Laptop of choice for a Programmer, Need Help

[alnayyir]

I'm going to be getting a new laptop soon for a variety of reasons. Also, I have a list of necessities and niceties I'd like to see in a laptop.

Reasons for getting a new laptop: 1. My 14" Dell 600m is falling apart, literally. Pieces of the case are falling off. I get electrocuted by the battery regularly. The screen hinges are on their last leg.

2. I need a reliable back-up machine because my desktop has some serious irreconcilable gremlims. This is particularly true because I tend to rage if I lose code when a machine goes down.

3. I just lost ~$1500 of stuff including my desktop computer monitor (amongst other things) and had to borrow a couple CRTs from some friends to get my desktop back up and running. I'd like to invest in a machine I tote with me.

Necessities: 1. DVD Burner. Non-negotiable. 2. Not 17", not a netbook.

Niceties: 1. Mac OS X. Huge bonus. This means hardware that can run mac OS X natively that isn't a netbook, or an actual macbook if there are no options. (I haven't found such a non-apple laptop that is not a netbook and can run leopard natively, do you guys know of one that isn't an MSI Wind or Dell Mini 9?)

I want the unix without the hassle. I likes my bash, but the situation with Linux and the lack of robustness for the power user/home user is getting absurd. I've been using Linux for a decade, and I'm tired of hoping it'll sort itself out.

2. Something under $1.5k, preferably under $1k. I'll take suggestions above that mark if they're sufficiently z0mg-great, but I just had a lot of stuff stolen and don't need to dump a car worth's of cash on a laptop.

3. Within the 13-14" range. 12s are too small for long-term use, 15s too big for what I use a laptop for. 13 and 14 is usually perfect. I can deal with 15 for the right laptop.

4. A graphics chip that can run a few games (Eve Online in my case) is a plus. This is particularly notable because again, if deskie goes down, it'd be nice if this could take up all functions inherent to my desktop. Not a necessity for the right laptop.

5. Illuminated keyboard. Wicked yo.

CANDIDATES SO FAR:

New Last-gen Macbook: $999 <=== this is shaping up to be a poor deal. No DVD-burner, integrated graphics, and high'ish price. However, this can be rectified with a refurb model I found from apple. $949 for 2.4GHz White model with DVD Burner and 2 GB of ram.

XPS M1330: This occurred to me because of CodingHorror, but fer godssakes, in order to get the dedicated graphics I hit the macbook price point, which at that point, I'm buying a macbook.

Dell Studios and Inspirons are out of the question. Price efficient to an extent, but too big and the reasonable-sized Inspiron (13") isn't easy to turn into an all-rounder without making it get within sniffing distance of the $949 Macbook.

Lenovo Thinkpads (T400/X300?): Wonderful machines, and I love the hardware compatibility with Linux/BSD. However, the price enters the stratosphere quickly (buying a macbook at that point, again), and the build quality isn't as good as it used to be. I have nothing but love for the trackpoint though. A trackpoint is the only interface related improvement I could make upon a macbook pro personally.

Sony VAIO Laptops: Great build quality, I like the chiclet keyboards (not just because apple uses them, I'm just fast with them). Nice machines, and the price isn't as bad as it used to be, but it's impossible to get one with something better than integrated graphics without bumping into macbook territory. The accessories are hell on earth expensive too, like Lenovo.

What do you guys use? How do you use it? How many of you are using Macs? Seems like a lot these days.

Software I use:

I do do some .NET programming, but I'd like to migrate to using more python/ruby. I don't mind dual-booting a mac in case I need to.

EDIT: Another plus to the Macs is I'd love to give iphone dev a try!

Suggestions?

[astrec]

Sounds like you really want a MacBook - you'll find a way to amortize the couple of hundred bucks extra it'll cost.

As for me, I use a 1st gen black MacBook w/Leopard, added a bigger HDD and aftermarket RAM to 2GB. I use a Logitech V470 bluetooth mouse which I carry everywhere, and I've got a couple of bluetooth apple keyboards (shorties without the num pad) - one for the office and one at home. For external monitors I've got a cheap Dell 23" widescreen in each location.

