Tell HN: I didn't get a job due to a failed startup on my resume

[zubar]

My startup went down the pan due to lack of money (what's new?) I was always told the expereince you get from a failed startup is a good thing. Well, a certain large software company doesn't seem to think so. Apparently, "as an entrepeneur you are obviously a free spirit, not the kind of person that settles well in a normal job, we would never hire people with a failed startup on their resume".

Thanks HN. You lied to me about the true cost of a failed startup.

[philwelch]

Let me get this straight--you're bitter because you didn't get hired by a company that evidently doesn't even want you to have any ambition or initiative of your own? I would be relieved if I was in your position.

[sharkbrainguy]

  I would be relieved if I was in your position.

I don't think you know enough of his situation to say that. It might not be the best place in the world to work but I imagine after your startup runs out of money, you just want a paycheck.

[agotterer]

I don't agree with the hiring manager by any means. But some companies are looking for longevity from employees. There are still some "career employees" who work for a single company for 30 or 40 years. People who are entrepreneurial by nature usually don't stick around that long and are always trying to build something on their own. The company I work for often hires entrepreneurial type people, and we often lose them because they go off to do start ups. But from my prospective they are inspirational and do great work while they are there.

[vaksel]

I'm going to guess that it was due to how you behaved during your interview. If you are going for a corporate job, you need to pretty much crap all over your startup experience. You need to talk about how it just wasn't for you, and that you have no plans to ever do it again.

If you talk about how cool it was, and how you plan to do it again, they won't want to hire you, thinking you are just there for a few months until you go back to doing startups

[nostrademons]

When I interviewed, I said my startup was basically a great experience, I absolutely hoped to give it a go again in the future, but right now all ideas I had led through Google. That seemed to work for them, and it was basically the truth. No need to lie or misrepresent.

You definitely don't want to give the impression that you're just applying to pick up some quick cash before trying your next startup. But there's a lot of middle ground between that and "I never want to be an entrepreneur again, and will happily be your corporate bitch forever."

[donw]

This is probably the best advice here. Companies hate hiring -- it's a pain in the ass to find qualified people, not to mention a ton of paperwork, and the time required to get 'the new guy' up to speed. So, if Company X thinks you're just going to jump ship and do another startup after six months, there isn't any way in hell they're hire you.

So, the top-poster should ask himself what he wants: Does he want a few years of nine-to-five, or to be starting a company again in a few months?

If the answer is the former, then he needs to do exactly as vaksel said. Play up the aspects of startup life that will appeal to Company X: hard work, thinking on your feet, people skills, having to come up to speed quickly. Play down anything that makes it sound like you want to leave in less than a few years. Talk about how the uncertainty of income was nerve-wracking, how hard it was to always be on your own, how much you found you missed having co-workers, etc.

If you do want to leave in six months, don't lie to a recruiter -- look for contract jobs. You'll make more money in a shorter period of time, build up a bigger network, and avoid burning bridges.

[donaq]

If you talk about how cool it was, and how you plan to do it again, they won't want to hire you, thinking you are just there for a few months until you go back to doing startups

I don't think so. I did just that and I still got 3 offers out of 3 interviews. 2 of them were small companies (one of which I'm working at now), but the last was a corporate behemoth with the initials FX. It really depends on what the employer wants out of filling the position, I think.

[marketer]

Unlikely. I doubt that's the real reason -- it's just the excuse the recruiter told you.

You probably just had a bad interview. Either you're not completely qualified, or they didn't feel you were a good fit for the team. Maybe they didn't like some of your answers to the interview questions. Or, somebody else beat you out for the position.

Using careful wording you can spin any negative experience into something positive. I'd recommend doing that with your startup.

[zubar]

In my experience within the UK graduate market I find that recruiters for larger companies usually give very frank and honest reasons for not hiring you.

[edw519]

Thanks HN. You lied to me about the true cost of a failed startup.

This is either:

a. Bait. You got me.

b. A poor joke. Next time you may want to try <sarcasm> and </sarcasm>.

or

c. Your true feelings. You have a attitude problem. The large software company noticed too. Fix your stinkin' thinkin' and stop blaming others for your failure. I wonder if "lack of money" was the only cause of your startup's failure.

[zubar]

I don't see why you got downvoted for what I think is good adivce.

[fallentimes]

Sample size error.

[webwright]

+1 and to elaborate:

Seriously? With a sample size of 1, you are blaming hacker news for bad advice rather than blaming the hiring manager for having a rare/bizarre attitude?

[mzucker007]

I doubt that the recruiter who told you "we would never hire people with a failed startup on their resume" is actually speaking true company policy.

"Thanks HN. You lied to me about the true cost of a failed startup." Are you kidding? Surely, you aren't ready to blame those trying to help you for one bad encounter with a knucklehead recruiter with a bad attitude.

[comatose_kid]

They said this to you at an on-site interview? How did you make it that far if they had that attitude?

About your last comment: take responsibility for your actions.

[banned_man]

About your last comment: take responsibility for your actions.

The real question (which neither the OP nor I am qualified to answer) is whether a startup opens more doors than it closes, not whether it closes one particular door. Obviously, there are all kinds of people in the world with all sorts of stupid biases; there's someone out there who will decide not to hire you because you went to the same school as some intern he disliked.

[nostrademons]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. I'm one of the people who's been cheerleading the "Even if you fail, it looks good on a resume" approach.

Whenever you listen to any advice, you need to view it through the filter of Buchheit's Law: "Limited life experience + overgeneralization = advice". Lots of people post about their experiences here, but nobody's experience will completely fit with your own circumstances. So you've got to examine why it worked for them and determine if those same conditions apply to you. In my case, I was applying for a job at Google in Silicon Valley, not a big company in the UK. I had previous successful programming projects, though unfortunately nothing lucrative. And I had sharp basic CS skills and did well in the interview. I'm not sure how many of these apply to your own situation.

