Ask HN: which jobs are accessible to very introverted devs?

[antninja]

Whenever I get a job interview as a junior web developer, I am told that my technical competence is undeniable but I'm way too introverted to be hired, especially in web agencies.

Are there some other programming jobs in which being extroverted isn't a requirement? Or I should keep searching for the right company? I don't think I can change my personality.

[antitrust]

> I am told that my technical competence is undeniable but I'm way too introverted to be hired

My sympathy, because I can imagine this must be puzzling.

From experience, my analysis tree would go like this:

1. Is this a euphemism or excuse? Euphemisms can be used to cover up other meanings like "you look like a serial killer" or "bathe more." You might want to pursue those angles. Excuses can cover things like you wanting too much money, or being too strong in your opinions or knowledge. (Remember, the machine wants cogs, not governors.)

2. If you think it's actually what they mean, I'd look at the word as they're going to use it, which means "socially withdrawn" and not its actual meaning. Then I'd check these:

(a) Does my appearance scream "socialization difficulty"? Did I wear a monk's habit to the job interview, or talk about 1980s classic videogames too much?

(b) Does my behavior scream "socialization difficulty"? If so, I'd approach this as you would any other technical problem. Find some "normals" to observe and pretend you're James Bond, super spy, and imitate them. You must infiltrate the hive and shut off the reactor.

3. If none of the above are checked: something else is making them nervous. Talk to a recruiter, psychologist or other and have them observe you. Also, make sure no parts of your life or resume scream "serial killer" or "probably molests goats."

4. If that's not the case, think about where you're applying. The machine loves cogs -- I said that already -- but sometimes, silly people in charge of silly companies want cheerful happy cheerleader types who will socialize a lot, get really excited over foosball, etc. They like these because they're tractable and easily manipulated. These silly companies tend to be tech sweatshops that assess you based on the amount of code you grind, not how good it is. Do you want to work there anyway? If you do, you're going to have to play Halloween dress-up and imitate what they want.

I will never support bias against introverted people just so that there can be the illusion (sorry, I mean "appearance") of a happy enthusiastic go-get-'em workplace. That's just silly. But if your appearance or behavior makes other people nervous, and they're not nitwits, you might consider adopting a little bit of a charade so you can work with these people.

[antninja]

I look good but I speak too softly and I don't know how to improvise in conversations. So for a one-to-one technical conversation I have no problem but for casual chats within a group, I just listen and get nervous if the attention is on me. It's due to a lack of experience in talking (and being talked to) combined to perfectionism. The problem is that I need a job soon, not after several years of trying to gain this experience.

I chose to learn programming thinking the job would just be me and a computer, referring to one boss, but there seems to be more meetings and customer interactions than I hoped. Other commenters said that more quiet programming jobs exist so I'll keep sending my resume to companies who build their own softwares instead of agencies. I'm just a bit despaired that no one wants to let me work.

In a more long-term way, I'm trying to create my own business (disrupt Facebook!). If I can't be the employee, I must become the employer.

[meric]

Introversion != Lack of social skills.

Keep talking and meeting new people, get better at socializing. Being introverted just means you prefer not to have to socialize some (or most) of the time, it doesn't mean you have to be bad at talking to people.

Being able to socialize is a skill, not a personality. How much you like to do it is what determines if you're extroverted or introverted.

[codenut]

I think you got it wrong. Introversion is not lacking of social skill. I am an introvert but I can communicate or socialize to strangers instantly if needed. But I always have the need to spend time with myself. Check this out.

http://www.quora.com/Introverts-and-Introversion-2/What-does...

[angdis]

Many people are introverted and do just fine in all kinds of jobs. "Introvert" is merely an orientation of personality that a large fraction (~50%) of the population has. Most likely the interviewer said you were "too introverted" as a polite way to say that something _else_ like demeanor or communication skill was lacking.

I don't know what your situation is, but you probably won't have success trying to find a job that fits your personality like a glove. There are too many factors and anyway the environment could change instantly the minute another new hire walks in.

[mathattack]

Why focus on agencies which put a premium on extroversion?

Most technical companies worth their salt are happy to have introverted developers doing the hard coding behind the scenes. In general you'll be better off at a software firm that markets to consumers, since there is less direct client interaction. (It's not that you won't be good at client interaction, it's that you have to convince someone)

Because of this, a place like Google or Facebook would be better than SAP or Oracle.

