-5 times a week), I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs. I did big change in my life recently: quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty. Other than sport and building my business, I don't have any other hobbies or goals I pursuit. I'm in a relationship. I feel like I tick all "middle class" boxes, and yet I'm unhappy. I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

I want to change something but I don't know what. Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?

[tedivm]

I am absolutely blown away by the number of people who are saying that this person, who is clearly depressed and likely burnt out, can solve all of his problems by having children. It is the most insane advice I have ever seen on this site.

Jumping to a lifetime commitment as a kneejerk reaction is just so wild to me. Maybe start with a hobby? This guy is working a full time job and a side hustle, but doesn't seem to do anything for himself. What happens if he has kids and realizes he's still unfulfilled? It's not like he can just return them.

[thatswrong0]

For real. The concept of “you have to love yourself before you can love others” is cliché but.. bringing kids into the world, that are a massive responsibility, I think should be a decision made with a full understanding of the work and love needed to do it right.

How tf are you gonna have the emotional capacity for kids if you don’t have it even for yourself??

[Towaway69]

Well written, totally agree.

I did the „have children and all will be well“ thing and the guilt I have towards those children is great.

In my defence, I myself was a „child will save our relationship“-child - needless to say it didn’t work and left me with a giant question mark: why am I here?

Hence I am a biased observer, each to their own & your mileage will vary.

[macspoofing]

>I am absolutely blown away by the number of people who are saying that this person, who is clearly depressed and likely burnt out, can solve all of his problems by having children.

You're outright stating OP is suffering from depression ("clearly depressed"). How is that assessment any better? In fact, it's probably worse because that's a clinical judgement.

In terms of the general advice that he build a family - how is that wrong or 'insane'? OP is looking for some kind of purpose or meaning in their life and coding isn't cutting it, and neither is building a tech startup, or travelling, or exercising. It just so happens that being part of a family and being responsible for their welfare has provided purpose for much of humanity throughout our existence. At the very least, it gives you a solid reason why you should get out of bed (the kids need to eat, they need to be taken to school, etc.). Why is that advice unreasonable?

[swat535]

No, there is nothing "insane" about suggesting people to at a minimum _consider_ starting a family or think about children. It's what humans have been doing for thousands of years and many find fulfillment in it.

Additionally, OP clearly stated that he is not "16" and doesn't want to explore "hobbies". As I mentioned in my comment below thread, exposing him to diverse point of views can help him figure it out on his own.

[sparrish]

I disagree. It's a great suggestion because it provides purpose, a reason to get out of bed each morning and a drive to provide and protect your children. The fact that he can't 'return them' makes the stakes high and only adds to the worthiness of the pursuit.

He'll still have days of struggle, we all do, but he'll have a fulfilling reason to push through them.

[onemoresoop]

I don't think people are recommending having children as a solution to solve any problems. It is simply a big life decision that changes perspective a lot. It also makes dealing with boring drudgery a lot more tolerable. It brings meaning to people who lost it. Parenting is an important stage in life after all.

[codingdave]

Are you sure you are not depressed? Depression isn't the "I'm very sad" meme that TV and movies makes it out to be, at least not for everyone. Having nothing wrong but just not being happy and having limited motivation is absolutely one way it can manifest.

Or it could be ADHD or a plethora of other things.

So you'll get the same advice as anyone else who feels generally bad - talk to a doctor. Maybe there is a medical thing going on. Maybe there is a mental thing going on. Ask a couple professionals to evaluate you, and maybe you'll find a path to improve things.

[melbourne_mat]

Agreed. You say you're not depressed but actually when your describe how you feel it sounds a lot like depression. It might be a good idea to talk to a doctor about it.

[monknomo]

This sounds a lot like anhedonia, which is pretty a pretty classic depression symptom

[sfink]

At least for me, your messages reads "I am depressed...I am depressed...I am despressed...Oh, but I'm not depressed...I am depressed..." etc. What do you imagine depression to be? Everything you're describing is depression. I suspect when you say "I'm not depressed" you mean you aren't sad, or you experience happiness regularly, or something. Which basically means you only have 90% of the possible symptoms of moderate depression, not 100%. Given that hardly anyone has 100% of the symptoms (well, maybe unless they're severely depressed), that doesn't exactly make you special.