For the occasional Windows mission (usually to load updates to my N95) I was using Win XP via Parallels, but my experience with the performance of the last few releases has left me wanting and I'm currently using a trial copy of VMWare Fusion.

[alnayyir]

How's fusion?

[TheNational22]

This may not be popular, but, I use HP laptops almost exclusively, I'm a Python and PHP mostly programmer (I have been learning Java for about a year), and I have three HP laptops. A dv2300 pavilion, an HDX 16, and an older one, can't remember series, that still works. They all dual boot windows and linux (sorry, no OSX, just doesn't appeal to me). As long as you can easily add ram and HDD's (one of the reasons apple doesn't appeal to me), almost any mainstream laptop will suit your needs

[alnayyir]

I've used HPs, they feel like they're made of the plastic they make trash cans out of. Keyboards are just as bad. They make me want to cry because I know what kind of hardware HP is capable of making.

[old-gregg]

Ughh... Tough times... Seems like right now there aren't any usable notebooks on the market. I have two of the "dream" machines you have mentioned: Thinkpad T61 and prev. generation Macbook Pro. Both are junk: Lenovo uses one of those el-cheapo dim and terrible colored screens and MBP also uses a 6-bit LCD albeit with LED backlight. My MBP also runs OSX, which blows ass compared to superior Ubuntu/Gnome on a Thinkpad. Please don't moan: I've learned to be VERY productive in Gnome+Compiz and while I like Macs, I highly recommend you guys check those out.

Back to the hardware: I keep jumping between the two. I wish I could just run Ubuntu on a Mac, but I absolutely need Adobe software for work: our designers as well as business people use Fireworks and Photoshop all the time, so I gotta be able to read and modify those files, so I'm trying to bear with OSX/Finder... Ughh.

I am also a photography nut and the situation with laptop LCDs is grim right now: the total degradation compared to what we've had 2-3 years ago. I don't know a single laptop manufacturer who offers 16.7 million colors on a laptop LCD... So if you pay any attention to LCD quality, I don't think you'll be happy with anything.

But it's either Thinkpads or Macs, as always. There aren't anything else out there. DELL makes the nice Latitude series, but as always, they couldn't resist the urge of saving a few dollars and opted for the cheapest touchpad possible, rendering the machine useless: that ALPS junk just doesn't work.

[kajecounterhack]

Have you tried Dell's Precision Mobile Workstation series? They're brilliant. Plus goldcare support = god. they send technicians to your house to fix anything. burnt motherboards, shattered screens, etc.

Then again I got this laptop on a research grant...

[alnayyir]

Hrm. Well, MBP / T61p might be junk but I'm not swimming in options.

[gherlein]

I just got a Dell XPS 1530 - bigger than you probably want, but for me it's outstanding. 1920x1200 LCD, HDMI out, 4GB RAM, Core2 Duo, 320GB haard drive - for under $1500. A huge seling point for me was that it can be ordered with Ubuntu so it's fully linux compatable.

[alnayyir]

As soon as a windows laptop cracks 1k, it's macbook buying time I'm afraid.

[drinian]

I just picked up a Sager NP7350 a few weeks ago, in part because Sager resellers like PC Torque or Xotic PC will sell you a laptop without a Windows license (and I'm going to use it entirely with Linux).

$1750 including 13" screen with LED backlight, and one of those Intel solid-state disks. Believe the hype, they are ridiculously fast. The machine is dead silent when the unfortunately loud fan isn't running.

Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid supported most hardware out of the box, aside from a nasty bug in the wifi support that will be solved in a kernel update, hopefully soon. No support for the fingerprint scanner and possibly the webcam, I haven't tried it.

Sager is essentially rebranding machines made by a Taiwanese company called Clevo, and cater mostly to highly technical users. Most tech support won't ask you to open up the back panel and reset the CMOS battery yourself before RMAing (true story), and I like that.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1017 is a big hub of information.

One thing I would watch out for, Intel VT is not yet enabled in the mainline BIOS. Clevo just recently enabled it, and Sager has yet to get their rebranded BIOS in stock yet. However, one BIOS flash will fix this.