[wes-exp]

I second this. Join your kind. Another option could be academia.

[antninja]

Most of the job offers in Paris seem to come from agencies (for junior developers). I used to avoid sending resumes to agencies but now I'm trying to be less selective.

[scotty79]

Just pretend to be extrovert. Smile and look at people when they talk as if what they are saying was fantastic. Imagine the people you meet are your friends. Those of your friends that prefer to talk than to listen to you. It's all bit tiresome for introvert but most jobs are.

When they hire you as long as you do what you are told and respond when somebody asks you about something and listen to people, no one will know that you are introvert.

[mikevm]

By pretending to be something you aren't you risk of trying too hard and looking even creepier.

[ig1]

You probably can become less introverted with practice if it's something you want, it's hard but not impossible.

How introverted are you ? - web agencies and the like which require client interaction will tend to require more extroverted developers but if you're at a large company working on internal project it tends to be much less of an issue.

[johnward]

If you are introverted there is a good chance you won't want to deal with clients anyway. I know it is the most stressful and draining part of my days. I dread the next work day when I get home.

[helen842000]

Next time you interview address this head on. The jobs that are accessible are the jobs that you want to do.

Interviewers are mis-judging you and that's not fair. When they get to the section that says "how would your friends/colleagues describe you" use it as an example that puts their mind at rest.

Say "oh sure, people that don't know me well may think I'm introverted, however as they get to know me they'll see that I'm just naturally a good listener. That's the role I take in a group setting and I enjoy it. It's quite a rare skill, usually people are fighting to be heard. My friends would describe me as a deep thinker and while I maybe shy in a new environment, it only takes a little while for me to integrate and feel at home in a new team. I have deep interests in X & Y and these complement my skills in technology"

Hiring managers know people are nervous at interview stage, check the 'team player' box by mentioning clubs, friends or other hobbies.

If anyone here wants interview practice, improvised discussion, improved speaking register, removing the perception of introversion, I'd be happy to jump on a Skype call/chat to help. We can chat about web stuff, projects and hopefully in exchange I can fill in some gaps on my technical knowledge while we talk.

I know exactly what it's like. After I finished my CS degree I worked for a short while as an I.T recruiter to learn the industry from the other side and pick what field I should go into. I was on the hiring side of the table and I had to help people get past the nerves so they would do their best. It drained me to be in a job that involved talking all day but long term it really improved how I express myself and how I respond during interviews.

If anyone wants to chat my email is my username at gmail dot com.

[zng]

I'm quite the introverted person as well, but I keep reminding myself to develop that part.

I don't know you at all, but I bet it will be fine... Just keep trying and see how you can improve and represent yourself! :)

[jaz]

I work at a medium sized web agency (~60 employees) as a developer and consider myself introverted. For the first year I worked in a client facing role, which exhausted me - long hours, a lot of social interaction. It wore me down almost to the point of burnout. I then made a lateral move to a non client facing team which greatly improved my quality of life here. So there may be hope for you at a larger company that has non client facing roles - but you may need to work yourself up the ladder to get into them.

You can't change your underlying personality, but you can work on being more social. It's definitely not easy (at least not for me) - when in social situations during the workday, my internal monologue is usually saying "I'd rather be coding." It takes time and practice, but it's achievable. I've been working at being more social and have seen some success.

[greenyoda]

This isn't directly related to your question about jobs, but Susan Cain (an introvert herself) has some interesting insights into how introverts fit in to a culture that's biased toward extroverts.

Here's her TED talk from 2012 (19 min.):

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts....

If you like that, you might enjoy her book on introverts:

http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/d...

[_random_]

Keep searching and applying. Frankly speaking interview is a quite structured experience, so you can learn the rules. Also you will be able to become more extroverted over the time. You are lucky because it's just about only modern profession that allows you to be both introverted and relatively successfull. I would bet that John Carmack and Mark Zuckerberg are quite introverted, it's just that they had a lot of practice and people wanted to hear them regardless.

[anywherenotes]

I would expect in software companies being extrovert isn't a requirement. It's not a requirement were I work.

Developers don't deal with customers directly, we got support and to lesser degree management doing that. So I don't see why being an introvert would be bad.

I guess in a web-agency you will work directly with customers, so it makes sense to hire people who are better at dealing with people (Office Space flashback).

[ghostdiver]

As an employer I would be interested primarly about productivity, HOWEVER being introvertive does not help in team work. So it is something you have to work on.