But depression is just a label, it's not like accepting that label means there is a single known fix for it. Accepting it might at least remove your current obstacle to exploring certain options.

Talk to a doctor. Talk to a therapist. You might be one of the many people for whom a chemical treatment will help, or you might be one of the many people for whom something like cognitive behavioral therapy will help. There is unlikely to be a magic bullet, but there are many things to try. If you're able to detect an incremental change, you can focus in on that path. Right now you may be dulled out enough that you don't have the energy to detect what's working or do anything with it, so you should start with some professional help to lift you up enough that you can start doing the work to make forward progress.

Yes, I have been in a similar situation. I can't say I've "escaped". I think that was my expectation for a long time, that either you're stuck in the mud or you come up with a way to escape, but it's one of those things where lowering my expectations was necessary to making progress, and in retrospect I've made more progress that I would have initially thought possible. But I don't feel like I've escaped. It's still there, and it still drags me down periodically, but it's been a while now since my last long period of really wallowing in it.

Family can help. Friends can help. Work can help. Entertainment can help. But all of them can be a crutch, too, and just be a means to extend the status quo. You'll need to put work into each and every one of them specifically to make sure they're actually taking you in the right direction. It's a constant vigilance sort of thing, which might sound awful but at some point you'll look back and see that it's more than worth it.

[mooreds]

> quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

I did this, but in my 20s. Realized that wherever I went, I'd be there too. That realization shook me and I started to work to become more comfortable with who I was and what I wanted. Some of that was reading, a bit of therapy, but mostly just examining my desires and accepting them rather than thinking about what I "should want to do".

> Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?

I think you are asking about escaping the situation, but I think escaping the fantasy of a magically different life is a better goal. Things that I did that helped:

* trying new things that you dream of. If you think working on a farm is going to change your life, try it. If you think working in a different field will, try that. (I see you doing this to some extent with your business.)

* looking at your financial condition and seeing where it leaves you. Sometimes we stay in jobs because we feel we have to, but what steps can you take to not. There's some flexibility in software to go to 4 days a week or contract. Maybe that kind of job is a better fit for you. But check the finances first.

* pick big fun goals and treat the job as a means to that end. Could be more travel or other experiences.

[caprock]

First, there's nothing wrong with what you're feeling. It's a signal, and it's great that you're giving it consideration.

It sounds like you're in need of a Purpose. Like many folks in modern times.

Casually and broadly speaking, I'd say you have a couple of paths forward. Neither is a short-term holistic solution. These paths aren't mutually exclusive either.

1. Focus on creating and solidifying a family

Many many people trudge through boring and uninspiring work, all for purpose of providing and protecting for a family. There's great motivation and satisfaction in this. Don't be afraid of traditional gender roles and arrangements, and take pride in this accomplishment. Find good role models and mentors for this early, to help understand how to think about these challenges and gain fulfillment from them.

2. Refactor and keep trying with clear short-term goals

Regarding your business(es). The majority of successfully independent people have tried numerous things before succeeding. Repeatedly I hear the successful people say to keep trying. It's hard.

So, keep trying. Maybe you need to diversify your efforts and try some different services, products, businesses. Whatever your focus, set some more specific and short-term goals. When you have clearer goals, and you focus on those goals (with action), then other things like the 9-5 lose attention and focus. You shift from ruminating on the frustrations and instead attend to the goals and the possible.

Good luck!

[mooreds]

Having a family is underrated IMO. Just gives you so much more perspective. And you can't know that until you do it.

Reminds me of this podcast on "Vampires, Life Choices, and Transformation": https://www.econtalk.org/l-a-paul-on-vampires-life-choices-a...

[alien_robot]

> Don't be afraid of traditional gender roles and arrangements, and take pride in this accomplishment.

Maybe consider defying gender roles -- and not just those roles, all the expectations that brought you to this point.

The OP's post resonates pretty deeply with me - I've been disillusioned with my career (and my expectations of it) for a long time. Expectations met reality, and I, too, am unhappy with the status quo.

Okay, maybe lean into a family. Maybe don't, and don't buy into the traditional gender roles. Maybe find some way give up all the expectations you've had - and cultivate your own happiness in defiance of what has been indoctrinated into you your entire life. College, careers, marriages...perhaps all of these institutions should be questioned as you forge your own path.

