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Ask HN: Would you hire a dropout?

13 points| RonenA | 13 years ago | reply

Assume that they 1) Are fully qualified for the position, and 2) Dropped out to purse self-employment/self-education/work, not because they couldn't handle school

19 comments

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[+] se85|13 years ago|reply
Yes.

Then again, I'm biased.

A proven track record of being self motivated and being persistant with their goals are far more valuable traits in an individual than a piece of paper saying they went to some college or university for several years.

[+] niggler|13 years ago|reply
The first is hard to ascertain without a conversation, and it's very hard without a conversation to convince many people (myself included) that you didn't just drop out because you couldn't handle school.

I try to shun away from dropouts because school signals, more than anything else, an ability to slog through tedious tasks. And unfortunately, not everything you will do is glamorous.

[+] Skywing|13 years ago|reply
Based on your description, why wouldn't you? If those are your requirements, and a degree is not, then I don't see the problem.
[+] aleprok|13 years ago|reply
Really depends why they dropped out. Here in Finland I would not hire any drop outs, because money is not good reason to drop out because students like me get cash to live on our own while studying in upper secondary school, vocational school, universities until something like age of 28. If they can not handle graduating from the school, how the heck I can trust them to become better at the job and keep their interest even if it might become little bit boring.

The only reason I accept for dropping out of school is money problems, but even then I trust those people more who will work on the side of their studies.

[+] lscott3|13 years ago|reply
I've yet to be asked for any type of degree (I don't have one) for places I've been hired for, consulted at and/or interviewed for. I've also seen people highly decorated with degrees and certificates that can barely get an interview. I think it all depends on the person, their attitude, their ability to connect with people and willingness to learn from others.
[+] ankurcha|13 years ago|reply
Depends on the job requirements. For a R&D related or senior position, I might be a little on the edge. School is not just about the degree it has a lot to do with development of the core educational foundations.

Remember anyone can program, not everyone can find a solution.

[+] xiaoma|13 years ago|reply
Michael Faraday solved about as many difficult problems as any scientist in history and did it without a formal education. And in his time there were even more barrier to working class people joining academia than there are now.

Skills and an apprenticeship under the right mentor trump the piece of paper in terms of real world results. It's really tough for more conservative types to realize this until the researcher in question is so famous that they no longer have a chance of hiring them, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

[+] nileshbhojani|13 years ago|reply
Yes, given these assumptions. But that person needs to be better than the other candidates (not JUST qualified for the position). I would also like to understand what he/she did after dropping out of school.
[+] dllthomas|13 years ago|reply
A part of the problem is the difficulty in distinguishing people with 2 from those without 2 who simply claim it.

Any difficulty distinguishing people with and without 1 is more important, but is present regardless.

[+] FlyingAvatar|13 years ago|reply
As a "drop out" technical manager, I have hired about 50% with CS/CE degrees, 10% with non applicable degrees and 40% with no degree at all.
[+] davidandgoliath|13 years ago|reply
Drop-out from high school, or university/college? I'm part of the latter group & hire people from that pool frequently.
[+] slajax|13 years ago|reply
I would actually prefer to hire a drop out over someone with a degree.
[+] pmtarantino|13 years ago|reply
I would add a question: how many jobs ads are asking for a degree?
[+] dholowiski|13 years ago|reply
I am a dropout. So, yes I would hire someone like me.
[+] lifeguard|13 years ago|reply
You mean like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs?
[+] NickKampe|13 years ago|reply
Absolutely, hackers don't need degrees. In fact, we frown upon them.
[+] rprasad|13 years ago|reply
No, but my industry is license-based, and acquiring the license requires a degree and a very expensive test.

The problem for most jobs that "require" a degree is that a degree signifies a minimum knowledge base and experience with the subject matter (if not practical experience) of the position. The point at which work experience becomes more important than having a degree depends heavily on the position. Thus, for example, work experience will probably always be more important than a degree for something like design, but a degree may be more important for starting out in development (assuming that you do not already have work experience in the relevant areas).

Further: people in my industry tend to pursue a formal education, work, and/or self-education simultaneously (or at least two of these options). Any candidate who couldn't handle work and education simultaneously would simply not cut it, unless they opted for work because they could not afford to work and pursue an education at the same time.

[+] ucee054|13 years ago|reply
The degree is there to show that the candidate is qualified. One can't tell by mind-reading a candidate.

Unless the candidate was too poor to afford the school, or born in the 3rd world, or something like that, there's not much excuse for not having the piece of paper.

If you decide to hire the dropout, you are gambling on "this guy dropped out because he's the next John Carmack, not a loser". The odds are poor.

ADDENDUM: The degree acts as an arbitrary filter because you simply do not have the resources to exhaustively examine every candidate. you only take a closer look at the candidates that make it through the filter.