[kajecounterhack]

Hmm maybe solid state disk + wubi = magic? Slowdown time = gone!

[alnayyir]

I just started poking around and checking out some of the Sager laptops. Oddly enough, taking from the reviews, they seem to be the only well built laptops anymore. I'm poking around the 12 and 13". If I do the SSD, I'll but it separately, they're way overpriced if you get them from a reseller. That and I'm holding out for the inevitable price-drop from SanDisk and their SSDs.

[therubberduckie]

just wanted to say that Macbooks DO come with a DVD burner (SuperDrive) even the last gen ones.

[alnayyir]

For extra money (last gen ones).

The $949 model I mentioned that is refurb has a DVD-Burner.

[tower10]

Second hand (or refurbished), last gen 15" Macbook Pro. I use one of these for development, no complaints.

[davidmathers]

Yes. This (Penryn MacBook Pro) is absolutely the best developer computer available.

Amazon had the 2.5 GHz model (the one Apple was selling for $2500 a few months ago) for $1500, but it looks like that deal ended with December. Maybe it will come back.

You can still get the 2.4 GHz model (orig $2000) for $1400 from MacMall and maybe other places.

[zackola]

Agreed. Find a mac addict on craigslist who bought one right before the new ones came out. Spend 50 bucks at crucial to max out the memory to 4GB. Mmmm. Tasty memory.

[alnayyir]

How much did you pay, and where did you get it from? What do you develop in/on?

[vco]

15.4" Lenovo Thinkpad with the WUXGA+ display really really provides valuable screen real estate for code

[alnayyir]

Well over the mac price point. Nice machines, but not as well built as they used to be.

[thomasmallen]

Well, you want a cheap(er) Mac laptop, 13-14"...sounds like you've already made up your mind.

[Eliezer]

I strongly suggest looking on Craigslist. I got my last two laptops there and they were both way above what I could have gotten new at that price point.

[alnayyir]

Been poking around on there. Might try to snag a cheap MBP off of there.

[aposteriori]

I've been a long time Linux user and recently got a macbook, partly because it just works and I don't have to read 1001 web forums trying to decide whether the specific NVidia chipset is compatible with the latest Xorg driver.

So it's really easy to set up and easy to use, once you get used to the oddities (command Q...). It's basically a BSD, so you get Bash and Python and gcc and Vim etc.

However, I'm starting to discover while it is Unix, it's got its problems. On Ubuntu, everything is just an apt-get away. I can check out bug reports on launchpad and get unstable fixes, and not have to wait for an update from the Apple gods. On OSX, you need to use fink or darwinports, which isn't integrated with the OS (anyone said Apple gcc vs fink gcc?). Apple just likes doing things its own way, like rewriting config files for you (even though you edited them manually), having obscure config options (.MacOSX/environment.plist???).

So as much as I enjoy the interface, I think my next machine will be some sort of Thinkpad + Ubuntu, for all that brown themed ugliness :)

(oh, and I swear the white macbook scratches and scuffs the second you take it out of the box, get a black one or a pro.)

[alnayyir]

I've been poking around a cheap Thinkpad on Craigslist.

I didn't know the situation was that hairy with the ports on mac os x. From the way others spoke of macports and fink, it had that same apple 'just works' going on.

[tortilla]

Get the current gen MacBook (MB466LL/A) if you can swing the price. The extra $200 over your budget is well worth it.

It's $1229.99 (1179.99 after $50 rebate) at Amazon.

[alnayyir]

Checking that out right now, didn't know they had them on sale.

[nanexcool]

I'd get a XPS M1330. I dual boot Windows 7 Beta and OS X 10.5.6 with no problems. Got 4 GB of RAM, and both OS fly. I've installed Ubuntu on it as well and everything works.

Only things that don't work in OS X are Ethernet, Card Reader, and you have to manually press the Power button for 5 seconds to power down. Other than that, it's great.

[niels_olson]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but what good is a laptop to a .NET developer if it doesn't have ethernet? Do you mean the wired card doesn't work, but wi-fi still works?