Side note: I have nothing figured out. I have only just recognized that I am not fulfilled by my career and that working for $GIANT_MEGACORP in $PRESTEGIOUS_ROLE does not give me purpose. My extended mid-life crisis continues.

[throwaway_32u10]

OP Here.

This blew up fast. I'll provide more context in this comment rather than commenting individually for the sake of not repeating myself.

First of all, children and family. I am considering this, but I doubt this is the solution to all problems. I agree with people who say it can provide a sense of purpose, but I also agree with people who think it's a bit irresponsible to recommend children to a stranger who shared something like I did.

Next, ADHD and depression. Never did ADHD test, I suspect I might have slight form of it. Depression I refuse to believe it exists in the form society labels it. For me, depression is a chemical imbalance, rather than a state of laziness/sadness/lost in life. Even if I have something like this, I won't take medication. Just a personal view on modern medical system, based on my experience with multiple psychologist and psychiatrists who did more harm that good (in my opinion).

Therapy. As mentioned above, therapy did more harm than good to me. Sure it might work for some people, but my experience with over 4 therapists ended up with either "nothing is wrong with you, don't visit me any more" or attempts to put me in a one of the boxes that the therapist learned about in school, while I clearly try to avoid any boxes.

God, hobbies, etc. I'm not 16 years old. I have grown up responsibilities, and I can't indulge myself in new hobbies every day. I'm focused (as much as I can) on building a business in order to escape the soul crashing tech industry and live on my terms (as much as possible, ultimate freedom is somewhat a lie). Together with this I try to work on my health, and maintain relationship(s). These are my 3 priorities in life, in no particular order. I don't have the time or desire to explore woodworking, or cave diving.

Thanks for everyone who commented, I appreciate every one of you <3

[pavel_lishin]

> For me, depression is a chemical imbalance, rather than a state of laziness/sadness/lost in life. Even if I have something like this, I won't take medication.

Depression is a chemical imbalance which is experienced as a state of sadness/lost in life.

How do you think people with depression subjectively feel, if not the way you feel right now?

And if you believe that this illness is a form of chemical imbalance, why not take medication? Surely you'd take medication if you had cancer, or a toothache, or a vitamin D deficiency?

[caprock]

Great followup and details. Your introspection sounds like you're on the right path for evolving and making progress. There is no silver bullet here (at least in my own experience).

Your three priorities (if I understood correctly), sound like your health, relationship, and independent business. This really does seem like a good track. In fact, having such clarity of priorities puts you ahead of many people. The only thing I don't see is maybe having a vision of the environment in which you pursue these priorities (home, living area, weather, etc).

I encourage you to consider specific short and medium term goals within those three areas. Maybe you can help draw out several purposes that adjust your mental framing.

As a small example, the hot topic of the children. I don't perceive anyone saying you should rush out and have a child tomorrow. Instead, adapting to your situation, maybe there are some specific family goals for the next few years.

Then, on the business side, maybe there are some specific goals for the next 1, 3, and 6 months. This might also need some goals about when to cut bait and try some different business ideas.

When I'm in the worst malaise, it's often when I have vague big picture aims without shorter term goals. Purpose is multi-faceted.

Thanks for sharing your journey. It's helpful for me to think and write about these topics, so I appreciate the prompt and hope I've helped your pursuit in a small way.

[jeffreyrogers]

Why do you think building a business will fix the problem you feel? I don't mean that in a rude way, but I think answering that will help you figure out what you're looking for. If the goal is just to build a business you could start a business like a McDonald's franchise that is pretty much guaranteed to work if you work hard enough.

But I suspect that succeeding at some already derisked business model isn't what is drawing you towards building a business. It's probably not money either since from a discounted cash flow perspective it probably pays better to get a FAANG job. You say you want freedom but in most businesses you don't have a huge amount of freedom since you are constrained by what the market wants and organizational structures have to meet employee needs.

[jacknews]

" I'm not 16 years old. I have grown up responsibilities, and I can't indulge myself in new hobbies every day. I'm focused (as much as I can) on building a business in order to escape the soul crashing tech industry ..."

But you're not escaping yourself, and those priorities, and that's probably why you feel trapped. Box your job into a 'job' category, along with the business and 'getting rich' and so on, and use the time outside that to explore other things life has to offer. Hobbies, sports, volunteering, may not sound enticing superficially but it's about meeting new and different people and getting outside yourself and your rut.