If they don't, you have two options:

1.) Make your situation look more like the people whose advice you've been reading.

2.) Seek out advice from people closer to your own situation.

It's really valuable that you've posted your own experience for others to learn from, but there's always a danger in generalizing too much.

[tptacek]

I've negged people for having a number of failed startups in their work history, without any intervening stable roles. I've never negged anyone for a single failed startup. So, be aware that a resume full of go-nowhere company attempts may not serve your career well.

I took time off the lifestyle and worked at an established (but small) software company for about 4 years after my last failure, and feel like I was better off for that choice.

[kcy]

This is a self-absorbed inflammatory post from someone who is clearly going through a difficult experience. I don't think he's a troll (though the account was created 2 hours ago), but I also doubt there's anything you can say to him in this thread to change his feelings.

[geoffw8]

All I keep thinking is "Blag it, surely?"

My thoughts:

- I wouldn't sell it as a failed start-up, you can put an honest story around anything

- "I didn't like start-up life, I thought the grass was greener, and it sure as hell isn't"

- "Yea, I agree, the product didn't work out, but I learned a lot of operational skills. Planning, hiring, firing etc."

- "One thing it definitely taught me was it all comes down to numbers and ROI."

etc etc etc

Disclaimer: My first job was with a start-up that I'm pretty sure is on its why down the pan. But I sure as hell don't share the same concerns. I'd argue that what I learned in a start-up has prepared me for my life more than any degree could.

[bayareaguy]

I doubt anyone lied to you zubar. At one former startup employer the founder hired me in part because some years earlier I was a co-founder of an unsuccessful company and at other established places I've been rejected for reasons similar to the one given to you.

Anything you do in your career has the potential to open or close some doors.

My suggestion is to be prepared to tailor things like cover letters and resumes appropriately for the position and be more selective in how you apply so as to maximize your chances. Unless you're very very good or lucky you're bound to have some kind of failure in your past. The important thing in this sort of interview situation is to be able to convince people you've learned the right lessons from the experience and are more valuable as a result.

[zaidf]

I had a similar reason cited by a company few years ago. My gut reaction was that of "seriously?". Then I came home, thought of their decision, and realized that indeed, I am not fit for the 9-5 do-as-we-say job I was applying for. I got rid of my bitterness and learned something about myself in the process!

[eterno]

Hiring is extremely random and for most part very hard to do fairly. Bet even if someone like bill gates or the google founders applied to some of the bigger companies - chances are they will get turned down from a few of them.

Though, I think there is almost zero correlation of landing a position and having done a startup. Also, in real terms failed/successfull startups dont really matter much because often there is a very fine line (often described as luck) between failed and successfull startups. You might have learned a lot more in a failed one than having lucked out in a succesfull one. (for eg. jobs might have been considered a lesser success when apple mostly did the mac compared to say the youtube guys. Even though we now know otherwise because of the ipod, the fact is that it was plain market conditions that led to youtube being a bigger hit than the Mac).

A friend of mine got turned down with one of the biggest private enterprise software firms in the US. They hired the best of the lot - stanford, mit etc. He went on to join a smaller firm, and then did a startup which is about to run a million in revenues this year. The private software firm has since lost its mojo and is laying off right left and center. The friend, who is now CEO, is hiring right left and center. The very people who thought he was unfit to join their 'ranks' would now be very happy to be on his payroll.

In any case the lesson is that treat a job as independent from doing a startup - it takes a different set of skills to land one and its not fair, so just try to find what is required to land a job and not assume it to mean anything more than that.

[yef]

You are in the UK? Perhaps, after collecting some more feedback from other companies, you should add your perspective to the prevailing wisdom here. It sounds like the Silicon Valley software culture may be a bit more accepting of startup experience than in the UK.

That said, it may be beneficial for you to think about how you are selling yourself and your experience.

[slance]

Happened to me, I ran my own small ventures for about 2 years out of university. They definitely didn't fail, but they didn't make me a millionaire either. I cashed out of one of them with $20,000+ so it wasn't the end of the world.

However, whilst being interviewed over the past month or two I've encountered people who've really disliked the fact that I'd moved around several small entrepreneurial projects and now wanted a job. Some people absolutely loved it, but some people were really quite sceptical and even critical. Just shows you that people can be stupid, you have to keep trying as many as it takes until someone understands your value and doesn't make some retarded judgement based on something that doesn't matter.

As a sidenote, I found that the CEOs and founders that interviewed me were very keen on the entrepreneurial aspect to my cv. The middle management and wage monkeys weren't at all.

[10ren]

as an entrepreneur you are obviously a free spirit, not the kind of person that settles well in a normal job

Thus does the domesticated assail the free.

[apinstein]

Companies are smart enough to know that when a potential employee has done a startup and liked it, they unlikely won't be happy in a corporate job.

When writing a resume, you need to be careful to tailor it for the reader. If you're applying to work at a place that values free-thinking and risk-taking, then leave it on there. If you're applying to work at a consulting company or less-inventive company, they will see it as a red flag.

No company wants to train someone for a job only to have them bail to do their own thing.

You can still talk about it to the latter type of company, but you have to spin it in a way that doesn't make them think you're a rogue and unlikely to be happy in a corporate environment.

Alan

[iheartrms]

Also note that you don't have to include that failed startup on your resume if you really feel it is hurting you.

[zubar]

So I should lie about what I've been doing for the past 2 years?

[mattmcknight]

Odd that you would even get that kind of feedback. If they really have that sort of rule, wouldn't they just toss your resume on the pile? Most large companies avoid giving specific reasons for rejecting you, as that information could contribute to legal risk. (e.g., "too much experience" = ageism)