[alnayyir]

Which graphics chip?

[bprater]

I love my MBP 17" with 1900x resolution. It allows me to pack my screen full. It sounds like it isn't in your budget, but as a developer, you might think about screen real estate.

I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. Since I got this 17", I've used it 100% of the time, 10+ hours a day.

[jamesbritt]

"I love my MBP 17" with 1900x resolution ... I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. "

One of the things that pushed towards the Dell 830 and away from the MBP was that I was used to the 1920x1200 rez but liked getting that on a 15" screen. (That and a preference for a clit mouse.)

Bought it with the FreeDOS option, tossed on Kubuntu, and happily hacking away.

[alnayyir]

Eh, this needs to be a portable machine, and I fully expect to have an extra monitor available to plug into if I need the real estate for coding. I've simply never needed that much space while on the go. Can't say I'd mind the space, but it's not feasible with my budget.

If the Dell Studio 15's were compatible with leopard, I'd go with that because there's a 1900x1200 resolution upgrade that is VERY reasonably priced.

[matthall28]

Definitely go with a MacBook. Seems perfect for you

[alnayyir]

Thanks for the suggestion, it's just financially painful compared to a natively compatible hackbook or other idea.

[anthony_barker]

Thinkpad T42p 14" with ubuntu 8.10 + 24" LCD with USB hub + keyboard + wireless logitech mouse, + 2 GB RAM

Laptops are like cars - they depreciate the most in the first year or two. Go for a corporate laptop just off the refresh cycle.

- IBM build quality - fast enough as a decent backup to a desktop - runs windows in vmware for testing, .net apps - Ubuntu just works - good size, weight - Costs approximately laptop: $350 + LCD $300

Alternately I bought my daughter an MSI Wind with Suse (switched to Ubuntu) and I find myself using it quite frequently. Very light, great build quality + great screen.(Also Mac Compatibility now with the Realtek 8187SE drivers).

[alnayyir]

Seriously considering a Thinkpad so that I can run BSD/Linux without hassle.

[CyberED]

I'm using two HP/Compaq Presarios, both with Ubuntu v8.10 and Mac4Lin. I was going to buy a Mac, but considering the price differential the Compaq's are a better deal. Ubuntu upgrades also come at the right price.

[alnayyir]

:\

I don't want Mac OS X because of the appearance. I want it because:

My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a second monitor, it will just work. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just work.

[streblo]

To echo what a lot of people are saying: It sounds like you really want a mac, so I'd say go ahead and swallow the cost and just get it.

Personal testimonial: I own a G4 Powerbook that I bought about 5 years ago, and a MacBook Pro that I acquired about three years ago. Both work really well, and their longevity has been more than worth the price tag. My Powerbook still runs Halo flawlessly on medium settings. Any time I've had a problem with either, I've gone to an apple store and they've fixed any and all problems I've had.

[alnayyir]

I have an ancient PowerMac G4 (500 MHz) that still works to this day. Too bad I can't get XCode to install properly. :(

[riobard]

Every passionate developer deserves an aluminum MacBook + an extremely big external screen with resolution at least 1920x1280.

No, don't go for the plastic refurbs, even it saves you some bucks. In the long run you'll be much much happier.

Dell 600m ... I used to live in the same dorm with a guy owning such a machine back in college. Things impressed me include:

- key caps kept falling out while typing

- hot enough to burn your hands in summer (turned out to be very useful in winter, though)

- extremely noisy fan

- battery recalled due to possibility to explode (Sony's fault, as I remember)

[pj]

I dind't read all ur long post, but the only rational choice is a mac book pro 15" do bootcamp if you want windows or need to flip over to test something. all doors are open with the macbook, why even consider anything else? you wouldnt run mac os on a HP.

look, mac is about the hardware. it's superior hardware. run whatever OS you want on top of it, the hardware is the best in the industry, there just isn't any comparison.

[alnayyir]

From the comments, it seems like that is what I'm gonna do, but I'll have to get a used one. I cannot afford a new one.