[LargeWu]

> I'm not depressed

also you:

> Every day feels like prison.

> Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed

> After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

It kind of sounds like you might have depression. I suggest you check in with your primary care provider or a licensed therapist.

[voidUpdate]

I appreciate this is a personal question, but have you ever suspected you may have ADHD? I suffer from it, and it seems like our experiences are quite similar in some ways. I'm still trying to get hold of medication so I cannot confirm if that would help, sadly, but it might. If a test is easy for you to access in your area, it might be worth getting yourself checked out, or at least look at the experiences of other people online who have been diagnosed and see if they align with yours

[mchannon]

Call it being in a rut, or a funk, or getting the blues, but please don't say like prison unless you've experienced prison. What you're describing is close to the opposite of my experience in prison.

Every day was one day closer to release, to being able to see and spend time with the people I cared most about. I saw dates on the calendar approach and looked forward to them. I never had much opportunity to be bored, and there were plenty of activities I could engage in, even during 24 hour lockdowns. I was forced and encouraged to eat fewer calories (at first at least) and lost a lot of weight, making me much healthier. I had goals I was very eager to work toward, but artificially put off because I couldn't do them while locked up.

This sounds like a mid-life crisis. Your SHBG levels rise with age and your free testosterone levels are likely low. Getting looked over for TRT can potentially help.

Having a middling career isn't enough for a lot of people. Why aren't you in the 1% killing it? A lot of them have problems, but having more money than you know how to spend is a source of contentment for a lot of wealthier people.

Wrapping it up with a quote: "I never worked a day in my life. It was all fun."

[thatswrong0]

Jeese louise being pedantic about the wording of a feeling is just completely lacking in compassion. This post isn’t about you. Good job making yourself feel better while belittling the struggles of someone else.

“I had it worse than you and figured it out” just ain’t it dude. Same with “just be happy”

[pavel_lishin]

> Every day feels like prison

> I'm not depressed.

Hey man, are you sure?

[paulcole]

> I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty

So you have a relationship, athletic hobbies, steady job, and side business?

That is luxury. It's just that you've convinced yourself it's prison for some reason.

> now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

As they say, wherever you go, there you are.

Even if you found "luxury" then you'd convince yourself it wasn't enough.

Figure out how to solve that problem. Because quitting your job or whatever isn't going to work.

> I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

If you get 30-40 more years of life, think about how lucky you'll be compared to the people who die of cancer in their 40s or 50s?

[rambojohnson]

he's not "convincing himself" of anything. this feeling is a side effect of any number of things going on his life. don't jump to conclusions about someone.

[krzysiek]

You're talking about checking boxes, but are they your boxes or the boxes of what seems to be the norm? Your own, deeply personal, true goals are the ones that can change how you work and feel about your work and life.

You could try coaching (look for ICF certified, or if you're in UK, AC certified coach). This would help you find goals that trully matter TO YOU, and develop fulfilling process for reaching these goals.

You could also try pschoterapy. This could help you be more self-aware and develop mental skills for dealing with feelings that you described.

[snozolli]

I felt very trapped. In the US, there were only a handful of tech hubs, and realistically I could only find work in the Bay Area and Seattle. The high cost of living meant I'd likely never be able to own a home unless I hit the startup lottery.

Spending a month in Thailand and (especially) Cambodia gave me a lot more appreciation for how much I had. However, it also broke my interest in the American Dream. Seeing a guy running a small motorcycle shop while his toddler son played on the steps made me feel that the Western, Corporate system is really damaged. Spending most of your waking hours at some office building with people you don't particularly like, working on something that you can't care about except in abstract terms? Seeing your life's work dissolve when it's abandoned after the next acquisition or bankruptcy? It's not a recipe for a satisfied life.

I don't know what the solution is, but your best bet is probably to get into therapy and learn tools to practice gratitude. It's so easy to become complacent and blind to the great things we have.

Edit: I just saw your additional comment. I still stand by my therapy comment, specifically for the purpose of learning tools and exercises. Unfortunately, I have no idea how you find a decent therapist for this purpose.

[throwaway_32u10]

Hey! Thanks for the comment.

I've been in SEA and well as Central America. It does open your eyes a lot on how broken the western system is, and makes you appreciate what you have, more.

The problem is that, rather quickly, it goes away. You come back to your western part of the world, and you write posts like mine, where there are clearly people who have it worse. So thanks for reminding me about this.

[turtleonturtle]

It sounds like your material life is great! It doesn't sound like you are missing anything out here. But maybe things need to be rearranged in your heart? I agree with other commenters that it seems you are living a life according to a pattern (as you say, ticking the middle class boxes) but maybe with unclear purpose.

It is very normal to not like your job. Most people do not. They do it as a means to feed their families, build security for their future, or to buy amazing toys. Search yourself for the reasons you have your job. If you don't have any good ones, why do it? But if you are doing it for a reason, it is no prison, but a means to your desires. Once you find those reasons, stay connected to them. Journal them, meditate on them, remember them every day. Nietzsche wrote "He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how." This is how you build gratitude, and gratitude is how you sustain optimism.

I highly recommend therapy as a way to explore yourself and cultivate purpose. It has changed my life in similar circumstances. Other tools I have found very useful are exercise, meditation, good nutrition, and building relationships with others.

The feelings you are have are common and everyone feels this way sometimes. You are not lost, keep going.

[sameerds]

You maybe depressed, maybe not, I don't know enough about all that. But meeting a therapist is a big yes. Don't shy away from it. Go consult one.

Having said that, don't punish yourself so much. Most people feel what you are feeling, most of the time. You just went through a big change in your life, and now you are wondering why it didn't help. Maybe you are blaming yourself for making all these changes. But guess what, you were focused enough to get it done, and maybe it didn't pan out. It's too early to say whether it did or not.

It's actually okay for things to not work out the way you want. The real problem is to consciously or unconsciously expect results for everything you do. And then finding fault in yourself when results don't show up. Don't punish yourself by doing that. Let things be for some time. Take pleasure in small everyday things, like making a breakfast that you enjoy. Look forward to things. Don't try to find things to look forward to, instead just look forward to routine things that are part of your life anyway.

In other words, relax. And consult a therapist.

[normalaccess]

I have noticed a dearth of satisfaction in the tech world of late. It seems that many were sold a false dream and the light is fading. I myself have been feeling this way and I have drastically cut back on personal computer interaction outside of work.

My recommendation is get closer to nature, trees, the living green, fresh air, sunshine... The things that bring a real physical joy to the mind and body. Mankind is not meant to spend all day in man-made caves with flickering lights

[triceratops]

> I don't like working with people anymore

> I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.

I think owning a successful business means you work with people more, not less.

> After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

There's value in powering through and getting stuff done. But there is also a time to step back and do less. You're the best person to judge what's right.

I agree with everyone else. You need a purpose. If not the business, then something else. Here's an incomplete list of things people find purpose in:

1. Religion

2. Children and family

3. Volunteering and helping others

4. Hobbies

5. Friends and community

6. Involvement in local politics

7. Climbing the corporate ladder

9. All-out hedonism - games, partying

> I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

Normal and natural. But 40 years is a long time and a lot can change. What would you like to be different?

[dansitu]

It sounds like you're feeling stuck in a lot of ways, but you also feel motivated to be proactive in finding a solution. That's great!

The best single thing you can do is to find a therapist. They're trained, experienced professionals whose entire job is to help people with these types of situations - not just folks with mental health issues. They are like personal trainers but for your mind, not your body.

Look up some therapists in your area and try them out until you find one you get along with. Don't worry about the cost: if you're a middle class tech worker you can definitely afford it, and even in the US it's easy to find therapists covered by health insurance. It's an incredibly worthwhile experience.

Good luck with figuring all of this out!

[bachmeier]

With the disclaimer that free advice is worth what you pay for it...

Your current career path is not fulfilling to you. We know that because you wrote "I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years." Nothing wrong with that. The one strategy that won't work is to keep doing what you're doing.

You can change careers, possibly after going back to college to train for something completely different, or you can change your life, so that it doesn't revolve around your career so much. The latter could be getting married, it could be satisfying an unmet need such as religion or helping poor people get dental care, it could be flipping houses, or a ton of other things that don't require a change to your career.

[codr7]

I'm pretty sure that deep down in there you have some kind of passion going on, something you care deeply about. So ask yourself, why aren't you following your heart?

Sounds easy, I am well aware that it's often terrifying, but it's the only solution.